User talk:Bakermannn/Archive 3

Fábio
Hello!

The matches for Cruzeiro on oGol from 2005 to 2021, which all have the tournament defined, total to 956 and not 955, do you perhaps know which is the extra one, so we can try to verify if he indeed played one more from other sources?

P.S. Cruzeiropedia has become a bit unreliable, as at the moment it reads 953 matches instead of 955; based on Cruzeiro's article and the matches played after we have 955 as a total, which was also what Cruzeiropedia had back then.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 10:14, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

Thanks! Yes, I agree; there is a lot of information supporting that he definitely didn't play in that match... by the way, Cruzeiropedia has pre-match info explaining he won't be available for the match, and there is also this video of highlights (no match entire available, but the highlights back up Cruzeiropedia's description).

P.S. I hope we are not missing matches, and I am talking about those 4 oGol has between 1999 and 2000.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 20:50, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

Yes, it makes perfectly sense why he couldn't play in that match, no idea why oGol includes him; maybe we could send them all the sources with the lineups, description and highlights video, so they remove him?

By the way, regarding the 2 matches shown now as friendlies in Cruzeiropedia, we will carry on as we were, i.e. with 955 as official; not only because Cruzeiropedia isn't officials, but also because we cannot "succumb" to "whims" (if I can put it this way) of having the status of matches being degraded after years: I don't exclude a couple of matches having being degraded to friendly ones, but were those official ones when they were played? That's what counts. After all, they haven't even given info about which two ones they are referring to...

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 11:28, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

Regarding the two matches Cruzeiropedia has added as friendlies, if you see his matches between 2005 and 2021 in oGol, all of them were in Série A, Série B, Mineiro, Brazil Cup, Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana except for two that were played in Primeira Liga in 2016, which is not included in the friendly tournaments in RSSSF, included also as official in SoccerWay, apart from oGol; well, it's a Copa Sul-Minas-Rio "schism" tournament that wasn't played under CBF's seal, which recognized it as friendly (there is relative info in the Portuguese WP article), so I added a relative note. If you disagree, tell me.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Kazuyoshi Miura 1986
Hello!

I have found he did play in the Torneio Início Paulista in 1986 (tournament link in Portuguese WP and in RSSSF); I found at least one more match for Santos there in 1986 (Ponte Preta 1 x 0 Santos on 16 February 1986, link here) and also found online info from a blog that he played for CA Juventus as well there (link here – unreliable WordPress – which is an article about CA Juventus winning that tournament, where he appears as "Kazuo").

So +1 for Santos?

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 15:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

Yes, you are right, the matches were played in one day, so they cannot be added, didn't notice before...

P.S. I hadn't noticed it was played with matches of 20 minutes, because it's not listed as friendly in RSSSF, and I had also seen it in official websites (e.g. see CA Juventus here, also on their official facebook account), but apparently it can't be included with 20-minute duration; in addition, I found this (facebook account), which mentions it, but says it's not considered by them (Associação dos Pesquisadores e Historiadores do Santos FC, ASSOPHIS).

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

He is not on that match on ENFA, but I wouldn't exclude having played, as the lineups they show are missing substitutes, i.e. they have 11 only players for both clubs; it would be a miracle if both clubs didn't make any changes.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 06:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Léo Júnior
Hello!

I am informing that I have decided to add to the list with the most official appearances Júnior, based on his profile on oGol. If you have any objections, please tell me.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 20:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

I totally agree, in season by season comparison with FlaEstatistica seems exactly like Djalma Santos' case, who played football at a time when friendlies weren't separated from the official matches, but for the standards of the article he shouldn't be added.

Now, first we need to add 33 to the total because FlaEstatistica has 876 for Flamengo and oGol 843, and 4 more for the Olympic team, so 1105 + 37 = 1142 total.

Then, in addition to those 55 friendlies, and without searching extensively online for some tournaments (torneio...) which I couldn't find in the friendly tournaments, I have calculated these friendlies:

20 in 1977 + 3 matches in Torneio Início Carioca (which, if you remember, the matches were played in 10' or 20' at the same day) + 25 in 1978 + 15 in 1979 + 12 in 1980 + 3 in 1981 + 5 in 1982 + 4 in 1983 + 2 in 1984 + 3 in 1989 + 11 in 1990 + 11 in 1991 + 4 in 1992 + 5 in 1993 = 120 friendlies (+3 matches in Torneio Início) + 55 until 1976

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Yasuhito Endō
Hello!

It is based on what the relevant sources have/had.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 09:07, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Ibrahimović, et c.
Hello!

Yes, I am aware of Ibrahimović and the others, as I am also aware that today he is included in Milan's squad, but I wait until someone has 998 matches before being added to the list (hidden until reaching 1,000).

Sources: oGol and Svenskfotboll are good enough to back his numbers in his WP bio article.

RSSSF has two more matches, but without any details, and these could have been in selects.

P.S. Zlatan, as well as Sergio Ramos, could have already been on the list, if they hadn't been prone to receiving match bans.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 10:21, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Based on WP, Luka Modrić seems to be the closest to reaching 1,000, but I am missing sources for 8 matches he has on WP (WP has 130 for Dinamo Zagreb, but I find only 125 from the known DBs, and WP has 25 for Zrinjski Mostar, while the DBs have 22). If you can find good references for these 8 extra matches, he will be added (hidden) after the next official match he plays.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 00:49, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

FYI, Zlatan Ibrahimović, with 999 official appearances, has been added as hidden to the list. The 1,000th appearance is only a matter of time, most likely in the next match of Sweden.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 10:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Ray Clemence
Hello!

Both matches were for the FA Cup.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

RSSSF's Thousand Matches
Hello!

How are you? I am informing that I realized RSSSF's Thousand Matches publication (direct link here) got updated after more than 13 years (an unexpected positive surprise) and I see many names missing from WP's list of men's footballers with the most official appearances there, as well as some names, like Neville Southall, I already knew they had more than 1,000 official matches but couldn't find sources to back it up (such a verification is important, even though there is only a total number), however, since all but four players don't have details per team, no changes can be made to WP's list, apart from those 4 players, i.e. Peter Shilton, Raymond Clemence and Patrick Jennings will increase their tally and Stanley Matthews will be added to the list; regarding the rest, no changes can be made until there are such (per team) details added by RSSSF. Do you agree or have any objections to that?

Awaiting your feedback/opinion before proceeding with the changes.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:38, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello!

Yes, I am aware of Pat Jennings needing updates, and, along with the addition of Stanley Matthews, the update is on the to-do list, and will be done in the same manner Peter Shilton and Ray Clemence were updated, when I have enough time.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 15:12, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Luka Modrić
Hello!

I am searching for good references for the number of Luka Modrić for Dinamo Zagreb and Zrinjski Mostar. Since I could not find ones related to the clubs to justify the numbers, I am looking for a local source at that time from a famous news' outlet with the total both in Croatia and BiH, which could suffice, before looking for cup matches separately.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 16:21, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

First, I would like to say that he has been added to the list.

Now, I wish to also say that I have also found two articles from famous newspapers of Croatia claiming 130 matches (and 33 goals in them, with his WP bio-article, by the way, claiming 32 goals) for his numbers for Dinamo Zagreb, which for me are good enough so his total for D. Zagreb to be changed to 130 matches (with +1 goal, 33 goals in total, based on the sources), and also with the starting year changed to 2000, based on the first reference that also has years (it now has 2001, based on his stats for Croatia U15). 1st ref direct link (scroll down because the stats are at the bottom) and 2nd ref direct link. Do you agree or do you have any objection?

P.S. I: His FootballDatabase profile also has 33 goals, even though it has 121 matches as the total, however also colour noted his national cup data for the four seasons he played for D. Zagred as incomplete, in the according column, having also no data at all in his first two seasons.

P.S. II: Still looking for sources about the 3 more matches WP has for Zrinjski Mostar, but the first article before also has 22 instead of 25 matches (like the known DBs).

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

I am informing I have already made the changes regarding D. Zagreb.

If you have any objection, just tell me...

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 15:14, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

I have also done the same for his numbers for Zrinjski Mostar, because I found good relevant references.

If you have any objection, just tell me...

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 20:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Zinho (Crizam César de Oliveira Filho)
Hello!

I will look at it as soon as possible.

Grêmiopédia alone, by the way, does not suffice, as all pedia/paedia/paideia/paedeia are user generated websites, and so another reference backing this total would be needed, or at least some proof for the extra 11 matches it has (oGol has 135), which is very likely to be already on the site, as often in Grêmiopédia there are also match reports, e.g. from a newspaper, et c.

Also, oGol's total of 57 matches for Brazil senior NT not only is not in accordance with what other football DBs have, but also oGol has match reports for only 55 matches, even though their total sums up to 57, so another good ref is needed there as well, ideally a ref coming from CBF claiming 57 matches.

Nonetheless, if the numbers of Fla Estatística and Verdazzo are those you say, then he still, even without 13 matches, would have 1,069 matches, so yes, he can be added.

P.S. I had already responded previously about Pat Jennings (see here).

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:48, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Renamed
Hello!

What do you think about this?

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 05:46, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

1000 or more official appearances
Hello!

Long time no see. How are you? Hope all is fine!

If it's no bother, I would much appreciate your contribution here.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

I am fine too, thanks for asking, also I am pleased to "hear" from you and reading you are fine!

I personally prefer flexibility, i.e. a more generic name, so I like it as it is right now, so disagree with the name change, like I also said here, but everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, so you are, of course, allowed to disagree, but please, if you can, write down your opinion/input/feedback in the talk page of the article, as it may be crucial, since it's a tie, at the moment.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:26, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

As I don't have time anymore, as much as I would like to have, I have decided to opt to seize my curation of the list.

If you wish to take over, please do so.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 10:55, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Pepe Reina
Hello!

Based on his bio WP article, he has 999 official matches. As I don't have spare time currently to check the known football DBs (oGol, FDB, 11v11, BDFutbol, et c.) and sources for his NT numbers, if you can, please cross-check them for verification and, if you wish, add him to the list or just do only the former and I'll add him myself when I have time (it will be much easier once I have confirmed the numbers he has in WP and have the sources available alltogether).

No matter what, thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Nice! Go ahead and add him to the list then.

My time is limited anymore, I can't keep up updating the list.

Please take over...

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:58, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Stanley Matthews, Pat Jennings and Roberto Carlos
Hello!

If you take over the article, I wish to remind that Stanley Matthews needs to be added (RSSSF's source) and Pat Jennings to be updated (same source). Also, noting that both IFFHS and RSSSF have 5 more matches for Roberto Carlos, for whom we had other references claiming 5 more matches.

Kind regards,

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 23:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Xavi
Hello! With the url-status parameter on the ref set to dead, there is no need for a note. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 12:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

August 2023
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Edit warring at Jaromír Jágr
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Jaromír Jágr. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
 * This is just a friendly reminder as WP:BRD says not to restore content if you are reverted and discuss it. Sources like hockeyDB.com and eurohockey.com say that Jágr played 1 game in the 1994–95 Serie A season. In addition, Bolzano played in the 1994 Six Nations Tournament, but not in the 1994–95 Alpenliga season. I suggest you check your sources again instead of edit warring. – sbaio 09:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello


 * First if you look at one of your sources here eurohockey.com it says the Alpenliga right? If you look here from you also 1994 Six Nations Tournament you will see that the 1994–95 Alpenliga season was (quote) "temporarily merged into" in other words "part of" this tournament that season according to the text ok so YES he did play in the Alpenliga as part of the six nations tournament agree? If he played 1 game also in the Serie A that is ok but then it should be a separate line for this so one line with Alpenliga and one line with the serie A game like they did here eurohockey.com agree?


 * Hope for reply.


 * P.S. Did add that one game in Serie A on him is this ok?


 * Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 20:42, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Moving your reply on my talk page to here, because you are supposed to keep the discussion in one place. In addition, I am well aware of my sources. You should realize that "temporarily merged into" is not the same as being on its own. Therefore, he did not play in the Alpenliga, because Bolzano played in a completely new and unrelated division. – sbaio 04:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Jamie Cureton
Hello! I am fine, thank you, how about you? Regarding the first issue, the FA Youth XI match should not be included in the count, like it is for other players, but it could be mentioned as an explanatory note. Regarding the second one, RSSSF is of course not infallible, and so they may be missing one match, perhaps he played one in 2023? The last match date they have is 2022 and not 2023. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 00:22, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello! Is he still playing or has he retired from playing, because his WP bio article says he is a player-manager while he is not bolded on the list? On another topic, if you ever have spare time, you can consider also adding Scott McGleish and Barry Hayles to the list. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 12:59, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, a tip, if I may: it is wise to back-up refs once per year, i.e. to update the archived links of still playing players, as obviously only these need updating. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 13:07, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Billy Meredith
Hello! I wanted to also inform that RSSSF's list was updated in July, and it anymore includes details also on another player, William "Billy" Meredith's numbers; excluding reserves (19+), Welsh trial matches (14) and other selects (7) there are (1078 minus 40) 1038 matches and can be added to the list, what do you think? You can see his 50 international matches on the 11v11 profile. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 13:51, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 1043+ matches actually, because his 5+ matches for Chirk Reserves were for the Welsh Amateur Cup which also includes A teams. Direct link for the details here. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 14:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! Summing up for RSSSF's list, at the moment the only things left are Stanley Matthews and William Meredith to be added to the list. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 23:57, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello! If RSSSF includes them, it means there are FAs that credit them as official. Besides, my thesis is he should be added with relevant notes, as, regardless if those matches were later regarded as unofficial ones, they were official ones when they were played, which is what really counts. And the same stands for Stanley Matthews. Maybe also with a gray background to indicate this. Regarding Meredith, 6 abandoned matches (1 goal) should not be included (so the total is 1,037+), like it is for all the other players who have the abandoned matches removed from WP's list, and there should also be a note about the 2 matches in the Victory tournament, which the English and Welsh FAs do not deem as official, while other FAs involved do, including also the 11v11 (Association of Football Statisticians, AFS, statisticians). The references I would like to add are these, whenever I have time. If you have free time, feel free to add them. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:22, 3 September 2023 (UTC)