User talk:Atavi

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I did wonder how people did this Atavi 20:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC) ~ .... Thanks nathan. Before creating this account I had done a number of edits unsigned, and had created another account, for which I have forgotten both user name and password. Atavi 20:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Messages about images (fair use or other) archived
I archived any messages I received about images I uploaded as they seemed to take too much space in the talk page and don't offer much. Most of the messages were warnings on mistaken err use of the "fair use" rationale on my part. You can find all these messages in an archive. I've left the rest my talk messages in the present page. With the exception of this note, they are in the original chronological order with absolutely no cleanup.--Atavi (talk) 23:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

User box
Thanks to User:Rfrisbie for "Userfying" a box of mine to User:Rfrisbie/Userbox/Sum

Library of congress
It depends. This image I didn't uploaded myself. It already was in commons, so I assumed they already checked it's copyright status there. Not all the images of the library of congress are in the public domain. See also commons:Template talk:PD-LOC and the links provided on Image:Igor Stravinsky.jpg for more information on this. Like the copyright notice on the Library of Congress site Garion96 (talk) 13:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I couldn't determine copyright status for the photo I was referring to (http://www.loc.gov/rr/perform/guide/mu016001.jpg) but you gave me a hint to just search the commons for Aaron Copland, and they had another photo.
 * Glad you found a good image. Another quick way to find images is to click on the German wikipedia link. (if the article has a german version) The German wikipedia doesn't allow fair use images. Like in this case, the German wikipedia already had that image you found for a while on their article. Garion96 (talk) 17:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Rogerwilco
Hi Atavi! I undid your edit on the RogerWilco page regarding the name apparently being based on the Roger Wilco (Space Quest) game. Please don't take offense, but I couldn't find anything to support that theory. It seems much more likely that the name of VoIP "radio" software (as characterized by the program's use of old fashioned radios) is simply based on radio voice procedure. As far as I can see, Roger Wilco (Space Quest) did not feature any voice communication features, and the article suggests that the name of the game itself is also based off the radio voice protocol.

If you have some reputable sources indicating that the RogerWilco VoIP app is indeed named after the above mentioned game, then please readd the link with a citation to the source. Thanks! --Battlehamster 19:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Battlehamster. No offence taken. I looked at the radio voice procedure link, and I must admit that you must be right. In all probability the program name is based on the radio voice protocol (as is the name of the game). I am only embarassed that I had no idea (about wilco being part of the protocol), and that's the reason I immediately made the connection to the only familiar thing. :)


 * Cheers, Atavi 19:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Sandinistas
Talk:Sandinista_National_Liberation_Front

As a side note, one can say that the Nicaraguans were completely justified in throwing the Somoza regime out of office for their years of brutality and authoritarianism while at the same time criticize the FSLN leadership for being puppets of Moscow. The two are not mutually exclusive. Far too often revolutionary movements have been hijacked by individuals whose only aim was power, not the betterment of the people.

Later. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 19:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as brutality and authoritarianism goes, I am not convinced. As far as I know brutality was Contras territory. I am sure that in an armed conflict, both sides must have committed acts of brutality, but to blame the Santinistas for systemic power thirst goes too far. Now, for authoritarianism, I can't have an informed opinion.
 * Atavi 09:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

"Atavi", It is nice to see that you are "not convinced" of the Sandinista's brutality. But the thousands of victims that suffered the brunt of Sandinista brutality cannot afford the luxury you have. You do not care that even the leftist and anti-American Amnesty International and the United Nations Human Rights Commission have documented Sandinsita atrocities. The Nicaraguan Commission of Jurists states that the Sandinistas carried out over 8,000 executions within the first three years of the revolution. The Sandinista prison "Las Tejas" was the site of beatings, sleep deprivation, and torture with electric shocks on political prisoners. The Sandinitas imprisoned and killed over 15,000 Miskito Indians through the forced relocation of these indigenous people. By contrast, the Somoza regime never interfered with and even ignored the Miskito Indians. During the Somoza years, Nicaraguan emigration was a trickle comparable to other Latin American nations. Once the Sandinistas seized power, Nicaraguan emigration was a flood of panicked humanity fleeing the new "marxist utopia". Thousands of Nicaraguans that dared to defend their private property from Sandinita thieves were imprisoned, tortured and executed by these totalitarian marxist criminals. Whereas the respect for private property was a core feature of the Somoza years. Sandinista street terror-gangs called "turbas divinas" would beat and maim Nicaraguan protesters, dissenters, and anyone deemed a "threat" by the communist commisars. Sandinista CDS (Comite de Defensa Sandinista) units would serve as neighborhood block spy cells to monitor and report people's movements, speech, associations, or anything suspicious to the Sandinista communist masters. Whereas as under Somoza there was no equivalent to these totalitarian trappings. Under Somoza there was freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to travel, and freedom of religion; as the Sandinistas would never have seized power were it not for their skillful exploitation of these freedoms. During the Somoza years many newspapers and journalists were staunchly anti-Somoza, such as  the martyred journalist Pedro Chamorro. The number of free independent newspapers and/or journalists during the Sandinista dictatorship is zero. You deny that the Sandinistas had a "systemic thirst for power". While the average Nicaraguan lived in squalor, Sandinista commandantes pilfered millions into their foreign bank accounts and lived like the marxist millionaires they were. While the children of average Nicaraguans--any boy capable of holding a rifle--were robbed of their innocence through the forced conscription into the Sandinista Army, the children  of Sandinista commisars were exempt from conscription and enjoyed a luxurious pampered childhood. The Sandinistas imposed a rigid class system where these rich Sandinista kingpins were the "nomenklatura" privileged class lording it over their captive masses. This is the Sandinista's idea of "equality". While communist guerrilla war-mongers--like the Sandinistas--are sanitized and lionized by leftists everywhere, anti-communist guerrillas need to be demonized and discredited by agitprop about "brutality" and "war crimes" etc. Simply put, whenever the rebel forces are marxist-leninist then leftists ignore brutality, atrocities and war crimes. But when the rebel forces are anti-communist or pro-american (like the Contras) then leftists open the gates of propaganda about "savage brutality and war crimes etc." The only reason the Nicaraguan elections were finally held in 1990 was because the Contra rebels had the Sandinista communists hammered and frustrated. The net result of Contra guerrilla warfare is free and fair elections. The net result of Sandinista guerrilla warfare is reducing Nicaragua to a marxist gulag and more than 10 years of totalitarian brutality, plundering, and misery. You will never admit the truth about the Sandinista communist monsters you defend, but the KGB itself was much more honest about the FSLN's function. KGB files recently revealed by Vasili Mitrokhin state that the Soviet's orientation for the FSLN (Sandinistas) was as a "sabotage-terrorism group" True to their genesis, sabotaging and terrorizing the Nicaraguan people is what the Sandinistas do best. "130.65.109.39 01:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)"


 * Now then. I won't claim to know all the facts about Nicaragua, but I do wonder whence you get your facts. Secondly, why do I warrant a long paragraph about the Sandinistas? As far as I can remember, I haven't made any controversial edits. This discussion started because in the talk page and in the article itself I doubted the authority of Mitrokhin's testimony, but this is the most substantial contribution I remember to have made regarding the Sandinistas. About the Contras, I've added reliable references about CIA drug money -declassified US documents- and not much else. Why am I so important then, so as to write this long paragraph?
 * If all you say about the Sandinistas is true, then you have a point. But you seem to make a saint out of Somoza as well.
 * Are you from Nicaragua I wonder? Because you seem to know a lot and be completely convinced about it, indicating that you have first hand experience.
 * --Atavi 07:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you on typo
Thank you for pointing the typo out. A Wang (talk/contrb.) 13:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Coin image on Ancient Macedonians
Hi, thanks for your addition, but sorry, I'm going to revert it. Point is, the inscription on the coin is just Standard Koine Greek, i.e. basically Attic (the form "βασιλέως" occurs only in the Attic dialect and no other form of Greek). The local speech of the population, whether it was Greek or not, would have been different in any case. That the ruling elites of Macedon were using Attic/Koine for official purposes is not in doubt, but that has very little relevance for the question of the ethnicity and linguistic identity of the population at large. Fut.Perf. 0 08:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * While I understand and concur with your point, I don't understand why the image has to be removed. In the article ruling class is also discussed.-Atavi 09:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Want to re-introduce it with a clearer caption? Perhaps something like "Coin of Philip V, inscribed 'ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΥ', illustrating the official use of Koine Greek in Macedon". You're right, there should really be no objection to that. (Sorry again for the quick revert, maybe I was reacting more to your edit summary than to the picture as such.) Fut.Perf. 0 09:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You're quite right that my edit summary was a bit misleading to say the least. As for the caption I think your suggestion is pretty much as good as a caption as any. Only matter now, the exact location of the image on the article. I placed it on the top, but perhaps it doesn't belong there.--Atavi 09:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Let's put it in the "Language and writing" section then, where it's close to the relevant discussion? Fut.Perf. 0 09:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's a good suggestion. I will go forward with it then. -Atavi 09:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You were quicker than me. :-). I'm glad we could quickly find an understanding. I hope our wikipedia paths cross again...-Atavi 09:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, thanks for solving this in such a good collaborative spirit. Fut.Perf. 0 09:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

King Leon
I noticed your redirected the King Leon article to Leonidas I, which is incorrect as thats his grandson, so fixing. Highlandlord 00:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * OK. Thanks for the correction. -Atavi 03:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

ανπρθογραφίες
True! I had misspelled "misspellings". Thanks!--Michkalas 13:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

iran-contra, drug links
hi -- good to know someone is out there working on iran-contra.

i deleted the unsourced statements because 1) they had been up for a month without any backing, 2) they contradict the topic of the subsection, which is "contra drug links." if the heading were something else, then fine 3) the statements are self-contradictory. for instance, if the Hitz report confirmed contra drug links, in what way is it a whitewash? and 4) statements like "most of the Iran Contra scandal personalities were pardoned by President Reagan[citation needed] and then resurrected by the George W Bush administration" are plainly made up. according to the rest of the article, it was Bush who pardoned Cap Weinberger, not Reagan. and John Negroponte is the only figure of significance serving in the current administration. and 6) POV is obvious in "whitewash" "problematic" and "ill-fated endeavor"

now, the other parts of that section i thought were fine. but the last paragraph just doesn't seem salvagable.

i sympathize with your effort to be patient and neutral towards yr fellow users, but we are all the authors of this piece, n'est-ce pas? and when i author things, i have sources up front. don't we all? Davidstaniunas 18:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi!
 * In the end I agree with you.
 * POV is a serious problem in the paragraph.
 * When anyone writes something, he or she is expected to be able to back it up immediately with sources.
 * As you say, I was trying to be patient.
 * I think the paragraph can be deleted, but there are two facts mentioned there that can be salvaged; the pardon by Bush -and not Reagan as you point out- that is sourced; the death of Webb. I am not a coroner, but when anyone hears of two gunshots to the head, they have to wonder how a person was able to shoot oneself twice in such a vital spot.
 * I'm glad too that you're there working to make the article better.

--Atavi 10:14, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Aye, I've been back to Iran-Contra once or twice since September and noted the changes. Seems like little apart from your edits to drug links has happened. Lot of heat in the talk page; no light. I really think there needs to be a better skeleton, moving chronologically as events happened, not as we discovered events. So that instead of every I-C revelation being written as, "On X date in 1992, so-and-so testified that this happened in 1985," we can write "In 1985, this happened" and just source it.
 * I think the best possible outcome for I-C is for it to be an accounting of events, strictly Iran-Contra events, and for things like "fallout," "questions," "current members of the administration" to just be linked to on separate pages. To my mind, something like drug links should have its own page (wait, it does doesn't it) and should just be linked to under "See Also."
 * I've been looking at the Walsh report, trying to put together a timeline.
 * Anyway, good luckDavidstaniunas 19:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Note:replied on David's talk page.--Atavi 18:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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Thanks for picking up on interpretive comment! (Mahler)
Hi Atavi

I think I'm posting in the right place to send you a message - I'm a new user, so many apologies if I'm in the wrong place (and feel free to delete if I am).

Just wanted to say thanks for picking up on my edit - yes it is pretty interpretive: I hadn't noticed because I was aiming at undoing the presentation of the opposing view as unquestioned fact.

I'm worried though that you will think I'm either an Alma-fan or simply a feminist, with no musical/biographical interest in Mahler - and that I'm posting with removing misogynist views as my only agenda. Actually I have no interest in Alma - I'm writing my Musicology PhD on Gustav. I just believe that the traditional musicological attitude towards Alma actually gets in the way of any kind of sensible understanding of Gustav's life - and music. I think the accusation that Alma's behaviour is meddling and petty either needs to be seen as a historical phenomenon itself --- and needs contextualizing, or should be felt to be too messy an issue to handle in a short biography of Gustav.

So I've gone back and suggested losing the description "petty" altogether - as I think it's probably simplest. What do you think?

multi-wall

Barry Seal page
Thanks for wokingon the Barry Seal page. You'll find that a lot of useful material was removed (vandalized) by TDC and his Admin pal, MONGO. E.g., look at this early page for Barry Seal, and tell me if it is not more informative than what is on there now:  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barry_Seal&oldid=54076731 Search a little more for TDC, and you'll find that he's a vandal who has repeatedly had his editing privileges revoked. Why he's still allowed to edit at all is beyond me. Thanks for your help.

Eliasson
Thanks :) Schissel | Sound the Note! 19:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi, Atavi. Thanks for your advise and I will do my best in Wikipedia!(Addaick 10:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC))

Changes in Scheherazade(Rimsky-Korsakov)
Hi, Atavi. I have seen your change about instrumentation. I think that you should state more clear about "solo violin". Because the requirment of solo violin here is different from normal violin concerto. Thanks.(Addaick 14:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC))

Takemitsu
Hey I was thinking the same thing actually, I was just sort of beginning to get annoyed with people deleting it just because they seemed to think it was untrue... I meant to finish the article ages ago but it's a large task and I'm really busy. Thanks for the advice though, I think you're right.

Matt.kaner 18:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Pol Pot
Pol's aliases are now cited; to be specific, his aliases are listed in the Dramatis Personae at the end of Philip Short's book about him. Thanks for pointing this out.

Origamikid 18:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Category:Wake Forest University faculty
A tag has been placed on Category:Wake Forest University faculty requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. MuzikalNotes (talk) 22:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Providing documents to Wikipedia
Another user User:JohnAThornton ( talk,contribs) needs help providing documents and evidence to Wikipedia:see Talk:Stradivarius. I took the liberty of asking for help myself.--Atavi (talk) 11:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It appears that Mr. Thornton wants to upload images; he can do this by typing Wikipedia:Upload in the left hand search box or by clicking "upload file" in the "toolbox" just below the search box.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 13:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Charles Philippe Lafont/Temp
Thanks for attempting to salvage Charles Philippe Lafont. I have moved the stub you provided to the article namespace; however, I am concerned that it may not adequately assert the notability of its subject. Would it be possible for you to expand it? If not, I'm afraid it's possible that it may be deleted within the next few days. &mdash; madman bum and angel 07:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Your ballet articles crossposted to and from User talk:Robertgreer
Hello Robertgreer. I've got some reservations about some ballet articles you have created. This started when I noticed you added a note to the article Romeo and Juliet (Prokofiev) about Romeo + Juliet (ballet). I have an issue with the latter, in that there doesn't seem to be anything to signify that this is anything other than a production of the original. I am implying that perhaps a separate article is not warranted.

With this as as starting point I took a look at your contributions; one other thing I noticed was the Les noces thing. You created an article titled Les Noces (ballet). I took the liberty of moving the article to Les Noces (Robbins), as I thought that the title was confusing. I haven't decided what to do yet with the Les Noces (ballet) article, which currently redirects to the Robbins article, but perhaps it shouldn't. Also, the same issue I have with Romeo + Juliet (ballet) applies here too: does it warrant a separate article? perhaps a note in the article Les noces will do.

I am usually an "inclusionist" and I am by no means not an expert on ballet. So I haven't tagged the articles for deletion. But I do have my doubts and urge you to consider adding material to the two articles and any similar articles in order to establish the identity or notability, if you will, of the subject matter.

Regards,

--Atavi 12:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * PS:I hope you have not taken offense at anything I've written or done. If so, I apologize in advance.--Atavi 12:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No offense taken, your suggestions (and tact) are appreciated, and I will explain. But first, I will go you one better and move Les Noces (Robbins) to Les Noces (Robbins ballet); this manner of naming was suggested by a Wikipedia administrator who's a graduate librarian from Rutgers and graciously saved a ballet stub I created from premature deletion.


 * The ballet articles I've created have mainly to do with New York City Ballet, which I attend regularly. Too regularly, but it's a cheap thrill at $15 a seat; make it a date for $30. Here's the rub: there are fewer than a dozen people writing about ballet on Wikipedia, City Ballet is the largest company in the U.S. and has the largest rep. of any company in the world.


 * Their active rep. is over a hundred ballets, so it's a juggling act; write more about fewer ballets or less about more? In the beginning I've opted for the latter, though I know it's contrary to the general Wikipedia mindset. Here's why:


 * (1) If there are any latent writers of Wikipedia ballet articles perhaps these stubs (which I've meticuluously categorized and marked on their discussion pages as part of WikiProject Ballet) they might act as a honey pot and get somebody else to expand upon them.


 * (2) George Balanchine, the (co)founder of City Ballet, had the humility to subordinate the dance to the music; then again his regular collaborator was Igor Stravinsky. Balanchine was a superb musician in his own right, having studied piano in conservatory the same time he was learning to dance (and even played for ballet classes before graduating). He occasionally conducted orchestra rehearsals at City Ballet (only in case of illness on the part of the scheduled conductor) but according to all reports could perfectly well have conducted the performances. Here's where Wiki. comes in; out of respect for the music he gave most of his works the title of the music. This does not make the encyclopedist's life any the easier. just for Tschaikovsky (this is the way Mr. B. and City Ballet spell it) one has:


 * Tschaikovsky Pas de Deux
 * Tschaikovsky Pas de Quatre
 * Tschaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 2
 * Tschaikovsky Suite No. 1
 * Tschaikovsky Suite No. 2
 * Tschaikovsky Suite No. 3


 * These are not the only works of Tschaikovsky to which he made dances, just those that begin with the composer's name. Then one has:


 * Symphonic Dances
 * Symphonie Concertante
 * Symphony in C
 * Symphony in E Flat
 * Symphony in Three Movements
 * Symphony No. 1
 * Symphony No. 6 Pathetique


 * The result is a lot of disambiguation -- hence Les Noces (Robbins ballet) -- etc. And because of sniping from some very tactless, seemingly ignorant -- and seemingly unaware of their own ignorance -- Wiki. users it became imperative to post at least stubs for those that were ambiguously titled.


 * (3) Are any of Balanchine's ballets insignificant? Not any of those that are still being danced; the Balanchine Foundation has on staff a dozen or so repetiteurs, former principal dancers who danced the ballets, usually under Mr. B. himself, know all the roles and the interpretations. Ballet companies other than City Ballet -- which maintains an unbroken Balanchine tradition the way that the Royal Danish Ballet maintains Bournonville -- interestingly Nikolaj Hubbe will leave NYCB and return to Copenhagen as ballet master -- must bring in a repetiteur (the foundation dispenses with the French diacriticals, while retaining the s of Tschaikovsky) to obtaining performing rights.


 * (4) Are any of Balanchine's successors' ballets insignificant? None of those made by John Taras or Jerome Robbins that are still being danced; it's a bit more difficult to say for current ballet master in chief Peter Martins or choregrapher in residence Christopher Wheeldon; but Wikipedia's guiding principles however say that we should remain wholly objective and withhold judgement!


 * Personally, I could leave out a dozen or so dances in City Ballet's rep. that aren't as significant as the rest, but this would be untrue to Wiki. Objectively speaking, any ballet being danced by the largest ballet company in the US, founded by the most important choreographer of the XX century, is significant -- whether I like it or not. Certainly more significant than my namesake Mark Greer -- we are not related -- a school district bandmaster from Michigan whom is the subject of an article being drafted by an ignoramus who suggested deleting the page which the ex-Rutgers librarian so gallantly saved (see Talk:Romeo and Juliet (Lavery ballet).)


 * (5) Is it possible to imbed City Ballet -- or other modern ballet -- entries in existing music or dance entries? I tried and immediately found them being deleted by people who from all appearances knew nothing about dance (see Revision history of Afternoon of a Faun (ballet); this I did not even try to reverse, the vandal not having loggged in and looking at the I.P. from which they came it being clear that they could not be talked to sensibly.)


 * There is too much work to be done (whether writing more about each ballet or writing about more ballets) to get engaged in undo or edit wars or lengthy arguments (this is a particular and peculiar exception because you are the most thoughtful correspondent I've encountered.)


 * (6) A future problem will be the growth of the ballet stubs in to full size articles and not necessarily of the sort that Wiki. editors and administrators admire. I've discussed this with choreographers, ballet masters, repetiteurs, (major) ballet teachers, dancers with both major ballet companies as well as other companies here and in Northern Europe, and the concencus is that cast lists and lists of ballets in the rep. are the most important articles to the dance world.


 * We can all look up in the NY Times who danced it on opening night, but what about the second cast? The third? What about last minute cast changes (often due to injury; except for concussions ballet is right up there with football)? As my high school journalism teacher would've asked, who danced what with whom and when and where?


 * At this point the tail will be wagging the dog, and somebody or other will go and delete everything to do with the Robbins' Les Noces about the time I add the third cast of the fourth revival (see item 5, paragraph 2.) But this is exactly the information that my friends in the professional dance world consider most important and yet, without the facilities of Wikipedia, most ephemeral.


 * (6) Romeo + Juliet (ballet) was Peter Martins' major re-thinking of the Prokofiev score. (The music is a given in ballet, this being I suspect one reason that some contemporary dancers try to dance without music; as a theatre guy I have no problem being in an interpretive art form, but some of the modern dance choreographers don't see it that way.) But the fact that a piece of music has had a ballet made to it does not mean that all other, later dances are less important (in fact many of what we think of as canonical ballets are themselves the second or third settings of the music!) Ballet, unlike the opera, is not a museum art form (make that mausoleum.) It's alive and well:


 * If one Googles "Les noces" Nijinska one finds 16,300 "hits"; if one Googles "Les noces" Robbins one finds 37,300 "hits"!


 * (9) Finally, do I know whereof I speak? I am a member of the Society of Stage Directors and Choreographers and Actors' Equity Association, am a full-time faculty member at City University of New York, am a former singer with the Boston Symphony Orchestra and Tanglewood Festival Chorus (sang for Bernstein, Ozawa, Colin Davis, Klaus Tennstedt), have received grants fromt the Danish government to translate some of the plays I've directed (I speak fluent Swedish -- have directed their best playwrights' works, Kristina Lugn among them -- less than fluent Norwegian as well and do a little inter-Wiki editing; WikiProject Echo, Danish Dance Theatre), and perhaps most significantly have taken ballet class for twenty years with David Howard (who teaches much of American Ballet Theatre), Willy Burman (ditto City Ballet), Nancy Bielski (any of the ABT or NYCB dancers who don't take with David or Willy) and David's three proteges; Peter Schabel, Paul Estabrook and Alex Tressor, who patiently taught me as a much-too-old beginner and got me up to taking professional class, even if I don't quite belong there; were I unaware of this fact I would not have any business taking the 10 a.m. class.)


 * Why am I spending any time at all -- far too much time -- documenting neo-classical and contemporary ballet (and a little Scandinavian modern dance) on Wikipedia? Because it won't get documented otherwise. The alternative is to set up a dance website, Wiki or other, but to do so would be to re-invent the wheel, which I will do only with great reluctance if Wikipedia proves too hostile.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertgreer (talk • contribs)


 * Robertgreer, first of all I want to thank you for taking the time to provide such an enlightening reply to me. I have already said I am not a ballet expert, but I am interested in it, so your reply made quite an interesting read. I am honoured also, to discuss with a person of your expertise; of course I knew before that you knew what you're talking about — I didn't have any doubts.
 * To the point now: you've got me convinced. I still wish those articles could contain more material, but I'm willing to wait for it ...
 * All of your points were excellent, but your second (6) point was especially convincing. It made me rethink and reminded me of the different productions of Swan Lake (how original, eh...?): the original, the Petipa, the subsequent productions. The first (6) point is also compelling, and we could only get such insight from someone like you. It's good to have you on WP.
 * As you say, there's too much work to be done on ballet articles. I wish you well on your wikipedia expeditions. From the Wikipedia point of view, I don't think you're spending too much time on Ballet on Wikipedia; from your own point of view, you could obviously find more creative things to do and I wish there was someone else to do the work you're doing.
 * As a sidenote, I would just like to remind you to sign your posts for readability's sake. Also, regarding dates in wp,there are display options for dates (I'm using this feature), and having the dates written out in standard format facilitates this.
 * Regards,
 * --Atavi 12:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking the time to read what I wrote! It was useful to organize my thoughts and have a sympathetic ear for them. There will be more on each ballet, added as they are performed; but not every dance shows up every season (there are two seasons each year, winter and spring, but even so it takes time when you're dealing with hundreds!)


 * It's interesting you mention Swan Lake. Kenneth MacMillan and John Cranko both studied with Frederick Ashton and both made Swan Lakes. MacMillan's is the one better known in the US and probably seen more in the West nowadays than the Petipa. The Joffrey is the only major company that dances the Cranko here. Some years ago they did so for two weeks at the NY State Theater while the American Ballet Theatre was dancing it at the Metropolitan Opera House right across the Lincoln Center plaza. On nights that Makarova was Juliet I did standing room at ABT; otherwise it was the Joffrey, and the Cranko is definitely the better.


 * On MacMillan's side, his ballet Mayerling, based on the double suicide of the heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and his very young, very decadent mistress, is his masterpiece and never seen except at the Royal Ballet, London. I saw three performances in two days last year on Spring break (I'm not a rich man but can rent a room for ten pounds a night in the East End from a character actress -- and a room in Stockholm for about the same from the retired professsor who was my ex-Swedish teacher's Swedish teacher.) Hence my exposure to Northern European dance. Mayerling is available on DVD (Darcy Bussell, recently retired as a principal dancer but at that time still a soloist, dances the role of Mitzy, the crown prince's ordinary mistress.) This is not The Nutcracker -- boy, has that one got a complicated history -- and Mayerling is decidedly not suitable viewing for children.


 * As this is probably the last time I will write you, allow me to confess that twenty years ago my best friend -- a college schoolmate and good ballerina though she's now got an MBA and makes ten times what I do -- asked me whether I wanted to meet the most beautiful women in New York. I said, "Yes," and she said, "Take ballet class." I did and haven't dated any woman since whom I have not met in class.


 * I always log in and count on Wiki. to auto-date my entries, a bad habit, one of my many. Robert Greer 14:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * As I said, it was very interesting to read what you had to say and this also goes to your whole last entry.
 * It's not often that I attend ballet performances. I could probably list all of the performances I've seen, which presumably you can't.:-) I certainly I wish I could see more.
 * At some point I think I'll incorporate the bits about Swan Lake in the article, if I can find sources.
 * I will probably buy Mayerling (eventually)
 * Best,
 * --Atavi 20:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * As I said, it was very interesting to read what you had to say and this also goes to your whole last entry. It's not often that I attend ballet performances. I could probably list all of the performances I've seen, which presumably you can't.:-) I certainly I wish I could see more. At some point I think I'll incorporate the bits about Swan Lake in the article, if I can find sources. I will probably buy Mayerling (eventually) Best, --Atavi 20:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the tweaking and especially for restoring the Rushton / Kobburg Afternoon of a Faun! Robert Greer 21:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, the anonymous user 82.169.148.34 who previously deleted the Rushton / Kobborg from Afternoon of a Faun has done so again with the same explanation, word for word, as before; "This article is about the NIJINSKY ballet, the many others who made choreographies for this piece of music don't belong here" (it's good to know that they have mastered copy and paste.) Don't waste your time trying to fix this or reason with them. They appear to have no knowledge of ballet, having written about Chess, the Chess World Cup 2007, Evgeny Alekseev?, Robert Bresson?, Elliott Carter?, Lenier Dominguez?, Vladimir Kramnik?, FC Barcelona?, Pierre Boulez, Alexander Scriabin?, Max Blumenthal?, Giancarlo Antognoni? and Indonesia?. I am assuming that there is only one user logging on from the I.P. A conventional whois query refers one to www.ripe.net/whois which reports:


 * descr:  www.easyw.nl
 * country: NL
 * status: ASSIGNED PA
 * mnt-by: WOLTECH-MNT
 * source: RIPE # Filtered
 * tech-c: SK2119-RIPE
 * person: Saglain Khan
 * address: Easyway
 * address: Ged. Burgwal 72
 * address: 2512 BV Den Haag
 * address: Netherlands
 * phone:  +31 30 2483500
 * fax-no: +31 70 3492999
 * e-mail: 
 * nic-hdl: SK2119-RIPE
 * remarks: send an abuse notifications ONLY to: 


 * Saglain Khan is presumably an adminstrator for the I.S.P. and not the party responsible. Robert Greer (talk) 02:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed myself that the user 82.169.148.34 did that. I don't have the energy for an edit war, and as you say it doesn't seem like one can discuss with this person.--Atavi (talk) 18:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Life's too short for edit wars. I've got twelve pair of tickets for City Ballet (grand total $380 including $20 annual membership which entitles one to half price); the first two performances in January, five at the end of the month and five more in February. And will probably buy more when they announce casting (they do so two weeks in advance). They're up in the fourth ring, oxygen mask territory, but are great seats, row F on the aisle!


 * Rows A and B are very nice but three times as expensive. Rows C, D and E pretty much sell out at full price to season ticket holders before the 50% discount kicks in, but row F aisle is better than any but the same seats in row D or E. A friend of mine did luck out and get single tickets at half price in D, but I'm buying a pair each night and more or less own F2 and F4.


 * Row A and C are very nice (as would be row A second or third ring, though I'll take row F aisle seats over row B, even in the third ring.) One must, however, reconcile ones champagne tastes with his beer budget. Robert Greer (talk) 17:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, you hit the nail with the last comment. Anyway, I'm happy that you can find joy in this gift to us that ballet is.
 * I live somewhere where not many ballets are staged every year. So, I'm kind of envious of you. I've emailed you; I hope you don't mind--Atavi (talk) 13:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Feel free to do so! Robert Greer (talk) 10:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Notability of David Horne (composer)
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on David Horne (composer), by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because David Horne (composer) seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting David Horne (composer), please affix the template to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that '''this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here''' CSDWarnBot (talk) 00:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Userfied!
I've userfied David Horne (composer) for you at User:Atavi/David Horne (composer). Cheers! --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 17:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Almeida Prado - You're Welcome
Thanks for the kind message. The article is very well written -- you should consider submitting it for WP:DYK. Cheers. Ecoleetage (talk) 18:16, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * PS I took a look through your contributions and I was highly impressed with your work. Please accept the following as a token of my esteem:

Drawing board
Hello, Atavi. Thank you for your note at the drawing board. You have a reply. Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Refs in The Fiery Angel
Thanks for your comments on my talk page.

Since we are constantly asked to provide "evidence" for certain statements made in articles, it seemed to be more logical to move the 3 refs from the Sources list and expand them further than is possible with that template concept (which often just adds more and more to the page) as specific justifcations for the statements you make.

My other thought is that, the more detailed the ref and the more one knows about its source, the more justified one is in using it. So Phillip Huscher's program notes for the Chi. Symph. Orchestra which in your version read simply as "Chicago Symphony No. 3 Program Notes" with no link to the source, is now more specific and links directly. The others do too.

Viva-Verdi (talk) 19:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Gioachino Rossini Vandalism
What are you talking about? Since when is a fact about Rossini life vandalism. This is all true and genuine information which was added to his page because I though it was interesting. He was born on February 29. By which measure are you declaring it vandalism?--A Real Kaiser...NOT! (talk) 06:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry for butting in ... Atavi, you were right, and Kaiser, I also removed it, when you put it back. While it may be true, it is a trivia bit, and the last sentence of the lead is the single most important position in an article to make a general statement of the subject's significance; putting in the leap-year stuff is singularly inappropriate there.  Thank you both, Antandrus  (talk) 04:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Nicholas II of Russia
Nicholas II of Russia You wrote: Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did to Nicholas II of Russia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.--Atavi (talk) 13:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not understand what I did wrong I certainly did not vandalize

See: Sandbox:

When to mark an edit as minor Spelling corrections Simple formatting (e.g., capitalisation, punctuation, or properly adding italics to non-English words, like folie de grandeur) Formatting that doesn't change the meaning of the page (e.g. adding horizontal lines, splitting one paragraph into two—where this is not contentious) Obvious factual errors (e.g., changing "Nixon resigned in 1874" to "Nixon resigned in 1974") Fixing layout errors Adding and correcting wiki links Removing vandalism and graffiti

If you would let me know my mistake I’ll appreciate. Thanks Roeber 14:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Nicholas II of Russia: Sorry for:random "wiki markup" characters ...will see what that is SSS Smile Sorry for: unfortunately not "an" accident

will use more often the sandbox.. have to familiarize with it more. will learn to do productive edits, Yep Wilkieten is my work..gues have to learn there too. do/can I make a false positiv in there?? was no Vandalism. Never want to vandalize.!!! Yep and both are my accounts. Had lost the password on one of the accounts ..established a new one and found the old one. Will take only one. did not know what to do with two accounts.

saw you speak German too. I am German/American Thanks for all Roeber 15:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

If you have any question, feel free to ask on my talk page or in one of the places mentioned in Questions. It is me again. Need help. my User:page dissapears. I had my babel in and a short description. what happened?? thanks again. Roeber 15:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fast answer.!!! Okay I want to keep Roeber(F) User-page. Do I just leave Roeber(FI)account empty, or can you delete it for me??I had already edited on that user-pager though. again User-Page Roeber(F) has already my babel and info as far as I can see it and I want to keep that. thanks again Roeber 16:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC) and another question. In case you delete my Roeber (FI) account can you transfer all the info you gave me about wiki-edit/ etc to me existing account Roeber (F) ??? thanks again Roeber 17:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

thanks very much, will leave Roeber(FI) as be. Roeber 17:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

"Copy writing"
Hello Jonyungk, I'm writing, having gone through the history of the Shostakovich 2nd Symphony. I noticed you marked several edits as "copy writing" in the edit summary. I would understand that to mean Copy editing, but your edits actually added content, which does not fall under the copy editing tasks. I hope I'm not too pedantic; it's just that when someone goes through an article history, it is useful to have meaningful edit summaries to help sort out the edits. Cheers, --Atavi (talk) 08:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't wanted to argue about this since the point you're bringing up is, to some extent, subjective. But yes, I think you're being too pedantic. For me, editing can include rewriting, so you can copy edit something and end up with a larger number of words than before without adding any content—it's a case of "breaking down" (making clearer) what was previously stated. If I did add content on some of these occasions, my mis-labeling was an obvious mistake and for that I apologize and will try to be more careful. Jonyungk (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Alasdair Tait
I know this is an article you created almost three years ago but it was a direct copy paste from. You seem to be a much more experienced editor now but I thought I would let you know that I have nominated it for speedy deletion.Nrswanson (talk) 19:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I replied a few moments ago on Nrswanson talk page. After a point in time, I would not normally have put entire talk discussions in duplicate places, but this I want to have here. I am only omitting greeting passages:
 * You might be surprised to receive a reply after such a long time since you left me a message.
 * The reason I did not reply earlier is because I was (and I am still not really) active as an editor and had not logged in since August 2008.
 * Anyway, I wanted to reply, firstly because I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you, but most importantly because I wanted to clear up the issue a bit. Even when I first started as an editor I would never even considered lifting any material at all from a source, let alone plagiarize it. Of course I did make some mistakes at the start, such as some passages which might have been original research, and uploading images under mistaken fair use rationale (one was actually correct, but was deleted as I did not see the notification; it has since reappeared).
 * On this specific issue, the material I used to create to use the Tait page, I took (verbatim) from the [Belcea Quartet Article. Of course (as per WP licensing policy) material from one article can be copied to another. I assumed that since the information was there it was valid. The one area my inexperience then affected was that I did not think to web search for parts of the text, to see if it was lifted. Later I very often used Google to locate plagiarism by other editors and then corrected it. At one I even managed to salvage one article, which was a complete lift as well. I probably would have done the same with the Tait article if I had seen the notification and was active; by saying this last part I also imply that I will probably not attempt to recreate the article now.
 * On a trip down memory lane, I wrote at some point an excerpt in an article, which some time later was thought to be plagiarism. As I investigated and to my amazement, it turned out that the other source had lifted the WP article, without sourcing. Fortunately the dates of both the WP edits and the other source were available, so the matter was clear.
 * I know you did not mean any offense and you were very courteous.
 * I just wanted to explain this, because myself I take these things very seriously.
 * I will try to check for any reply by you, but as I will still not be logging in frequently, please don't take offense if I don't.
 * --Atavi (talk) 22:11, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I just saw that this is actually a case where the alleged source actually got the material from Wikipedia. In fact, it also cited Wikipedia as its source explicitly.--Atavi (talk) 00:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi. Was off-wiki for a long while. Seems I goofed when I speedied the article but that mistake has been overturned. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson (talk) 21:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Atavi! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 22:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Igor Zelenski -

Emanuel Feuermann
Atavi, in July of 2008, you added a lot of information to Emanuel Feuermann's biographical article, including an Evaluation section. None of it has any referenced sources. Some of the claims are fairly bold. There are also several quotations. I wondered where you found the information.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Please see my reply in BB32's talk (permalink)


 * Atavi (talk) 02:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Atavi, please see my post on the Feuermann discussion page.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:31, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Carlos Fonseca Book Cover Matilde zimmermann.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Carlos Fonseca Book Cover Matilde zimmermann.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 18:04, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 04:55, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks


Keithbob has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

Dear Atavi, So much of what we all do on Wiki, goes un-noticed. Thanks for taking the time to notice and appreciate my work and here's a cookie in appreciation of your work and our team effort to improve Wiki! -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 13:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage
Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Autopatrolled
Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the "autopatrolled" permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please remember:
 * This permission does not give you any special status or authority
 * Submission of inappropriate material may lead to its removal
 * You may wish to display the Autopatrolled top icon and/or the User wikipedia/autopatrolled userbox on your user page
 * If, for any reason, you decide you do not want the permission, let me know and I can remove it
 * If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 18:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Ronn Torossian
The only edit I made was on the name of an organization listen erroneously due to a reference that had it wrong. I have not made any significant edits to this page in years. Knowing the potential COI, I stay way. Nothing in the COI policy forbids me from making a totally innocuous change to a page, even where I may have interest, where the change is a correction of an error and not a positive or negative viewpoint. Kindly do not make my contribution and issue, as I have made it a point of not adding my thoughts to the article and the talk page. Thank you --Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * See, exactly because you made no COI edits, solely a correction, but another user for whom it isn't logical to have any interest in this page is making massive edits. That is what I find suspicious.

--Atavi (talk) 21:17, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I know you're not suggesting I should be making edits that can be construed as COI. I may not edit the page, but I do watch it to see how it is going, as I do many pages.  This one is a piece I created some time ago, and it is about a place I am associated with, so it has a bit more concern for me.  The Albanian piece was something I was close to and therefore, when  I saw the name of it incorrectly written and I knew it linked to a Wiki article elsewhere, I linked it properly.  Note that there are probably more issues I'd want to adjust.  The fact that it linked to a Wiki page and I know how Wikipedia loves articles that are not orphaned inspired me here.

--Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't have any real objections to that. As long as it's not a form of "spamming", and it clearly isn't (I state this specifically) it's OK to fix such stuff. ---Atavi (talk) 21:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

RE: Algiers Accords
okay ive replaced the gigantic tags with specific queriesLihaas (talk) 19:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Deleted article
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm not as active here as I used to be.

I'm not sure how much this will help. Here's the article in its entirety (I removed a bracket from the category tags to keep your talk page from being added to the categories):

Abdulkarim Ghuraib is a former Algerian ambassador to the United States. Assisted as an intermediary in the Iran hostage crisis. [Category:Algerian people] [Category:Diplomats]

Joyous! | Talk 00:52, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Kindle X-Ray
Re: your edit here, I can vouch for User:StanCon, I know who they are, they're just a new editor figuring things out, so no worries there. Gamaliel ( talk ) 22:30, 11 September 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for that. Sorry for the unwarranted red flag. -- Atavi (talk) 18:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Kamilló Lendvay


The article Kamilló Lendvay has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Article is ineligible for BLP-Prod as it was created before the rule took effect. Nonetheless this article makes no claim to encyclopedic notability for its subject. See WP:N and WP:BIO. No sources are cited. See WP:RS and WP:V. Please add content backed by properly cited reliable and verifiable sources that establish the notability of the subject or this article may be deleted.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Ad Orientem (talk) 22:50, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)