User talk:AthéeTW

Welcome to my user page.

May 2015
Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Religious views of Adolf Hitler. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you.  Dwpaul  Talk   18:39, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


 * A person's speculation is not a definite, what I added was a neutral point of view. AthéeTW (talk) 22:09, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Expressing viewpoints as facts is POV-pushing. AthéeTW (talk) 22:14, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Every statement is someone's "viewpoint." However, the viewpoints of scholars and other reliable sources cited here are the basis for the claims and statements made in the article.  It is always implicit that there may be other viewpoints in the world, but our goal here is to describe the prevailing views about our subject based on cited, reliable sources, and not to question the credibility of those sources within the article.


 * Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources. (WP:UNDUE) It does not require that we hedge every statement with words like supposedly, probably, etc. because we know that it happens to be someone's viewpoint.


 * What you added were expressions of doubt about the quality, accuracy and/or veracity of the reliable sources cited in the article. When reliable sources are provided and there are not known to be equally reliable sources that contradict them or express contrasting views, it is not only unnecessary but it is inappropriate for us to question the information presented in those sources.  In effect, you are expressing your POV that the sources given may not be credible.  As I said in my summary, you are free to question or disagree with the sources, but you may not do so in the voice of Wikipedia.  If you can provide reliable sources that offer different opinions or perspectives on these points, you should add them to the article, not add expressions of doubt concerning our existing sources without adding new ones.  Alternatively, you can explain your problems with the existing claims and/or their sources on the article's Talk page and encourage other editors to look for better or more diverse sources.  See WP:ALLEGED.   Dwpaul   Talk   22:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

The most of the whole article is speculation by a few historian or some that were near him, most quotes listed are also merely hearsay, while ignoring statements Hitler definitely stated or wrote, instead favoring the hearsay quotes. It is only speculation that Hitler was only opportunistic for religion, there is not a single quote Hitler definitely stated or wrote that makes that conclusion. The article is severely biased, the sources either cherry-picked or favoritism toward historians' speculation. Facts also were ignored, such as "God with us" was the official motto of Nazi Germany and Secular schools were shut down for religious ones. "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.  In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders.  How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.  To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross.  As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…  And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity.  It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.”  –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934 "This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. ...There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf "For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: 'Lord, make us free!' is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!" -Adolf Hitler's prayer, Mein Kampf "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people."-Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933 "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."-Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933 "A campaign against the 'godless movement' and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces."-Associated Press story, February 23, 1933. AthéeTW (talk) 23:09, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


 * What you are describing is the product of your original research, which has led you to conclusions different than the sources cited in the article. However, please follow that link to see that editing based on original research is not permitted here.  We as Wikipedia editors are not permitted to write and present our own essays in the voice of the encyclopedia.  If you can find one or more reliable sources that have done the same or similar analysis and have come to the same conclusions, by all means add those sources and their conclusions to the article or present them on the Talk page for discussion with other editors who have contributed or will contribute to it.   Dwpaul   Talk   23:19, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I didn't speculate anything in what I typed. The statements are mostly from Mein Krampf and speeches, which is more reliable than proposed claims by historians. An appeal to authority is an argument from the fact that a person judged to be an authority affirms a proposition to the claim that the proposition is true. That is not a neutral point of view. You are acting oblivious toward the facts. Do you have any quotes definitely from Hitler that affirms the claims made by the few historians? If the sources only represents speculation, then the sources aren't reliable toward a factual position. AthéeTW (talk) 23:37, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter what I think about Hitler, or what quotes I might or might not be able to find to support or contradict one position or another about him. You're obviously not taking the time to read the Wikipedia core policies to which I directed you.  Please do so: Reliable sources, No original research, Due and undue weight.  We are not permitted to present our own interpretations of the written works or spoken words of the subjects of our articles.  You may not cite Mein Kampf, for example, as a reliable source for your interpretation of it.  You must cite non-primary reliable sources that provide the same or a similar interpretation.  See WP:PRIMARY for a discussion of the differences between primary, secondary and tertiary sources.  It says, in part: All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than to an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.  Dwpaul   Talk   23:44, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I have already told you how to pursue the improvement of the article if you think the sources cited do not present all significant viewpoints on the subject, do not do so adequately or are somehow biased or otherwise suspect. Adding expressions of doubt to the article is not a way to achieve its improvement.  Dwpaul   Talk   23:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

If you truly believe the article as of current represents a neutral point of view then you are delusional. I typed the actual statements and actions Hitler had made and you act infallible toward speculation. I tried to help this Wikipedia from delusional fanatics and it's nearly impossible to reason with them. I quit, I knew this might have happened, Wikipedia is not usually biased, it usually is toward religion and politics, especially religion. I wanted to know if this would have been futile, and it was. Thank you for disillusioning me from this Wikipedia fallaciousness. The only thing I can do now is to discourage people from Wikipedia, since it is biased, especially toward religiously heated subjects. Have a good day, and if you get mad, just block me from Wikipedia. And don't worry about your views, I won't try to improve or correct them. After all you are always right and know everything. Bye AthéeTW (talk) 00:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have absolutely no views, nor expertise, on the religious views of Adolf Hitler, and hence absolutely no bias. You clearly have done research, I have not.  We are not debating whether I am right or whether you are wrong.  Our discussion has had to do with the policies of Wikipedia.  I also will not claim that the article currently presents a neutral point of view, nor do I need to in order to demonstrate that adding expressions of doubt is not an improvement to the article. You are responsible for your edits, and if they do not comply with Wikipedia policies my objection to them is not a defense of every edit that came before it, nor an insistence that the article must forever remain as it is.  I have told you how the article can be improved if you think it needs improvement. If you are disinclined to do so, the proper way and in keeping with Wikipedia's policies, it is a shame and probably our loss, but it is your choice, not mine.  Dwpaul   Talk   00:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

I edited the article a long time, a lot of times, following the "proper way", they got deleted for some reason like summarizing or an other excuse like you're POV-pushing etc, though I was not and the entire edits I made about Hitler's views coincidentally is the only thing deleted. I sourced them and it took hours to do. The only way to make edits on there is if I lied like them, I don't lie or intentional lie. There is a cover up on that article and I know it. There's nothing I can do, I went to the Admins before too, didn't help much. AthéeTW (talk) 00:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

It was on a different account, I forgot the password to that account and it has been awhile. AthéeTW (talk) 00:51, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

AthéeTW, you are invited on a Wikipedia Adventure!
 The Adventure