User talk:Arroser (usurped)

Merrry Christmas
Go ahead and discuss your chnages with the user ChickenChorizoRice and see what happens...

Merrry Christmas tu everybody

Warrington (talk) 14:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Well, I've tried it, but he doesn't gives me an explanation. I don't understand why if this is a free enciclopedia he has reverted all my contributions when all I've added it's to make more complete and realistic the article (I'm a valencian chef,I know very well paellas).

Bye

Sorry, I need to tell you that you seem to left the message on his user page, not on his talk page. Those are two different things. The user page is for presenting yourself, if you wish, while talk page is for messages. using thet the person gets the message, a yellow ribbon comes up on the screen.

I am sure that your intentions are good. Just discuss everything calmly and nicely and you may reach some argeement or solution-)

Warrington (talk) 15:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I removed the message from his userpage, and left a message on his talk page.

one more thing If you type ~ 4 times at the end of tour message,, your message will be automatically signed

and you do not have to say I am A.

see? Warrington (talk) 15:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Changes __________________________________________________

Do You mean that Paella Marinera or Paella de marisco (Seafood paella) is also a Valentian paella (or a Valentian invention?

Probably these are the changes you need to discuss::

In 1960-1970 the growing coastal turism made popular the traditional recipes along the rest of Spain, and when the Spanish imigrants returned home, mixed both paella recipes and created mixed paella. http://arrozsos.com/articulos/ver/historia_de_la_paella The history of paella on Arroz Sos website.] After that, the foreing tourism have popularized that recipe around the World. However, Valencians considere is wrong to call paella to any yellow rice recipe, because the traditional valencian gastronomy has many types of yellow rice recipes besides Paella Valenciana and Paella Marinera, and traditionally just call "paella" these two recipes. In spanish touristic places, mixed paella is very common. Some restaurants in Spain (and many in the United States) that serve this mixed version refer to it as Valencian paella but Valencians insist only the original valencian recipes can bear the name paella, as an specific name of these two specific recipes, like another rice dishes ("Arrós al forn", "Arrós en fesols i naps", "Cuban rice", "Arroz con costillejas", or "Milanese rice", etc) have too their own specific recipes.

Paella in the world

Around the World paella has evolved into a general word (like pizza or pasta) to call any rice recipes[12], but these recipes often include ingredients radically differents (chili, octopuss, lamb, pig, or beef meat, sausage, chorizo, cheese, etc.)from two original valencian recipes. Consequently, paella went from being a relatively simple dish of rice, beans, meat and green vegetables to mixing fresh seafood, meat, various types of sausage (the most popular being Spanish chorizo)[13][14], a wide range of vegetables and many different seasonings.[15] Today, these rice recipes are cooked in Australia[16][17], Asia (including the Philippines[18]), Latin America, the U.S., and West European coutries such as Portugal, Germany[19], Sweden[20], Norway[21] and Denmark[22]. However, the most globally popular recipe is seafood paella.

Warrington (talk) 16:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Paella Article
Why don't you make the changes to the paella article again. Maybe ChickenChorizoRice won't change them again. By they way, what restaurant in Valencia do you work at? Monkey&#39;sFather (talk) 16:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

What don't you understand from my explanations??
I wrote:

In 1960-1970 the growing coastal turism discovered the two traditional recipes, and when the Spanish imigrants returned home, they started to mix both paella recipes and created mixed paella. After that, the foreing tourism have popularized that mixed recipe around the World.

However, Valencians considere is wrong to call paella to any yellow rice recipe, because the traditional valencian gastronomy has many symilar types of yellow rice recipes besides Paella Valenciana and Paella Marinera (like "Arrós al forn", "Arrós a banda", "Arrós en fesols i naps",etc. I mean) and traditionally just call "paella" these two recipes.

Some restaurants in Spain (and many in the United States) that serve this mixed version refer to it as Valencian paella but Valencians insist only the original valencian recipes can bear the name paella, as an specific name of these two specific recipes, like another rice dishes ("Arrós al forn", "Arrós a banda", "Arrós en fesols i naps", "Cuban rice", "Arroz con costillejas", or "Milanese rice", etc) have too their own specific recipes.

Mixed paella is a very modern and very anarchyc invention for tourist, since somebody decide to call paella like it were the real paella recipes. Obviously,if you use anything you want, instead of cooking an specific or traditional recipe like "Arrós al forn", "Arrós a banda", "Cuban rice", "Arroz con costillejas", or "Milanese rice", etc, you're creating another thing, maybe symilar, but never real, because the traditional recipes use specific ingredients, and therefore is wrong to call any anarchyc invention "Paella", "Arrós al forn", "Arrós a banda", "Cuban rice", "Arroz con costillejas", or "Milanese rice", etc. because don't respect their ingredients. (Search this rice recipes, and you'll see what I'm saying)

You can create a fish recipe and call it choucrout, but it wouldn't be choucrout even you call it choucrout(because choucrout uses sausages, but not fish).

You can create a "salty cake", but it wouldn't be a real cake, because cakes use sugar not salt.

You can take some pieces of bread, add tomatoes and cheese and call it pizza, but it wouldn't be pizza because pizza don't uses pieces of bread.

'''And therefore you can't add anything you want to rice (spicy chilis, mushrooms, chorizo, sausages, beef, pig, octopuss, even cheese!!!, etc) and call it "paella", because paella just has two very specific recipes (the variations are minimal). For exemple, valencians have one traditional rice recipe with sausage, blood sausage, and chorizo, and we call it "Arrós al forn" (Baked rice), never paella, because it's not paella, it's "Arrós al forn". "Arroz con costillejas" is too very symilar to Valencian paella, and "Arrós a banda" is very symilar to Seafood paella,  but never are called "Paella", because each recipe use different ingredients.''' There's a big diference between recipe version or imitation (minimal variation) and recipe fake (radical variation).

And if the own valencians (the creators of paella) traditionally (from centuries) 'have many symilar yellow rice dishes, but just call paella two recipes (Paella Valenciana and Paella Marinera'') I think i'ts very clear all what I mean. Don't you think??'''

(I cook paellas at Valencia Palace Hotel, Spain)

''Archaic means = very old. Do you mean that ?''

I think I get your point. As you say, from the Valencian point of wiew :you're creating another thing, maybe similar, but never real paella, not for a Valancian.

Anyway, and probably unfortunately for the original Valencian version, paella became an internalional dish.

In the food history, many dishes have similar happenings. Like Goulash, once a Hungarian dish, and now they are eating it in Italy, USA, Australia, Austria, Sweden, and so on, and they are cooking Goulash in a different from the original dish.

That is life.

Hungarians can not protest against is, and the same with Valencian.

That is why there is a special section in the article seerarate for the original Valencian Paella, But there is also some information about the other, not Valencian dishes, which the Valencians never call paella, but – unfortunately, the rest of the world call it paella.

Very sad, but true, and if true it has to be mentioned in an Encyclopaedia. .

Just like pizza, once an Italian dish, now international (and this make Italians sad and angry).

Anyway:  A part of Your contribution is in the article now, at the section Similar dishes (since user ChickenChorizoRice did not show up, I added that again, and someone else move it to the section Similar dishes'''

Similar dishes
Valencians do not refer to all saffron rice recipes as paella. Traditional Valencian cuisine offers recipes similar to paella valenciana and paella marinera such as arrós al forn, arrós a banda and arrós en fesols i naps. The following is a list of other similar rice dishes.

Warrington (talk) 17:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

One last thing
First, thanks so much for your atention.

But, I even think, that the article could explain better that Paella is an specific term for an specific ways of cooking rice, not a generic name as “rice…” (for example "Rice by australian way", or "Jim's rice" instead "Australian paella" or "Jim's paella ) because even many people confuse both terms, that does'nt means that they are right. In fact, Internet is full of confussion.

I’ve even seen one supposed german paella recipe without rice!!!



Obviously this video recipe is an absolut fake. This chef probably never have tasted a real paella.

But in spite of all he calls his recipe "paella", increasing the woldwide confussion about the term.

Where is the limit between recipe version and recipe fake??

'''The most correct name for all anarchyc rice recipes would be “Rice by my way”. I mean, making analogies, if when the principal ingredient of a recipe is pasta, the dish is called “pasta…”, when the principal ingredient is the rice, the correct name would be “rice…” (as happens with “Arrós al forn”, “Arrós a banda”, “Milanese rice”, "Cuban rice", etc.).'''

'''I’ts like playing a card game. If you say you’re playing, you have to follow it specific rules, or the rest of players would say seriously to you: Hey, What are doing mac?? Your playing is not fair??'''

Therefore, If someone says "I'm making paella", has to follow the paella rules or create a new name for the recipe that is cooking.

And that’s life too.

Look this links and after ask yourself: Are traditional valencian rice recipe bears chorizo and sausage may I call it paella?? Because in fact are not called paella, but everyone who read the paella wikipedia article, would believe valencians are wrong.







And they would get a wrong conclussion...Don’t you think??

Many tourist I've feed in Valencia, were highly surprised when demanded paella (some of them even believed valencian recipes were wrong). Before they knew the original valencian recipes they believed paella was a very different recipe, just the ones they tasted on their countries.

In other words, to finish this post, if wikipedia’s finality is to be a serious reference to teach people, a serious enciclopedia, wikipedia’s paella article simply must explain better this name question, and avoid to increase people confussion about paella.

Bye and Merry Xmas.

You are welcome. I added to the Valencian paella section The Valencians feel that no other dishes than the Valencian paella valenciana and paella marinera should be ever called for paella. Hope it will stay

German paella recipe without rice??? That is terrible! There is, as you say, no limit between recipe version and recipe fake.

Is the recipe in the article correct with the correct ingredients??

You said: Paella is a specific term for a specific way of cooking rice,

How do you think that realpaella has to be made? How are you cooking real Valentian paella??

Have a nice winter holiday

Warrington (talk) 20:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)