User talk:BDD/Archive 1

User:205.222.240.2

 * Hi BDD. I put this information on the user page to identify this account as a school with shared access, not to be rude. My intention was to alert admins who might be tempted to hand out a permanent ban. The ip is (presumably) shared by many students and we should try to avoid long term blocks in this case. Duk 16:18, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the line, Duk. I practice a policy of "hating the sin, not the sinner," so I wasn't really upset at you. I understand your intentions, given that this was a vandal, but I also feared that your actions could easily be misconstrued as inconsiderate or rude. I, for one, would not appreciate someone posting the location of this IP, another public school, even though there is a vandal or two who uses the same address. Thus, I still think that my actions were justified. Could we agree to keep the IP accessible to administrators (or even law enforcement officials) via the page's history, without showcasing the school's information to anyone who comes across it? --BDD 16:34, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Registered users have anonymity, not even admins can access the IP's of a registered user (developers can). But wikipedia does not let unregistered users hide their IP; in fact, an unregistered user's account name _is_ their IP. Anyone can do a reverse dns search to find this type of information. I always do this when dealing with unregistered vandals, to see if the IP is shared, static, or re-allocated.
 * I put back some of the information on the user page, you can trim it if you like. We should retain the fact that it is a shared school account.--Duk 17:59, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand the proceedures; I just wanted to have minimal protection rather than none. Could we compromise by keeping a note that it is a shared school IP and let people check the details via the history? I know I probably sound pretty petty, but I just feel like we shouldn't humiliate the guy or anything. --BDD 12:50, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, sounds good, make it so :) --Duk 17:49, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Jolly good show. Workin' together... that's what Wikipedia's all about. --BDD 18:49, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

List of notable U.S. presidential relatives
You sound offended Alex, and I'm sorry if you are. I was not questioning the accuracy of the statement, only it's relevance. There is nothing notable or even unusual about being a liberal or even an atheist, so why mention it? He never was arrested for these actions motivated by his views, as far as I know. RR Jr. strikes me as a very ordinary person rather mediocre who's had his 15 minutes of fame for being his dad's son. Do his views deserve your supplying a wider broascast? Vincent 04:03, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Ron Reagan is an atheist and very much liberal. (Anon)

Not so much, Vincent, no, I'm not really offended. Initially I felt a bit blown off since you were acting like what I wrote wasn't even true, and apparently hadn't even looked at Ron's article. I believe that his views are mostly what he's known for. I mean, I know Wikipedia is a place to come to learn, but I hadn't even heard of his Saturday Night Live escapade. I knew him as the leftist son of the 20th century's right-most president who endorsed John Kerry and wrote against George W. Bush. To me, keeping the article as it was would be like mentioning some point where Billy Carter got into a traffic accident and giving no mention to Billy Beer.

The bottom line, I think, is that I am following the title of the article closer, whereas you are following the text at the top more so. I agree that his beliefs aren't scandalous, and I agree that being liberal in and of itself is not notable. It's simply the context that makes it notable in this case. If Jerry Falwell had an atheist son, it would be notable. If a grandson of Adolf Hitler heavily supported Martin Luther King in the civil rights movement, it would be notable. And if you do think this is unfair, I would be fully supportive of adding similar cases to other presidents. I, indeed, am a liberal, but if Chelsea Clinton started interning with Rush Limbaugh, even I would jump to add that to this page.

I can understand where you're coming from. How about you? --BDD 02:19, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

''Hope this was concise enough. What I was originally writing here got wiped before I could post it.''

AMA Meeting Proposal
Hi! I put together a proposal for another AMA meeting that I'm hopeful you can chime in on. --Wgfinley 19:47, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR
BDD: I appreciated your ironic correction of Mark Holmberg. Thanks for taking the initiative to fill in all those columnists ( ...and correcting the one original misspelling!). Could you edit the sports page section to add a bit on RIR and NASCAR races. I myself don't read the RTD sports section but I know car races and other events at RIR are popular. The backgound is I just created the article on Richmond International Raceway yesterday and then realized that the RTD sports section might have a reference to it... and I found that it doesn't. I just don't know what to say. MPS 13:55, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. I'm really not big on NASCAR, but I do hope Henrico County gets the Hall of Fame. I'll see what I can do; I'm glad you appreciate the work. --BDD 14:49, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Invite to Star Wars Wiki
Come on over to the Star Wars Wiki (aka Wookieepedia). We'd love to have another Star Wars contrib. SparqMan 21:56, 11 May 2005 (UTC)[User:Riffsyphon1024|Riffsyphon1024]] 05:57, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Altar Q
I'm not the right person to ask about restoring this page as it would be against proper procedure for me to do so. If you feel strongly that the page should be undeleted your best option is to list it at Votes for Undeletion and present you arguments there. - SimonP 19:58, May 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Simon. I didn't know any better, but will now be removing my comments from your talk page to put them on VfU. Thanks for directing me to the proper place. --BDD 20:31, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Reverting an article
Hello, I don't know if anyone's answered this yet but after reading your User Page I thought I'd help you out with reverting articles. Here are the steps: 1. Go to the Article's History page 2. Choose the "correct" version of the page (i.e. the one prior to the vandalizement) 3. The version of the article you selected should come up 4. Choose to edit the page 5. When you are on the edit page, simply put "rv" in the Edit Summary and choose to save the page The page will then be reverted. Sorry if this didnt make much sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revert go here if you need more help. -CunningLinguist 22:15, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Altar Q
...has been undeleted. It's presently on VFD, per proper process. Please contribute to the vote, and add your newly found information to the article. Yours, Radiant_* 07:21, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Collectivism
I suggest you take the time and read the writings of the eminent twentieth-century Russian-American philosopher Ayn Rand. They will dispel the blatant myth of collectivism that you have quite obviously fallen prey to.

Also, stop calling yourself a "liberal". That term properly belongs to individuals such as myself, Ayn Rand, Barry Goldwater, Murray Rothbard, Michael Badnarik, and P.J. O'Rourke.

Thanks! Kurt Weber 19:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Human Rights Servey on Wikipedia (The final post of I_sterbinski)

 * Dear all,


 * Wikipedia was recently a subject of intensive research of an huge international human right organization. A team of people from different nationalities and ages were acting on Wikipedia for 20 days, investigating previously noted anomalities of Wikipedia free editing and forming a final report, which (between the others similar reports) will later be a guide to all future moves of the organization concerning Wikipedia. Acting under an account of a real person, their privacy is to be held private. Therefore, very few private information will be revealed.
 * Also, this is a result of the lack of final possition of the organization concerning Wikipedia and human rights, which was still not formed.


 * The team's final post on Wikipedia, where they explain their actions can be found on the following addresses:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:I_sterbinski
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Macedonia#Human_Rights_Servey_on_Wikipedia_.28The_final_post_of_I_sterbinski.29


 * The team would like to thank to all the persons who took part in the correspondence with us.
 * We also want to appologise for keeping our identity secret for a longer period.


 * Best regards,
 * Aleksandar, Biljana, Asparuh, Christos, Valjon, Michael and Ana Luiza
 * I sterbinski 01:06, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Samuel H. Shapiro
Since you added fraternity information, I would suggest that you also add college information. It looks a little odd to talk about the former without even a mention of where he went to college. -- DS1953 14:12, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I will certainly look elsewhere, as the AEPi manual gave no mention of the specific college. --BDD 16:15, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Template/Workshop
You, or any Wikipedia user, can contribute your suggestions and comments to the /Workshop page of any active arbitration case. Comments on evidence or proposals can help in understanding the import of evidence and in refining proposals. Proposed principles, findings of fact, or remedies may be listed on /Proposed decision and form part of the final decision. Fred Bauder 18:38, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Flitwick's drink
Any particular reason you removed Flitwick's drink preference? Too obscure a detail? Just wondering, Kam Tonnes 00:14, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. It seemed very out of place. I've read all books and seen all movies, so I don't think I'm missing anything that would render that significant. Do you think it's worth inclusion? --BDD 18:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think I was just trying to include as much information as possible for a minor character who doesn't have a whole lot of information available. You are probably right, though.  I don't mind it staying out. -- Kam Tonnes 01:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I certainly understand that, having an article outlining all we know of him. As long as you don't mind it being removed, though. I'm just not sure its inclusion does much. --BDD 13:24, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

AMA
Hello, you are receiving this message because your name is on the list of members of the Association of Members' Advocates. There is a poll being held at Wikipedia talk:Association of Members' Advocates for approval of a proposal for the revitalisation of the association. You are eligible to vote and your vote and input are welcome. Izehar 22:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

AMA, II
You have voted Neutral on the vote currently held at AMA. I have voted Oppose, request split of voting. I suggest you do the same, otherwise, the rules will pass without objection. Thanks — Ian Manka Questions? Talk to me! 03:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ian. That does better express my position. --BDD 03:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

New AMA poll
Please have a look at the proposed election parameters under the section entitled An election proposal... and cast a ballot. Wally 23:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

AMA Coordinator Election
Dear AMA Member,

You are entitled to vote in the AMA Coordinator election, set to begin at midnight on 3 February 2006. Please see the pages on the election and its candidates and the procedure and policy and cast a vote by e-mail!

Wally 10:59, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

AEPi
Hey, thought you'd like to know I came up with an AEPi userbox. Interesting that you're not Jewish and a member, but oh well. Thought you might like it.

Just put on your userpage, and the box will show up and automatically put you in the "Wikipedians in Alpha Epsilon Pi" Category -- pm_shef 00:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Important AfD

 * The article for the G10 Group of Prestigious Canadian Universities is up for Deletion, please go and support Education related articles in Canada. This is a very important group of schools, Canada's version of the Ivy League, and it needs your support! -- pm_shef 04:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!
Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, ! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. AmiDaniel (Talk) 06:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

VandalProof 1.2 Now Available
 After a lenghty, but much-needed Wikibreak, I'm happy to announce that version 1.2 of VandalProof is now available for download! Beyond fixing some of the most obnoxious bugs, like the persistent crash on start-up that many have experienced, version 1.2 also offers a wide variety of new features, including a stub-sorter, a global user whitelist and blacklist, navigational controls, and greater customization. You can find a full list of the new features here. While I believe this release to be a significant improvement over the last, it's nonetheless nowhere near the end of the line for VandalProof. Thanks to Rob Church, I now have an account on test.wikipedia.org with SysOp rights and have already been hard at work incorporating administrative tools into VandalProof, which I plan to make available in the near future. An example of one such SysOp tool that I'm working on incorporating is my simple history merge tool, which simplifies the process of performing history merges from one article into another. Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to download and install version 1.2 and take it out for a test-drive. As always, your suggestions for improvement are always appreciated, and I hope that you will find this new version useful. Happy editing! --AmiDaniel (talk) 02:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Dr. McNinja
Thank you for endorsing undeletion! I was unaware that Dr. mcNinja was a memeber of Dayfree Press--I've added that to the article draft (if you find any other purtinent info, please feel free to add it directly to the article). I hope this one pulls through. ~ Porphyric Hemophiliac   §  22:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot
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mongol expansion
thanks! I like your userpage motto by the way, it especially is true if you look through random pages --Astrokey 44 10:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Solicitud de ayuda a AMA
Hola, gracias por tu ayuda.

El caso es que he sido bloqueado de forma permanente (infinito) en la es.wikipedia por el usuario Dodo. En la es.wikipedia no existe ningún mecanismo de resolución de conflictos. Me he dirigido al usuario Angela de Meta para consultarle que podía hacer sobre este tema y su respuesta viene a ser que las wiki locales son autónomas. Creo que esto está en contradicción con las bases de Wikipedia, aunque parece acorde con la definición de usuarios retirados

El usuario Dodo, además de ser bibliotecario, tiene un peso específico muy importante en es.wikipedia y en las acciones del resto de bibliotecarios.

Me he dirigido a este usuario, de acuerdo con las instrucciones que se dan al usuario que ha sido bloqueado cuando intenta editar, a través del IRC y allí me han insultado y me han bloqueado.

He solicitado que se retirasen de mi página de usuario los datos personales y solo han sido retirados tras mediación de otro bibliotecario en base a mi "Derecho a desaparecer" sin embargo no han retirado ni mi página de discusión ni me permiten editarla. De esta forma han realizado una redirección de mi página de usuario a un comentario en el que se indica que yo he solictado retirarme de Wikipedia. Lo cual no es cierto.

La causa por la que he sido bloqueado no es la de vandalismo trivial sino la interpretación que se aplica de forma sistemática a todas las personas que discuten alguna política en es.wikipedia aunque bien es cierto que en alguna ocasión debido al círculo vicioso he incurrido en alguna edición que pudiera ser objeto de penalización.

Te agradecería tu mediación, en la medida de lo posible. Caso de que sean necesarias más referencias o documentación te las facilitaré con mucho gusto.

Manuel Joseph contribuciones  Mjoseph 15:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

AMA Roll Call
There is currently an AMA Roll Call going on. Please visit the page and sign your name to indicate whether or not you're still active. :-) אמר Steve Caruso ( desk / poll ) 17:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear BDD, please email me
Dear BDD,

Can you please email me? My email address is MichaelDWolok@aol.com    This is not spam. I am sending this email to four other advocates today. I am having a hard time with Wikipedia and am looking for an advocate with a lot of experience with Wikipedia to help me. Thank you. Email: MichaelDWolok@aol.com

Michael D. Wolok 18:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Felipe Calderón
If it's frivolous then I'm sure you will have no trouble providing a source, preferably an English language one. I have not reverted your edit because I am no longer allowed to edit without being blocked. Regards, freestylefrappe 02:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Association of Members' Advocates
Hi, you are receiving this message because you have listed yourself as an active member of WP:AMA. If you aren't currently accepting inquiries for AMA, or if you have resigned, please de-list yourself from AMA Members. If you are still active, please consider tending to any new requests that may appear on Category:AMA Requests for Assistance. We're going to put AMA on wheels. :) Sorry for the template spamming - we're just trying to update our records, after we had a huge backlog earlier in the week (if you've been taking cases, then sorry, and please ignore this :)). Again, sorry, and thanks! M a  rtinp23  20:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

User:152.163.100.201
This user is an AOL user, and not only is it sometimes shared by many different people, but every time someone logs back into AOL, their IP changes. BAnning someone over an offense has no merit, because they can just sign back out and sign in again (I've seen it happen before); what's more, it would ban many someone elses. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 16:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that... my problem was that the casual user looking at that page would get an illusion of leniency towards vandals. Maybe AOL users shouldn't be given "ultimatum"-type warnings. You don't threaten someone with banning if you won't actually ban them, mm? --BDD 21:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Monarchies/Republics
A monarchy differs from a republic in that a monarch is the head of state. Like here in the UK: we may elect a government but Her Maj technically wields supreme executive power. Not like the good ol' US of A of course, where a system of checks and balances ensure President Dubya wields supreme executive... er... never mind. --81.79.29.103 02:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you an AMA member
Are you an AMA member? If so please make sure your name is on the membership list. --CyclePat 04:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Premier League Top Scorers
Well if we included those who scored fewer goals and gave fewer assists, we'd end up with way more than the top 10: it'll be like the top 20. When the season goes on and more goals are scored, then it'll be clearer, as you said. Right now it's best to stay less than 10 rather to have way more. The does (talk) 15:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Respectfully, I disagree. It helps to know who's in the 4-goal range, since it makes it easier to move someone up when he scores his fifth. And at this point, when just one of them does so, we're at an even top 10 with everyone who's scored 5 and up and we're both happy. It probably won't happy today or tomorrow, but next week if any one of those 6 players scores, we're good. Or even if someone at 3 goals gets really active. So what do you say? Perhaps we can agree that the table won't look the way we'd like it to early on, but err on the side of more, rather than less, information? I think that's a good overall Wikipedian principle. --BDD (talk) 15:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I see someone added a note with the 4-goal scorers. I can live with this compromise, but I think you'll see if you look at previous league tables, the convention is to include the top 10 scorers regardless of whether it's ten men or not. Hopefully a few goals next week solve the problem for us. --BDD (talk) 15:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Appearances in CL top goalscorers reply
Hey,

I'm sorry, but minutes played is not there to offer insight on scoring frequency. It's there as a method of ranking. If two players have scored 5 goals, the player that has played the least amount of minutes played gets placed higher. Appearances are not used for that purpose, which is why I removed the column. Digirami (talk) 23:22, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm quite sure it serves both purposes. It has a function in the rankings, yes, but it need not. Look at the corresponding table in this season's Premier League--there really isn't any reason we couldn't just rank players alphabetically who have the same number of goals. And as long as we record minutes played, it's helpful to include a number of appearances. After a while, the minute counts just get to be very big numbers. And we frequently compare appearances to goals scored on an individual level; it's prominently displayed in the player templates, even for goalkeepers. --BDD (talk) 00:24, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It does not. It is clear from the UEFA's site that minutes are used for ranking purposes. When players are tied in the number of goals scored, the player with the least amount of minutes played gets ranked higher. Appearances do not even show up in their goalscorers list. If minutes did not matter, then yes, alphabetical order for players with the same number of goals is the logical choice. Digirami (talk) 04:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, but while the UEFA table is the primary source for ours, it's not just a copy. This is Wikipedia! We're going to have more information than just about anyone else anyway. What's wrong with including a statistic as basic and important as appearances? --BDD (talk) 04:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not important in this case because it is not used the purpose of ranking. Including it would also be considered original research, and that's a no-no. Digirami (talk) 04:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Player nationality and club affiliation aren't used for ranking, but we include them. Also, appearances are readily available from the UEFA site, so it really doesn't even come close to violating Wikipedia's policy against original research. --BDD (talk) 05:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * But appearance count does. Digirami (talk) 06:24, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How? Click any player's name in that same table and you'll get his appearance count. It's not a number I or anyone else just made up or is guessing at. --BDD (talk) 15:34, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not all players. And it also boderline against WP:NOT. The only stats should be in that table are those pertinent to ranking. Appearances do not factor in to it. Anything else is extra fluff. Digirami (talk) 19:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
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 * Didn't even think of that. Thank you, helpful bot! --BDD (talk) 16:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
Hi. When you recently edited Genesee, Idaho, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Genesee (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 * Thanks, bot! This one was intentional. I'd say there's a general Genesee area in New York not well reflected by any individual link on that disambiguation page.--BDD (talk) 17:25, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your support on Talk:Unfulfilled religious predictions. What a hopeless article that is. Phiwum (talk) 14:50, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested Move for Artificial Intelligence
Isn't AI a proper noun as it is a unique field of study? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Varagrawal (talk • contribs) 04:37, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That's generally not the sort of thing we'd capitalize here. Compare, perhaps, international relations, or organic chemistry. You may see such capitalization in a course catalog, to refer to a specific class on the topic, but otherwise, this capitalization calls to mind an organization. Lowercase is the default for a topic, including fields of study. --BDD (talk) 15:02, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

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Public outcry
Redirects should be nominated at WP:RFD, not WP:AFD. I moved it there for you. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:56, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposal for Government / Political system
Hi Beland, I noticed you didn't create a discussion section for your proposed merger of Political system into Government. I thought you might want to know another user began a section in opposition to your proposal. I thought you might want to give some of your reasons. As such—perhaps just because the only respondents so far are opposed—it's hard to see it going anywhere. --BDD (talk) 02:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up! -- Beland (talk) 08:11, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

GOCE request completion
Hi, I saw your edit summary asking if it matters whether you use done or completed. No, it doesn't matter how you signal the completion, so long as I can spot it. Thanks for asking. Rgds, --Stfg (talk) 21:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I didn't really expect anyone to answer. :) --BDD (talk) 22:31, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Just saw your HTML comment in the leaderboard. Yes, 10K counts as 2, and 22990 (sheesh!) will count as 4. If you survive it :)) --Stfg (talk) 13:21, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Seamus incident dispute resolution
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Seamus incident". Thank you. HHIAdm (talk) 04:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Haitian Creole
You previously made a comment about a move request Talk:Haitian Creole language. Just to let you know that Haitian Creole people was moved to Haitian people after a related move request in case this affects your opinion in the former case. —  AjaxSmack  03:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

For the see also section

 * List of Indian snacks

Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:37, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --BDD (talk) 20:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Hi, I left you a message on my talk page.

Thx for working on the article. -- Wusten  fuchs  15:32, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Thermopylae
Just visited your user page. I'm not Greek myself (though my RL name forces me to explain that some folks), but I too was into the Battle of Thermopylae long before it was cool. It's always been near the top of my list of tremendous Ancient History episodes, thanks to a history teacher whose emotional telling of it was like a work of interpretive literature. Good to run across another whose historical knowledge antedated computer-enhanced cinematography. Happy editing! HuskyHuskie (talk) 02:29, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Twitter issue
As you had participated in the previous AfD, your views would be welcome here Talk:Use_of_Twitter_by_celebrities_and_politicians. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 16:32, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
&mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 16:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Category renaming fiasco
Hi. Thanks for helping straighten out the mess I made. I usually screw up stuff like renaming requests, etc.  Quis separabit?  17:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Deletion debates
I have to admit, deletion debates are where I get in the most trouble as a Wikipedian. I never have trouble collaborating outside of deletion debates, for the most part. Every time one arises, I tell myself, "Maybe I shouldn't even participate in this, because I'll get in trouble." But then I say, "Well, why not, I can just civilly express my opinion, and make a useful contribution to the discussion." But somehow it tends to go awry. Maybe it's partly because I create and edit articles on controversial subjects, and people's feelings and biases (including mine) end up tainting the discussion with emotion and personal opinion, when it really should just be dispassionate application of policy and collaboration to salvage the article, if it can be. I'm not really sure what to do about that, because if I create articles, then I am inevitably going to end up dealing with AfD at some point.

Also, people frequently say, "Policy says x," and then I ask where it says that, and they get offended. I suppose they think I'm wikilawyering, which maybe I am. But people try to have it both ways. On the one hand, they want to use policy to play wikiprosecutor, but then I can't point to the policy (or lack thereof) as a defense. If the issue is courtesy rather than policy, then I think people should say upfront that it's a matter of courtesy rather than policy. Although in this case I think there may have simply been some confusion about policy rather than an attempt to have a double standard.

Anyway, that article is probably going down in flames, but I don't see why it needs to when the information is so reliably sourced as to meet the WP:GNG. There must be a place on Wikipedia for the information somewhere, no? Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. It kinda blows when you go to the trouble to look up a whole bunch of mainstream media sources, which if not the gold standard of notability (academic journals seem to get more respect) are at least the silver standard, and the article still gets deleted. Leucosticte (talk) 17:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That wikilawyering issue is a tricky one. Plenty of people wave around a bunch of initialisms like it's an alphabet soup contest. But the user you responded to on that AFD should have pointed somewhere instead of just saying "I think that's policy." But templates like the one you used are bound to feel like an attack when you respond with one alone. It may seem pedantic, but a quick statement like, "I'm not familiar with that policy—which one are you referring to?" is going to sound much more civil (even if you don't mean it!).


 * As for the article itself, did you know you can create a draft article in your own user namespace? See WP:UPYES under "Work in progress or material that you may come back to in future." Just open a page like User:Leucosticte/Controversial cases involving sex offenses and you'll have effectively unlimited time to hone an article that will pass muster. You can even get other editors to help you, and eventually launch it into main space when you think it's ready. My warning: policies with legal foundations, such as WP:BLP, may still apply to such pages, though I'm not sure. --BDD (talk) 17:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The downside is that it's not possible to wikilink from mainspace to the article in userspace. Traffic to the article aids collaboration on it, and incoming wikilinks, google hits and mainspace search results assist with getting traffic to it. Of course, traffic to an article that isn't yet up to par is exactly what the immediatists and/or deletionists want to prevent. It's kind of a catch-22, because without adequate collaboration, it may never get up to par. Also, I think in this case, the BLP concerns would have been issue even in userspace, and it could have ended up at WP:MFD, a decidedly unfriendly environment. I of course don't agree with the BLP concerns, because Rodriguez has already received a lot of media coverage, so it's no secret from the Internet what his history is.


 * The template was a bit of an attempt to inject humor into the situation, but I suppose humor in AfDs was deprecated a long time ago, since a lot of users got offended by whimsically-worded votes. Leucosticte (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your response
I've tried to address your concerns with an update to my FAQ at User:Born2cycle/FAQ. --Born2cycle (talk) 18:49, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Upcoming RM
Perhaps the RMs I am working on are of interest to you: User:Kauffner/RM incubator. Kauffner (talk) 13:11, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

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DYK for Self-deportation
Yngvadottir (talk) 16:04, 2 July 2012 (UTC)