User talk:Axel Norup Hedegaard

discussion about war 973-983
stop rewriting and adulterate the pages how you want Docd13 (talk) 17:52, 31 March 2024 (UTC)


 * do you deny the existance of the battle of julin bridge 1170 and that the danes under sveyn reconquered hedeby? Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 18:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * i understand that you want germany to win the war but when you occupy a city until 981 and it thereafter is reconquered from 982-983 and denmark no longer is a subject of the HRE you cant seriously say thats a german victory Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 18:22, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * the war itself didn't even last until 883, that happened {LATER AFTER THE WAR} the war itself ended in German victory, you have to learn the differences, there are several sources linked there and i have many more that confirm my article, there is no reconquest because Otto's goal was not to conquer anything but to demonstrate his influence on Denmark, an occupation is not an conquest but a result. and why do you suddenly jump from 873 to 1170? unimportant comparisons. Docd13 (talk) 18:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * When you are undoing the Danish war wiki, you are deleting the war of 1170.
 * But there's none of your sources that state the war ends in 981. And other than that, you yourself added the Obotrites as participating on the Danish side of the war in 983 after you said the war ended. We weren't allied to them. Other than that, you forgot to mention that Denmark at first defeated the Germans, which is stated in your own sources.
 * And no, his war goal wasn't to show influence. He wouldn't leave Italy, such a vital point in securing his power, if it had just been to show influence. No, it was a direct intervention to ensure no Viking raids by keeping Denmark under control, as Harald was a vassal of the empire. And even in your own sources, it is stated that Harald rebelled, and Otto knew that it would lose him his prestige to let Viking raids get into northern Germany.
 * And no, an occupation isn't a result when the occupation only affects a part of a kingdom, and there's no peace treaty signed between the parts. Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * first of all, I didn't remove anything but reset your nonsense, feel free to add your battle in 1170 again individually if you have sources for it. Harald had already invaded Northern Germany aka Saxony 1 year before and there is no time information about battles that take place later during a longer time, so we can only take the war year in which Otto faced Harald. and no, my article says that Otto received tough resistance when he headed towards danevirke but was not defeated, danevirke is a protective wall line for defence, that's why he attacked by sea to evade danevirke, my sources confirm the victory. Docd13 (talk) 19:21, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "In the summer the Danish and Norwegians attacked into Northern Germany, Emperor Otto 2 led an army to Denmark, he met heavy resistance and (Emperor Otto 2 was defeated) at the gate Wiglesdor at Dannevirke" Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * and just to clarrify this is your sourve (https://vikinghistorytales.blogspot.com/2013/12/974-emperor-otto-2-led-army-to-denmark.html) Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:27, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "but after the Norwegians sailed homelater managed to conquer the southern borderlands and the town Hedeby was under German occupation 974-81" Docd13 (talk) 19:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * you said he wasnt defeated is my main point and if you had looked in my article i also state that he took hedeby and the lower denmark but sweyn forkbeard reconquered the land in 982-983 Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * what about we take my article and say its inconclusive? Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * and we can set some of your other sources into it to because we both know we dont get anything out of arguing Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 19:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * but wasn't at all? Harald lost Norway as vassal, his country was destroyed with scorched earth tactics and he had to submit to Otto II, cities like Hedeby fell under German occupation. it's a clear German victory Docd13 (talk) 19:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * yes hedeby fell under german occupation until it was liberated in 982-983
 * the source you send also dosent say it ended in 974 and again i wrote the exact same thing as you have listed below so i dont contest that but denmark won the territory back in 982-983
 * and again how does norway becoming independent as i stated myself have anything to do with denmark being victories or not? it wasnt the german war goal to give norway independence its like saying the peninsula war is a defeat for spain because it lead to their colonies getting independence Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "liberated" sry but there is no sign of another war or Military Action that happened and because it was only a occupied territory, it was natural that Denmark would get these areas back, and Otto II also died. the war itself ended in a German victory, as confirmed by almost every source. Docd13 (talk) 20:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * so if i have tbh i dont know how you can see this as a german victory? Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 20:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You mean that Harald's rebellion and invasion didn't work and he was pushed back to Denmark, had to submit to Otto II and territories were occupied and destroyed is not a victory? Docd13 (talk) 20:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Again no it’s not victory because Harald did not submit in any of your sources and therefore the war isn’t done until 983 when Denmark takes its territories back and the matter is basically settled Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 02:48, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "Again subjugated to the Holy Roman Empire, the Danes had no other choice than to bide their time. Fortunately for them, the emperor faced many foes."
 * https://medievalreporter.com/the-danevirke/
 * Even if Denmark got its territories back it would mean that's it was a new war, there is no record of battles between 974-981 and my source says he submitted thus means the war was already over. Docd13 (talk) 13:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * since there is no sign that the war last until 983 but my source which i am sending confirms that the war takes place between 973-974, so it rlly doesn't matter. And i admit my mistake that the Danes may have won a battle but not the war.
 * See >(https://medievalreporter.com/the-danevirke/])
 * (But, much contented with the plunder of their campaign, Harald’s Norwegian allies returned home after the battle, leaving the Danes to fend for themselves. Otto II sensed an opportunity for revenge and attacked Harald’s army the next year. This time, the imperial military was successful.
 * After beating the Danes in battle, king Harald then witnessed what his predecessors had managed to avert for centuries: the enemy broke through the Danevirke! For the first time in history, soldiers of the Empire were on the northern side of the wall. To Harald’s great detriment, Otto II also conquered parts of Jutland in the wake of this catastrophe.) Docd13 (talk) 19:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * the evidence that points to it having lasted until 983 is denmark taking their territories back Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 20:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * where should that stand?? Of course Denmark gets its territories back because Otto II died and an occupation is not integration into the empire like a annexation Docd13 (talk) 20:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Denmark with force took their territories back you can’t declare victory because you occupy something you can have victory when you either have completely neutralized the opponent something which didn’t happen and is typically seen in earlier history or you can declare victory when you sign a treaty I don’t care that you didn’t annex it I care that you think it’s a victory and thereby make propaganda Axel Norup Hedegaard (talk) 02:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 * And where is your source for this? that Denmark took back the territories by military force in 983? and yet you don't give me any other reason why Denmark won, every source calls it Denmark's defeat and a German victory. Docd13 (talk) 12:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

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Danish reconquest of Jutland moved to draftspace
Thanks for your contributions to Danish reconquest of Jutland. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it has no sources. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 02:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)