User talk:Baffle gab1978/Archives/2011

Rehab
Hey, it's me again with the same article. Sorry to bother you again, but I nominated for FA for third time. However, User:Wikipedia Penguin thought that there are a lot of quotes and they should be shortened. Can you do it by anyway fastly, because the review can be closed :/ ? — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  22:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look, but I've no idea which quotes they don't like. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * His comment: I still think the article is a bit dense on quotes. Try shortening and re-wording some of the longer full-sentence quotes, maybe? ... What do you think? — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  23:07, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps some of the less relevant quotes can be removed altogether, but I'm less sure of eliding quotes just because they're full sentences because it's so easy to misunderstand and misquote people. Elsewhere I've found quotes that were incorrectly glossed, turning a negative statement into a positive one. It's a difficult area; I think it's important not to misquote people. I will look to see where I can remove or elide quotes. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:19, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Tomica, The Boston Globe article is a subscriber-only page; I'm not able to check exactly what Sarah Rodman wrote. Footnote/ref 49, ""Director Anthony Mandler Discusses Rihanna’s Music Video Evolution"" is not working, and neither is the original url - I'm getting a 404 error from both, so can't check the facts. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 01:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I've just finished working on some sections with quotes; mainly 'Critical reception' onwards. Some were wildly inaccurate; we can't just make quotes mean anything we like (see my comments above). I removed one altogether, re-factored and expanded others, added ellipses (I know the FAC reviewers hate ellipses but it's the proper way to do it!) where necessary and removed quote marks from minor quotes where they're not necessary. Please check my edit summaries for details. I'll do the rest over the weekend. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:39, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Tomica, Reference 49 (above) is now fixed, and I've re-archived the page; there were two misplaced hyphens after the '.com'! Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:37, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Done - hth. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, good job Baffle ;). Thank You. — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  10:13, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Baffle. I need your help again. Sorry I know that I'm boring and cracking your work, but Journalist commented on Rehab's FAC and according to him there were some prose issues. I resolved some of them, however, there are some which are too complicated for me. Can you take a look. And sorry again ... — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  10:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll have a look later tonight. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:41, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried to do something, but became a mess, I reverted to the old version, one that seems inapropriate for Journalist. I will just your magic things to the thing. — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  17:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I've done some editing to address the concerns noted in the FAC by Journalist, especially in the first two sections. I removed the text about Chicago and T&T's tour, and rewrote a few sentences there. It's difficult for me to know what else needs doing - the prose looks fine to me (save some finicky personal preferences like ellipses!). Sorry, but my magic is failing tonight! :-( Baffle gab1978 (talk) 21:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Auuu what's so wrong with the prose in the article. I really like it. There other issues posted on the FAC. Can you c/e per them. Ahh, sorry to bother you, but it's too complicated for me — Tomica1111  &bull; Question Existing?  09:37, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Regarding The Satanic Bible
Hey there, Baffle gab! Glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed what bad condition the current article on The Satanic Bible seems to be in. I noticed you removed the vast majority of the content, which is probably a good thing. I just wanted to let you know I'm working on a new article (completely from scratch) at User:GorillaWarfare/The Satanic Bible. If you want to offer any input, it would be very much appreciated. Don't feel compelled to do so, but I just thought I'd let you know in case you're interested in working with me on this. I will warn you that I'm working on it at a relatively slow pace, so don't expect it to be done in the next few days. Cheers! – GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, GorillaWarfare, thanks for your message. I found the article to be primarily an unreferenced essay comprising a list of the book's chapters and a description thereof, probably warranting an AfD nomination for original research (| diff). Considering the subject matter and its author, I'm confident of its notability and rather surprised by the lack of sources. I'm happy to help with the article, but I don't have any reference material about LaVey's works, although I have access to web sources. I didn't find many third-party references about the book, though I guess there must be some somewhere on the web. I'm happy to copy-edit as well. Your proposed version is well-sourced. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 20:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand completely about the lack of reliable sources. I've been struggling with the same issue. I do, however, have a copy of The Satanic Bible, which has been helpful. Additionally, I have access to my university's online library catalog, which includes some very helpful eBooks, and my city's library catalog. I've found a few helpful resources in those locations. Google Books also has a number of books on the subject, although the copyright restrictions on the previews can be a little bit of a hindrance. Thanks for offering to help! – GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thank you :-) (I'm sorry for my late reply - thought I'd replied already! :-0 ) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you. :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The article for which I requested you to do the copyedit has passed GA! &mdash; Commander (Ping me) 16:44, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, I'm glad it made the grade! :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk)

A barnstar for you!
You deserve this and much more. You are a gem to Wikipedia. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 14:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you both; I'm starting to become more nit-picking about articles these days, slowing down and checking things out. I'm glad it's starting to pay off! Thanks, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jivesh :) Well though you may be slowing down, you are still helping out the community and we love to award you :) Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  15:03, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

A cookie for you!
Thank you :-) It's always good to have a break; I thought I was getting too involved with a few articles and needed to disengage for a while; also I've been physically away from home, where editing would be impractical. It's good to be back. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 22:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Welcome back and thanks for those kind words. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * We will never ignore your comments simply because you are one of the best. Someone already fixed that sentence but please check it if possible. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 07:34, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My talk-page again. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 07:56, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :-) It's nice to have you back. Happy holidays and take care, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  17:25, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Rehab (2)
Hi Baffle gab1978. Sorry to have reverted you just now, but those weren't noun + -ing constructions, and changing them to "..., and ..." changes the meaning in that it dilutes the association between the two things. In passing, sorry if I'm being nit-picky here, but comma precedes "and" only when what follows the "and" can stand as a sentence in its own right. Best, --Stfg (talk) 09:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello, and thanks for contacting me. I haven't reverted your changes, but I beg to differ about them. Re. commas: In US English, the Oxford comma (one preceding 'and') is more commonly used than in British English, and the article uses US English, therefore, in my understanding, we should use the Oxford comma. See MOS:OXFORD.


 * Re. Noun + ing: "The following week, it was the greatest gainer on the chart for November 30, 2011, climbing twenty-seven places to number 24," subject pronoun 'it' + 'climbing' = 'noun +ing' construction. What is wrong with 'and climbed'? I think it's clearer than your version. How does my change "dilute the association between the two things", since 'It' remains the subject pronoun? Essentially, all I did was alter the verb tense from present to past.The same applies to the second sentence you reverted. I assure you I have a fine and capable grasp of the written form of my native language. In conclusion - yes - you are nit-picking but note that I haven't reverted your changes. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 21:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I had no intention of questioning your grasp of our native language, as I'm sure you aren't questioning my grasp of it. Apologies if it seemed so, but I merely wanted to explain why I reverted you. I felt it would be discourteous not to.

However, please recall that Oxford/Harvard/serial commas only apply to lists of three or more items, as stated on the page you linked to and here in the MOS. In the sentence
 * "In Norway it entered the singles chart at number 19 and climbed to number 4 to become Rihanna's seventh top-five single in Norway."

a comma after "19" would not be an Oxford comma, because there is no list of three or more. By the way, the style guide that I like to use for my own writing is a US one: the NASA guide, although I'm too old and too British to adopt serial commas in my own writing. The relevant page is p.49 (page 57 of the PDF) Putting a comma after "19" in the sentence above doesn't conform to the NASA defition either. Rather, it violates their advice "Do not separate compound predicates with a comma unless they are long and require a comma for clarity" on the same page.

By the way, I agree with you, and so do some web sites, that the Oxford comma is used more often in US than in British English. Nevertheless, the option to use or to shun it exists in both variants, so it is not correct to deduce "US English, therefore Oxford commas". The rule is to continue the usage chosen by the first editor who needed to decide the issue. The MOS is quite clear about this.

I am very familiar with Tony1's page about the noun+-ing construction. I agree with him that the construction is over-used, often sloppily, and sometimes ambiguously. I also agree with you if you're saying that FAC reviewers often object to uses of the construction that Tony1 describes. I've observed it too, and have chopped it from many articles myself. But please would you read Tony1's description of the construction he objects to once more? The sentence you quote is not an example of it.

There's nothing grammatically wrong with "and climbed", but it presents being the greatest gainer and climbing 27 places as two separate facts. Using the participial phrase expresses that there is a logical connection between them.

Real Life owns me for the rest of today, so please don't feel snubbed if you reply and I don't notice till tomorrow. All being well, I'll respond tomorrow if wanted.

Best regards, Simon. --Stfg (talk) 12:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello, Simon, and thanks for taking the time to reply. Although I don't favour the Oxford comma, I'd been using it on Rihanna articles because previous editors have used it. I'm happy to leave it out if required to - judging the correct style for the article can sometimes be quite difficult. FAC editors pick faults with the silliest things - I've been told not to use ellipses at the beginning and end of quotes, which to me seems logical because that's where material is most often omitted. Yet the MOS tells us to use ellipses where needed, and I've argued about it to no avail. I've read the 'noun +ping' page; I agree with him to an extent, but that page isn't WP policy and I don't understand why it's the Holy Grail of quality writing for FAC reviewers, who seem to move the goalposts whenever it suits them. I'll feel free to ignore it in future. I'm sorry for my sarcastic comments; they weren't necessary and I apologise for them.I hope I didn't offend you. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 10:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello again. Thanks for your reply. I certainly wasn't offended, and we actually agree about a lot of things. When I wrote before, I hadn't looked at your user page and therefore didn't realise you are British. As you are, a web site I find quite useful is the University of Sussex Guide to Punctuation. Best, --Stfg (talk) 11:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please forgive my butting in here. You are discussing what are traditionally called "fused participles" and what Tony calls noun + ing. The example given above is not a fused partcicple. It is just a participle phrase and good writers user these a lot. This, for example,  is not a fused participle, "I left Bristol for London, arriving later that day".  Graham Colm (talk) 16:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Graham. I think I need to read that page again. It's not WP policy so I'll feel free to ignore it in future. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 10:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

My Sincere Wishes For This Festive Season

 * Lol. You are welcome and thanks as well. :) Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:30, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy holidays

 * Thank you, and I hope you have a good time too. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:57, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Re
Double digit numbers must be written numerically per MoS. Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 02:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No they don't have to be written numerically, see WP:MOSNUM. 'Rube Boy' has / had inconsistently used both styles, but mostly they were written as words and I chose the most prevalent style. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:55, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "As a general rule, in the body of an article, single-digit whole numbers from zero to nine are spelled out in words; numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals". I want them to be written as numerically. Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 03:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You forgot the following clause, "or in words if they are expressed in one or two words..." I've been here before; either style is acceptable as long as it's consistent throughout the article. I've checked two other Rihanna articles and those use numerals, so doing so here would be consistent with those. I won't oppose you if you change the style to numerals in Rude Boy (song); I'm not going trawling through the history to find out the original style - ICBA. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 07:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter
Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 10:21, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikilove
Thanks Calvin, and Happy New Year to you too. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:56, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Urgent copy-edit request
Hi. How are you long? Haven't heard from you since Christmas. Lol. Can you please c/e "Halo (Beyoncé Knowles song)"? Soonest will be best. Please. There is much to be done. Remember that I am using the WP:NUMBERS style. Numbers smaller than ten are written in words. And the commas are in the style of "Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)" - My Christmas FA. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 15:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Jivesh, I'm involved with other offline projects (like having a life) right now, and once I'm done with Rude Boy I'll be taking a couple of days off WP, so in all likelihood (unless i'm desperately bored) it'll be after New Year's Day when I start this one. Thanks for clarifying the styles to be used; that helps a lot. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:06, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. Happy New Year. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:22, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Numbers 11 - 100; shall I use numerals or words? The MOS allows both styles (see above). Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:31, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Numerals. And it's 10 - 100. Lol. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:42, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ta :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 06:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * :D Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 06:19, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 *  Paused Abandoned. Jivesh, it's pointless me taking out redundant or informal words and phrases from the article when you simply revert them all. Here you've replaced all the redundant waffle that I removed. I do try to use clear, unambiguous words and phrases when I edit. I'll leave this article alone until you're finished. BTW, my last four edits were fake ones. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope I did not upset you but some of your edits were not good, especially the composition section (first paragraph). The controversy, I reverted all you edits there because an editor has already helped me with that. See the talk-page of "Halo". I recently talked with Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Some of the text in 'Controversies' is waffle, and that's what I tried to fix. The changes I made in 'Composition' were a little harsh I guess. And I didn't get around to reference-checking either. I wish you well at FAC; have fun :-). Baffle gab1978 (talk) 08:32, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * My friend, I really appreciate what you do. But the editor who left comments on the talk-page told me that she is being harsh for my own good. Actually, she is the one who kind of guided me with that section. I completely trust her and I also trust you but it often becomes difficult when two editors think different ways. I hope you get what I am trying to tell you. Thanks for wishing me luck. :D Cheers, Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 16:52, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, I hope you don't waste User:Brianboulton's time; he'll start work in a few days according to his talk page. I've made him aware of this conversation in a diff prior to our posts today - he may not see these posts. I don't know what you've asked him to do here. You've made a good point above and I hope you'll remember that; when you request several editors to copy-edit an article you're sure to put someone's nose out of joint. I guess that's just the nature of Wiki. :-) Good luck, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry again. I know what I did was wrong but when i first asked you, you were busy. I asked others and they were all busy. As soon as you started to work on the article, Tim and Brian also jumped in + the friend who helped me with the controversy section. Sorry again. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 04:40, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Copy-edit request queue.
 My copy-edit request queue is currently closed. Please solicit the generous assistance of the Guild of Copy Ediors here. Thanks.Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:43, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Free?
Will you get time to copy-edit another article? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 08:00, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes I can take on another article; however I'm still working on the Selena one (mainly checking refs etc) so I may not get to it today.Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Take your time. I am leaving short articles.

Me, Myself and I (Beyoncé Knowles song)
"She contacted various musical collaborators, including Storch and Waller." - Waller is not mentioned in [reference 1] - "Helping Beyoncé trust those instincts are an impressive array of musical collaborators, among them Missy Elliot, Jay-Z, Sean Paul, Mark Batson, Mario Winans, D-Roy & Mr. B, OutKast's Big Boi, Rich Harrison, Fanatic, Scott Storch, and the legendary Luther Vandross on "The Closer I Get To You."" Baffle gab1978 (talk) 22:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I will source it using the album liner notes then. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 23:01, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Jivesh, I just got a 404 (dead link) error whilst checking the Pitchfork Media reference. I tried to find it yesterday via Google but couldn't. If it can't be fixed the article text may need changing. The Yahoo! Music url also redirects to the home page. Oh I hope you don't mind, I moved your previous comments up here because I've sectioned off each c/e article for convenience. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 06:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's okay. Lol. So, i will remove the references. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 12:38, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Done I hope that's okay; with the above information you can fix the article. Now onwards and, erm, downwards! Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:21, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Beautiful Liar
Bill Lamb alert :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, as long as it is only a GA, it does not matter. Are you continuing the c/e? I see you have already started another one. :( ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 04:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I'll continue these; I've been working on Rehab (Rihanna song) because it's at FAC (see my comments below - a few hidden problems there!), so don't be too concerned because I'll probably be free for the next week.Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's great then. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 05:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Seriously - 'Critical reception' has more Lamb than a Sunday roast! If I trim him back and can't expand the other reviews, there'll be a serious text shortage in that sub-section. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Trust me my friend. The review can remain unless i take it to FAC. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 06:46, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with his review being there at the current level. I think the article text is a little long-winded when we'd probably prefer a two-sentence direct quote. I'd like to expand some of the other reviews into full-sentence quotes where possible as I've done elsewhere, that way you won't have too much Lamb on your plate! :-D Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Jivesh, Reference 3 "Univision" is returning a 404 error. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:44, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How can i fix that? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 06:02, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Digging around in the wayback machine might turn up an archived copy. if you can't find one, don't worry yet as the GA criteria allow for dead references. But when you nominate for FA, you'll have to either find a copy or remove the referenced text (not much IIRC). Meanwhile, this article might be of interest to you. :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh thanks lot. Of course i like it. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 02:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, maybe you would like to comment on the FAC of "Single Ladies"? I am telling you this because you did not copy-edit the article for me and so your comments will be welcome. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 03:21, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'll have a look; I'm currently editing this one though. I'm looking for info about the leaking of the track onto the internet (ref here} doesn't mention a date. I may have a source from Billboard via another Beyonce article, which I'm just about to investigate. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:33, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow you are really doing a lot for me. Thanks. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 03:37, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not in the Billboard source; I'll leave that line in for now, as it's currently GA, so no major problem. :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:42, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Great. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 03:43, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Others
Go by any order. They are all GAs. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 17:36, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:57, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Once I've done these, I'll be taking a short break from copy-editing. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 01:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 02:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's okay. We are human, lol. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 17:50, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My friend, you should have a look at WP:NUMBERS. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 04:01, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * "As a general rule, in the body of an article, single-digit whole numbers from zero to nine are spelled out in words; numbers greater than nine are commonly rendered in numerals, or in words if they are expressed in one or two words (16 or sixteen, 84 or eighty-four, 200 or two hundred, but 3.75, 544, 21 million). This applies to ordinal numbers as well as cardinal numbers. However there are frequent exceptions to these rules." I found 'twenty four' and '78', so just standardising on words as I have in other articles. Which would you like me to use - numerals or words? Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please write those greater than nine in numerals. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 21:43, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries; I'll be checking the refs in the first article tonight so I'll change them over. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 22:36, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 22:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Ring the Alarm
Jivesh, I've started working on this article, but may not finish before my break; I'll be away from home for a week on friday and won't be able to edit. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:50, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It does not matter. Hey my friend, you often tell me to quote to avoid copyvio issues bu look what is happening at "Single Ladies"' FAC. That really discourages me. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 05:24, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry for what's happening there, I'm not really comfortable butting into these reviews. If there are any quotes under three words (or less than one sentence clause) you could de-quote them; saying (for example), 'Fred Jones of the Daily Whatsitsaid the single was "quite nice" might become 'Fred Jones of the Daily Whatsit said the song was quite nice'. - can you see how little the quote marks add to that sentence? Perhaps someone at the GOCE can help - there's a section for FA candidates at GOCE/FA.


 * Unfortunately, some reviewing editors have strong opinions on how an article should be written, and they can't see an alternative to their style of writing. But that doesn't mean it's the only way to write an article. My writing style is quite direct and they don't seem to like that either. The same with ellipses - their stance annoys me because I learnt that style at university; it's the academic way to show that material has been removed, and it's in the MOS. But arguing with them is like banging my head against a brick wall. If the article doesn't make it, don't worry because you're a great Wikipedian and you've done so much work here that is positive, especially since English isn't your first language. Just to cheer you up, I thought for ages that in the hook, "I'm a single lady", that Beyonce was singing "I'm a cigarrette, I'm a cigarrette..." - well I *was* in a noisy factory at the time! :-) I hope you keep editing and keep smiling, and don't let them get you down.;-)Baffle gab1978 (talk) 09:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * My friend, all these nice and kind words forced me to smile. You are so helpful and kind. You have a pure heart (at lease that is what i can say). Thank you very much. Whatever you feel for me (i mean what you have written), i genuinely think the same about you. Lol at what you have been thinking. So, "Single Ladies" was even being played in factories. Jivesh 1205 (talk) 11:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Done - unless there's something I've missed out, or a major change whilst I've been away. I've previously done the Live Performances' section, and I read it through and all seems well there. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 06:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Never leave Wikipedia or i will cry a river. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 06:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

S&M (song)
Hey, I have listed S&M on the GOCE for Potential FA page, would you mind formally reviewing it please? I'd like to be able to take it to FAC in just over 4 weeks time. Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 14:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Calvin, I'm sorry but I'm quite busy in RL at the mo, and I don't feel qualified to review articles formally. Thanks for asking though. Good luck with it. :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:07, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What I mean't by formally was that instead of me just asking you, that you actually answer the request here. Like how you did with Loud. Basically means that you put the tag on the talk page when done lol. Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 19:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, but I think another article is awaiting my attention, so it may be a week or so, depending on RL, before I copy-edit this one. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 06:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine, I can't nominate until the second week on January anyway. Thanks :). Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 11:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I can start now actually, I don't think I've got any more copy-edits in the queue. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool thanks :). Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 23:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only just noticed you have started it lol. Calvin  &bull; Watch  n'   Learn 00:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I started yesterday. Is the first paragraph concerning the writers and producers acceptable? I thought the original was a little confusing. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 00:52, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No that's great :). Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 00:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 01:15, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's okay. Would you be able to do Hard and Rude Boy? Like, over the next 5 weeks? I would like to take them to FAC in mid to late January. Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 01:20, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll do those after I've finished 'S&M'. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 02:59, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). There is no rush over the next 5 weeks, I won't be here the last week of December or first week of January. <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

What's that about Disney, I didn't get what you was saying. <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 23:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Calvin. The article said the complaints were received because the show was broadcast on "publicly-owned broadcast airwaves." - I interpreted this to mean the broadcaster American Broadcasting Company was publicly-owned like the BBC, but ABC is owned by Disney -it's privately owned. I've now worked out that the ref means the show was broadcast on terrestrial television rather than cable or satellite television. It's the phraseology that confused me - I hope the change I made to the article is suitable. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 00:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay I didn't know that. I'm not from America lol. <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 00:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Done I think - I hope it's looking better now. If there's anything else in the article you'd like me to look at, please tell me.I suggest having it peer reviewed before re-nominating it. Cheers and good luck with the nomination, . :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 00:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 00:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey you didn't add your GOCE tag onto the talk page header? <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 13:56, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I probably forgot, but I'm not worrying about that these days anyway. ICBA etc. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:34, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hard (song) done I checked the sources on my previous c/e and I assume no issues. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:00, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). I am in America atm, so I probably won't be able to comment back for a few days. <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 15:02, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Rude Boy (song) Done I haven't checked all of the sources, except in the 'reviews' sections and a few others where quotes needed checking. I hope you're having fun in the US, with no Wiki-stress! :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 08:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). Lol yeah I am, home on sunday :( <font color ="blue" face= "Aharoni">Calvin  &bull; Watch n'   Learn 15:11, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Quick c/e
Hey there! If you aren't too busy, would it be any trouble to c/e just the lead of this sandbox? I want to nominate it at WP:FLC once everything is done. Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  18:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes I'll do it, but I can't guarantee a pass. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 22:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's ok, I believe they will just give suggestions instead of saying that the prose is too awful :-) Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  15:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Started. 1st sentence - '...she lunched her solo career' gave me a laugh :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk)
 * ""¿Qué creias?" became a receptive in Mexico," doesn't make sense - I've changed 'receptive' to 'hit'; please correct me if necessary. Thanks, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:48, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea I don't know what that is either, I got it from the book and thought it would help the prose out. Are you finish with the sandbox or are you still c/e? Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  15:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Still going, I'll do the final paragraph(s) this evening or tomorrow. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:54, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks :-) Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  19:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you still taking c/e requests? Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  03:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Ajona, yes I am; I'm just about done with Rude Boy now. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay :-) Whenever you are free can you take a look at Amor Prohibido? Its been at GAN for some time now and I think its because of the prose. Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  23:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hiya, I'm currently doing one for Jivesh, but he's been editing that one today so I'll get onto yours later tonight - I don't like editing at the same time as others because of potential edit conflicts. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh okay :-) BTW how was your new years? Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  23:22, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Rather quiet thanks, i had a few drinks with a friend, then came home and went to bed. I'm a real party animal :-D I hope you had a good one too. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 00:11, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * LOLZ, well that's good :D Hope you didn't get too wasted ;-) BTW per WP:ALBUMCAPS Spanish-language songs/albums are not supposed to be capitalized so for Amor Prohibido it would be Amor prohibido only the first letter of the word is capitalized. Sorry for not explaining before, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  00:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, i was just about to ask you about capitals. I'll change them back - no problems. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 00:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. It's new so not a lot of users know about it. Best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  00:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Closing comments
Hi Jona; I'm almost finished there, sorry for the delay in replying here. I checked most of the publicly accessible references in 'Critical reception' and replaced some mixed indirect/direct quote sentences to direct quotations from source. I can't check the subscription references though.

'Critical reception' is very long, so perhaps you may want to remove some of the short, one-sentence reviews; they make the article quite 'choppy' to read; for example: "'Herón Márquez wrote in his book Latin Sensations that Amor prohibido was a landmark. James McConnachie wrote in his book The Rough Guide to World Music that the album captures Selena's sex appeal and had the most 'authentically Tejano sound''..." It's your choice, of course, but I think those short sentences don't add much to the article. In 'Commercial performance', I hid the text "it remained on the chart hovering the top five slots since the albums release." because I couldn't quite understand what it means. Can you clarify, or should I remove it? Cheers for now, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 18:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Done - unless there are any problems you'd like me to deal with. Wishing you well with the GA nomination. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:54, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks I've been OH SO busy lolz life is something huh? Thanks for all you have done and very best, Jona yo!  Selena 4 ever  23:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfaithful (song)
Please give your magic touch to the article. I have written it really fast, so probably it has some grammar mistakes. I would be very grateful. Greetings Baffle:) ! — Tomica1111  &bull; <font face="IrishJig">Question Existing?  12:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes; I'll do it when I've finished the ones I'm working on now, which will probably take a few days. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. — Tomica1111  &bull; <font face="IrishJig">Question Existing?  20:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you planning to start soon Baffle? Or you are still busy? — Tomica1111  &bull; <font face="IrishJig">Question Existing?  17:26, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've just finished the one I've been working on, except for some refs checks, so I'll probably start some time this Sunday. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:50, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, seems fine to me as well:). Greetings — Tomica1111  &bull; <font face="IrishJig">Question Existing?  19:52, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Done I checked most of the references in the review sections and corrected the article as needed, but I haven't checked them all. I hope it's better anyway. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Baffle. Looks good :) ! — Tomica1111  &bull; <font face="IrishJig">Question Existing?  20:57, 12 January 2012 (UTC)