User talk:Azimsultan

Hi.

Deleting sourced info, as you have repeatedly done at Esperanto, might be considered vandalism. Why don't you take your concerns to the talk page? kwami (talk) 18:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I answered on my talk page. As far as I can tell, the source you're deleting more or less supports the paragraph. The wording could probably be improved, but I don't see a reason for deletion. kwami (talk) 22:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

csd g1
Hi,

could you please have another read of Criteria_for_speedy_deletion, at least as far as it applies to nonsense? GCGC might well be inappropriate for inclusion as a neologism, but it's certainly not a CSD. Thanks, --fvw *  03:12, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Well... no!
First off this disussion took place over two years ago - when many of the current editors were not here, when things were going differently. The discussion has already been declared as dead. Since then, many discussions have been going in different boards and talk pages. Wikipedia does not make polls - making polls is against the spirit of Wikipedia. Even then, the voting that you are talking about involved only five or six (or seven) editors, which is quite laughable. And the pages concerned were Bollywood films, NOT actors.

As for actors, their mother tongue - that's what counts. We won't add thousand scripts, or say, only Hindi and Urdu - when the actual native language of the person is, say, Tulu. The foreign script has nothing to do with the person's profession, but his identity and particular native language. I've discussed it back in time with Ekantik, which was very well decided and determined eventually. It is of course definitely important in such bios as those of the Khans (Shahrukh, aamir, Salman...). The native language is the matter here. Also, no discussions can surpass a policy or guideline, and in this case, we have MOS:PN, and not a poll conducted by people with bias.

As for films, Bollywood films are Hindi films, not Urdu nor Hindustani. There is an extremely minor use of some Urdu words, but that where it ends. This is also something that has been discussed several times since then. I personally don't have strong feelings about that in particular, so I did not oppose to the use of that in film articles. Many others did have. So they have been removing Urdu scripts. The poll was declared as dead as you can see on Talk:Bollywood, and the issue has been going from talk to talk constantly. This was quite a controversial topic for many, and one determined decision has not been reached. Some decided that the use of Urdu may be appropriate in such pages as Jodhaa Akbar, Umrao Jaan, Mughal-e-Azam, and I fully support it. Otherwise, the result is clear that Hindi is the right (and only) way to go. Thanks, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  11:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you don't mind me butting in here: If Urdu speakers think many of the films are in Urdu, while Standard Hindi speakers think they're in Standard Hindi; if the films are often intentionally international, or ambiguous as to language in order to reach a broader audience; and if Hindi and Urdu speakers often can't tell the difference between their (spoken) languages, how can one ever decide which language the film is in? kwami (talk) 11:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well the fact that Bollywood films are in Hindi and only Hindi is not arguable. The scripts - that was the point. When it comes to BLPs, however, there's nothing to be confused about - mother tongue - that's all..
 * As for films - Bollywood films are Hindi films. The fact that some Urdu words are used occasionally does not make them Urdu-language films, just like the fact that some English words are used does not make them English-language films.
 * The discussion Azimsultan referred to died even before it ended, because there wasn't a broader group of participants in it, and many kept discussing it even more thoroughly. In fact - that Bollywood films are in Hindi and not Urdu or Hindustani is a fact that none can disprove or argue over. The issue here is whether Urdu scripts should or should not be added, and it started when different users tried to push their POV and spread their language all over. There was an attempt to write a guideline for that (Vernacular scripts). As I said, I support the idea of the inclusion of Urdu scripts also only in such pages as Jodhaa Akbar, Umrao Jaan, Mughal-e-Azam or anything similar, which have a direct Urdu relevance. Otherwise, Hindi is the only relevant script. And by the way, today Bollywood films themselves have the name in English and Hindi scripts only.
 * Well it doesn't matter and it's not the place to discuss this - I was talking about BLPs, and here there is nothing to be confused about. All is clear. Thanks, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  12:33, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, you're very wrong. Bollywood films are in Hindi and Urdu. Besides, Hindi evolved from Standard Urdu. You say there is nothing to be confused about, but it's clear you are very confused. Thanks. azimsultan (talk) 14:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well we were talking about BLPs, here there is nothing to be confused about, and I showed you the guideline. As for films, I know that Hindi evolved from standard Urdu but it doesn't make it Urdu, it remains Hindi. The use of Urdu is equal to the use of English in Hindi (I repeat, Hindi) films. You will have to cite very reliable sources, A) to prove that Bollywood films are in both Hindi and Urdu; B) to explain why Bollywood is called Hindi cinema and not Hindustani or Hindi-Urdu cinema or whatever; C) to explain why Hindi films today use only Hindi and English scripts in most of the cases; D) to prove that Urdu is equally notable in Bollywood films as Hindi.
 * Additionally, you will have to argue with all those editors who think differently (and there are many), and all those who oppose to the inclusion of Urdu script in Hindi films. Thanks, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  14:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear Shahid, I have reverted your edits in which you removed Urdu scripts from Bollywood film articles. This issue was discussed extensively before. Please see the discussions here and here. A numerous amount of editors contributed their opinions to this issue. I believe I had also discussed the issue with you on your talk page. In light of these facts, I have restored your deletions. If you wish to make an objection to the current policy, please do so at Talk:Bollywood. Thanks for your understanding. With regards, AnupamTalk 09:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Discussed extensively? Policy? Where? And where is the result/consensus? I have made a great deal of a check all over - I have seen all the discussions regarding the issue. And I don't wish to make any kind of objections. An objection has already been made million times since these ancient discussions. The particular discussions you're talking about died a long time ago (even before they started. Just see the section that follows the second discussion you cite here - "The poll is over, guys"). Many such discussions have since taken place. No consensus was reached. That's why many have been removing Urdu scripts.
 * The poll was declared as dead as you can see on Talk:Bollywood, and the issue has been going from talk to talk constantly. This was quite a controversial topic for many, and one determined decision has not been reached. But one thing is clear: Bollywood is the Hindi film industry. Period. See books, newspapers and other sources - they all say what the meaning of Bollywood is. The use of Urdu is minor and occasional, just like the use of Punjabi, English etc. Its use is primarily in song lyrics and titles (that's why back in time film titles were presented in both Hindi and Urdu. Not today, BTW). If you want to prove otherwise, please cite very reliable sources and many (preferably books and newspapers).
 * And I want to clarify that I don't really oppose to Urdu scripts in film articles, I strongly oppose to the mention of Urdu as the language of a clearly Hindi film, something I will stand for by leaps and bounds. As for scripts, there has never been a solution. Never. Every discussion was followed by another and so on. Some decided that the use of Urdu scripts may be appropriate in such pages as Jodhaa Akbar, Umrao Jaan, Mughal-e-Azam, Veer-Zaara and I fully support it. I mean, if you want to add an Urdu script to Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, claiming it's in Urdu (except for the songs of course), please cite sources that it's in Urdu. IMDb and indiaFM say the film is in Hindi and English. The burden of proof is on you.
 * Otherwise, the result is clear: Hindi is the right (and only) way to go in Bollywood film articles. When it comes to BLPs, there is nothing to argue about - the mother tongue is the right way to go, that's according to Wikipedia's policy. Thanks, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  08:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Re:Thanks!
Oh, no problem! Best wishes to you! With regards, AnupamTalk 04:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Muhammad Azim Sultan Qamarbandi Naqsh
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Muhammad Azim Sultan Qamarbandi Naqsh, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Looks like a hoax. A December 25 holiday observed in the Arab world, which rund under the Islamic calendar? Please.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached.  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 23:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)