User talk:Atefrat/Archive 3

Archive 3 - Year 2013

Re: Holyland (neighborhood)
Greetings Ynhockey. You recently changed (neighborhood) to (residential complex) in the "WikiProject Israel - to do list". True, the complex (monstrosity) that we all know and love (or hate, mostly hate) as "Holyland" comprises the overwhelming majority of the Holyland neighborhood. But there is more to the neighborhood - residences totally unconnected to the complex. Neighborhood signs have been posted by the Jerusalem Municipality. Here's one from GoogleStreetViews --@Efrat (talk) 09:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Always thought it was part of Ramat Sharett. Thanks for pointing it out. —Ynhockey (Talk) 12:01, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This may be of interest. (But don't hold your breath!) --@Efrat (talk) 16:22, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Whitelist approval
Greetings, Stifle. You placed a note on my whitelist request that it is "eligible for approval". Is there something I can or must do to expedite the process? Or should I simply wait patiently while others do what they do? Kind regards, --@Efrat (talk) 08:22, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to find an admin who can write your URL as a regular expression, or wait until one shows up. Unfortunately, as you have seen, the process is glacial. Stifle (talk) 14:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 12
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Route 386 (Israel), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Beit HaKerem (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
 * Fixed. --@Efrat (talk) 05:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 23
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Route 411 (Israel), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hulda (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.


 * Fixed.--@Efrat (talk) 12:36, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Hadassah convoy massacre
Greetings, Pluto2012! You reverteed my edit to this article. I understand that there may be some problems with my edit. Please re-read my edit summary to understand what I was trying to do. I took issue with a trivial aspect relating to the number killed and the fact that there is an official number recognized by local autorities. I believe that my edit was appropriate. Perhaps specific wording can be changed to make the point. You said, "many Haganah fighters died ..." in your revert summary. I believe the phrase, "Ancillary Personnel" is inclusive (unless you wish to specifically mention Haganah fighters). Surely there is some concise wording that would bring truth to the article and include all possible interpretations. Kind regards, --@Efrat (talk) 20:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. Indeed, I think the Haganah fighters who died cannot be forgotten and it should not be considered all the victims were Doctors and nurses. Pluto2012 (talk) 19:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You are correct. I have reworded the edit in the infobox and in the text to exactly duplicate the wording on the official memorial plaque.  I thought of rearranging the order, but that would be editorializing, so I left the order as worded on the plaque.  I believe that includes all of the pertinent information.--@Efrat (talk) 06:57, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 14
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Route 436 (Israel), you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Stonecutter, Green Line and Giv'on (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject. opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed --@Efrat (talk) 14:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Israel section of "Hitchhiking" article
Hi Atefrat. Thank you for restoring the text which was removed from Hitchhiking. But you did not restore the references. I think it's better to leave references to "unreliable" sources in place: I have restored the refs and added better source. Kol tuv, &mdash;Unforgettableid (talk) 05:57, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * To thank authors.
 * So that people can click through to read more.
 * And so that people can click through, and evaluate the trustworthiness of the source themselves.
 * Thanks for your efforts. But now again User:Nikkimaria has gutted the main article, Hitchhiking in Israel.  Can you help with that?  Kind regards, --@Efrat (talk) 01:09, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way, interesting how Nikkimaria is obsessed with eliminating Israeli hitchhiking instead of trying to improve the poorly written and unsourced Nepali hitchhiking section. --@Efrat (talk) 09:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Months ago, I fought a similar gutting of content I contributed to Maglite. I lost per WP:V. It seems to me that, if you fight the content removal, you're fighting a battle which would be difficult to win.
 * If I were you, I would instead put the removed content up on Hitchwiki, Wikivoyage, or Wikia: whichever is stablest and has the most editors.
 * Then I would perhaps link to that wiki in "External Links" per WP:ELNO point 12: if an open wiki has a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors, you can link to it. You can annotate an external link in the External Links section, like this: "ExampleWiki page on hitchhiking in Israel. Discusses how to get a lift, various thumb signals, and hitchhiking by soldiers."
 * As for how Nikkimaria picked on Israel: It's sad, but there's nothing that can be done.
 * Good luck! Kol tuv. &mdash;Unforgettableid (talk) 20:36, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

OR - Cite impeccable reliable sources. Would "travel guides" such as Frommer's, Fodor's or Lonely Planet qualify as reliable sources? --@Efrat (talk) 03:52, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I suspect so. Good point; I didn't think of that idea. Your local public library should carry some such guidebooks. Alternatively, you can copy and translate material from the Hebrew Wikipedia, if it has an article about hitchhiking in Israel. The English Wikipedia accepts references to Hebrew-language sources. If you reply, please move this whole conversation to Talk:Hitchhiking in Israel, then please use talkback to point me there. Kol tuv, &mdash;Unforgettableid (talk) 23:19, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Map problem
Hi Atefrat, Please take a look at this map, it appears that Kiryat Ata is labeled as Kiryat Ono. I don't have the original files so it would be difficult for me to fix. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 06:19, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice catch! Now fixed.  --@Efrat (talk) 11:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=567617479 your edit] to Ring Neighborhoods, Jerusalem may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 01:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed! --@Efrat (talk) 01:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Reflist | refs
Greetings, Ynhockey! Ever since I saw you placing all of the references at the bottom of the page using { { Reflist | refs = } }, I too have used this method. Are you aware that edits to such references cannot be done using VisualEditor (VE) beta? Not that I care. I still prefer editing the source. Call me old-fashioned. (And I still do not have a smart phone!!!) --@Efrat (talk) 09:04, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Atefrat! I am glad you are using the same method :)
 * I was not aware that it was impossible to edit it using the Visual Editor, but to be honest I never touch the Visual Editor anyway. Having full refs in the article body really clutters the code and indeed makes it difficult to edit without a Visual Editor, which is not very good at this point (and even when/if it becomes good, it will be slower than the old editor because it uses heavy JavaScript).
 * Hopefully they make this reference template method available on Visual Editor. If not, IMO it's still better to do it the way we do.—Ynhockey (Talk) 09:36, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 28
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Highway 77 (Israel), you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Aqueduct and Poria (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
 * If there is no objection, I prefer to leave the link to the disambiguation page. This is a cluster of 3 distinct small communities: Poria – Kfar Avoda, Poria – Neve Oved, and Poria Illit.  Who am I to decide which is more important.  Let the reader see the links to all three articles.  --@Efrat (talk) 12:11, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure using the disambiguation page in this way is optimal. It seems to me that it would be better to have a page called "Poria (Israel)" which explains that there are three communities near/adjacent to each other, with links to each one, and any other information that may be common to them.  Ideally it would have a map showing all three.  What do you think? M Carling 21:17, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Re: Modern vs. ancient sources
Greetings, YN! In a recent discussion with User:Ananiujitha about sources in Battle of Elasa, a point was made that all of the sources were ancient (Bible, Josephus) except for one (Bezalel (1976)). Do you know of a source tag which would call for the inclusion of "recent works" as sources? Regards, --@Efrat (talk) 11:53, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Atefrat, I only know of Better source that might fit what you're looking for. Usually problems like this are too nuanced to cover by tags anyway and are solved on talk. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 13:13, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. Kind regards,  --@Efrat (talk) 19:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Latrun
Greetings, Zero0000! You recently made a minor change to Latrun. You are correct - boni instead of bonu according to proper Latin grammar. As for your comment for a better source, how about - Walter Pick's entry in the Jewish Virtual Encyclopedia. While Baraq is a Jewish Agency bureaucrat, Pick is/was a respected historian. But then Pick says domus (house), instead of castellum (castle). If I change the source to Pick, I will also change the text. I have used the Baraq source in another article and will change both depending upon your response. Regards, --@Efrat (talk) 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Pick is a fine source but you should cite his article directly. You can get to the Latrun article of EJ here.  Incidentally, in Le Strange's "Palestine under the Arabs" and some other places, it appears as Castrum boni Latronis.  Maybe the Castellum/Castrum/Domi part of it doesn't matter that much. Zerotalk 14:27, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you input. I cited Pick from EJ as you suggested.  --@Efrat (talk) 18:47, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Eleazar Avaran
Greetings, StAnselm! I was just putting my finishing touches on my opinion of the renaming of Eleazar Avaran to Eleazar Maccabeus when I saw that you reverted the change! That was quick! If User:IZAK challenges this and/or if more opinions come in, I hope you will be able to place the proper templates onto the talk page and initiate the proper log entries in order to make it an official discussion. I'm not sure how to do this. For the moment, however, this may be premature; it may not come to that.--@Efrat (talk) 08:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I had noticed the move earlier and wondered about it. The thing is, anyone can move a page if the move is uncontroversial. But if there is any debate, reverting the move is appropriate, and then the proposed move can be discussed via WP:RM. So my move is not an "official decision" but the onus is on User:IZAK to start a formal move discussion. StAnselm (talk) 08:25, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Understood. Thank you.  --@Efrat (talk) 08:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Atefrat: You contacted me about this, but I am a little confused as to where the actual discussion is (if there is one) because on the talk page only you commented so far. In general, if you notify the involved users and no one opposes your position, you can feel free to move the article (WP:RM allows/encourages moves discussed on the local talk page). I think you should put this case on WP:RM though. —Ynhockey (Talk) 09:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, since my initial message to you, StAmselm has reverted the page. He says that the onus is on User:IZAK to start a formal move discussion.  So for now, it is a non-issue.  Thanks for responding.  Kind regards,  --@Efrat (talk) 09:36, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=583499159 your edit] to Highway 1 (Israel) may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
 * List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

''Ben Shemen Interchange (443 extension)'' (eastbound only) Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 07:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * | align="center" | מחלף בן שמן
 * Fixed. --@Efrat (talk) 09:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Downtown/Triangle
Why did you remove Downtown/Triangle from the Neighborhoods of Jerusalem template in this edit? Debresser (talk) 15:20, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Huh? Oh! I removed it from the "to do list" because it's done, and is now in the "Central "Neighborhoods" section, thanks to Yoninah.  --@Efrat (talk) 20:57, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It is. Thanks for the explanation. I missed that. Debresser (talk) 00:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Google Street View coordinates
Greetings, Verne Equinox! You recently included a Google Street View in the article Mini Israel. The coordinates you used gave a Google Map of Austria Route 107 on the Salzberg-Carinthia border. I changed the coordinates to give a sample of Street View in Mini Israel which I assume was your original intent. Kind regards, --@Efrat (talk) 15:26, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching my error on the Google Street View link re Mini Israel! Verne Equinox (talk) 00:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Neighborhoods of Jerusalem
Greetings, Yoninah! Nice job with Downtown Triangle (Jerusalem). If you still have חשק, don't forget to look at the Neighborhoods of Jerusalem "to do list" (scroll to bottom of page). Regards, --@Efrat (talk) 11:13, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. And thanks for directing me to that hidden list. I'll definitely keep those "to do" neighborhoods in mind. Best, Yoninah (talk) 11:26, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Forgot? Hidden because - When I first edited the template in its current form, few editors liked the red links.  I then put them into the bottom margin of the template.  Then someone commented them out on shaky grounds of MOS.  Anyway they're now hidden.  Take note that I have updated the list in the last couple of minutes.  --@Efrat (talk) 12:26, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi again, I was looking up Ohel Shlomo over Shabbos and found that 23 neighborhoods were founded in Jerusalem between 1891-1897. Shaarei Yerushalayim, to the west of Ohel Moshe, was much bigger and more important. I'm just wondering why you chose a few to include in the "to do" list? Yoninah (talk) 17:02, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I only added neighborhoods that either appear on current maps (Google, Walla, etc), are listed in Jerusalem municipality web site, or (and especially) are officially named neighborhoods with municipality posted signs at the borders. I realize now that we have a problem.  Some of the neighborhoods with articles may not be official.  For example, Batei Ungarin.  Is it official?   Are signs posted at the entrances to the neighborhood?  Or is it common knowledge among the residents of the area?  Is Batei Ungarin, in fact, officially part of Beit Yisrael (or Mea shearim)?  Should we put Batei Ungarin in the "Historic Neighborhoods" section and make note in the article that it is now part of the Beit Yisrael neighborhood.  Is there no end to these complications? lol!   Never mind for now.  Little by little.  In the meantime, feel free to add to the to-do list.  Kind regards,  --@Efrat (talk) 18:38, 7 December 2013 (UTC)