User talk:Bamclaughl

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I am not a registered user so my understanding is I cannot edit which photographs appear on pages, or, apparently, captions. The photograph on the main page, however, is NOT the famous photo taken by Will Counts - the alternate photograph under 'External Links' IS -- this photo was taken by Johnny Jenkins. In David Margolick's book 'Elizabeth and Hazel' (Yale UP 2011) it cites the photographer of each of these two photos and discusses why Counts' photo became the most famous of those taken that day: it was the first to be printed that afternoon (in the Arkansas Democrat) while Jenkins' did not get published until the following morning (in the Little Rock Gazette). A third photo taken by a different photographer did not appear in the newspaper for which he worked at all (which Margolick claims may have been due to the more conservative nature of his newspaper, the Memphis Commercial Appeal. There is no source listed for the claim that it was this photo that was on the AP's "Top 100 Photographs of the 20th Century" - and I cannot find this source online.  But, assuming it actually exists, based on Margolick's account, it appears more likely that it would be Counts' photo that would make such a list than Jenkins': this article, about Margolick and his interest in the photo and the friendship between Eckford and Bryan-Massery, calls the photo the 'more iconic' of the two (http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/in-frame/Content?oid=949031).

Additionally, pictures from this day (also in Margolick's book) show that this is NOT Grace Lorch to her right: this was not what Lorch was wearing that day, and her hair was lighter and longer than the woman on the photo's right (Eckford's left.) The reference to Lorch as Eckford's 'escort' is misleading, for reasons fleshed out in Margolick's book.

Thus, were these two photos to be switched, the AP list verified and cited, and the reference to Lorch removed, this would be an accurate caption. As I apparently cannot do this, I removed the caption altogether; hopefully a registered user can fix this. Bamclaughl (talk) 00:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

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A number of sources attribute the photograph to Will Counts, for instance this one and a number of other sources identify the woman accompanying her as Grace Lorch. What source do you have that says something else? Vale of Glamorgan (talk) 00:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Hm, ok, one of the pictures where Grace Lorch is identified does show her with a different patterned dress. Vale of Glamorgan (talk) 01:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Bamclaughl (talk) 01:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC) I'm not sure if what I just typed is showing up. In any case, please see this source: Margolick, D. (2011). Elizabeth and Hazel, two women of Little Rock. Yale UP.

He takes great care to sort out the photographs taken that day -- discussing who took each one, from what angle and when (Jenkins' moments before Counts') and at what point in the next few days they were published and in what publication. Given that you are correct that there's a great deal of apparently incorrect attributing of that photograph to Counts, it seems reasonable to assume that he was aware of this and thus took pains in his extensive first-person research to figure this out. Plus, it was published by Yale, so I think it seems fair to consider it a preeminent source on the matter at this point. And yes, what you say about Lorch is exactly what I was going to note, again, based on this book. In Margolick's account, she showed up after the photographs were taken, when Eckford had reached the bus stop; additionally, she escorted her only partway home, not the full way. Bamclaughl (talk) 01:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)