User talk:BFP1

Welcome!
Hello, BFP1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
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Hello, I have expanded a stub on an artist called Charles Stuart. As my editng is rusty it would be worth checking the extensive changes that I have made and ensuring that I have not broken any rules. A previous article on this artist (who was thought to be a different person) was deleted in 2014. BFP1BFP1 (talk) 13:08, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!
I have edited the stub article Paul-Leon Jazet. Hopefully it will no longer be considered a stub. I am only an amateur occasional editor and forget the Wikipedia rules between edits. The article's layout could be improved by making the list more concise.BFP1BFP1 (talk) 07:26, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: John James Wilson (painter) (January 24)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dial911 was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:John James Wilson (painter) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:John James Wilson (painter), click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and save.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:John_James_Wilson_(painter) Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dial911&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:John_James_Wilson_(painter) reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Dial911 (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: John James Wilson (painter) has been accepted
 John James Wilson (painter), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=John_James_Wilson_(painter) help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Need more secondary sources at John James Wilson (painter)
The subject meets Notability, so even though the draft isn't perfect I've gone ahead and approved it. I took a quick glance at GoogleBooks and found a number of interesting mentions of Wilson, so if you want to address the sourcing issue, I suggest searching there, finding a few interesting facts from serious art history publications, and cite those facts in the article. If I understand UK copyright correctly, JJW's works should be out-of-copyright by now, so feel free to add any to the page if that's the case (you can upload them to Wikimedia Commons as a repository if they are clearly out of copyright). Ditto for any contemporary portraits of JJW himself, which would be a great addition to the infobox. Nice work finding a lesser-known Scottish artist and compiling coverage! MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks MatthewVanitas. Your suggestions are helpful and I will continue to endeavour to improve the article.BFP1BFP1 (talk) 07:33, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I have just noticed that the introduced Categories: Scottish painters is incorrect. JJ Wilson was not Scottish. Unlike his father, he was born in London and lived in England all his life as indicated in the text. Also in the External links the number 4 should be 18 as in the text. I'm not sure how to correct these introduced changes. Thanks again BFP1BFP1 (talk) 10:05, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Visual arts
Hi ,

I saw your work on articles related to visual art and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to the WikiProject Visual arts talk page, which is a noticeboard for Wikipedia's fine arts coverage. It's a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to artists and fine arts. Take a look for yourself!

And if you're looking for other juicy places to edit, consider adopting a cleanup category or participating in one of our current formal discussions.

Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Welcome to Wikipedia! Hope to see you around. czar 23:44, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello Czar, I have just had an article on John James Wilson (painter) published https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Wilson_(painter) which I would like to improve. Firstly, during the acceptance editing, some errors were introduced. The introduced Categories: Scottish painters is incorrect. JJ Wilson was not Scottish. Unlike his father, he was born in London and lived in England all his life as indicated in the text. Also in the External links the number 4 should be 18 as in the text. I'm not sure how to correct these introduced changes. Secondly, I would like to add some photos of the artist's paintings which are in the public domain (he died in 1875). Examples of web sites that have suitable paintings are as follows.

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/view_as/grid/search/makers:john-james-wilson-18181875

http://prints.rmg.co.uk/artist/28277/john-james-wilson

http://artist.christies.com/John-James-Wilson--51394.aspx

This is a standard procedure for articles of this type. As a novice it would be helpful if you could talk me through this procedure without too much Wikijargon. A problem I encountered with the upload Wizard was one the early stages was to 'Browse'. This then listed all the files on my PC, when what I wanted was to upload from the web.

Finally, how do I remove the extra unnecessary BFP1 from my signature?BFP1BFP1 (talk) 09:59, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks Czar for correcting the introduced editing errors. I have researched and realise that I need the following template to indicate public domain {PD-Art|PD-old-auto-1923|deathyear=1875}} for each painting uploaded. It remains to target online paintings and upload them to suitable locations (with titles) in the article. It may be that the Artuk web site may be the best source although, I'm not sure if additional restrictions apply. JJ Wilson's father is on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson_(painter)) and has a photo from his page on Artuk. So it seems a feasible option. BFP1BFP1 (talk) 16:57, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi! Apologies for the... very late reply but I'm just seeing your second reply now. Looks like you got this and the signature sorted out but let me know if I can help further? You can send me a notification by using the following wikicode: . Alternatively, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts is a great place to ask an arts-focused user group any question. czar  13:33, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Adding photos via the Upload Wizard and Wikimedia
I wrote an article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Wilson_(painter), about a Victorian artist (who died in 1875) to which I would like to add a photo. This seems a common procedure. An auctioneer has kindly sent me a photo of a painting that he sold. This painting is now on my PC and I would like to upload it to include in my article. I was told that this is best done using the Upload Wizard. The following is my progress to date

Upload photo of painting: OK

Source: Name and address of auctioneer OK

Author: Name of painter OK

Copyright holder etc: I put in ''Creative Commons CCO waiver (release all rights like public domain) OK?

Title: Put in OK

Description: Oil on canvas etc OK

Date created: 1871 OK

Categories: Nineteenth Century English painter. BLOCK don't know how to put this in! Unlike other entries it can't be just typed.

The trouble with the Wizard format is that you don't know what problems lie ahead on the next page. For instance I am told that I will have to use this format somewhere. A complete list of the questions laid out in an example would be useful (is there one?).

I would appreciate some help with this, which to many will seem a rather mundane, taskBJP1BFP1 (talk) 14:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I managed to get it on Wikimedia! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_approaching_storm,_South_Coast_possibly_off_Folkestone.jpg

I will now research how to insert the photo into the article.BJP1BFP1 (talk) 16:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I have now successfully inserted the photo (I hope). BFP1BFP1 (talk) 10:14, 14 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I would like to alter the title of the illustrated painting which is in the public domain and in Wikimedia Commons. The new one would replace the rather speculative title given at the most recent auction, with one given at an earlier auction that gives the actual location of the image. The new title would be Fecamp Head, Normandy from Sotheby's Belgravia  8 April, 1975. How do I do this? BFP1BFP1 (talk) 12:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

How to find sources; some tips and links
Moved from my User page, as I thought it would be more findable and useful to you here. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 17:28, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

'''How did you find an artist in 'British canvas, stretcher and panel suppliers' marks'? '''

You swiftly found the painter John James Wilson in this resource for me on May 2. It was much appreciated. Could you tell me the method used as I would like to use it to locate other painters? BFP1BFP1 (talk) 07:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, I searched Google for what looked like a publication (from the Wikimedia Commons description): "Sotheby's Belgravia, 8 April 1975" and found result on page 2. Adding lot 80, e.g., "Sotheby's Belgravia, 8 April 1975, lot 80" would make it the third hit, but I wanted to cast a wide net, so just went with name and date of publication.


 * In the PDF, I used Control-F (Find) to quickly zero in on the artist name.


 * As you recall, the filename indicates a multi-volume work. You can find most, if not all, volumes by searching Google for "british canvas, stretcher and panel suppliers' marks" - I couldn't find them using npg.org.uk site search.


 * Check out Resource Exchange (WP:RX) if you ever get stuck finding a particular source that you can describe accurately but can't access and if found it will be emailed to you via wiki mail. (Enable "Allow other users to email me" in your Preferences, linked at top of this page. Don't ever post your email address.)


 * Also, see the resources available for the asking at The Wikipedia Library (WP:TWL) - I think you need 500 edits to qualify for getting online database access to scholarly resources. JSTOR is particularly awesome for the humanities; I use it daily.


 * Keep up the good work, keep coming back to The Teahouse (WP:TEA) and do consider editing your User page by clicking on your red user name and editing it to say something you don't mind making public knowledge, e.g., "I'm interested in ..." Don't use your real name or anything you don't want out there for all time. This looks fun, too: User page design center - Add some Commons art! It's your page. All the best. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 17:28, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

==== Thanks Paul for your detailed and helpful reply. I'll experiment with your suggestions. The problem is that as as an occasional novice editor I forget, between times, all the Wiki procedures and jargon. I'll copy and save your reply.

Your reply was so quick and informative that I assumed that you were very familiar with the source about artists' suppliers. This source (https://www.npg.org.uk/research/programmes/directory-of-suppliers.php) is designed mainly to locate suppliers but in paragraph five of the web page it says

5. If you wish to find a particular collection, artist or material, you can use a search engine. Enter your search term, followed by site:https://www.npg.org.uk/research/. You can further narrow your results by adding to the search: “British artists' suppliers”.

However, I found a problem in that it does not indicate the punctuation required when adding the additional words. Maybe I'm being stupid. Anyway, I'll try contacting the site directly with this query. Thanks again.BFP1BFP1 (talk) 07:56, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Help me!
BFP1 (talk) 22:43, 29 October 2019 (UTC)BFP1
 * Were wanting to ask about submitting your sandbox? There's a button now, thanks to another editor.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 23:08, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Moving articles
Responding to your question, you can see some guides on Help:How to move a page. You just click on the button "More" in the upper right corner, then "Move". The first field needs to be changed to "(article)".

Regarding the article on William Oliver, I removed one source to a self-published Wiki geneology site, we can't cite self-published sources because they aren't reliable. Royal Academy entries are primary sources, so it would be good to add some secondary sources which contain significant coverage of this artist. If he has been mentioned in some books or academic art publications, summarizing what those sources say would be quite good.

– Thjarkur (talk) 14:01, 30 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks Thjarkur. Your early editing is much appreciated. Regarding secondary sources, I have cited two more reference books (refs 3 and 6) to complement primary sources. I have also added more locations for the secondary sources. For instance, the 'Victorian Painters' book reference indicates 1867fl which is the date when the artist's work started to flourish. An issue is that sometimes primary sources are required to correct the secondary and tertiary sources.

As the Wiki article which deals with genealogy could be unreliable, could things like actual census and birth certificate references be considered acceptable? Otherwise I will reduce the relevant section.

Finally, a problem with the new title is that there is another well known Victorian painter (no relation) called William Oliver (1805-1852) which could result in confusion. RegardsBFP1 (talk) 18:27, 30 October 2019 (UTC)BJP1


 * Apologies Thjarkur for the untidy formatting above. I forgot to preview it.BFP1 (talk) 18:36, 30 October 2019 (UTC)BJP1

Your submission at Articles for creation: William Oliver (artist, born 1823) has been accepted
 William Oliver (artist, born 1823), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Theroadislong (talk) 21:31, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=William_Oliver_(artist,_born_1823) help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Creating draft articles
When creating draft articles please could you start with a fresh page, it is very confusing to find that looking at the history of William Oliver (artist, born 1823) the article began life as a draft for another article. Theroadislong (talk) 16:37, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Apologies Theroadislong. I have looked at the history and see what you mean. I obviously did not know how to start a fresh page. I will, if the situation arises, do so in future. BFP1 (talk) 17:11, 17 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello again Theroadislong. Unfortunately, I am only a sporadic editor on Wikipedia and I forget the rules between times. I think the above problem may have occurred when I deleted the sandbox of a previoous article and used the space to draft a new article (I may have even also used it for drafting edits for other editor's articles!). I presume I should have opened a new sandbox by opening a fresh page for the new draft article. How should I have done this? Regarding drafting there seem to be the User page and sandbox options. Could you clarify the differences? Is it that sandboxes are always linked to specific articles and User pages are not? I don't want to cause more problems for regular editors who are the backbone of Wikipedia. BFP1 (talk) 08:40, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

November 2019
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from William Oliver (artist) into another page. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g.,. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted copied template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Copying within Wikipedia. '' I see you've been seeking answers at the Teahouse, but I don't think they've necessarily addressed the problem on your user page. When you copied the text from William Oliver (artist) to your user page User:BFP1, you did not provide attribution, as required. I realize this may seem like a small thing, but on Wikipedia, it is quite important that the copyright requirements are followed - if we don't do this diligently, it could damage the encyclopedia. The other problem is that your user page is a place for you to write a few things about yourself and your Wikipedia editing; it is not a place to draft articles.''  — jmcgnh (talk)  (contribs) 08:51, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I should have been more direct about what you could do to remedy this situation. Your account is auto-confirmed now, so you have the ability to MOVE your user page to a subpage of your user space, for example, User:BFP1/William Oliver (artist) - working (that link will show as red until the file is created). That will leave behind a redirect from the old location to the new location. You can then find your way back to this redirect and edit the contents of the page to your liking, replacing the REDIRECT directive with whatever you like.
 * So how to get back? After the move, if you click on a link to your user page like this one: User:BFP1 it will take you to the moved page. At the very top there will be a message "Redirected from ..." and it's the link presented there, in that redirect message, that you can click on to get back to your original user page location. I hope this helps.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 09:01, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you jmcgnh. As a periodic editor I find the arcane rules of Wikipedia complex and I forget them between periods. All wanted was to find a space where I could practice an edit, before cutting and pasting it into an article. If it is one that I plan to create it seems that it should be the sandbox (as long as a fresh page has been created). If the article such as a stub, which has been created by someone else, using the sandbox results in a composite history (a confusing list of edits that I have have made in other articles) in any subsequent articles that I create or edit. I thought that the User:BFP1 space provided this (see discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Editing_multple_articles_caused_a_composite_history). But now you are indicating that a new sub-page should be used. I will do this in  future.
 * You mention 'licensing' above. Is that to do with the use of non-free material ( see discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1034#Reducing_an_infobox_image_to_a_thumbnail_size)? I thought that was sorted and I noted the advice regarding display in a Teahouse discussion?
 * I am very grateful to all the editors who have helped me and I will copy all the discussions for reference in future. BFP1 (talk) 11:23, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: William Oliver, artist (1804-1853) has been accepted
 William Oliver, artist (1804-1853), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=William_Oliver,_artist_(1804-1853) help desk] . Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Thanks again, and happy editing! Star  Mississippi  13:26, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for dealing with this so promptly BFP1 (talk) 16:19, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Great article. Grateful to @Vycl1994 for their help in the disambiguating as it wasn't clear what the best solution was. Star   Mississippi  16:27, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I second Star Mississippi. The AFC process went by quickly for this article because it was written well. Fantastic work! Vycl1994 (talk) 16:33, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Re disambiguating, a good suggestion on the Teahouse was:
 * William Oliver (artist, born 1804) instead of William Oliver, artist (1804-!853)
 * And
 * William Oliver (artist, born 1823) instead of William Oliver (artist)
 * If this is acceptable could it be changed? BFP1 (talk) 16:46, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It definitely can be changed. I leave that question of whether it's acceptable for editors more familiar with the DAB process. Star   Mississippi  18:28, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

While WP:NCDAB does permit {Article Name (occupation, born [birth year]) as a valid method of disambugation, and you will be able to find many articles titled in that manner, I find it is less concise. So when I happen to see two or more notable people that share several similar reasons for notability, I usually default to the most distinguishing characteristic of the similar people, while maintaining conciseness, which is often their lifespan. For instance, every Henry Fanshawe that has an article written about them has served as a member of parliament for a different English constituency, and they could be distinguished by their constituency, (e.g., Henry Fanshawe (MP for Westbury and Boroughbridge)), but their lifespans are known, and a concise description of them, while constituency names are of varying lengths. The use of lifespan disambiguation also avoids the long and cumbersome "Henry Fanshawe (English politician, born {XXXX}). If you do feel strongly about a move for each of the William Olivers who are English painters, the process to start a discussion is requested moves. Vycl1994 (talk) 22:20, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

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 Kate Hayllar, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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