User talk:Ariobarza/Archive 2

Battle of Pasargadae
Hi, some of the sources you found are beginning to turn the deletion debate - another editor has voted "hold to give time for improvements". Keep up the momentum by using the best of the sources (see my comments at the AfD) to improve the article within a week, preferably within 2 days, to give time for fixing any remaining difficulties. Don't get into any more arguments in the deletion debate. --Philcha (talk) 12:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ignore the provocative comment from X MarX the Spot - don't let him distract you from the article. If you want a laugh, check out X MarX the Spot's user page - then check the top right corner of mine >-) --Philcha (talk) 21:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Philcha is right. Keep your head down and work on articles. You need to stay out of debates about editors, that isn't helping you write better articles. dougweller (talk) 22:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * dougweller's other advice about copying all "your" AfD articles quickly to sub-pages of your user page is also good. Then work on one article at a time. Once you have built up your skill at writing articles and your knowledge of the subjects that interest you, you can start politely chasing the deletionists back into their holes - but it may take you a few months to get to that skill level. --Philcha (talk) 23:18, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Subpage
Ariobarza, hi, I declined the speedy deletion request for User:ChrisO/Battle of Opis. Dif you try just asking him politely if he felt the page was still needed? --Elonka 00:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not seeing where you asked him, could you please show me? And you can reply here at your talkpage, I'll watch for it. --Elonka 00:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

When I posted the speedydelete, doesnt that means he knows NOW? He has a tendency to ignore me, but I'll wait to see what he has to say. Thanks. The Opis issue is mostly between Nephasager and ChrisO.--Ariobarza (talk) 00:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza
 * We call that "putting the cart before the horse". Meaning that you tagged the page for speedy deletion, which generated an automatic message to ChrisO's talkpage to notify him.  A better way to handle things, would have been for you to post a polite message to ChrisO's talkpage.  You could have said something like, "Hi, I was looking at User:ChrisO/Battle of Opis, and it looks like it has not been updated in a long time.  Perhaps it is time to delete it?  Or do you think it's still needed?"  And then he could have chosen how to reply.  Please try to give him the benefit of the doubt?  When there were problems with his "Ancient Persian problems" subpage, some editors made a polite request to him on his talkpage, and he made the changes.  I think if you try to treat ChrisO with respect, it is possible that he may try harder to treat you with respect as well.  :) --Elonka 00:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do that.--Ariobarza (talk) 00:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Siege of Kapisa
I've userified this. dougweller (talk) 10:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Bless ya laddy!--Ariobarza (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Languages
Hi Ariobarza, do you speak any other languages? If so, we could add babelboxes to your userpage. These would tell other Wikipedians which languages you can understand. Let me know if you would like help with this? --Elonka 03:54, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Two things, I think it would be better to archive my talk page faster, and secondly I do not fully speak other languages, out of Farsi, Spanish, French, Chinese, but I speak full English, so the other languages thing is probably not a good idea for me now, thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 04:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk
 * That's okay on the languages, we can put a number on each one. For example, on a scale of 1 to 4, where 1 means "I can understand a little" and 4 means "I am fluent", just rate each one, and I can put this on your page.  It can be very helpful!  Also, for your talkpage, how fast would you like me to set the archive?  --Elonka 04:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hiya, just following up? I'm still curious as to what is your first language?  :) --Elonka 19:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Where do you want to start?
You have a large number of articles that are now residing in your user space. I'm still interested in helping you work on one, but need to know which one you'd like help with. If you'd like to continue with User:Ariobarza/Battle of the Marsyas we can do that, though I'm willing to work on any of the articles you've userfied. My only request is that we focus on one article at a time. A ni  Mate  22:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So, let's work on User:Ariobarza/Battle of the Marsyas. Can you please provide some sources about what lead up to this battle on the talk page or at least some sources discussing the overall conflict? Leave the info on User_talk:Ariobarza/Battle_of_the_Marsyas and we can work on making sure the article has enough context for Wikipedia. A  ni  Mate  04:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Excuse me for interrupting, but a bunch of people at the AfD for Battle of Pasargadae are expecting Ariobarza to improve that article within the next few days. If she does that, they may cut him a bit more slack next time. If he doesn't, his credibility will be reduced to absolute zero. -Philcha (talk) 08:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not here to help Ariobarza's credibility. I'm only helping her understand what those who have come in conflict with her expect for articles. A  ni  Mate  09:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's not have a misunderstanding here. I think our objectives are similar - I was referring to "what those who have come in conflict with her expect" in connection with one specific artcile where expectations have been raised. --Philcha (talk) 10:11, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose I should say that all I'm willing to do is help Ariobarza in her user space. I'm her de facto mentor, and I believe she has the potential to be a good contributor. The only interest I have here is helping her understand how thorough her articles need to be. A  ni  Mate  10:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems we agree on just about everything here. I was simply suggesting that, if there's a choice of starting subject, Battle of Pasargadae (either in article space or user space) would be a good one because of the AfD discussion. --Philcha (talk) 11:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Note to self
Update result of operation earnest will or praying mantis.

and put for hyrba, Livius Picture Archive: Pasargadae, yah. DID IT.

and this for kapisa,. DID IT.


 * Nice pics, but Livius Picture Archive: Pasargadae says "Photos can be downloaded and used for non-commercial purposes". I think that might conflict with WP's policy on Copyrights and it would be wise to ask about this at Wikipedia talk:Copyrights.


 * I did not mean to eavesdrop, but I still have your page on my watchlist after our recent discussions. Best wishes, --Philcha (talk) 11:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Philcha I think you got the wrong idea, I do not want to load up a picture, I am just when I get unblocked, want to replace an existing citation, do not worry about it, I just gathering sources now. And about Pasargadae, they should not have merged it with the place, because now I do not see one mention of the battle on the article, they promised to include it, but it is still not there. They need to delete the redirect when I finish making Battle of Pasargadae. Thanks.--Ariobarza (talk) 17:43, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Block for incivility
in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. Please stop. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text below.

This edit was beyond the bonds of civility. You'd better shut up for a day until you calm down and understand that civility is not optional. --Alvestrand (talk) 09:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's really disappointing after I told you you needed to avoid conflicts with other editors and concentrate on editing your own articles. I don't know why you do this sort of thing, you have enough work on your hand and problems just doing straight editing. You've been given a lot of slack so far but you don't seem to be taking proper advantage of it. When you were unblocked I hoped that you would reform. dougweller (talk) 10:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Check your email Alvestrand, do it now (like arnold said)!--Ariobarza (talk) 10:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

I currently see some admins saying stuff like, "shut up" "bullshit" "crap", is this okay for them to say this stuff? But it is illegal for me to say Patriot Act(I was blocked because I had it caps on, I thought ITspelled with caps on, like this, PATRIOT ACT, so I am sorry), for a rare breed of girl like me, I have taken a lot of heatding from guys, and my feelings are hurt when I see Wikipedia turning into a POV encyclopaedia of politics with contradictory rules. thanks all for understanding.--Ariobarza (talk) 10:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * Please provide diffs when you make accusations like the above. Even in quarrels about behaviour, Wikipedia should be based on verifiable facts.
 * You were blocked because I regard the claim that Wikipedia administrators are implementing a "Patriot Act" (a piece of legislation that I thoroughly detest, and which I think contains rules that are anathema to the principles of Wikipedia) an insult to all those people who are doing their best to help the free exchange of information through Wikipedia.
 * The accusation means that you STILL don't understand that you are working with people who are working in good faith to build the best possible encyclopedia - you are choosing to engage in insults instead of sticking to the verifiable facts.
 * I don't know, and don't care, whether you are a boy, girl, dog, cat or none of the above. Your behaviour is still not acceptable. --Alvestrand (talk) 12:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ariobarza, I'm disappointed too. Being proud of your country is fine. But you need to accept that every nation has done things in the past that would not be acceptable to-day. A few examples from British history:
 * Around 1920 British troops in India shot up a peaceful pro-independence demonstration. But newspaper reports of this made the British public ashamed, and UK support for Indian independence increased.
 * In the long term it was a good thing that the Parliamentary forces won the English Civil War, but the immediate result was a government dominated by intolerant, dictatorial Puritans.
 * Henry VIII was a very effective ruler, but he was also a monster.
 * The Scots now make much of the Scottish Highlanders' independence and resistance to English domination, but most of Scotland's population lived in the Central Lowlands where the economy was relatively modern, and at the time regarded the Highlanders as gangsters. (PS I'm a Scot)
 * In all countries developments that were beneficial in the long-term often had unpleasant immediate side-effects. Modern Western societies treat Ancient_Greece, especially Athens, as the source of much of its culture, but the 5th century BC Greeks, including Athens, perpetrated several massacres of other Greeks (see Peloponnesian War). Standards of behaviour then were different. Historians from all these countries are quite open about such things. It's nothing to get upset about. --Philcha (talk) 13:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Three things to be clear about:

1. It has nothing to do with being proud of my country;

2. I never yell, maybe get mad, but I put the caps on key, sometimes by mistake, and sometimes to prove a point;

3. I am just concerned about ChrisO actions on Wikipedia, and he knows it. I have never and will never talk to anyone in the way I talk to ChrisO (I am actually now reducing my disputes with him by trying to finish them, which now he has started disputes with 3-4 other users that are now starting to not like what he is doing here too), he was not called an Iranian Nationalist by Ariobarza (it was the other way around), and he never got blocked for other things he said too, maybe excessive reverts;

This is soley between me and him, and there is no reason for you people to get mad. Blocking me is a waste of time for me and Wikipedia, if you want to see progress, do what they do in court, put me and ChrisO in a polling and compare who has contradicted themselves more (based on available evidence of edits on Wikipedia). It is funny when ChrisO does something that a considerable amount of users do not agree with, nothing happens, then when I do something all hell breaks loose, (it's because your inexperienced and ChrisO is an admin, he has more legislative powers), is this why [?] Finally, when I make a really good point in an arguement my message gets removed, I hope that Alvestrand puts back my message, but takes out the USA PATRIOT Act part, thank you. Now for the dispute I was in before I got blocked, {it has to with his point of view of including Lamberts translation of Nabonidus Inscription about Cyrus not slaughtering the people after the Battle of Opis (whether or not a fringe theory), which now a respected journal seems to agree with Lambert on an important word "daku," but still ChrisO thinks (as 3 others do not agree with him) if we include the two related articles (related because they reach the same conclusion on the translation of the word) then we are doing original research by synthesis, at the same time (while preaching neutrality) he gives undue weight to Amelie Kuhrt, as he includes her non-academic research in the article, basically she gets more talk time than the other historians, so is this being fair and balanced [?] I involved myself in Opis because this is the last dispute there, and because I MaDe that article, I thought it was my responsibility to end the dispute once and for all, because I know that after this dispute has ended, the article will not have anymore disputes, and will possibly be a good article. I am sorry this has caused an inconvenience to all, so goodbye for today. So as you all forgot to answer my questions above, please answer those, and these now, and please do not change the subject like you did when you said above, "its okay to be proud, but every country has done something bad too," I think I know my history, thanks. Godspeed John Glenn.--Ariobarza (talk) 18:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * Forgot to note, though Kuhrt is qualified in the field, she has a tendency to down grade some aspects of Persian or Greek history, this is common early British historians on Persia. For example ChrisO put a quote about it is impossible to read Xenophon's works as history, while many books have been able to explain its historical parts. ChrisO seems to like to her, her name appears in every section of the article, other than that there might be 2 or 3 other historians mentioned. Secondly, check out the sections, "dispute" and "Tadmor" in the Battle of Opis talk page, as the dispute is now confirming what I said earlier on the talk page, about "equal representation." Thank you.--Ariobarza (talk) 18:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk


 * Ariobarza, are you really not understanding how your behaviour is percieved? You are discussing with very knowledgeable people here, some of them see some merit in some of your argument, but your behaviour is making it nearly impossible to have a rational discussion. No matter who originally wrote an article, nobody WP:OWNs it, ever.
 * At the moment, Battle of Opis mentions Lambert's translation (footnote 15), so you're trying to break down an open door there. You're accusing Kuhrt of having "non-academic research" even in this discussion, without having any source to show for it (accusing a person born in 1944 of being an "early British historian" is just ludicrous), Tadmour still has never been quoted as commenting on the Nabondius chronicles, and you're (as multiple times before) spouting more words accusing ChrisO of misconduct than you are in providing sources for the arguments you are putting into the field.
 * Your responsibility is to stop the personal attacks, provide sources for your claims, and respect the fact that other editors see the evidence differently than you do. Then you may find that people listen to you. As it is, you are destroying your own credibility. --Alvestrand (talk) 18:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Instead of worrying about and fighting with ChrisO, might a better use of your time here be working on the articles that have been copied into your user space? They won't be there indefinitely, and I think improving one or two of them would really be beneficial to your understanding of proper sourcing and article building in general. A  ni  Mate  22:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Alvestrand, I have nothing to prove anymore, I told you like it is above. When my mom lived in Britian, she had been to the British Museum and knows first hand how many objects were illegally taken (some artifacts are still unopened in dusty boxes, just like in Indiana Jones) from not just Iran, but India, Iraq, Egypt, the Americas, and Polynesia. It was a tendency to for the British to do this in the colonial era, its just history. I have nothing against Kuhrt, her writings are used in a way that constitutes SYN, and most of tone is in a theorizing mattter, read the sentences yourself. I am not trying to point fingers, I am just using an analogy to show similarities of history with what is going on here. But that is not my point. My point was explained above, and now I will make a huge decrease in my contacts with ChrisO, and from now on I will watch the ToNe of my writtings carefully to see if I ever offended someone. and get back to editing articles, thanks for reminding though. I actually needed the 1 day break for other reasons, as you know, everything (might) happens for a reason, best regards and thank you.--Ariobarza (talk) 02:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)
The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Siege of Gordium
I have nominated Siege of Gordium, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Siege of Gordium. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. dougweller (talk) 10:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ariobarza, your comments at this AfD are not being constructive. This time, ChrisO did not touch the AfD; Dougweller created it. In the case where you see that there are no sources, you are MUCH better off just saying "OK, I'm not opposing it" than writing a long harangue about things that don't matter for the AfD discussion. Those comments just serve to make people think less of you, and do not help in what you want to achieve.
 * This is advice. --Alvestrand (talk) 09:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Response on my talk. --Alvestrand (talk) 19:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Unwise edit
This edit is you attempting to change someone else's opinion by editing in their userspace. That's most unwise. --Alvestrand (talk) 14:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And I'm worried about what looks like a threat to User:Ev here . Plus nebulous threats of some future action against someone unnamed. dougweller (talk) 15:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Check your talk pages for response to your blasphemy (its just a joke, oh God, not now, please don't cry, please!!! Mom little Tom is crying again, mom can you hear me?!).

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)
The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 15:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)