User talk:Astatine-210/Archives/2009/June

Dear Mentor,
First, thank you for taking me on as your adoptee. Nice to meet you.

I need your advice concerning WP:WPOOK, which I've been coordinating. The set of pages the project concerns is listed at Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge and WikiProject Outline of knowledge, and has grown to about 500 articles in the encyclopedia.

The goals of the WikiProject are:


 * 1) Increase awareness of readers of the existence of the outlines on Wikipedia
 * 2) Complete the existing outlines
 * 3) Create an outline for every subject that is exensive enough to benefit from having an outline (core subjects and major or extensive fields).  There are thousands of these.
 * 4) Recruit as many editors to work on these as possible (we need thousands of editors working on these)
 * 5) Surpass portals in number by the end of the summer, and leave them in the dust by the end of the year
 * 6) Get the major outline subject areas displayed on the Main Page (in place of or in addition to the portal links at the top of the page)
 * 7) Increase the OOK to higher quality than Britannica's Outline of Knowledge (published in its Propaedia volume).

I was hoping you could comment on how to achieve the goals above.

Also I'm interested in every possible way of reaching readers and editors of Wikipedia. How can I get the most eyes and typing fingers on Wikipedia's outlines? Contacting editors directly without a reason relevant to them is spam, which I'd like to avoid. There are 75,000 regular editors on Wikipedia, and I want to contact all of them. So how do I do it? Directly or indirectly, I don't care which, piecemeal or all-at-once, all methods are fine with me. But I've got to find ways. I need your help.

I would also like to know how to find or attract editors to create new outlines. And I need advice on finding editors to help write the new outline article mentioned above (it needs to be fleshed out, completely referenced, and brought to featured article status).

Please recommend anyone you know who might be interested in sinking their teeth into a project like this. Or ways to reach groups of editors. Or ways to reach all editors. I welcome any and all recommendations and advice you might have.

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist 03:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

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Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009
The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits
Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.

This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Wikipedia, Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

On the bright side, you've got to see this...
To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.

Or go to WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

The big push
The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Wikipedia.

But it didn't stop there...

Welcome our new members...
The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.


 * Tarheel95 - going after the Main Page.
 * Vivio Testarossa / Feinoha - here to help.
 * Burningview - made a splash at MfD with WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Drafts/Outline of British Columbia (see the talk page for the MfD link - lots of support there).

Enter the mentors!
I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:


 * Strdst grl: Create and place project banners - already ✅
 * Strdst grl & The Earwig: put an animated ad for the project in WP:BANNER - Our graphics specialist Penubag is looking into it.
 * Strdst grl: Create a userbox for the project - assigned to Penubag.
 * Garden: Ask to have outlines added to next year's WikiCup competition - ✅ (proposal posted)
 * Tarheel95: Add a link to Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge to the Main Page - Tarheel95 is taking on the creation of the proposal
 * SriMesh: Create an outreach subpage to WPOOK - ✅ (invitation coming soon, see below)
 * SriMesh: (Create a newsletter archive subpage) - ✅
 * SriMesh: Add a feed to AlexNewArtBot to gather links to new outlines and post them on a page. Then personally invite new creators to the project. - who wants to tackle the feed?
 * SriMesh: Assign someone to monitor the outlines via watchlist, and invite new outline editors to the project - any volunteers?
 * Related: Create an invitation - Penubag is working on it.
 * SriMesh: Create Template:Expand outline similar to Template:Expand list, which adds each outline it is posted on to Category:Incomplete outlines, where editors (who are browsing the categories) can find them and work on them - to be assigned
 * SriMesh: Add the above template to incomplete outlines - upcoming AWB task
 * The Earwig: "Tell your wikifriends about it" - I've told mine, have you told yours?
 * The Earwig: "Collaborate with other WikiProjects" - we've been doing this from the start (each outline is associated with at least one other WikiProject).
 * : move the projected outline to a subpage of WP:WPOOK - ✅

Linking to outlines has begun
To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:


 * For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Wikipedia's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared. :(

Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines
Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!


 * Move navigational lists to portal namespace
 * Articles for deletion/Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics
 * Articles for deletion/Outline of South Africa
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic visual arts and design topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic mining topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic management topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic industrial topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic computer science topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic Canada topics
 * User talk:The Transhumanist/Archive 21
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Drafts/Outline of British Columbia
 * Talk:Switzerland
 * Outline of science converted to redirect by Dbachmann
 * Village pump (policy)/Archive 64
 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive193
 * Village pump (proposals)/Archive 47

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.

Table of contents to OOK-related stuff
Here's a directory of outline support pages:


 * Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge
 * Lists
 * WP:CLN
 * Stand-alone lists
 * Outlines
 * Why do we have outlines in addition to...?
 * Comparison of Wikipedia's and Britannica's outlines of knowledge
 * WP:WPOOK
 * WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Projected outline

Keep up the great work!
The Transhumanist 04:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta...
Thank you to those who suggested WPOOK have an animated advert banner. Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:



Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at User talk:Penubag.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 02:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration!
As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a draft this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

The Transhumanist 21:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mentor,
Thank you for your advice. We're putting it to good use.

I've run into a situation, and need your valuable insight.

One thing I've tried to do with respect to the outlines is place a hatnote on subject articles leading to that subject's corresponding outline.

Two people complained, and form the basis of consensus not to do it.

The main concern was quality: a hatnote shouldn't be placed unless the outline is of at least the same or higher quality than the article the hatnote is being placed on. That sets up a catch-22, since we need the best linking we can to attract readers and editors in the first place. The more traffic, the more feedback and changes.

So quality is the focus.

Please have a look at the outlines.

What are the biggest quality issues? What do the outlines need done to them in order to improve their quality?

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist 22:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...
I see both sides of the argument. I think you should list (not hatnote) the outline on the disambiguation page. Then, add a link in the "see also" section of the article. What do you think? at-210 discovered elements ∞ what am I? 20:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The consensus seems to be not to place a hatnote until the outline quality is high enough. In the meantime, the see also section will do.  I hadn't thought of the disambiguation page though.  Good idea.  The Transhumanist  21:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar
The Transhumanist 21:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK's advert banner is done!


Is it perfect? Can it be improved?

Penubag loves feedback. Please let him know if it can be further improved.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 23:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline update - Full Steam Ahead! - 06/18/2009
Several members of the WikiProject have been hard at work.

Buaidh has been building and refining the outlines on the U.S. States, the states' historical outlines, and the Historical outline of the United States. Lately, his edits have dominated the project's watchlist readout. (I think he's overdue for a barnstar or two. hint hint)

Penubag has been working on medals for all the main branches of the OOK, and has completed the OOK WikiProject's animated advert banner (see below).

Highfields has been filling in the currencies for each country on their respective outlines.

NuclearWarfare and Thehelpfulone have been busy with WP:AWB, posting banners and notices, and helping our sister project, the Index WikiProject, get established. Indexes work hand-in-hand with the outlines and are prominently linked to from the top of most of them. And the outlines, which serve as tables of contents, are only as good as the pages they link to.

Since we started integrating (linking) the OOK and its support pages into the encyclopedia and into the Wikipedia community, activity on outlines has been increasing. Though there's still much left to do.

But I digress. There are a couple more...

Welcome our new members! Stefan and MacMed
Stefan is building the Outline of sharks.

MacMed has joined our advanced wiki-tools team, and is currently adding links to outlines in the corresponding subject articles' see also sections.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and say "hi".

WPOOK's advert banner has gone live!
Penubag has finished this WikiProject's animated advert banner, and it is now being displayed on the Wikipedia ads template which in turn is displayed on about 2000 user pages. Each time someone access one of those pages, there is a 1 in 184 chance of them viewing this:

If you'd like to display the banner on your userpage locked-on to the ad as above, use the following code:

 

(By the way, it's been awhile since we've barnstarred Penubag).

Watchers needed!
If you haven't already, please add the entire project's watchlist to your watchlist. Here's how:


 * From the edit window, copy and paste WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist.


 * Or go to WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu in Wikipedia's sidebar on the left hand side of the screen.

Check the watchlist every time you log on!
I forgot to mention this step above. :)

The OOK is in 5 other Wikipedias?
I can't make heads or tails of 'em, but these links were on Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge:


 * ar:ويكيبيديا:مواضيع أساسية
 * fa:پورتال:فهرست موضوعات پایه
 * pl:Przegląd dziedzin wiedzy
 * pt:Portal:Conteúdo/Esboço do conhecimento
 * zh-yue:基礎課題表清單

Resurrected from the grave yard...
I discovered an AfD discussion on possibly the first article named "Outline of", which was called Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics, and which was created 4 years ago. Of course they deleted it. But now it has many friends, and so it has risen from the dead. :)

See the DRV discussion at Deletion review/Log/2009 June 7.

A diamond buried in project space

 * When G716 found the page "Learn" tucked away as a subpage of the Probability WikiProject, he thought "This deserves to be in the article space", and moved it to the encyclopedia. See Outline of probability.

Recruiting
Recruiters needed. Drop me a note if you are interested.

Advice from the mentors

 * Astatine-210, Strdst grl, and Willscrlt - link to the outlines from the corresponding subject articles' see also sections - this is underway by MacMed (non-country outlines) and User talk:NuclearWarfare (counry outlines).
 * Astatine-210 - add a link to the outlines to the disambiguation pages of the corresponding subjects - good idea. Since "Outline" is just the type of page, not the subject, I think these might qualify for inclusion on disambiguation pages. We need someone to look into the relevant guidelines on this.
 * SimonTrew - provide a badge (userbox) for WPOOK members to add to their user pages - Penubag will have one for us soon.
 * Zachary crimsonwolf - create a card explaining outlines, and send it to everyone you know, and make it viral (by including a request for the recipients to send the card to everyone they know) - this task has been split in three:
 * Creation of a "thank you for your interest" card which introduces (explains) outlines, to send to queriers, new participants to discussions, those who seem to be confused about outlines, etc.
 * Creation of a thank you card / invitation to the WPOOK, to send to users we see working on outlines, including a request for them to invite others whom they think might be interested


 * weebiloobil - contact Wikignomes - OK...
 * 3. Creation of an invitation to Wikignomes, with a brief rundown on the types of tasks there are for them to do on the outlines. The invitation will include a request for them to invite anyone they think would enjoy working on outlines.


 * weebiloobil - add examples to Outlines - more examples will be added as suitable outlines are completed
 * weebiloobil - add a picture to Outlines (it doesn't have to be relevant), to provide atmosphere and to break it up visually and add a splash of color - will do, and we'll add a caption to make it relevant, with a link to the outline on that subject. Thank you for the idea.
 * Zachary crimsonwolf - ask Jimbo Wales to bestow the award(s) for the country outlines contest, once you get it going first - we'll give that a try
 * Zachary crimsonwolf - ask everyone in the project to inform their acquaintances around Wikipedia about the OOK - will do, as soon as the cards
 * UzEE - collaborate with all the WikiProjects you share scope with - we've placed a banner on their talk pages, and have placed task notices on some. We'll be posting more tasks, and plan to create a section on contents system development and maintenance for each WikiProject page itself.
 * SriMesh - if you can't get outlines added to next year's WikiCup, then create your own WikiCup-like contest - there's 6 months left to this year to address reservations and work out the details at WikiCup. In the meantime, there's the 200-WikiProject contest, which needs input.

More outline tasks

 * WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Drafts/Outline of chocolate draft - our current outline collaboration!
 * Outline of psychology - someone moved a big chunk of this article to the talk page, leaving a big gap in the outline. Editors are needed to add subheadings and links.
 * See also links - add (where "x" is the subject) to the see also section of the corresponding subject article of each outline

New outlines in article space

 * Outline of sharks - under construction in article space
 * Outline of Hinduism (converted from "List of Hinduism-related topics")

New outline drafts

 * Outline of chocolate
 * Outline of Christianity

Main discussion pages

 * Wikipedia talk:Outlines
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Outline of knowledge
 * Portal talk:Contents/Outline of knowledge

Keep up the great work
I'm impressed with the level of enthusiasm and work going into the outlines. I'm proud to be working with each of you.

The Transhumanist 22:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

your opinion on an article
hi,

ive written 2 articles one in english and the other in marathi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/निर्माण_शैक्षणिक_प्रक्रिया.

firstly i wrote a marathi article in english wiki. so then i translated it in english but it still has a marathi link :). the marathi article is at http://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/निर्माण_शिक्षण_प्रक्रिया

do let me know your opinion about these and how they can be improved.

Wikipdya (talk) 07:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration #2: Outline of Gibraltar
This outline is approaching completion.

I added a bunch more links, finding them with the following Google site-specific searches of Wikipedia:
 * "of" and "Gibraltar"


 * "in" and "Gibraltar"


 * "for" and "Gibraltar"


 * with "Gibraltar" not at the end

(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Gibraltar" with any other country or region name).

Request: please redirect the redlinks! (bluelinking...)
The redlinks need to be bluelinked where possible. The most useful way is to create redirects leading to the material (which is usually included in a section of an article - see Redirect. That way, when the redirect pages are replaced by the actual articles, the links will already point to the right places.

Please take a crack at it, and bluelink a few.

Thank you.

Good luck.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist 01:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: on an unrelated matter, where should the Outline of chocolate be placed on the OOK? -TT

I finally got to whack somebody with a trout!
That was fun. :)

The Transhumanist 23:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

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Outline update - Push push push - 06/25/2009
Work is proceeding apace...


 * Julian is working on getting a bot account (and he delivered this update as his trial run).
 * Penubag is working on the Project page and upcoming contest.
 * Buaidh is developing all of the U.S. state historical outlines.
 * Tarheel95 is writing a proposal to add a link to the Main Page leading to the the OOK.
 * Highfields is integrating the OOK into the encyclopedia by deorphanizing outlines by placing a main link in the see also section of the subject articles that have a corresponding outline.
 * I've been trying to keep up with them. :)


 * New members


 * Minnecologies - developing Outline of forestry and is watching the big picture.
 * Mnation2 - improving Outline of Lebanon


 * Hatnotes

The current consensus is that we can't place a hatnote leading to an outline at the top of a subject articles unless the outline being presented is of at least the same quality-level as the article.


 * What's next...

Improve outline quality by completing them.

Place hatnotes for the outlines of high enough quality.

Guidelines pertaining to outlines need to be updated. Outlines emerged as a class of pages only a few months ago, and most of the relevant guidelines don't cover them specifically. For example, Stand-alone lists is incredibly out of date.

Invite wikignomes, wikielves, and wikifairies (all 2500+ of them) to help on the outlines.

Identify 600 more subjects with coverage extensive enough to justify outlines, create rudimentary drafts for them, and post notices to the corresponding WikiProjects and subject talk pages to help build them.

Convert outlines titled "List of" to outline articles, and add them to the OOK. There are a few hundred of these. Conversion instructions are needed.

Add a description of outlines to About Wikipedia and Basic navigation, and add tips about outlines to the WP:TOTD and Tips library.


 * Keep up the great work!

The Transhumanist 20:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for feedback
Minnecologies has done an incredible amount of work on Outline of forestry and posted a note to me on my talk page requesting feedback.

I've posted my observations at Talk:Outline of forestry.

Please take a look at the outline and let Minnecologies know what you think of it on the outline's talk page.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 19:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Delivered by JCbot (talk) at 20:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC).

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