User talk:Aryder779/Archive 1

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Notability of Lip Service Clothing
A tag has been placed on Lip Service Clothing requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Accounting4Taste: talk 16:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thrahcore and Powerviolence
User:Aryder779 I see you have a problem with my recent edits in the Thrashcore and Powerviolence articles. The reason I reverted your edits is that you redirected the page without putting any notice on the talk page of the article or any effort to achive consensus. As for my edits on thrashcore, honestly, it was long in the making. The thrashcore acticle seems to not establish any notability and it seems many of the bands are often put into other genres. whereas Powerviolence have a clear line of influence leading to the genre and even bands witch have refered to themself's as such. I hope we can reslove our dispute peacefully Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 18:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I moved this from your userpage to to your talkpage.Inhumer (talk) 00:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Magrudergrind and The Endless Blockade are the only two I can think of atm, though I know of others.Inhumer (talk) 22:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Slight Slappers, though they've been around since PV was at its peak.Inhumer (talk) 22:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

We should try to get an article with sources on Charles Bronson written since we seem to be the only one interested in improving articles on the more extreme punk genres.Inhumer (talk) 11:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see some fixing up genre articles, as most are terrible.Inhumer (talk) 15:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm currently working on pages that redirect to Hardcore Punk, but I'll try and look for some web based sources for CB later today or tomorrow.Inhumer (talk) 15:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any sources you "orgrinal/real" screamo, because I feel its a little under represented in the article.Inhumer (talk) 23:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Screamo
Yeah thats fine. Be careful with your use of citations though--SilverOrion (talk) 06:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You know of any reliable sources on the use of the term "skram" or "skramz".Inhumer (talk) 18:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, forums are the only place I ever heard the term.Inhumer (talk) 21:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: Metalcore
Your the only one who seems to think that melodic metalcore exists and that death metal was an origin for metalcore. You cannot report me for vandalism just because you don't agree with my edit. It's not vandalism. Oh, and ONE person from an early metalcore band said HE, personally, was influenced by death metal. That's your source? That doesn't mean death metal was an origin for all metalcore. Give me a break. You can't just provide some sources and spribnkle them with your POV and make up shit. Same thing with melodic metalcore. Yes, there are sources that say metalcore has gotten more melodic over the years, but it's not a seperate genre. And to say so is a lie. Your sources do not support what you are trying to say. If anything I should report you if you keep adding in your own POV into the article.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 20:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to understand one thing. This has been discussed before, a few times. Each time consensus was that melodic metalcore does not exist as its own subgenre. Melodic in this case is just a description. Yes, it was agreed that metalcore has gotten more melodic over time, but it is not its own subgenre. I listen to black metal (among other things) and certain bands are described as depressive black metal, epic black metal, atmospheric black metal, etc. and they all have a specific sound that is different, but they are not their own subgenres. Rather, depressive/epic/atmpspheric/etc. is merely a description. Oh, and your one sources doesn't mean anything. You can find a lot of sources out there for ANYTHING with just one source talking about it (as in this case, supposedly, with that magazine). One source doesn't mean jack. Sorry.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 16:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Grindcore
When you start editing again, you should take a look at the grindcore article. I thought you may be able to lend you expertise and knowledge of punk to the article.Inhumer (talk) 13:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

genres
Hey, I'm confused. What exactly is the difference between post-hardcore and metalcore? I recently changed a band's genre from one to the other, but now i'm not so sure if it's right.

Thanks! You're response was helpful. I'm happy to say that I think my edits were right.

Oh, and the band I was talking about is Staple.

New Edits on the "Grindcore" article
Hello, I've written some comments on Grindcore's Talk Page about the new edits you've made. You should check them out. Cheers, Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've written a reply to your July 24th comments. Musicaindustrial (talk) 19:29, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Naked City
Many thanks for your work on the Naked City page DISEman (talk) 01:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit Summaries
Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary, as it helps everyone to understand what is changed, such as when perusing the history of the page. Thanks, and happy editing.  Esradekan Gibb   "Talk" 01:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Charles Bronson (band)
Nice work on the rescue of the Charles Bronson (band) article too.  Esradekan Gibb   "Talk" 01:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Crusties
Hi, can we talk about putting the Crusties page back?

It seems to have been merged with Crust Punk but I would appreciate the chance to talk it over. Graham87 sent me this as the latest revision of the page before it went.

I don't know if this is a UK/US thing, but I was a face in the London crusty scene for many years and can honestly state that for me "Crust Punk" was never part of the subculture: the music listened to at that time was not generally punk and the term "Crust Punk" was never used. I think they are related but functionally distinct things in that you could be a crusty and not have anything to do with crust punk but of course there is a joint cultural heritage of sorts and that perhaps the terms are now far more cojoined.

I thought the independent article did not undermind the crust punk article. I provided at least one academic reference to support my text and believe that we should at least have a chat about it.

Silverwood (talk) 12:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Noise music
I saw the work you did on Noise music and agree with almost all of it, but I was wondering if after taking out the Smashing Pumpkins and Daft Punk (actually DP's early work is extremely noise-based) if we might not want to add other examples of noise in relative popular music - such as grunge. Nirvana, of course, comes to mind, but also Big Black and/or the Butthole_Surfers. And/or a more pure hard core punk band like Flipper (band)?

Thank s for your advise. Valueyou (talk) 11:08, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Message received. I confirm the noise rock link does it. Thanks again. Valueyou (talk) 15:32, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Noisegrind
I'm going to try and sort out the Noisegrind Afd mess :-). I'll try re-listing it, and removing the PROD. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ARGH. Having said that, I'm now not sure how to do it... Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now done. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Industrial Metal
Greetings... You have done a great job on the industrial metal article, and I was thinking of restaring my work on it. Go visit the article's talk - I made some comments that might further improve it, and I'd appreciate your opinion them. Musicaindustrial (talk) 15:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I did some new edits on "History - Early innovators" section, mainly focused on the Ministry and Godflesh-related paragraphs. Check them out and see what you think. There's some footnotes missing and some extra re-phrasing needs to be done, but the writing's almost finished. Musicaindustrial (talk) 22:59, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the award! By the way, are you aware of the Prongs unofficial Ministry site ? It has a huge archive of scanned Ministry interviews. Check it out on: ! Musicaindustrial (talk) 00:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Kevin Martin (British musician)
A tag has been placed on Kevin Martin (British musician) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. andy (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey Ary
Well, I feel I've been perfectly transparent. Its not that we don't get along (as much as two faceless internet entities can get along), its just I highly disagree with your edits to grindcore. No malice, and I feel this is actually pretty healthy. I thought, as I previously detailed, that the measures you took on deathcore earlier this week seemed a bit spiteful, more than anything. So that did not endear you. But somehow this quickly became more cordial and procedural and so it will probably remain. I appreciate the warmer outreach than last time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karen carpentry (talk • contribs) 18:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey
Saw your "thanks" on my page, and I appreciate the note. It's funny how dealing with WQA issues seems to have taken up most of my available Wikipedia time :) I'm glad things are smoothed over with the other 2 editors.  Happy editing!  BMW  (drive)  11:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Bataille
Just read your remark on B. not being a stalinist, but the not bored article is about some of his writing, not on his life. for B. and human sacrifice the whole ling chi desaster is also instructive (see J. B.·s book and the turandot site).P.S.: I really should not talk when in a bad mood, but this whole Stalinist debate seems to get to me everytime. I·m also no expert on Bataille, but always found his short fiction great (am the happy owner of A tale of satisfied desire, Olympia Press). B·s "pro-industrialisation" idea must have had something to do with his view of sacrifice (Aztec, and then also chinese, The lingchi pictures). You know the lyon site on them? --Radh (talk) 18:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Art punk
I could use your assistance on this article. Hoponpop69 is insistent upon deleting referenced material and a group effort is necessary to stop him. Thanks! --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  16:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see Hop's most recent edit. If there was any better proof of his ill intent, I do not know what it would be.  Can you revert please?  I have been warned for 3RR.  Thanks. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  02:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Why did you remove citation tags and sourced information replacing it with information that was previously removed for being unsourced?
Can you explain this edit ?Hoponpop69 (talk) 17:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Shoegazing/The Scene That Celebrates Itself
Regarding your recent merge and move, the Shoegazing/shoegaze issue has been discussed extensively on the talk page and there was no consensus for a move to 'Shoegaze'. With regard to The Scene That Celebrates Itself, this has also been discussed on the talk page and at AFD for this article where the consensus was to retain this as a separate article. I have therefore moved Shoegaze back to Shoegazing and undone the redirect on The Scene That Celebrates Itself. Please reach consensus before making such changes again. Thanks.--Michig (talk) 18:10, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Industrial metal "good article" nomination
Hey Aryder, thanks for the heads up!

I would like to do some minor stuff on article before putting it up for evaluation, if that's OK with you. I'll notify my edits on the article's discussion page, so can give your input on them. How about a 2-week limit before we send "industrial metal" for the "good article" candidacy? Say, right around January 12th? Musicaindustrial (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Visit the industrial metal talk page, especially the "Commercial rise" and "Glam rock/hard rock/heavy metal/glam metal crossover" sections. Musicaindustrial (talk) 19:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, I was thinking: adding new sections now to the industrial metal article would be a drag - they take ages to be finished. You're cool if I put the article up for nomination now? Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

GOTH!
I can actually fill out the article quite well up to. . . 1985 or so. After that is where I really need help, if that's where you want to focus your efforts. Aside from the Reynolds book, I have the NME Originals goth issue, which reprints articles, interviews, and reviews up to 1992. The Robert Smith and Andrew Eldritch interviews are always good for a laugh. There's also some other magazine articles I need to dig up. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, I don't own the Mercer book; I saw it once in a used bookstore in New York in 2004, but I put off buying it and now regret it. So whatever you add will be useful, although given the liner notes in the Gothic Rock CD compilation, he doesn't consider The Cure and the Banshees goth (that's why we rely on consensus of sources!). WesleyDodds (talk) 03:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Metal Observer: new "Criticisms" section
I've been recently editing the Metal Observer article... Now, I find this web zine generally useful for information purposes; infortunately, it has a few glaring errors (absurd mix-up with band genres, for one) which could prove misleading for the metal neophyte. For that I created a "Criticism" section, to warn potential visitors of the site.

The problem is, I'm currently engaging Prophaniti on a "war of words" regarding the validity of this section. The guy's been a troll since the beginning, and I'm starting to sound like a jerk myself because my patience is wearing thin. He has some good points, but his unremittingly hostile behavior further complicates matters.

Could you give me a hand on this? Check out this talk page and tell me what you think. Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:NIN - Closer.ogg
A FairuseBot said that the "Closer" audio file in the Industrial metal article was in possible violation with non-free use rationale. Could you take a look at this? Thanks. Musicaindustrial (talk) 10:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

"Your GA nomination of Industrial metal"
Hey man... admin Daniel Case (talk) has recently posted this on my talk page:

The article Industrial metal you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Industrial metal for things needed to be addressed.

So, this is it. I'd appreciate your input again on this one! Musicaindustrial (talk) 10:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Industrial metal: the "Further reading" section
I feel I owe you an explanation. I removed the Connelly book off the "Further reading" section because the text didn't cite it. I'm all for including this book in the article - I'm sure its filled with some amazing anedoctes we could all use - but I felt that mentioning it without citing it left a bit of a loose end. If you don't agree with me and want to include anyway, go ahead, I won't object to that all. We all want to improve the article and I respect your opinion, no matter how different it sometimes may be from mine.

By the way, I read Georges Bataille's Story of the Eye ages ago. I'm also into Charles Baudelaire. What screwed-up bastards, these frenchmen, ha ha... Brilliant writers, though! Musicaindustrial (talk) 23:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The article passed the review process! Check out your user page, I left you a template you might find interesting. Musicaindustrial (talk) 02:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Japanese hardcore
Hi there! Um, hope I'm not being daft here, but what's the source for including Gallhammer under a list of Japanese hardcore? Yes, they have admitted influences, but I'm yet to see a reference describing them as such. There may well be one, and I hate these genre debates, but it just struck me as a bit odd. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, you have probably already seen but today's Terrorizer has Part 2 of their Grindcore special, with specific sections on goregrind, crustgrind and electrogrind. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:45, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There's a storm brewing...
Hey man! I've been recently editing the Soulfly article, which was somewhat inept due to a gerenal lack of sources. Another Wikipedia editor, Prophaniti (talk), has changed music genres in the Infobox based on an ultimately unreliable source, The Metal Observer. Now, I've had a nasty run-in with this editor and his friend Landon1980 (talk) in the past due to some editing on the now deleted Metal Observer article. I'm not asking for you to get involved but to check, now and then, the talk page of Soulfly article, as a third party editor directly uninvolved with the editing disputes. I am under the impression that we'll see sparks flying in a near future... Musicaindustrial (talk) 10:13, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, three years ago I had this crazy notion that I could write a comprehensive book about industrial music, but the sheer amount of information required to that overwhelmed me. Nevertheless, I came across some pretty interesting stuff... One of my research goals was to find more about the meeting between industrial music and movie soundtracks, and I came across Derek Jarman's work (he collaborated with Throbbing Gristle and Coil).


 * Have you ever seen In the Shadow of the Sun? If you're into magick and experimental cinema, you'll probably like it... Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Grindcore sound clips
Fellow wikipedian  Chzz  ►  has suggested in my talk page that we could add "a sound clip or two" to enhance the Grindcore article. What do you say? Besides the usual legal issues, I think the biggest problem would be choosing the tracks that could represent the entire genre.

My first suggestion is: lets avoid the over-the-top, blast-beat-you-hell tracks; of course they have to have blast beats, but the sample songs should have an identifiable song structure. I'm thinking of something from Napalm Death's From Enslavement to Obliteration (say, "Unchallenged Hate") or something from Terrorizer's World Downfall... either the completely brutal "Storm of Stress" or what I personally consider this album's best track, "Fear of Napalm". Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Post-industrial music and related fusion genres
I have two great sources that could really help you out on this task. One is the Looking for Europe: the Neofolk Compendium 3-CD compilation. It comes with a massive booklet with tons of great info this genre. The other one is the "Noise" chapter of a great book called Japan Edge.

I also have another suggestion: you could add an extra genre in "Post-industrial developments" - Futurepop (VNV Nation, Covenant, Apoptygma Berzerk, ect). It was arguably the most popular industrial subgenre in the scene this decade, although its notoriety is declining now. Musicaindustrial (talk) 08:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm all too aware of those quibbles! I'm not the biggest fan of the genre either; I also believe it strays from the "ideological" and musical core of what industrial should be... Nevertheless, to be fair, I think it should be mentioned in the article, either as part of the EBM section or as a separate subgenre. Musicaindustrial (talk) 16:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Goblin
Are you familiar with italian prog band Goblin? They composed the soundtracks for some classic Dario Argento movies... Musicaindustrial (talk) 07:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Lucky bastards! Musicaindustrial (talk) 17:08, 27 March 2009 (UTC)