User talk:BalanceRestored/Sandbox/Pranava Veda

I've created this page as there are citations about the same at http://books.google.com/books?q=%22Pranava+Veda%22&btnG=Search+Books

I've added a citation about the Veda and the source from Government of India where the Veda has been narrated.

There is also a book named

Pranavan Vedam Available online at http://www.aumoneworld.com/books.html
 * by Dr. S. P. Sabharathnam
 * "A fascinating treatise on the creation of the universe and the ancient science of Pranava Veda or the cosmic life force. Written by a master in the Agamas."

This Veda is not much researched due to unknown reasons. I am researching the same. Among the Vishwabrahmins it is popularly said that this Veda is the first veda, and all other Vedas were created using this one. Also this treatise is around 10,000 years old. Again, these are being popularly said. I do not know about the realities, will need to find out.

There is another narration "Pranava Veda, a Sanscrit work used in the East" found at
 * Psychic Science April 1931 to January 1932
 * ISBN 1417978155
 * Published 2004 Kessinger Publishing
 * New Age / Parapsychology
 * Page 17

Citation indicating the existence of the Pranava Veda: “eka eva pura vedo pranavha sarva vangmayha” (9th skandha, 14th chapter, sloka 48 of Bhagavatam)

This phrase by Veda Vyasa, the compiler of the present day (but ancient) Vedas, means that there was only one Veda in the remote past and that Veda is called Pranava Veda - the Veda of the shilpis of India. Artharva Sheershopanishad makes mention of the term “Pranava” as being “ongara” – the all-pervasive substance.

Pranava Veda elucidates the science of Pranava. It is the scientific study of The All Pervading Substance. Pranava Veda presents the science of “how the invisible substance of the universe (paravastu) makes itself manifest in the visible material (Vaastu) forms.” In other words, Pranava Veda reveals the process of how the All Pervasive pure Energy turns into Matter or material existence. (www.vastuved.com)

There is one known copy of the Pranava Veda in existance today. Thai is in the hands of Dr. V. Ganapati Sthapati of Chennai, India. Dr. Sthapati has published a book of the first 1000 verses of the Pranava Veda.

There is a translation project underway to translate and comment on the first 1000 verses in English spearheaded by the American University of Mayonic Science and technology www.aumscience.com.

The Pranava Veda does in fact exist. The text "Fabric of the Universe" by Dr. Jessie Mercay (www.vastu2vaastu.com)is a condensation of many ofthe fundamental concepts of Pranava Veda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.41.99.28 (talk) 01:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Note
The description "A fascinating treatise on the creation of the universe and the ancient science of Pranava Veda or the cosmic life force. Written by a master in the Agamas." applies to the book by Dr. S. P. Sabharathnam listed on this page, and not some historical veda. So currently the Pranava Veda article is factually incorrect, since the second sentence from a 1965 gazetteer clearly does not refer to this book. Also note that Dr. S. P. Sabharathnam's book fails wikipedia's notability guideline for books. Abecedare 05:04, 10 July 2007

(UTC)
 * Does a mention from a gazetteer not testify that people follow a veda called Pranav Veda?BalanceRestored 07:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you have to say about ISBN 1417978155???? What is that referring to ???BalanceRestored 07:28, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

this appears to be a term used in mysticism and occultism to refer to an alleged "original Veda" or similar. If we can give a clean account of the term, there can well be an article about it, but it appears to have next to no notability. Some spiritualist appears to have alleged its existence in 1930 or so. Not much else can be said. Treat what little we have over at Pranava. dab (𒁳) 08:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I just figured out that "Pranava Veda" is just a common misspelling for Pranava-Vada. . dab (𒁳) 08:28, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict):: Here is a Pranava Vada according to Gargyayana, supposedly authored by Bhagavan Das in early 20th century. Didn't find the text even on worldcat or even a single mention of "pranava veda" in either the "Bibliography of Asian studies" or ISI indexes. So don't see how this modern book can satisfy the WP:BK requirements either. Abecedare 08:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Correction: Pranava vada does have sources, as pointed by dab, so perhaps an article can be created on that text. Abecedare 08:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ISBN 1417978155 is this book referring Vada or Veda? it says "Pranava Veda, a Sanscrit work used in the East", you guys are trying to Ignore it.. BalanceRestored 09:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

"trying to ignore it"? I figured out its proper spelling for you. Your "Sanscrit work used in the East" reference is from a shoddy spiritist publication. You need to find information about the actual text. Pranava Vada doesn't mean "science of AUM", it means "the uttering of AUM". Quite a difference, wouldn't you say? Can you collect some decent literature and then create Pranava Vada? We can then continue the debate over there. dab (𒁳) 12:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you all trying to force something purposely? When is it Veda, why mention it Vada? It is Pranav Veda written by Mayan (Maya) 10,000 years ago. This sages name is there in the Yajur Veda. This is the first Veda. There are 1000's books in Southern India that has clear citations for the same. Kindly do not play with ethics. Any why the end of Kaliyuga has come. You all know what will happen.. I don't have to write anything more. GOD is there, I believe in him 100%. Things will be there for you all too see.BalanceRestored 13:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * :D is that a divine curse or prophecy? Or a veiled threat? --Ragib 21:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There are 4 lakh Indians who follow this veda in India. Kindly do not play with their emotions. This is a request.BalanceRestored 13:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I figured it out. This is Devaneya Pavanar/Kumari Kandam style Tamil national mysticist crackpottery: Mamuni Mayan appears to be a figure of Sangam epics, and the "Pure Tamil" people allege that the Hindu Vedas derive from some "original Veda" written 10,000 years ago, in Tamil. This doesn't have enough notability for Wikipedia. At best mention the character at Sangam literature. dab (𒁳) 13:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What about the citation at ISBN 1417978155. You say that too is not talking about Pranava Veda when it is Pranava Veda clearly written. Why are you all not taking that as it is?BalanceRestored 13:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

your 1931 "psychic science" reference says that Glenna E. Sutcliffe claimed that there was a Sanskrit text called Pranava Veda. Given the occultist/theosophic context, this is likely a misspelling (De Barth's or Sutcliffe's) for the work by Das. You should check Sutcliffe's 1930 The New Astronomy and Cosmic Physiology and see what sources he gives if you want to pursue this. This is a booklet long out of print, and certainly doesn't have the notability for its own article. If you are interested in discussing Sutcliffe, you may want to create a Glenna E. Sutcliffe article. dab (𒁳) 13:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you have a citation for the text being a misspelling? On what basis is it written that the text is a misspelling. Again you just ignore something else. Drāno (also spelled Draino) you have also ignored the same. You have replaced ā with a (both are different characters) in the text. You all are just trying what I do not know. What if by chance all this is the truth? What if actually tomorrow it is proven that the Pranava Veda is the 1st Veda. In sanskit Ved is pronounced "Vaid". The author has written "Vaida" which is nothing else but "Veda" which is the english way of writting Vāda "Vaida", "Vaida" or "Vaidam".BalanceRestored 06:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Cited the details found by "Mysore State Gazetteer:"
"Mysore State Gazetteer:",
 * Printed by the Director of Print., Stationery and Publications at the Govt. Press
 * 1965
 * Page 220

you searched google books and came up with a snippet view of that publication. That's hardly a reference, and gives no context. Clearly far too obscure to warrant its own article. dab (𒁳) 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Kindly provide citations for the Panchals following the alleged "fifth Veda" kindly do not cite you own thoughts. BalanceRestored 07:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Citations for a misspelling for Pranava-Vāda
Are there any citations for Pranava-Veda being the misspelling of Pranava-Vāda. This is misguiding the visitors. BalanceRestored 08:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is a website that misspells it . I quote, "This system seems to have been recovered, in part at least, in a somewhat mysterious way, by Bhagavan Das, and we refer the student to his great work, the Pranava Veda." Abecedare 08:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I created Mamuni Mayan, which appears to be the proper article to discuss your point. It would be great if you could provide references for this. I suspect that as a topic of Tamil national mysticism, most sources will be in Tamil and thus very difficult to access for me. I haven't even figured out the proper spelling of "Mamuni Mayan" yet. There also appear close links to "Vastu Shastra" schools, and these do not seem to harp on the Tamil nature of the Pranava Veda in particular. This seems to be an interesting but very obscure (recent?) topic of Indian occultism, and it would be nice to get better references on it. dab (𒁳) 09:06, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

btw, Das himself translating his book's title as "science of the sacred word" is conductive to this confusion. This is actually the translation of pranava veda, not pranava vada. It might be worth scanning the book for an explanation of this apparent confusion. dab (𒁳) 09:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Bhagwan Das's previous two books were titled "The Science of the emotions" and "The science of peace", so I guess he just wanted to continue the theme. He also notes in the "The nature of the present translation" (page 95 of preface) that he is concerned more with the spirit of the words than the letter, and has allowed himself freedom in use of the English language. Abecedare 10:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

does any one have citations for Pranava Veda is "allegedly" a Veda?
The above was written, kindly provide citations for the same.BalanceRestored 05:09, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Abecedare You made the following change and wrote, check the talk page. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pranava_Veda&diff=144120765&oldid=144120510 I did not find citation which says Pranava Veda is "allegedly" a Veda. BalanceRestored 05:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The reason the word "allegedly" is used is because, we don't know whether the "Pranava Veda" followed by the Vishwabrahims refers to : So the word allegedly simply represents our lack of knowledge. I have looked through academic databases such as JSTOR, ISI Index and Bibliography of Asian studies and none of them has a single reference to any document called the Pranava Veda. So perhaps we need to look into Tamil literature to see if we can find a reliable source that can clarify the nature of the concept/text; and you are perhaps best placed to make this search. Once we have found an authoritative source on this topic, we can change the language on the disambiguation page accordingly. Abecedare 07:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) the concept of Aum as a Veda, or
 * 2) a separate and specific text

Citation indicating the existence of the Pranava Veda: “eka eva pura vedo pranavha sarva vangmayha” (9th skandha, 14th chapter, sloka 48 of Bhagavatam)

This phrase by Veda Vyasa, the compiler of the present day (but ancient) Vedas, means that there was only one Veda in the remote past and that Veda is called Pranava Veda - the Veda of the shilpis of India. Artharva Sheershopanishad makes mention of the term “Pranava” as being “ongara” – the all-pervasive substance.

Pranava Veda elucidates the science of Pranava. It is the scientific study of The All Pervading Substance. Pranava Veda presents the science of “how the invisible substance of the universe (paravastu) makes itself manifest in the visible material (Vaastu) forms.” In other words, Pranava Veda reveals the process of how the All Pervasive pure Energy turns into Matter or material existence. (www.vastuved.com)

There is one known copy of the Pranava Veda in existance today. Thai is in the hands of Dr. V. Ganapati Sthapati of Chennai, India. Dr. Sthapati has published a book of the first 1000 verses of the Pranava Veda.

There is a translation project underway to translate and comment on the first 1000 verses in English spearheaded by the American University of Mayonic Science and technology www.aumscience.com.

The Pranava Veda does in fact exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.41.99.28 (talk) 01:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Something Interesting.
"Indian government officials discovered the Pranava Veda, along with other documents, in a 10, 000 year old library approximately 30 years ago and entrusted the ancient texts to Dr Sthapati knowing that he is the only living person on the planet with complete knowledge of the subject and the ability to understand and interpret the technical language in which they are written. He is currently working on translations in common Tamil and English." Could be a rumor. Src : BalanceRestored 07:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

More resources confirming the Veda
http://www.aumscience.com/board/vastucert.html

Check the topic "From Mayans Aintiram, a condensation of Pranava Veda" BalanceRestored 07:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Pranava
pranava. Om, the sacred primordial sound principle.

pranava-naada (-naadha). Om sound.

pranava-swarupa (-svaruupa). Embodiment of Om.

source:http://www.sathyasai.org/refs/vahiniglossary/pentries.htm

One among the 1000 names of Lord Shiva. BalanceRestored 10:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Lord ideated from Pranava the Vedas – The Rig Veda out of its letter "A", Yajur Veda from the letter "U", Sama Veda from the letter "M", and Atharva Veda from the Ardhamatra. BalanceRestored 10:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Something really surprising
Considered to be the son of the Vasuprabhasa and his wife, Yogasiddha, according to one tradition, Visvakarma had five faces, ten hands and from each of the face he begot a son. Like their father, each of the sons was extraordinarily talented and versatile in all fields and because of their stature, they were also awarded the title of Maharishi (great sage or saint) (Sharma, 1989). Each of the five sons gave rise to a major artistic lineage, and theoretically any artist can trace his mythical descent to one of them. The five sons of Visvakarma are claimed to have been the first blacksmith, the first carpenter, the first founder, the first mason, the first goldsmith, variously and the succeeding generation of the craftsmen are supposed to be their progeny. Roberts (1909, p.11) quotes a passage from the Vedas:

Manu was a blacksmith and author of the Rig Veda. Maya was a carpenter and author of Yajur Veda. Twashtak was a brass caster and author of Sama Veda. Shilpi was a mason-architect and author of the Atharvana Veda. And Vishvagna was a goldsmith and author of the Pranava Veda.

http://www.amcreativityassoc.org/ACA%20Press/Global%20Correspondents/Global_1999.pdf

Interesting to read it. Can someone find out who Roberts... and how and which passages he is quoting this from?

Got it, it is written by Roberts, A.E. (Roberts Alfred Edwards) (1909). Visvakarma and his descendants. Calcutta : All-India Vish-vakarma Brahman Mahasabha.


 * Identifier	vishwakarshamuay026126mbp
 * Media Type	texts
 * Call Number	26126
 * Image Count	147
 * Title	VISHWAKARSHAMU AYANA SANTATIYUNU
 * Creator	ALFRED EDWARD ROBERT
 * Publisher	DHAVALESHWARA SOMALINGACHARYULU
 * Contributor	CCL
 * Date	1927
 * Contributor	SRI KRISHNA DEVARAYA ANDHRA BASHANILAYAMU
 * Language	tel
 * Contributor	PAR INFORMATICS HYDERABAD
 * Public Date	2006-12-06 12:44:56

http://www.archive.org/details/vishwakarshamuay026126mbp

BalanceRestored 11:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Books
Pranava Vedam is also the title of a book by S. P. Sabharathnam (no bibliographic details available, apparently self-published). This is the source of BalanceRestored's "A fascinating treatise on the creation of the universe".

There is another book in Telugu which has "Pranava Veda" in its title, Śrīcētanā kalpamu (praṇava vēda samājamu) anu śaśvāśruva, svacaśrī cētanā kalpaṭhānvīkāmrada praṇava vēda tatva jñāna samājam praṇavavēdānalambula katyantōpayōgambuga vidhīṣṇānyāsamu by Sandhyana Mahēṣṇa, Kākināḍa : Bhaṭla Rāmabrahmānandasadmayābhīṣṇa (1912) (thank you worldcatlibraries.org)

There is also a "Pranava Upanishad", contained in the Paippalada (AV) Gopatha Brahmana. dab (𒁳) 08:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The book Fabric of the Universe" by Dr. Jessie J. Mercay (www.vastu2vaastu.com) is a summary of the main points found in the Pranava Veda.  "Fabric of the Universe" was given a fvorable published review by Professor S. Nagaraja Pillai, State Hindu College, Nagercoil in 2007.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.41.99.28 (talk) 01:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)