User talk:Ariobarza/Archive 1

Yay
Yay, what, okay!

June 25 2008
This is the only warning you will receive. Your recent vandalism will not be tolerated. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

June 25 2008
Your recent contribution to your talk page has been reverted or removed. Although this is your talk page, making unconstructive edits are considered vandalism and will be reverted. If you continue, this talk page may be protected from editing. Thank you.

how to create an article
search for the article and if there is no positive result the option to create such an article appears. Wandalstouring (talk) 08:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC) Wandal delete or change title of article to Siege of Sardis (547 BC), thanks! Cus I want to make it myself I don't know how to change main title if you can tell me.

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 11:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: I Need Help
Salam bro. I don't think it's necessary to change the title yet unless there are other Wikipedia articles which are also called Siege of Sardis. We should only change the title after someone creates articles for the other sieges of Sardis as well. Regards, your brother from another mother, Jagged 85 (talk) 11:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome!
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Aryobarzan
Noticed your name, there should be an article on this person. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks, I didn't make the connection. :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 22:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You can't really delete articles, unless they are spoofs or attack pieces. The best you can do is to redirect them somewhere. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 22:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Siege of Doriskos
A tag has been placed on Siege of Doriskos requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. scetoaux (talk) (My contributions.) 03:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! I noticed that you recently added a hangon template to an article. In order for an administrator to evaluate whether the article should be speedy deleted or not, we request that you provide a reasoning of why it should remain on the article's talk page. scetoaux (talk) (My contributions.) 03:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Siege of Gordium
A tag has been placed on Siege of Gordium, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Eóin (talk) 04:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

WAIT!
I have new info regarding this article and will place it there either today or tommorow so please do not delete it cuz its a part of history and it has happened which makes it worth having, so it will not be forgotten by time!--Ariobarza (talk) 03:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk
 * Please place this rationale on the talk page of the article, not here. :) scetoaux (talk) (My contributions.) 03:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Little context in Siege of Byzantium (478 BC)
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Siege of Byzantium (478 BC), by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Siege of Byzantium (478 BC) is very short providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Siege of Byzantium (478 BC), please affix the template to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that '''this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here''' CSDWarnBot (talk) 04:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

as the reviewing administrator
I removed the speedy tags on all of these, ad added an underconstruction tag. (Speedy tags should not be placed immediately after the article is started, but time should be allowed for writing it, per WP:CSD.). However, I strongly advise that you get some content into these articles as soon as possible, preferably today including references from one good book on the subject. -- You might also want to add the appropriate link to Herodotus, and to some general articles in WP. The way it goes here, you would have been safer writing them off-wiki to start with. it is not supposed to be that way, but that's the practical reality of it. DGG (talk) 04:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Mylasa
A tag has been placed on Battle of Mylasa, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.  brew crewer  (yada, yada) 05:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Pedasa
A tag has been placed on Battle of Pedasa, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template   to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.  brew crewer  (yada, yada) 05:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

for the ones that i didnt catch
the best thing is simply to re-create them with a line or two of actual content. I could undelete them, but its more complicated, because I'm supposed to first ask the different admins who inadvertently deleted them. Just do them again, and ask me if there are any problems, DGG (talk) 05:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there any reason...

 * ...why you can't simply wait to post an article until you actually have an article to post? JuJube (talk) 07:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not create your own sandbox, and work on your new articles there. When ready, you can the copy & paste into the new article. If you need help creating your sandbox let me know. Mjroots (talk) 07:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've nominated these articles for speedy deletion again, please feel free to recreate them when you have some content to add. --Closedmouth (talk) 13:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

further advice
I suggest that you see such articles as Battle of the Granicus for an indication of the information that is expected in these articles, including the use of more detail, more background, and the use of more advanced academic sources, with a reference to all the appropriate ancient authors. A good modern textbook of ancient history would be a useful start. The place to ask for help and suggestions is WikiProject Military history/Classical warfare task force; As for the box, they can help you there better than I can.DGG (talk) 15:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Read this before editing!!!!
Here are the wikipedia guidelines. Please read them before you do mess up with your edits. Thank you.


 * How to edit a page
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And sign your comments with these four signs: ~

Wandalstouring (talk) 16:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

templates
Thats a part of the WP I do not know. Ask at the project or at WP:HD. DGG (talk) 01:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Siege of Sardis (546 BC)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Siege of Sardis (546 BC), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: Siege of Sardis. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 12:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

February 2008
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Nabudis Shadow (talk) 03:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop!
Don't do cut and paste moves, you're losing the edit history! Use the "move this page" link. Please stop moving articles now and do them the correct way. And undo the ones you've just done. Corvus cornix talk  03:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

By doing a cut and paste move, you lose the article's edit history. The new article you create only has you as the person who made every edit to the article. That's a violation of the GFDL license, which is the license that Wikipedia uses, because every person's edit must be retained. It's a copyright violation. You must use "move this page", which keeps the edit history. Corvus cornix talk  04:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The "move" tab is at the top of the page. But now that both articles have history, you can't do a move. You'll have to go to WP:RFPM. Corvus cornix talk  04:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Siege of Tyre
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Corvus cornix talk  05:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Pelusium
Thanks! I am also looking forward to create some more pages about ancient battles of the Near East, to make many interesting facts present in Wikipedia. Thank you for adding the number of dead by Ctesiass (whether they are wrong or not). Cheers! Egyptzo (talk) 20:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

About those points
Hello, Ariobarza! You must be new to Wikipedia, so welcome! Your watchlist shows the most recent changes made articles you are watching. The green plus number tells how many characters (letters and symbols) were added by that edit; a red minus number shows how many characters were removed by that edit. It’s just for information, not an “award” of points. Askari Mark (Talk) 04:45, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Hydaspes
It may well be that idiom differs; it may also be that Battle of the Hydaspes River is ill-titled. My memory of the late campaigns is less clear, so I do not recall which. In either case, one article does not justify another; see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS (which is about deletion discussions, but the same principle applies). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)
The February 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Siege of Ectabana
A tag has been placed on Siege of Ectabana requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 04:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Tyre
It may be that if decent articles are ever written on Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Tyre and the crusader siege, we will want to move this article; but until it is both demonstrated that such separate articles are necessary and that they are as commonly discussed as Alexander's, why? See WP:PRIMARYUSAGE for the standard we apply. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're right, others will agree with you (and you may be). That's why posting to WP:RM is required. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

starting a controversy?
I was doing research, and found the Wikipedia article to be lacking in the information I was looking for, so I started a comment on the talk page. How is this "starting a controversy"? 70.20.149.174 (talk) 05:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Battle of the Median Border
A tag has been placed on Battle of the Median Border requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. On the  other side  Contribs 01:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Cyrus
Hi Ariobarza. I have some points: 1- "So I just want to say that Cyrus' campgain box that I created is based of a combination of Hero,Ctes, and Nicols works." This is problematic, since they are primary sources, but in Wikipedia you can only use secondary sources, that is, academic publications; see. 2- "The article of Cyrus only has Herodotus' version of events" The modern scholarly consensus regards Herodotus as very unreliable, but more reliable than Ctesias. Right or wrong, this is the reason why Herodotus version should have more space in the article than Ctesias' one. But of course it would be great if we had Ctesias version too. 3- "Atradates was a nickname of Cambyses I, it's not another person, and therefore I think it now should be included in Cambyses I article, don't worry I won't put it back in Cyrus's article." Feel free to add it, but remember that you have to reference it with an academic publication. 4- "Second, Baselius or something, I may have spelled it wrong, like you said only applies to Greek rulers right, but in tradition Croessus was a Greek, and even if the tradition is wrong, Asia Minor which is half of The Lydian Empire was composed of Asian Greeks! Lydians are Greeks" No, you are wrong. Lydians were not Greeks. They were non Greek Anatolian peoples who spoke a non Greek Anatolian language and that were regarded as foreigners by the Greeks. So, the title basileus doesn't apply to them. 5- "And the Medes had a Empire with a Emperor, some books today call Astyages Emperor of the Medes, ask me to look for it, and I'll prove it to you." I know it, but other books and articles argue that the Median 'Empire' was not such thing; that is, the imperial status of Media is desputed among scholars. So I'd prefer to use 'king' instead, as all agree that there was a king (= monarch = sole ruler) in Media. Regards, Amizzoni (talk) 04:15, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but at this moment I'm unable to read your comments with the attention they deserve, so I'd prefer not to answer for the moment. In fact I have little time to spend in Wikipedia. I hope you can understand. Bets regards, Amizzoni (talk) 19:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXV (March 2008)
The March 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)
The April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Request to move article Battle of the Eurymedon River incomplete
You recently filed a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves to move the page Battle of the Eurymedon River to a different title - however your proposal is either incomplete or has been contested as being controversial. As a result, it has been moved to the incomplete and contested proposals section. Requests that remain incomplete after five days will be removed.

Please make sure you have completed all three of the following:


 * 1) Added    at the top of the talk page of the page you want moved, replacing "NewName" with the new name for the article.  This creates the required template for you there.
 * 2) Added  NewName  to the bottom of the talk page of the page you want to be moved, to automatically create a discussion section there.
 * 3) Added  PageName  to the top of today's section here.

If you need any further guidance, please leave a message at Wikipedia talk:Requested moves or contact me on my talk page. - JPG-GR (talk) 04:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Media
A tag has been placed on Battle of Media, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add  on the top of Battle of Media and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. --Ariobarza (talk) 05:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)
The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Cyrus' titles
I replied in the talk page of Cyrus the Great. If you have any comment, please leave it there and not in my talk page, as the discussion is about the article. Best regards, Amizzoni (talk) 03:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, adding content without citing a reliable source is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you are familiar with Citing sources, please take this opportunity to add references to the article. Nyttend (talk) 13:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Please do not add content without citing reliable sources. Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. If you are familiar with Citing sources please take this opportunity to add references to the article. Contact me if you need assistance adding references. Nyttend (talk) 04:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Please do not add unsourced or original content. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Nyttend (talk) 04:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

June 2008
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, adding content without citing a reliable source is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you are familiar with Citing sources, please take this opportunity to add references to the article. ''No sources provided showing Cyrus ever used the title you gave him. I know you mean well, but what he was called long after his death or your opinion of what he might have or should have been called are not appropriate here.'' Doug Weller (talk) 13:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Persian Revolt cribbed from Rawlinson and self-assessed as B class
I hope very much that this is simply because you didn't understand what is expected of a Wikipedia article. You plagiarised this from a 150 year old article without even acknowledging that you did. Luckily it wasn't copyvio, which can get you a temporary block. Not only do I strongly suspect its accuracy has been overturned by 150 years of research, it has clear nonsense in it like "Persian branch of the Aryan people". Copying stuff like this brings Wikipedia into disrepute, which I am sure you don't want to do. You then self-assessed it (not a good idea) as a Class B article for the Military History Wiki project, whose criteria are: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met

Structure: criterion met

Grammar: criterion met

Supporting materials: criterion met

I'll agree that it had structure, but the English was archaic, and how could you possibly claim it met the criterion for referencing and citation when it had absolutely no references or citations? This again makes Wikipedia look silly.

I've stubified it -- reduced it to the lead (which I suspect needs work), and notified the Lead Co-ordinator of the Military History project, who wasn't happy.

I think this could be a good article if you want to make it one, and I think you have the ability to do so if you carefully follow Wikipedia guidelines and polices and rely only on reliable verifiable sources. In this field, there should be plenty of them. What I strongly suggest is that you concentrate on only the articles you have created right now and improve them, and please don't create any new articles right now until you fix the ones with only one or two sentences and no references that you created. Doug Weller (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Siege of Pasargadae Hill
I can't find any references to this one either, can you provide any mentions of this siege from reliable sources? Thanks. --Doug Weller (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Siege of Ecbatana
I have nominated Siege of Ecbatana, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Siege of Ecbatana. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Doug Weller (talk) 10:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi -- this isn't a speedy deletion at all, it's the normal deletion process -- not a vote, editors putting forward policy and guideline related arguments. It isn't personal, I've put a non-existent Egyptian capital up for deletion as well, see.
 * And thanks for your edit on my talk page. I think you've just run ahead of yourself. I know what it's like, I plan to do things and then don't get around to them because I'm too busy.
 * I think you've got some articles on sieges where I simply can't find mention of such a siege, eg the one above, Siege of Pasargadae Hill. And was Gordium definitely a siege? --Doug Weller (talk) 08:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Your post on my talk page reproduced here, sources, battles
Hi again, thanks for your message, actually there is a fine book on ancient history that is on google books, and is based on the fragments of Nicolas of Damascus. First thing, Herodotus, though one of the best ancient historians, was a commener, and compared to Ctesias of Cnidas was a nobody. Ctesias as I think you might know, if you read my older comments on Cyrus' talk page was a personal physician to Artaxerxes. And Xenophon and Herodotus say that to know of Cyrus' less popular battles, the reader should read his. Ctesias had access to the official persian archives, that later historians of rome say that persians were good at keeping records like the babylonians. Anyways, if you read Ctesias persica his numbers and stories are a lot more REALISTIC in todays standards than Herodotus tales of large gold digging ants in India, and griffons in Scythia. Too bad only fragments remain, these reminders bring tears to historians knowing that we know only 10% of history! He wrote his Persica first then Phiotus and Nicolas copied and translated them in the Roman times. His Persica was written at the same time as Herodotus' Histories, so both are as valuable as each other. And Ctesias gives details to battles of Cyrus that Herodotus mentions Ctesias in his histories as the one to look to for Cyrus' other battles. Herodotus works were also translated and both accuse each other of pushing the truth or maybe copying wrong. But, even the death of cyrus is a combanation of Ctesias last versian of his fight and a fight with another Scythian tribe that he fought earlier, the similarities are astounding. SO, to know the truth and to cite, one must compare all sources. I am free to discuss two days from now, but please dont do anything JUST yet. So, for Gordium im not sure it was a siege, and again half of Alexanders titles there is only spoken evidence hundreds of years after his death. THE NEXT LINES ARE FOR EXPLANATIONS TO YOU, AND THEY ARE FROM WHAT I KNOW THAT I WILL CITE LATER, SO YOU KNOW NOW.

For battle of the median border, Nicolas says it was fought on the median-persian border on the mostly the median side, he mentions more than 20,000+? persians+even more persians, against the 20,000 gaurd of Astyages+100,000 other soldiers. ITs interesting as he explains and im not sure but he mentions they all rode around, RODE MEANS ON HORSES AND CHARIOTS thats why i included chariots, and in persian revolt originally there was 50,000 persian cavalry and 200,000 median cavalry that is why i put 120,000-200,000 median cavalry and just 50,000 for the persians as they chased each other around the town, So heavy casualties that Cyrus put and WON the first day, which is a TACTICAL VICTORY for the persians. And median STRATEGIC VICTORY for the medes that one on getting the area the second day, but it was not a total victory for the medes because they abandoned the area and still chased Cyrus, and Cambyses I got wounded and died after the battle!

For siege of pasargadae hill Ctesias through Nicolas says(and im only telling you this so you know for now, but later will cite verifiable sources when I have time 2 days to 2 weeks) so he says the persians were besieged (read the persian revolt, WHICH I WAS GOING TO CITE EACH SENTENCE BEFORE YOUR MAJOR EDIT TO IT) on a hill by a defile, and the hill was in junction of pasargadae, but DOES NOT SAY THE EXACT LOCATION WHICH ALSO BOTHERS ME AND FORCES ME JUST TO PUT PASARGADAE HILL. 100,000 medians go up against 10,000 persians, and are heavily killed as huge boulders of rock are hurled on them, and medians lose.

WHO KNOWS BUT IF THE MEDIAN ARMY WAS LARGE ENOUGH, WHICH IT WAS, IT COULD HAVE GOTTEN REPLENISHED IN EACH BATTLE! Next, the battle of pasargadae, he says 100,000 medians finally reach the hill, and a battle begins with 50,000 other median COMMONER MEN stationed to kill any medes that refuse to KEEP scaling the hill to defeat the persians, persians when mothers and children cry in shame, in desperation and courage, the persians drive the medes down the hill and slew 60,000 of them!(I KNOW IT ALMOST SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN A HUGE LONG BATTLE, THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS WHICH I WILL VERIFY SOON).

In herodotus its two battles that harpagus joins the persians in the first one, which i also included that is the only difference between the two accounts. Then Nicolas hints that a fifth battle occurs that Astyages is totally defeated, and handed over to the persians, and that is the Battle of the Pasargaedae Plain. because i thought they fought in a huge plain that STILL sorounds the pasargadae area in Fars or Pars province of Iran. For the dates I equally divide them up, and based on the babylonian tablet Cyrus revolts in summer of 553 BC and his first battle of campgain season is 552 BC and last battle is in 550 BC. So that is why I divided the dates. Siege of Ecbatana is said by Ctesias as Cyrus captures it by force and killS Amytis' husband Spitamas and others for hiding Astyages, so it was a tiny siege or a raid!

Mostly in two days time I will happily discuss any thing that we have to discuss and I MIGHT ask you some citing questions. Anyways thank you for reading such a long ass reply, and now that im getting to be less in a hurry. We can now start on the right foot, and act as gentlemen(talking about myself here). Im in my 20s and have lots of books on persia and other ancient and modern mysteries, and sciences and the arts. I like to play sports to that is why i barely get time to do anything on my sis computer because mines they are fixing still. I like to solve mysteries that is why i just want to get it over with. SO know you have a better picture of me and my interests here that I like contributing to Wikipedia! Thank you! Best of luck to you, and goodbye, for now!--Ariobarza (talk) 11:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * I'm probably busy most of the weekend. It's great you like to solve mysteries, but don't forget that on Wikipedia editor's don't add their opinions or solutions, they just report what other people say. And they don't put things together from different sources to make an argument. Read WP:SYN. So although a battle may have been on a plain, if sources don't say that, we can't. If sources don't say it was a long battle, all we can do is report what they say. With dates, you can say 531-530 BCE, circa 531, etc, but if you don't know for sure what year it was, then it's best not to put down a particular year.


 * Ecbatana could have just been a case of a strong army entering an undefended city or one that surrendered immediately. So it shouldn't be called a siege. And as you say, we don't know that Gordium was a siege.


 * But I think that a real problem is breaking down a series of events into individual events about which we know really very little. It's hard to see the big picture if you do that, and each article can really be no more than a stub because we may only have a couple of lines of text to go on. And you may end up having to leave out interesting things that happened at the time in that place because they aren't part of the battle.


 * As for Persian Revolt, although citations are required, it really needs writing from scratch, section by section. Do you know how to set up a sandbox to write an article in? That's what I did for the article I wrote. I can help, I could even do a section or so. Start with a structure and built that. Can we keep the discussion here or else, maybe better yet, on the talk pages of each article? That way others can see them and might join in to help.Doug Weller (talk) 12:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:Campaignbox Wars of Cyrus the Great
Please look at my comments on the above page. Peterkingiron (talk) 10:15, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

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Ecbatana and related subjects
AFD discussions are not strictly "votes", in that the number of people on one side or the other is not decisive. I would like to see you being able to produce some good articles. I understand your frustration. I think your probelm is that you are creating very short articles about things where little is known, and that you like incorporating information into templates, rather than providing text. Templates are largely a navigation mechanism, rather than content. The "Siege of Ecbatana" had no text at all (only a template), so that deletion was almost inevitable. You will find that after the deletion I repaired the template, so that it now directs to Ecbatana. As so little is (I think) known, there is probably no need ever to have a separate article on the siege, as whateever is known about it can satisfactirily be included in the article on the city.

I am sure that you have sources, but you need to cite them; otherwise people will suspect that you are inventing it (knwon as WP:OR. Several refernecing systems are used within WP, including footnotes using and then the "Reflist" template near the end.  Articles with references are much less likely to be deleted, but are still liable to be merged.  I would suggest that you look for an article with footnotes (and open it for editing) to see how this is done.  If you have started an article and not finished it put the template "Underconstruction" (in curly brackets) to warn other people that it is still incomplete.  Alternatively, "inuse".

When I first began editing WP, I had to be pointed in the right direction by an admin (I am not one). My problem was that some one had put up an account of how the River Teme was navigable when there is no evidence for this. I put up a rival text, and the admin deleted both. Only when I had published my version elsewhere was I able to add it to the WP article. Ultimately, I defended my position by providing refenences to reliable sources, which the proponents of the rival view could not. All this happened a couple of years ago, when WP was full of such trash. The standards tend to be higher now.

Peterkingiron (talk) 18:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Duncker
I need to see the quotes from Duncker, how are you reading him? Thanks. Doug Weller (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They are the only thing that might show you aren't doing OR so far as I can see.
 * Please reply on article talk page. Thanks.--Doug Weller (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I wasn't clear about what I meant. In the motivation section (ignore the song) you use Duncker. It needs quotes from Duncker using some form of the word motive. I'll enlarge upon this on the article's talk page (where I'm transferring your long edits from mine, let's keep them on the talk page and just use each other's pages for short notes, so others can see the discussion). Thanks. Doug Weller (talk) 06:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

My watch list
Hi- I watch every article I edit, so the discussion can stay on the article talk pages. Thanks. Doug Weller (talk) 10:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Assessment requests
Hi, you asked what to do to get this assessed, put a request here. Doug Weller (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Improving battle of Hyrba
Expand the introduction and add more info the troop types used by the Medians and Persians. Afterwards nominate it for GA or a peer review. Wandalstouring (talk) 10:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I told you to nominate it for peer review or GA review, not B-class review for the third time. I will delete your entry on the B-class review. All further requests for this article on the B-class review page won't be processed. Follow the links to the appropriate places for nomination. Wandalstouring (talk) 18:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * At present it's mentioned some information about the historiography. But I think it's better to make separate section for historiography and move that information to the boy. Furthermore that sentences have no source neither in lead nor in body.-- Seyyed(t-c) 02:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't have to add reference to lead, but I suggest to make a separate section in the body for historiography of the battle and move Though the only authority on the intricate account of the battle was Nicolaus of Damascus, other well known historians as Herodotus, Ctesias, and Strabo are known to mention the battle in their own accounts to and provide a source for it. -- Seyyed(t-c) 03:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

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Notes to myself
*Permenantly delete Siege of Ecbatana.

*Cyrus marched from Ecbatana and made war on the Bactrian's, obtaining a Tactically indecisive; Strategic Persian victory. But when the Bactrian’s learned that Astyages had been adopted by Cyrus as his grandfather, and Amytis of Media as his supposed aunt turned wife, which they had no children together. They voluntarily submitted to Cyrus officially.

*Cyrus, after Bactria, made war on the Saka, and in the first battle or? first phase of battle took prisoner their king Amorges, the husband of Sparethra, who after her husband was captured collected an army of 300,000 men and 200,000 women, made war upon Cyrus, which his army had minimal casualties as compared to the light casualties of the Saka, and may have defeated him. Amongst the large number of prisoners taken by the Saka were Parmises, the brother of Amytis, and his three sons, who were subsequently released in exchange for Amorges. Cyrus's well treatment of Amorges prompt the Saka to immediately submit to the Persians at the time of the battle, which is recognized as a Tactical Amyrgian victory; Strategic Persian victory. Amorges and or Thambradas went with Cyrus to Lydia. It must be noted though, Herodotus’ version of Cyrus's death may be the plagiarized version of this account by Ctesias, this is also possible, as its known both lived around the same time, and the stories eerily match each other on close inspection. Another point arises from the fact that both historians mention each other in their own accounts. *Cyrus succeeded in a battle in the capital of Arachosia, or which is todays Kandahar/ either that or in the Helmand region, must research this. *Cyrus penetrated Gedrosia from Pasargadae, his main capital, in 545 BC/535 BC? With maybe 250,000 to 500,000 men. And half were likely civilians with the army. And, 3/4 were lost, or perished in the desert. This is when Kapisa in 543 BC/533 BC might have been besieged. Cyrus may have taken another route when reaching Pura, the capital of the province with his companion cavalry numbering about ten, which only seven survived, just like Alexander the Great had, this may have also been the reason the army and or civilians were lost or perished. Cyrus has to give up campaign due to high loses of life and pleading army before any battle is fought, and return home through a northern route for 533 BC, and if the expedition took place in 543 BC as said on livius.org, might have built ships and sent ambassadors to Taxila in India, which he sailed home through the Indus, and down to the Arabian Sea, and thus reaching the Persian Gulf. Then through that conquering Maka and Dilmuna and coming finally home by reaching the Hormuz canal. *Cyrus may have been in the north and gone to his final battle or may have started fresh from home, cuneiform evidence from Babylon suggests they started fresh from Ecbatana. Cyrus marched against the Derbices or Derbicans, whose king was Amoraeus, and was assisted with Dahae archers, and Massagatae cavalry. They were part of a Southeastern Scythian Confederation who hired Indian mercenary troops that were against Cyrus, so they would make raids or finally invade Persia. The Massagetae were then governed by a queen who was a widow and who's name was Tomyris, Cyrus sent ambassadors to her with overtures of marriage the queen. Concluding that his real object was the possession not of her, but her kingdom. She forbade his approach, Cyrus on finding these measures ineffectual advanced to the Jaxartes openly discovering his hostile designs upon the Massagetae. He then threw a bridge of boats over the river for the passage of his forces which he also fortified with turrets Whilst he was engaged in this difficult undertaking, Tomyris sent her ambassadors with a message. Cyrus called a council of his principal officers and laying the matter before them desired their advice how to act. They were unanimously of opinion that he should retire and wait for Tomyris in his own dominions, Croesus who assisted at the meeting was of a different sentiment which he defended, and that was to fight on the Scythian side of the river, and to leave the weakest in the camp with Persian delicacies therefore be left behind and that there be abundance of food prepared at costly viands and flowing goblets of wine. Then with the rest again retire towards the river, and wait to ambush them. The result of the debate was that Cyrus preferred the sentiments of Croesus, which he therefore returned for answer to Tomyris that he would advance the space into her dominions, which she had proposed she was faithful to her engagement. Cyrus sent Cambyses and Croesus home, and maybe Arsames was there too. Then at night had a dream that the eldest son of Hystaspes having wings upon his shoulders one of which overshadowed Asia the other Europe, Hystaspes was the son of Arsames of Persia the family of the Achaemenidae the name of his eldest son was Darius a youth of about twenty. He sent for Hystaspes to his presence and dismissing his attendants Hystaspes said he will study his son if he should try to take the throne, then he went home. Cyrus advancing a day's march from the Jaxartes followed in all respects the counsel of Croesus and leaving behind him the troops upon which he had less dependence he returned with his choicest men towards the river. A detachment of about the third part of the army of the Massagatae attacked the Persians whom Cyrus had left and after a feeble conflict put them to the sword. When the slaughter ceased they observed the luxuries which had artfully been prepared and yielding to the allurement they indulged themselves in feasting and wine till drunkenness and sleep overcame them. In this situation the Persians attacked them, several were slain but the greater part or 2/3 of them were made prisoners, among who was Spargapises their leader that was the son of Tomyris, which the battle became a Persian victory. As soon as the queen heard of the defeat of her forces and the capture of her son she dispatched a messenger to Cyrus with a warning to let him go. Her son committed suicide upon being released out of his chains for comfort. When Tomyris found out her son was dead, she collected all her forces and attacked. They both showered each other with arrows, then the Derbices infantry were engaged, and the Massagatae led their cavalry to make shock attacks. Finally the battle became the most brutal in the ancient world, as looking like there was no end to it, the Scythians got the upper hand, the Derbices suddenly brought up some elephants which had been kept in ambush, and put Cyrus' cavalry to flight. Cyrus himself fell from his horse, and an Indian wounded him mortally with a javelin under the thigh and or the liver. The Indians fought on the side of the Derbices and supplied them with elephants. Cyrus's friends took him up while he was still alive and returned to camp. Many Persians and Derbices were slain, to the number of 10,000 on each side. The Persians managed to stay in the area for allies to arrive. And may have witnessed Tomyris trying to behead and then crucify a Cyrus impersonator, which the account was told to Herodotus, and the Persians had heavy casualties, with the Massagatae had light. So the battle became a Tactically inconclusive; Strategic Persian victory. Amorges, when he heard of what had happened to Cyrus, in great haste went to the assistance of the Persians with 20,000 Sakan cavalry. In a subsequent engagement, the Persians and Saka gained a brilliant Decisive Persian victory, Amoraeus, the king of the Derbices, and his two sons being slain. 30,000 Derbicans and 9,000 Persians fell in the battle. The Massagatae fled as their revenge was supposedly finished. And the Dahae, seeing they were not required to fight anymore retired to there own country, which the Indians also dispersed. The Derbices then submitted to Cyrus. Cyrus, when near his death in the capital of the province, not the Persis province, declared his elder son Cambyses, king. Cyrus's younger son Smerdis governor of Bactria, Chorasmia, Parthia, and Carmania, free from tribute, but still under Persian control. Of the children of Spitamas, he appointed Spitaces satrap of the Derbices, Megabernes of the Paricanians, bidding them obey their mother in everything. He also endeavored to make them friends with Amorges, bestowing his blessing on those who should remain on friendly terms with one another, and a curse upon those who first did wrong. (THIS LAST SENTENCE MAY CONTAIN AN IMPORTANT CLUE TO WHY THE LAST WAR AGAINST THE SCYTHIANS BEGAN IN THE FIRST PLACE). With these words, he died in a state of glory, three days after he had been wounded, after a reign of 30 years.--Ariobarza (talk) 07:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Articles for deletion/Battle of the Median Border
Can you please explain what you're doing with Articles for deletion/Battle of the Median Border? Corvus cornix talk  05:26, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

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Hyrba
Sorry, couldn't make sense of this sentence: " For the first time he had gone to his parents, through Herodotus' version, the Median general, Harpagus had secretly sent a letter stuffed in a hare to Cyrus to plot a revolt, and Cyrus passed the letter unto his father". Doug Weller (talk) 19:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

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Thermopylae
Please respond to my post at Talk:Battle_of_Thermopylae --Dweller (talk) 08:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

NOte to thyself
Make an article about making artifial planets! A theory proposed by Ariobarza himself! UAH JOLLY, SHUCKS!--Ariobarza (talk) 12:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Amel-Marduk
Ariobarza - I'm certainly nowhere near being an expert on ancient Near Eastern history, although I've tried to teach myself a fair amount. I've never read anything about Amel-Marduk attacking Media. What's the source for that? john k (talk) 14:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

That would be useful. Is this based on Xenophon's Cyropaedia? Because my understanding is that this is not viewed as a particularly reliable historical source, but more as a historical romance. john k (talk) 23:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Xenophon's account may contain historical details, but that's certainly a matter of great dispute. You'd need to find a scholar of the present day who believes a particular incident in the Cyropaedia is historical if you want to source it for historical articles. john k (talk) 23:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Thymbrium not Thymbra? check the book, A NEW CLASSICAL DICTIONARY...

Speedy deletion of Template:Campaignbox the Wars of Cyrus the Great
A tag has been placed on Template:Campaignbox the Wars of Cyrus the Great requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (&lt;noinclude>&#123;{transclusionless}}&lt;/noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

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Adding personal commentary to articles
Please do not add your personal interpretations or commentary to articles, as you did with Battle of Opis. This is a violation of Wikipedia's "no original research" policy, which requires articles to be based on reliable, verifiable third party published sources with a reputation for accuracy. -- ChrisO (talk) 08:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Additionally, do not, ever, alter direct quotations from sources . Deliberately introducing incorrect information into articles is considered vandalism and your edit has therefore been reverted. Please use the article's talk page if you have an issue with the content. -- ChrisO (talk) 08:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * ChrisO's right, you know. Doug Weller (talk) 09:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Request for comments
Following your recent disruption of articles on Persian history, I have started a request for comments on your conduct at Requests for comment/Ariobarza, CreazySuit, Larno Man. -- ChrisO (talk) 13:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Persian Revolt
Hi -- It's been brought to my attention that Rawlinson's book has a 2002 copyright, so I've to revert to the earlier version. There's really no option here for me. See the talk page of the article for details. In any case you know my feelings about writing an article this way. I am sure you didn't realise you were violating copyright, don't take this personally. It was a considerable surprise to me to find out it has a 2002 copyright. But, as I say on the talk page, what you were doing wasn't good for Wikipedia. Doug Weller (talk) 15:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Please calm down
First, please calm down. There is no need to be getting emotional and shouting with capital letters. Second, please edit your comment on the Kaveh Farokh Afd, and remove the bits that come across as rude and uncivil like "nonsense", "ridiculous" and similar terminology. It is important that you restrain and control yourself, and be as polite as you can be, for other people to take note of you concerns. Thank you. --CreazySuit (talk) 06:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

i DONT YELL! i like caps lock, its habit, but sorry if you think the other way.

ANI notice
Hello,. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jehochman Talk 04:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Wrong ISBN number and publisher
I've replied on my talk page, but just in case, you've got these wrong for Rawlinson's books it seems. Doug Weller (talk) 11:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Opis
Please let me know if you have further comments on what I wrote in the talkpage. --Nepaheshgar 15:51, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello
It's very hard to discuss with you. Break it down into small bits. I only have a small brain ;-)

OK, let's just deal with Ctesias's figures for now. Ctesias tells us numbers of combatants on each day. Not the size of the Persian army. If the battle had gone on another 10 days, would he have had more soldiers to throw into combat? --Dweller (talk) 11:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

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Mediation re Battle of Opis
A mediation has been opened on Battle of Opis, an article with which you have been involved recently. I have listed you as a party but please feel free to remove yourself if you do not want to participate in the mediation. Please see Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-10-06 Battle of Opis for the details. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Opis
Ariobarza,

I have read your commentary on the talk page, and I have to admit it is a little dense for me. I am going to read it again (and maybe a couple more times) because it is clear you have done a lot of work on it, and I do want to understand it properly before commenting. I will though. Remember, try to keep things simple for us common folk, ;>) -- best, Tundrabuggy (talk) 18:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Battle of the Tigris
I have nominated Battle of the Tigris, an article you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Battle of the Tigris. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Doug Weller (talk) 10:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Doug Weller (talk) 10:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

October 2008
Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. MuZemike ( talk ) 17:36, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's a diff:  Additionally, I saw the baleful comments you made at User talk:ChrisO and am surprised you were not blocked on the spot.  Please tone down the rhetoric.  If you feel yourself getting angry, stop posting and have a cup of tea or some cookies.  Then type out what you want to say in a word processor and save it for a while before posting.  Don't comment when upset or you may regret your remarks later.  It would be really good for you to go back and strike those comments. Jehochman Talk 18:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

This is your only warning. The next time you make a personal attack, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. ''As another editor suggested, you could have been blocked for this. You will be blocked if you continue personal attacks on other editors.'' Doug Weller (talk) 19:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * As inappropriate as Ariobarza's comment was, the two of you have been largely involved in this dispute, and hence are in no position to use your administrative tools on users involved in editing the Battle of Opis page or related articles.


 * Ariobarza: Please read WP:NPA ("Comment on content, not on the contributor"). When people are in an editing dispute they need to focus on making remarks on what they're editing and nothing else. Please avoid such personal threats in the future. Khoikhoi 03:38, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Where have I used my administrator tools? Don't you think he should be warned? Are you saying I shouldn't have warned him? I doubt I'd block him myself unless he stepped even further out of line. Doug Weller (talk) 17:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ariobarza, it would a good idea for you to go to User talk:Chris O and strike out your statement about deleting him, like this . It is very risky to make a joke that looks like a threat, because you could get blocked without any warnings. I was very lenient, but I have hopes for you. Jehochman Talk 08:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Gathering sources here

 * 


 * 


 * 


 * 


 * 


 * Book with Page 77 states seventh day of Adar

May I help you? If you click on this red link User:Ariobarza/Drafting, you can copy anything you like to that page to help you prepare content. Just leave out any category links that may appear at the bottom of an article such as Category:History. That way your drafting page won't show up in any categories. Jehochman Talk 19:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Notification of administrators' noticeboard discussion
I warned you earlier that continued misconduct would have serious consequences. Having reviewed your edits systematically, I believe there are significant concerns about you that need to be addressed. I have raised this issue at WP:AN/I. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Re "You people lack humanity and common sense, plus, are impatient Bratz dolls." here: Please comment on the topic of the discussion, not on other editors. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 21:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Ariobarza, FYI, I'm not completely familiar with this dispute, but I do have to admit concerns with these actions. It is generally considered bad form to modify other editors' comments. Could you please try to avoid this in the future?  You are welcome to add an additional comment of your own, but please don't change what someone else has said, unless you have their permission.  Thanks, --Elonka 00:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

You have been blocked for making threats
While I have no idea how you plan to implement your threats, I can't read this edit as anything but a threat against other Wikipedia editors, and such behaviour is not acceptable. Formalized notice below.

in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first.

Advice on behaviour while blocked
Note that you can edit your own talk page while you are blocked, even when you are logged in.

It's fairly routine that if you use IP addressses to edit pages outside of your talk page, those IPs get blocked as "block evasion".

Once the week's block is up, you'll be able to edit again - hope you have learned something. --Alvestrand (talk) 06:47, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Archiving assistance
Hi Ariobarza, your talkpage is very long right now. Some people's web browsers have trouble with long pages, even at 32K, and your page is more than twice that. May I create a system to archive it for you? This will automatically remove threads that are not active. Let me know, --Elonka 14:34, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Accept Elonka's offer, Ariobarza! She did it for me, as it happened, when I was blocked a few months ago. My Talk page exploded.... I'd been manually archiving, but didn't get around to it.... --Abd (talk) 22:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Ariobarza! I have set up the archive bot for you.  It will automatically archive any threads which have not been active for a week.  I can make it wait longer if you want.  Let me know. :) --Elonka 03:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Sock puppetry and disruption
For block evading sock puppetry and habitual disruption to the encyclopedia as documented here, I am lengthening your block to indefinite. Should you wish to resume editing, you will need to explain how things will be different in the future. Admins, please do not unblock this user without contacting me first or obtaining a consensus at WP:AN or WP:ANI. Thanks. Jehochman Talk 12:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

To Jehochman
Jehochman, this is what I told ChrisO, and I am forwarding it to you;

I could not reach you by any communication, so I am [Sorry] I am commenting on your page now. I do not know why I can edit from my computer now. I NOW (I did not know I was evading in the first place, all I did was poste "Please sign your commments" as a suggestion, it was not a big edit that I should be blocked infinitly for) know I should not, so I will make this brief. I had prophesied I would get finally banned, despite my efforts to be nice, you escalated things, and I am now blocked, and now you want to ban me? THIS WAS YOUR AGENDA/ plan PERIOD?! You just needed to sway the crowd a little, so good job. By the way check out my home page, and do not edit it please. So again I know I should not break the rules now, but seeing that your trying to delete valid articles, I had to put in the sources. I do not know if my articles (with you here) will survive in a week, so I had to do it. I am willing to not edit Wikipedia for two weeks (I will double my own sentence, to make up for my breaking of the rules) IF you promise me you will not delete those articles until the end of November, when I come back with my Public Apology and Reconciliation Letter to ALL (maybe even to you too, ChrisO). I want to come back, I love contributing Wikipedia (it makes me happy people are obtaining free knowledge, and that I am responsible for it) and I ask to have a mentor if I knew I could make articles before making them when putting my name in front of the title I would have done that, and no OR would have occured, I needed to put enough material to sustain the article in the begining, that is why IF I known, it looks like OR. So this is my solution to how I will be good, thats if you do not ban me of course, if you do I will never come here again, the founder of Wikipedia made mistakes too, and he's a Libertarian like me, so we have something in common. I know I have potential to improve, I accept I have made major mistakes in Wikipedia, mostly in OR and CIVIL stuff, I came here to Wikipedia last year, so I am technically new to the game, and wish to survive, so my life is in your hands...) I say this to you from the bottom of my {heart}. Thank you.

Overall, whether or not ChrisO has a plan against me (which I want to believe that he does not, and I think it started because of a dispute we had between eachother, that he did not gain anything for) I will anyways from now on be polite to him and others that do not agree with me, I know that ChrisO is a good person inside, he is not the problem, but I am. I hope that as your reading this message consider, that I am not an expert and I request to be mentored, and will use sandboxes from now on, then I will poste the article I want when it is complete with sources that confirm the titles. Jehochman, I will deeply appreciated if you tell Alvestrand to set my block for two weeks, and not let my Kapisa and Tigris articles get deleted until the end of November, when I come back. And please tell Alvestrand to read this message on my talk page, its updated and provides better details to how I will improve, thank you very very much!--Ariobarza (talk) 09:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * I am willing to reduce the block if you work with a mentor. There are a couple of editors who have expressed interest to me. Let me check with them.
 * Don't worry if an article is deleted. Any administrator can provide a copy to you. I strongly suggest you work with a mentor to create and polish articles in your userspace. Once your new articles satisfy Wikipedia standards, you can move them into main space. Jehochman Talk 11:44, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have emailed one prospective mentor. Jehochman Talk 14:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that would be me. Thanks, Jehochman. Ariobarza, you are welcome to email me, use the Wikipedia mail facility from my User or Talk page. I'll be watching your talk page, as well, if you have any problem, but my watchlist is enormous now, and I can miss a lot. Be patient if you email me, I don't always respond quickly, but feel free to send another mail if I haven't responded in a day or two. I'm not agreeing, yet, to be your mentor, only to talk with you about it, about what this would mean, what my job would be and what your part of it would be. You don't have to be an expert on anything to edit Wikipedia, but it's very important to understand the behavioral guidelines, which include restrictions on incivility and on edit warring. Beyond that, understanding the content guidelines, such as WP:NPOV, is, if you are going to be an active editor, also important, or you may create too much mess for others to clean up. All of that, though, can, I'm sure, be learned or worked out, if you are collegial, i.e., if you are able to work with other editors. I'd guess from what you've written above that you are willing to become this, if you aren't there already. (I have no opinion about the history of your block, I have not investigated it.) I'm looking forward to hearing from you. --Abd (talk) 21:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * One more thing, echoing Jehochman. Don't worry if the articles are deleted. We can get them back, if it's appropriate. (We can get a copy of the articles, period. It's getting them back into mainspace if they are deleted that's more complicated.) I'll put a Watch on them, so, maybe, if they are AfD'd, I'll see it and possibly comment. While you are blocked, unless I tell you otherwise, you could also email me with comments, and I'd review them and see if anything important from them should be added to the AfD. (I won't !vote for you, but you can present me with facts or opinions for my consideration.) --Abd (talk) 21:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I've now looked at WP:Articles for deletion/Battle of the Tigris, which has been deleted. I can't see the original article, but AfDs aren't a place to debate content, as such. Rather, the sole question raised by the AfD was the existence -- or nonexistence -- of reliable source on the topic. If reliable sources exist that substantiate what is in the article, or at least enough material for there to be a stub, it should be possible to describe them in a few lines. Not pages. One of the biggest problems is that "Battle of the Tigris," as applied to the event you have in mind, if that event existed, is a neologism. We don't make up words for things on Wikipedia. The fact that a battle happened at some time, and that it was on or near the Tigris, is not enough to create a topic of "Battle of the Tigris," unless it has been referred to as such in a reliable source, or there is a common usage established. I'm sure there have been many battles on or near the Tigris! I did read over much of what you wrote in the AfD, and it was almost totally off-point. I know it can be frustrating, but no original research is a basic guideline, you cannot look at sources, figure out something new from them, and put it on Wikipedia. Unless you can convince someone, some magazine, for example, to publish it! If you think about it, this is an essential guideline, for, without it, Wikipedia would be overwhelmed with new ideas, a few of them valid, perhaps, but most of them cockamamie. --Abd (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Abd. Let me know when you come to an agreement.  I may be online less this week than normal, but I will be checking in at least once every 24 hours. Regards also to Ariobarza. Jehochman Talk 21:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, Jehochman, I'll be in touch. --Abd (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are the former contents of the page: User:Ariobarza/draft1. Jehochman Talk 22:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Jehochman, I thank you for what you have done for me, but I cannot find Abd's email address to contact him, and I cannot comment on your page, so what do I do?--Ariobarza (talk) 06:12, 3 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk
 * Menus on the left hand side of the page, in the toolbox section, you'll see 'E-mail this user', just click on that. Please pay serious attention to what Abd has already said about about your Tigris article. Dougweller (talk) 07:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Doug, at least your one Big Brother that I'd like to have.--Ariobarza (talk) 09:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * That's nice. What you need now is to be patient and learn -- and accept that quite a few editors have commented upon your articles, some who hadn't seen anything from you until the past few days, and they all more or less agree about the situation. When you are used to essay writing, Wikipedia writing can be difficult because it is very, very different. Hmm, a list of the differences might (or might not) be useful. dougweller (talk) 21:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've responded to the email by email. We have not yet negotiated terms of mentorship, so I have not agreed to it, nor has he (beyond generally accepting the idea), but I assume we'll get to that in short order. --Abd (talk) 19:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Abd, I just wish if this could go a little faster, so I can provide Wikipedia with the sources I have found, plus further improving existing articles. I think you need to send me the email again, for some reason I did not get it, with best regards.--Ariobarza (talk) 20:18, 3 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * This message comes after I had asked Abd to email me again. So Elonka if your reading this I accept to let you archive my page, thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 03:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

To Jehochman 2 (I emailed you the complete version)
Jehochman, thanks again, but Abd is not ready to be my mentor (as he says). And I do not know who to ask, am I in a ditch? Secondly, could I edit my User:Ariobarza/draft1, while I am blocked? I just wish and want to know how long I will be indefinitely blocked because I commented on my ANI (at the time I did not know I broke a rule for commenting [when someone forgot to sign there message], but for editing articles, I did it as a last ditch effort to save them, the latter was done before the commenting). So you could please try to make this process go a little faster, (so I can contribute suppressed knowledge to this website) thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 17:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Unblocked
I have unblocked your account for reasons of assuming good faith and your emails to me. Please attempt to follow the advice we discussed. Thank you. Jehochman Talk 19:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

You will not get many warnings....
is not appropriate behaviour. You need to show that you are willing to concentrate on providing sourced material to Wikipedia, not attack other editors. --Alvestrand (talk) 20:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry, I retracted what I said. It was a slip up, it was part of my point. Its okay now, you can check it.--Ariobarza (talk) 03:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Battle Verifying
This will be here soon.--Ariobarza (talk) 03:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Template
The template is only to be used in cases where an article is up for speedy deletion. In the case of a regular deletion, you can continue to make improvements on the article until the AfD has run for five days if it ends up being deleted. Generally administrators take changes made during the course of an AfD into consideration before deleting it, and should it be deleted anyway and you feel your improvements weren't taken into consideration you can always file a deletion review and ask for the deletion to be overturned. A ni  Mate  03:58, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, got it, thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 04:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Citing a reference
Ariobarza, when you cite a reference, the usual style is to give author, title, year of publication, publisher, ISBN number, and which page you're citing. I have a preference to use the cite book template, which helps you to add the proper information in a standard format. I also recommend getting the books physically and seeing if others reference the book and author, so that you know that you're not quoting from a fringe theory. And when you are quoting from a book, the standard way is to put the quote in quotation marks, followed by a reference to the source.

If you do this, I think people will have an easier time discussing sources with you. (They still won't agree that a 19th century work that is clearly written to entertain is an appropriate source, but at least we'll all agree which book you're talking about, and what you are citing from it.) --Alvestrand (talk) 23:51, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Working together
I'm posting this to your talk page, rather than the article talk page, as this is something I think you need to hear. I've decided to work with you as an unofficial mentor to help you keep from being indefinitely blocked again. Your enthusiasm is clear and undisputed, but your technique leaves quite a bit to be desired. First off, you need to stop worrying about ChrisO and anything said on the subpage he created. The best way to prove him wrong isn't to argue with him, but to improve your contributions and the articles you're interested in. Secondly, these articles are all likely to be deleted in the state they are in now. Third, I'm willing to work on them with you in your userspace/sandbox, but you must understand our policies. You must read up on original research and understand that from here on in, if I say something is original research, I say so because I believe it is not because ChrisO thinks it is. You also, must learn and understand our reliable sources policy and our policy about verifiability. Most importantly, you need to read about and understand our policy on notability. Many of the battles you have written about have reliable sources, and the fact that they took place is verifiable (as much as something from the 400s BC can be verified). However, you seem to have a hard time establishing notability, and the only way to do that is with reliable sources.

So, no connecting the dots from here on out. For the time being, I'd like you consult with me on talk pages before you add anything to articles. Every sentence we craft on a talk page needs to be well sourced without our interpretations. I hope you can work within this framework until you better understand how our policies must be implemented. Also, if the articles you're currently concerned about are deleted, there are admins that will happily copy them into article space and I will happily work with you to improve them. However, if we cannot establish notability, they cannot be moved into the encyclopedia. That being said, if we are able to get these articles well sourced but not necessarily establish notability, we'll have the beautiful and richly sourced beginnings of an article about Cyrus the Great military campaigns. I know it's not your first choice, but you must keep an open mind. A ni  Mate  00:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll easily promise you I won't force you to make an entry about Cyrus the Great's campaigns, but there is one thing you've forgotten. That isn't an article I could write. I'm mentoring you to help you understand how articles are built here, and that's all. My only interest is teaching you the correct way to work and build articles here. A  ni  Mate  10:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I can also promise you that if Battle of the Marsyas is deleted I will immediately ask for it to be copied in one of our user spaces so we can continue to work on it. I don't know if we can make it a Wikipedia worthy article, but I promise to help you learn how to make articles worthy of inclusion here. A  ni  Mate  10:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)