User talk:BEDownes

Hi, my name is Barry Downes and I'm totally new to the creation or editing of Wikipedia pages. I am working on greatly revising and expanding a page on my grandfather, Jerome Myers. I may stumble a bit in the early stages, but I have tried to do my homework. And there is a fair amount of that to do. Please let me know if there's anything I'm doing wrong. BEDownes (talk) 18:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Jerome Myers - Montage 3 of New York Scenes.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Jerome Myers - Montage 3 of New York Scenes.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. MGA73 (talk) 21:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Graphic sizes change quite a bit if viewing in Windows (it is a smaller size) vs. a Mac (where it is much larger)
Hi, I just discovered this problem a few days ago. It is on the Jerome Myers page which I put together as best I could a few months ago. Actually it turned out to be much more than I had hoped for. My only problem at the moment - still close to a novice is trying to have the graphic for three montage pictures on the page appears as large on Windows computers as it does on the Mac. Both systems I am assuming are using the same code for display, but the resulting graphics sizes are quite different. Since they are collages of a group of pictures they really need the extra size that the Mac displays. Is there anything I can do to fix the problem?



I suspect I'm not the first person to run into the issue. By the way, I did try this with two different computers running Mac using two versions of its system, one being system 9.2 the other being system 10.4. For my Windows viewing I tried it both using XP as well on the newer System 7. The problem showed up on all the tests. Thank you for any help you might be able to give me.

BEDownes (talk) 22:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
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Ethel Myers and other artist articles
Hi there, I was editing Henry Fitch Taylor a little bit today, and I noticed your work, and also your recent setback in creating the Ethel Myers article. If you'd like any feedback or assistance bring Mrs. Myer's article to fruition, I am happy to help in any way I can, as I have been working on a number of articles related to Armory Show artists. Mrs. Myers was certainly notable, and I very much want to see more high quality articles about American women artists on Wikipedia. One thing to keep in mind is that, if you are a confirmed and registered user, you don't actually have to go through the "Articles for Creation" process to get a new article published. The process is mainly intended as a means for anonymous users to add new articles to the encyclopedia. However, since you started AfC with the Ethel Myers article, I guess there is no harm in continuing at this point. Anyway, let me know if I can be of any help. I think once you add more context about why Ethel Myers was important, and some references/footnotes, the article will be a very nice start. Sarasays (talk) 03:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, thank you so much for contacting me. The Ethel Myers page is coming along quite well and will be a bit of a revelation to the art world. At least as it relates to Ethel, both as a female student of Henri's as well as being someone who was quite important in his being hired as a teacher at the New York School of Art in 1902. As a student she carried on his beliefs in the "Ash Can" concept at looking at the reality of the poor on New York's Lower East Side as well elsewhere. He had to be very pleased at how her work evolved and even more so learning of her marriage to Jerome Myers who Henri so greatly admired. If you like you might take a look at the page I prepared on Jerome Myers in Wikipedia. (He happens to be my grandfather, but don't think that has prejudiced my research or writing. I'm a much tougher character than that having been doing forensic research for the last 22 years defending a large number of musical artists in an out of course. Most of the time the charges were for musical copyright infringement. "This rich guy or girl stole my song."


 * Anyway that's another world and another story. We should stay in touch. I do think you'll like what I'm in the processing of putting together on Ethel. I knew her well and she was one extraordinary woman.
 * Cheers,

--BEDownes (talk) 05:04, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Congratulations on the Jerome Myers article--I can see that you put in a lot of work. Do keep in touch and let me know how Ethel goes.  Best, --Sarasays (talk) 15:23, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Article Ethel Myers has been created
I have approved your article Ethel Myers, and it has been published. Congratulations on your hard work! You can see that I made some stylistic and content edits in order to 1) keep a neutral, unbiased, and encyclopedic tone, 2) condensed some sub-headings to allow for ease of reading and skimming, and 3) moved external links to into the main references section. I commend you for your hard work and am happy to discuss any of the changes I made if you have questions or concerns.  Best regards, -Sarasays (talk) 16:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit if you feel they have been resolved.
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 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia!  Kinkreet ~&#9829;moshi moshi&#9829;~ 23:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Virginia myers concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Virginia myers, a page you created, has not been edited in 6 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 02:09, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Reply to your Articles for Creation Help Desk question
Hello, BEDownes! I'm Timtrent. I have replied to your question about a submission at the WikiProject Articles for Creation Help Desk. Fiddle  Faddle  19:11, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Draft:Virginia Myers concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Draft:Virginia Myers, a page you created, has not been edited in 6 months. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it.

You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13.

Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 01:33, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Virginia Myers


Hello, BEDownes. It has been over six months since you last edited your WP:AFC draft article submission, entitled "Virginia Myers".

The page will shortly be deleted. If you plan on editing the page to address the issues raised when it was declined and resubmit it, simply and remove the  or  code. Please note that Articles for Creation is not for indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you want to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by one of two methods (don't do both): 1) follow the instructions at WP:REFUND/G13, or 2) copy this code:, paste it in the edit box at this link , and click "Save page". An administrator will in most cases undelete the submission.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. JMHamo (talk) 20:54, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Virginia Myers has been accepted
 Virginia Myers, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:48, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
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Help me!
Please help me with...

Working on a Wikipedia page for Virginia Myers, my mother, who it turns out (and I didn't know until a year ago,) that she was probably one of the greatest creative solo dancers that ever lived, starting at the age of about 3. I had edited earlier Wikipedia pages on my artist grandfather, Jerome Myers, and another on his wife, Ethel Myers, also a significant artist in her own rights. She had a major success with her small sculptures exhibited at the famous 1913 Armory Show in New York. Volunteers at Wikipedia had been very helpful, particularly Sarasays, in getting my articles in shape.

I had been hoping to get a response from her about the new Wikipedia subject. This time I'm just a bit uncomfortable (as a close relative) to be talking about a mother in the terms that properly capture who she was and what she accomplished. The Internet site which I did create and contains much of the detailed documentation that is now part of the permanent Virginia Myers Collection at the Jerome Robbins Dance Library at Lincoln Center.

Since I had been delayed in developing anything more than the early stages of the Wikipedia page, I was notified it was no longer considered an active subject in less I or somewhat got back to it. I can certainly add a great deal more material to it. Here is the URL to the site:

Virginia Dances

Thanks for any input you might be able to give me.

BEDownes (talk) 21:05, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello there, BEDownes. Reading over this help request, there doesn't seem to be a specific question that has been asked. As the IRC helpers indicated when you visited the -help channel, if you want to make a general plea for recruiting other editors to help in editing an article, a related WikiProject page would probably be your best bet. The help request template is for answering specific questions regarding editing practises, and clarifying Wikipedia policies and guidelines. As an aside, you're doing an excellent job on here, by the way. Good luck on your articles! Quinto Simmaco (talk) 22:32, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Help me!
Someone appears to believe a page I created with information, quotes, excerpts from newspapers and other articles relating to my grandfather, the artist, Jerome Myers, is incorrect or biased in some respects. The top of the page contains the following notice "The neutrality of this article is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved."

I have tried to find on my talk page any reference to what the visitor found objectionable or biased. Looking at the instructions for posting such a complaint, it seems whoever has such a complaint should be identifying on this page so I have some way to evaluate the merit of their concern. Anytime anyone is creating a page about a relative, known or otherwise, there could certainly be a danger of some sort of bias. I have been working as an expert researcher and preparing documents for major trials for more than 25 years. I don't know any adversarial environment than is any tougher than a courtroom when you present evidence. I have been very aware in what I presented to Wikipedia that it should be carefully documented and not just an opinion of mine.

For instance, the actual evidence I am gathering about Jerome Myers and what he wrote and illustrated in his work about the lower East Side almost surely confirms that he was probably the greatest artist-historian we ever had of that immigrant world that existed from 1890 to 1940 when he died. Because of a lot of really bad research in this period, much of the art world educated from the late 1940's to today would strongly disagree with my opinion. That's understandable, but unfortunately they did none (or very little) of the fact checking I did as a professional researcher into Jerome's career and legitimate accomplishments from 1890 to his death in 1940. One of the most important sources of this information were the many reviews written by the leading art critics in those early years of, not just Jerome's work, but how it reflected the daily life of the immigrants in the lower East Side which was the central focus of his entire career.

But I would certainly not make that sort of personal observation in any article unless a number of independent authorities became convinced of that view and the evidence that supports it. In particular, they would have had to read Jerome's invaluable autobiography "Artist In Manhattan" which is not just a story of his life, but also a story in words and pictures of that extraordinary world of the lower East Side. For most Americans their view of their immigrant beginnings was just of a place of overcrowded tenements and poverty and lives exploited as new immigrants often are. The reality was so much more than just crowded rooms and little money. It was also a world that was often joyous and filled with opportunity. Many of these immigrants came from small villages where there was often little or no work to be found, hunger was often part of every day life, and their children were forced to work as soon as possible to help the family survive. Often their children had no schools to go to in which to get an education of any sort. When those immigrants who were brave enough or desperate enough to leave their towns or villages to make the often long journey to where the large ships packed in as many passengers as was humanly possible they usually faced a voyage to New York of extreme discomfort. But then came the emotion of the Statue of Liberty and their first glimpse of one of the great cities of the world with buildings that touched the sky and a sense of incredible life. They struggled through the processing at Ellis Island, but that was usually no more than a day or two and at least they were off the damn boat and getting better food.

Maybe there might be a relative to meet them when the ferry dropped them off in Manhattan, or many of them managed to get a cab ride to an address they had of a friend or relative in the Lower East Side. What an experience that had to be. There were crowds of people and noise everywhere. Many languages being spoken and all manner of pushcarts filled with all kinds of things, including foods of all sorts. They would quickly learn that almost anybody could find some kind of work to do on the Lower East Side. Women, or men as well, could do piece work at home, or work in sweat shops to help supply the ever growing needs of stores for all manner of clothes and other personal items. Food was usually in abundant supply on pushcarts everywhere. One might also make an arrangement with one of the pushcart owners to supply homemade bread or cakes to them on a daily basis. One might start a business doing all sorts of repairs if one had those sort of skills. So many possibilities in that sort of dynamic society with a continuing flow of tourists coming into the area since it was already quite famous as a place to visit and also a place to often buy things at a very modest price.

But if you want to talk about the most important product to be seen on the lower East Side of New York ii was children. Masses of children all over the place. Laughing and playing and going to school. Yes, every child in New York City was entitled to a free education. There was a headline in one of the major newspaper I spotted around 1901. It was announcing that there were 500,000 children (I need to check that number, but it was a very large one) enrolled for school that year in the city. How many of those were children of immigrants. Perhaps 80% of these kids having escaped from the poverty and desperation of the places they had come from were now having a chance they would never had had in their life to be properly educated! And it didn't matter there nationality or their religion, it was theirs to take. That's a true success story of what America stood for in those days! It's the story I want to get out to the public, but not yet, and not in Wikipedia.

MOST IMPORTANT THIS ISSUE OF NEUTRALITY WAS EXTREMELY VALUABLE BECAUSE IT WAS APPLIED TO THE MYERS' ARTICLE. OTHERWISE I WOULD NEVER HAVE SOUNDED AN ALARM. AND IT GOING TO BE A DAMN LOUD ALARM THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE IMMEDIATELY, IF NOT SOONER, THE PROCEDURE THE IS CURRENTLY IN PLACE TO IDENTIFY A NEUTRALITY ISSUE. I'LL CONTACT WIKIPEDIA WHEN I GET BACK FROM LUNCH.

Still I first have to convince the art world of that and also convince the major historians who picture the lower East Side as just a place of poverty and exploitation of new immigrants and where there was little joy or happiness in the new life they found in the crowded streets of this extraordinary part of New York. It's an important story that needs to be told for all of us to better understand our heritage, and if you're as good a researcher as I am, you might very well agree with much of the proof I already have.

Anyway if you can help find who this person is or what he or she may be complaining about I would be most grateful. I want to know if I've been loading the dice. It's very important to me that I don't fall into that trap. I will treat any comments that person may want to make with total respect. I'm not here to get in a fight. I simply want to learn. Thank you, Barry Downes

BEDownes (talk) 23:27, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I have left a note for Fdssdf, the editor who tagged the article, and asked them to explain their reasoning at the article's talk page. Huon (talk) 00:33, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello, BEDownes. When I tagged the Jerome Myers, I did not anticipate that explaining it in the talk page would be necessary, but I misjudged that. The tagging of neutrality is not a grievous blow to an article — far from it: Thousands of Wikipedia articles have their neutrality questioned by editors; it's the nature of Wikipedia's open source. The article in question, apart from some prose issues, puts too much article weight on reviews, quoted material and the photo gallery. They are minor issues, and we can move this discussion to the article's talk page, if you would prefer it.  fds  Talk 18:00, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I started a neutrality thread in Jerome Myers' talk page.  fds  Talk 18:14, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

I have encountered a very serious problem with the methodology Wikipedia handles the issue of tagging of neutrality to articles. I am a highly trained researcher and investigator having two companies I created that have done extensive work during the last 25 years for many major law firms in developing proper documentation for presentation of evidence in courts. I am also a lifetime member of the Writers Guild of America, East and have produced and/or written many television specials. Also have written television scripting for two American Presidents, neither of whom were Democrats, which meant they were on the opposite side of the fence from my political inclinations. Still no conflicts occurred. I have great affection and belief in all that Wikipedia has and will accomplish. That's why it's important I pipe up now.

--BEDownes (talk) 18:53, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


 * What administrative action are you requesting here? Administrators on Wikipedia have the ability to block users, delete pages (and review deleted material), override certain restrictions and a few other things. We do not make or dicate Wikipedia policies and guidelines; that is the community's role. If you have concerns about a Wikipedia policy the correct place to raise them would be on the talk page of the appropriate policy, or at the dedicated policy discussion board. Yunshui 雲 水 08:39, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)