User talk:BarkingMoon/Archive 1

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, BarkingMoon, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Jenks24 (talk) 14:06, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page and How to develop articles
 * How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
 * Manual of Style

Thank you ...
... for your kind words BarkingMoon. It's a pleasure to meet you, and I look forward to seeing you around project. I'm not always here on a daily basis anymore, but I am trying to get back to a bit more involvement. Feel free to drop me a line anytime; question, comments, suggestions, or just to say hi. Cheers and best — Ched : ?  19:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Ched? Nice to meet you and Bugs. You sound like neat guys. If everyone on wiki were so cool as you guys, I'm sure it'd be a lot better for all and for the articles. But sadly I've already learned there are major areas of discord. Hopefully I can avoid them and only encounter neat guys like you too. BarkingMoon (talk) 19:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Just saw you picture question on Bugs' page ..yes, you can merge the two pictures. Just remember to give the proper attribution (give credit for the original pictures) when you upload the new file.  Cheers and good luck. — Ched :  ?  01:35, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Question
Do I know you from the past here at Wikipedia? Not sure why, it's just that something kind of rings a bell here; and, you remind me of someone I can't quite put my finger on. I'm not trying to imply any wrong-doing or anything .. just wondering. Cheers. — Ched : ?  17:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Doubt it.BarkingMoon (talk) 21:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Your great DYK nom
Just wanted to say how much I admired your research at American Women's Voluntary Services. You clearly did some digging on this one, and it paid off into a great start for an article. -- Khazar (talk) 21:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll be adding more refs. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for American Women's Voluntary Services
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * WOW thanks! I only posted it a few minutes ago and I wasn't expecting this! I have a friend who's showing me the ropes. Thanks! I'm putting it at DYK too. BarkingMoon (talk)

DYK nomination of Olivia Ward
Hello! Your submission of Olivia Ward at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Responded there.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Genevieve Foster
Just to let you know, I responded to your question at the DYK for Genevieve Foster. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks.BarkingMoon (talk) 00:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Jeanette Eaton
Hello! Your submission of Jeanette Eaton at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Drmies (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * All fixed now. BarkingMoon (talk) 02:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, these articles on these women authors, those are really useful. Thank you for contributing them. You know, my pen pal, User:LadyofShalott, is interested in such matters as well. Check out her user page; she's got some userboxes for Wikiprojects you might be interested in. Keep 'em coming! Drmies (talk) 03:00, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll check out LoS. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely doing some great work there Barking ... fantastic!!! — Ched : ?  22:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ched! Working on Agnes Hewes in my sandbox now. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Your DYK nomination
Hello! Your submission of Agnes Hewes at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Khazar (talk) 06:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Olivia Ward
Materialscientist (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Genevieve Foster
The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

A DYK tip
Avoid both approving and moving the same nomination to prep areas. Such action is reserved for emergencies when there are no approved hooks. Materialscientist (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I don't see what the big deal is there, but I will abide by the standards from now on. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The major idea is to have as many people as possible to look at the hook (for spelling, factual errors, WP:NPOV, image problems, etc.). Experience shows that we regularly miss obvious errors up to promotion to the main page. DYK is one of those areas where it is difficult to keep everything in one head. Promotion is the most important step because the promoter sees the entire review. It is time-consuming to recover it later for checking. Materialscientist (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You have a point, but if a hook fills well into a prep set (topic wise, etc) this shouldn't disqualify it. Now I totally agree one should not approve one's own hook, that's a major conflict of interest. I also see that the stale/problematic hooks seem to go neglected after a week or so. I'd expect that topic has come up before and no permanent solution has come about, probably because this is a volunteer project and the problem hooks require more effort. I'm new to all this and just let me know if I make more faux pas. I like making new articles and the DYK area--and it looks under manned. I've set a watch on your user page as you seem very active and knowledgeable in the DYK area. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no solid criterion for becoming "experienced" in DYK matters, thus a rule of thumb - when there are plenty of nominations approved by other editors, pick those first rather than review and promote in one step (and double check when promoting anyway). This rule is not invented by me and arguments are numerous. For example, some "green-light" reviews get questioned later. Materialscientist (talk) 13:48, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Numerous arguments seem aplenty all over wiki and it seems impossible to please everyone, just like in politics.BarkingMoon (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, we can't please everyone, but note (i) we very rarely revert other editors in the DYK area, and if we do, it means either a technical glitch or that the editor is not welcome there; (ii) wikipedia is uncensored, its main page is. DYK is a portal to the main page. Materialscientist (talk) 14:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell so far, there are lots of nice, helpful people around and those are the ones I try to hang around; but there are also many mean, disruptive zealots, many of whom seem real world ethnic warriors and various "agendaists" who use wiki to foment their real world agenda--those I try to stay away. I just want to edit in peace. It also seems the zealots get a lot of attention and there's no real truly effective way to deal with them. PS, I do a lot of cruising around looking and not making comments in such debates.BarkingMoon (talk) 14:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * DYK has always been a friendly area, where many editors work together to improve articles and hooks. Pushing political points of view is a recent and unfortunate tendency. Anyway, this collaboration hinges on participation of constructive editors, and yours is welcome. Materialscientist (talk) 14:29, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. You're very kind. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Another tip for this. A normal procedure is to notify the nominator after placing a negative tag or query. If the article can be rescued then a usual waiting time is a week after notifying. Materialscientist (talk) 10:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, but dang they've been there three weeks already. BarkingMoon (talk) 10:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the total time does not matter (many noms sit for weeks without review; or get nominated at WP:AFD, in which case the rule is to wait until the AFD is closed). What matters is the time since the last serious comment. Materialscientist (talk) 10:49, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, but by this point it's defeating the purpose of "newest articles".BarkingMoon (talk) 10:58, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "New" is vague. We ask to nominate 5(7-8) days from creation/expansion, but the timing for reviewing/promotion is uncertain. Materialscientist (talk) 11:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Yellow-crowned Bishop
Ok, added a bit and rejigged like other bird articles (one reason I stick taxonomy above description is so to move the later down the page and away from the taxobox in case we want to slot more images in (as description is a good place to put 'em). Now the tricky part is thniking of some hook. I can merge the page with the mainspace one, just let me know when you want to do this as it involves a little administrative fiddling around (luckily I am an admin so not too difficult). Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:08, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Responded on your talk page and thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 02:26, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Jeanette Eaton
The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Agnes Hewes
The DYK project (nominate) 08:04, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Google books
One thing I do is get familiar with what's on google books in terms of bird field guides etc. in Full View or decent Preview. I found one on South Africa, and South and Central America are well represented (hence my recent expansions on a couple of Tanagers), but apparently the settings differ between countries, so you may not see them (?). Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * got a link? If not I'll try to find them. I just joined WP:Birds too.BarkingMoon (talk) 20:20, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look through the last two Tanager articles I've just been working on (just look through my contrib history), see the refs and click on them and let me know if you get preview, snippet view or no view. gotta run and fix something,,,, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I see this (and other google books) and can read the tanager article, but how do I know if it's full/preview/snip view? I'm trying to find a google book on birds of africa that has article text......BarkingMoon (talk) 21:07, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Here are some: User:BarkingMoon/Tools but not a darn one has anything on black bishops. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:26, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll see on google books, some will say "snippet view" and you'll get a tantalising glimpse of half a relevant sentence or something. They aren't used that much. The problem is the black bishop does not occur in south africa. There are some other books but they can't be seen. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea, it seems like an East African bird. Can you go look it up in the uni library when you get a chance?BarkingMoon (talk) 23:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be able to tomorrow (Sydney time) Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:37, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Today went pear-shaped and my free time evaporated, so I failed to get to the library :( I will have a last look online as I have some ideas. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:58, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:27, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Welcome!
 Hi, and welcome to the Birds WikiProject ! As you've probably guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of bird-related topics.

A few features that you may find helpful:


 * Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
 * Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you [ watchlist it].
 * The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, outreach, and other tasks.
 * If you're looking for something to work on, there are many articles that need attention.
 * Read our current newsletter, and sign up for (or opt out) of future issues.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any experienced member of the project; we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! MeegsC | Talk 22:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I noticed that you have joined our merry gang, if you need any help with resources, just ask on the project talk page. Some members have university library access, others have books or journals that we can scan relevant bits of and email to you.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  12:11, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 19:01, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox

 * If you start an article in your sandbox, then, when you have finished, please move your sandbox to the final name of the article. Please do not cut-and-paste. See Cut and paste move repair holding pen at 09:29, 2 June 2011 for 7 history-merges (repairs to cut-and-pastes) which I had to do, as your sandbox contained parts of the edit histories of 7 articles. If you find that that move is obstructed, then ask in Requested moves. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:37, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

More DYK tips

 * Add (e.g. between   and the first hook) when composing preps, especially composing by one hook at a time - this will tell other editors not to edit and avoid edit conflicts.
 * It is a good habit to leave one prep empty, to facilitate reshuffling of poorly composed preps. Materialscientist (talk) 00:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Duly noted. FYI, there's an empty queue you can move a prep into and free up another prep. BarkingMoon (talk) 00:55, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Black Bishop
I've just arisen from my slumbers (UK based), seen your email and replied. Any problems, let me know. Unfortunately, I only have the field guide, ideally you need a family monograph, but I don't have one for this group.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, got it. Thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 09:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I made some changes, revert any you don't like. Note that your country list doesn't match those given under subspecies  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  14:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi BarkingMoon: Here are a few more references available on-line...
 * A Bird Atlas of Kenya
 * The Live Bird Trade in Tanzania: Proceedings of a Workshop (talks about poorly worded quota having impact on this species)
 * Distribution and Taxonomy of the Birds of the World indicates who named subspecies and where they all are
 * CRC handbook of avian body masses

MeegsC | Talk 19:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * List of scholarly articles, with anything related to chess or churches removed for further research

DYK nomination of Black Bishop
Hello! Your submission of Black Bishop at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Diego Grez (talk) 20:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Prep Area 3
Hi. Prep Area 3 is missing (pictured) after St Giles' Church.--v/r - TP 02:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Will fix. Thanks. BarkingMoon (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox vs mainspace
This one at User:BarkingMoon/sandbox will be easy. I seriously recommend just doing it in mainspace as I have books with enough detail to punt it right over 1500 characters easily. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. I must be gaining some notoriety since I have sandbox watchers. I just wonder what kind. ;-) BarkingMoon (talk) 10:50, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Will make it a double with Blue-winged Pitta. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure thing! will help there too. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Bit lame but I thought it sounded funny - see Template_talk:Did_you_know...I really need to sleep as it is 1am here. Sorry about our conflicting ref styles and fmt glitches. Later. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:09, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. I really like the ref style I use as it keeps the long ref out of the text so when you're editing it's way easier to read. Hope that's okay. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:11, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Preparing DYK sets.
Hi BarkingMoon, I wanted to let you know about my edit to Prep 4. DYK additional rule D7, which recommends a funny, quirky, or upbeat hook. You assembled a fine set; it was just a little odd to end on a brutal murder. Thanks for assembling sets! OCNative (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:49, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Pitta
Oh, it's very close. I was shooting for GA, maybe FA, but then real life happened. Yeah, I guess I can start up on it again. There isn't a great deal that needs doing, I think I can expand the conservation stuff somewhat and maybe diet. Then its all the fiddly birdshit regarding em-dashes and the formatting semi-colons and the like. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  22:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Give me a day or two to get the book from the library I'll need. As for the refs on Common Diving-petrel - uh, I guess. I won't be able to add any more references myself as I don't understand how the system you're using works and am far too old to learn (ask Jim - it took me years to use any citation templates at all). Sabine's Sunbird  talk  01:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The statement The Common Diving-petrel lives in grasslands near oceans is nonsense. They breed in such habitats on islands, in burrows, but to say they live in meadows makes them sound like pipits! I've fixed it. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  02:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! BarkingMoon (talk) 02:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Funnily enough, although I've just finished reading The Jewel Hunter, I've never seen this page. I don't have Pittas, Broadbills and Asites &mdash; maybe I should get it just for the pics! SS has done a good job, I'd make the following suggestions.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The content of the lead is fine, but needs rolling into fewer paragraphs per WP:Lead
 * Some links need to be added to explain technical terms like endemic.
 * I ran checklinks, all external links work. The Pitta genus link points back to this article, no other dabs detected by dabcheck
 * Agree with SS, need a bit more on conservation, otherwise fine for content
 * Thanks Jim, all excellent points. I may even write an article on The Jewel Hunter. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Gita Dhyanam - edit conflict
Oddly, just as you moved Gita Dhyanam to the prep area, I tried to add these lines, and got an edit conflict (because you'd moved it):
 * ALT1: ... that the Gita Dhyanam, known as the Invocation to the Bhagavad Gita, compares the Upanishads to cows, and claims that God's grace can make the dumb speak? (pictured: Gita's traditional setting)

Perhaps you could somehow take the above possible ALT into account? Many thanks -- Presearch (talk) 15:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the same text and the photo, as mentioned in the review, isn't clear to people and it doesn't show up well in the small DYK space. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:48, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, the only difference in the ALT is that it contains the parenthetical text at the end, clarifying the pic. It was aimed to put another option on the table. But I defer to you, and those with fresher eyes for the topic, about whether such a parenthetical clarification makes a difference. Sounds like you've already been making that judgement call, and I respect that. All the best -- and thanks for keeping the DYK page going -- Presearch (talk) 15:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Super work so far
This is just to say thanks for the review of my DYK of Tetteh Quarshie Interchange. Hope to work with you on issues of mutual concern on WP. I admire you work so far, I think you are a fast learner and super worker. Keep it up. A friend called -- CrossTempleJay   →  talk 18:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Why thanks very much for taking the time to say so. Best wishes. BarkingMoon (talk) 18:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I am letting you know because you assisted in building the prep after it was cleared a second time and your feedback may be useful. Thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like it has been sorted out. BarkingMoon (talk) 23:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Common Diving-petrel & South Georgia Diving-petrel
Hi BarkingMoon, I've suggested a pithier hook at the DYK nomination for Common Diving-petrel and South Georgia Diving-petrel. Please comment there with your thoughts. OCNative (talk) 03:15, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Re:WT:DYK
Your help is appreciated, and we have no ranks at DYK. I didn't understand ... "That doesn't address my issues". Materialscientist (talk) 01:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It may at times seem like no one notices your contributions to the project, but we do appreciate your help. Shubinator (talk) 07:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe we have ever interacted; however, I have noticed your name quite often doing the valuable work of updating the prep queues. Having an editor who's judgment is sound and can be trusted as an extremely valuable asset to the DYK project. This allows an administrator to spend more time on other aspects, and (you may have already experienced) it is nice when promoting hooks to see those that have already been reviewed by an editor who is known for giving good, quality, and through reviews. The same can be said with those who can set-up well balanced queues and pick up on those that maybe should not be moved quite yet and addressed further. Just like to say thanks for the level of enthusiasm and work your doing. Kindly Calmer   Waters  02:20, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * WHy thank you very much! Yes, I don't think we've crosed paths before. Hope to see you around. BarkingMoon (talk) 09:50, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Yellow-crowned Bishop
Calmer  Waters  00:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC) 18:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

You were trying to do the right thing, and now look what you got!
 Betsythedevine has given you a kitten! Kittens promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Your kitten must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{subst:Kittynap}}.

Also, if any pesky birds start trouble with you, your own private personal kitten will give you a hand paw. betsythedevine (talk) 22:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Why thank you! BarkingMoon (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Hook swap
I moved around the last hook ("the quirky one")in prep1. If you feel that your original selection is more fitting feel free to switch it back. Kindly Calmer   Waters  04:46, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I think the two hooks are about equal in quirky-ville. BarkingMoon (talk) 09:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

reviews
Thanks for the keen eye on these. I think I've fixed the issues, save the ref formatting--I may just be missing the ones you're seeing as inconsistent. Is it possible you're just seeing the variation in how the "cite web" template displays anonymous articles and those with a known author? Feel free to answer me here or at DYK, I'm watching both. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 22:11, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Commented there. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:43, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we whipped the last stubborn refs into line. Game for one more look? Thanks again for your help. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 23:35, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

June 12
Thank you for the move to prep! - Do you mean my request to remove a summer pic from Sumer? That was done already. All looks fine! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:43, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder, that was BWV number yes or no, I prefer yes, and that is in prep. Same question for June 13, two ALTs approved, someone will have to make a choice, I would slightly prefer the one mentioning Pentecost, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for White-headed Buffalo Weaver
-- Calmer  Waters  19:00, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Patricia Preece
Hi. I have added more information about the nude portraits in the body of the article, and also added a cite. Let me know if you have any other questions. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good. BarkingMoon (talk) 23:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for White-winged Widowbird
Materialscientist (talk) 12:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Black Bishop
Materialscientist (talk) 18:04, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Hooded Dotterel
Materialscientist (talk) 00:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for DYK
Hi BarkingMoon, I noticed that you seem to like expanding bird articles (especially those that could be hooky), so you may be interested in Invisible Rail. It will take a bit of work, but a hook like "... that Maluku's Invisible Rails are in danger of disappearing?" would be worth it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:07, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at it. This might interest you as well (although the expansion is probably more difficult) "... that Pygmy Tits can be up to 8.7 cm in size?" Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for South Georgia Diving-petrel
Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Common Diving-petrel
Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Prep4
I am posting this because I have to go offline soon. We need a better hook for your lead in prep 4 - it is unclear now why we should compare these two species, and "the slurred call "wieuw-wieuw" is not a good fact for most readers. Crustaceans and mollusks are unusual diet for a land bird (Mangrove Pitta). An alternative could be on "the Mangrove Pitta is one of the easier ones to spot as it sits high up in mangrove trees and calls". I don't see right away how to get Blue-winged Pitta in it, mostly because its article is scarce on details. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 13:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I didn't move it there and that hook was duly approved. I'll see what can come up with. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * How about "...that Blue-winged Pitta, Indian Pitta, Fairy Pitta, and Mangrove Pitta form a superspecies? BarkingMoon (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought the slurred call sounded funny - like the bird was drunk or something. This could be tricky....Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Most small birds shriek.. sorry for delay, I have suggested an alternative hook in prep 4. Materialscientist (talk) 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That one's fine. Personally I think the superspecies one is better, but the snail one covers both articles which is what I'm mainly worried about. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Noel F. Parrish
did a little copy edit work there, but just on first section. Before I go any further, look through the changes and make sure I'm doing what you want. Feel free to revert if not. It's good work as it is on your own, and any two people are going to write with a different tone, so perhaps I'm not doing what you had hoped for. Either way, let me know, and if you'd like I'll continue. Cheers and best buddy. — Ched : ?  04:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * All good. Please continue.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Are we under any time crunch for this .. that is, are you (or have you already) put[ting] this up for DYK or anything? I'll be out of town most of tomorrow and tomorrow night, so it may be Sunday before I get back to it. — Ched :  ?  04:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I've already put it up for DYK. BarkingMoon (talk) 10:36, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Red-cheeked Parrot
Materialscientist (talk) 00:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Ummm...
Hey there Barking, ... I just noticed some of the comments you made on the ANI board (follow up thread) in respect to Delta/Betacommand. You are of course free to voice your thoughts and all - but maybe wait a bit before you jump into threads like that where folks who have been here for years are hashing things out. It's situations like that where basically two different camps or groups start fighting back and forth where it's real easy to get drawn in and the next thing you know you're in the middle of a mess that it's hard to get out of. I know for sure that Delta has had his share of issues, I started here right at the time he was going through his first Arb. case, and he lost his admin. bit. Usually if someone has been around that long, they honestly care about the Wiki too. It might not seem like it at the time, because of all the fuss that's going on, but usually it's a passion and emotional thing that's coming out. Delta is a computer person, and does do some very good work in that respect. I admit, he's not a "chit-chat" "how ya doin" kind of guy, but if you need someone to give you advice about technical aspects of computers, or programming, or technical wiki stuff ... then he's a great resource to have.

Like I said, it's totally your decision to make on when to say what and all, but sometimes when you start debating with ONE person, before you know it ... there's 10 of his friends there too going against ya. And usually there's at least one or two admins. in the group too. You're doing some great work here buddy, I'd just hate to see anyone get on your back just because you said something like "Aw come on [username], you know you love the drama". I know I get in my share of drama here .. especially lately .. but usually it's because I know the folks I'm dealing with first. Some folks you have to yell at to get their attention, others you need to pat on the back before they listen. Maybe wait until you get a feel for the whole situation before picking a side is all I'm saying buddy. Just a tip from an old man that's been around a while. Keep up the great article work ... wanna talk to you about that article we're working on too when we have time. Have a great weekend Barking. Cheers and best. :-) — Ched : ?  05:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. So let's discuss this here. A few points: a) if he didn't love the drama he'd stop the behaviors getting him into hot water and b) it sounds like you and several others are basically saying if someone does enough good work here it's okay for them to be a jackass. That is SO counterproductive, time and effort consuming, etc. Massive user hours are wasted on this sort of stuff because people can't behave and get along. So I can't say what I want because there's a pack of people out there who defend the right of someone to be a counterproductive jackass. Got it. That wiki is still giving such users (he's not the only one as we all know) uncountable chances after years of wasted effort is inane.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * "So I can't say what I want..." That's not at all what I was saying. In fact I said the exact opposite.  I'm sorry I said anything at all.  You ARE most certainly free to say what you feel, and I know there will be plenty of folks who agree with you.  I tend to have a very soft spot for people, and ..,.,. well ... never mind.  I'm very sorry I even brought it up. — Ched :  ?  12:33, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You and I can still talk I hope. Sorry if I upset you, that was my last intention. It just infuriates me that people who are so counterproductive and cause hundreds if not thousands of wiki user hours to be wasted on them seem to be allowed to rule the roost and wiki is incapable of getting a handle on them. BC is by no means the only user of his ilk. These user hours would so better be used producing good content. These are the precise reasons wiki will never become what it could be. It will always be den of ethnic warring, uncontrollable jackasses who abuse and brow beat productive users for all sorts of myopic reasons, and the tearing apart and destruction of otherwise good content for one real or perceived violation of a one of a myriad of wiki rules users are expected. Having a soft spot for people is fine for users who don't know better but BC and too many others have long outlived their slew of wiki lives and are just being counterproductive. The problem is wiki as a whole doesn't have the guts to solve the problem. From now on I'll just stick to new and expanding articles and DYK. That seems one of the semi-sane parts of wiki. I'm not going anywhere near FA and probably not GA.BarkingMoon (talk) 21:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not upset in the least. I just felt bad because I upset you, and that wasn't my intent.  I was just hoping to lend you a little insight from my experiences.  Honestly though .. I think it's a bit presumptuous to draw conclusions about another editor after only 6 weeks, but your choice.  If you see Delta/Beta at a drama board, it's almost always because someone is arguing about keeping some non-free content in an article.  He may not "create" in same fashion as many Mal, or Giano .. but 80% of his work is in article space.  Not many folks cans say that.  He'll never be a chatty kind of guy that gets all warm and fuzzy .. but he knows his shit... and to be honest ... 99% of the Bullshit now adays is either people that don't understand policy complaining because he removes stuff that should be removed .. OR .. those who knew him back when he was Beta, and carry a grudge because of his bot work.  Yes .. he wouldn't stop and discuss it .. he'd say I'm right, and keep going .. he got kicked to the curb for a YEAR .. a FREAKIN YEAR .. and during that time he was on IRC, reading, and helping other folks.  When the ban was over, he manned up, asked to come back, and is doing his best to help the project.  People keep poking at him, trying to piss him off deliberately so he WILL lose his temper .. and they can say "get rid of him".  You make you're own evaluation BM ... but I'm just telling you .. he's not the evil person you seem to have drawn the conclusion he is. ... And yes, ... I'll still work with you .. and finish the article ... I'm not upset at all.  I was disappointed you took my trying to help the way you did, and I never like it when 2 people I like don't get along.  I tried so hard to get Bugs and CoM to get along .. and even Bugs gave in and tried, but CoM had his back up against a wall, and wouldn't take the olive branch.  I felt bad about that one too.  Some people can't work well together ... there's even a few that I avoid .. and I mean like the freakin plague ... simply cause I know it would cause friction.  And when I DO lose my temper (which isn't often), I'm not someone that's fun to be around.  I can be nasty, hurtful, and downright mean - but when I start to feel that way .. I walk away from the keyboard. (usually).  If you check my contribs ... you'll see that I was gone for the best part of a year .... that was NOT an accident.  Most people don't know that .. and I doubt any of them know the real reasons why .. but I had good cause.  Trust me.  I KNOW when to walk away from a situation.  But enough ranting from me .. will continue doin my "thang" my friend.  Keep up the good work. — Ched :  ?  00:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've looked in archives at some of the old BC threads and seen several new ones. These aren't idle claims by people. There's fire there, not just smoke and mirrors. BC is rude, arrogant, and obnoxious, that's not what we need at a collaborative project. As for his ban, what you're basically saying is that he evaded his ban because he simply couldn't stay away. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and I stick by my claim that this sort of thing is why wiki will never become what it could be. I'm glad we can still be wiki buddies. BarkingMoon (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * HUH? .. where did I say he evaded his ban? .. he didn't. But .. ok. We each make our own choices .. and I AM proud of you for thinking for yourself and drawing your own conclusions.  We'll just avoid this topic :-) — Ched :  ?  00:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You didn't say the words "ban evasion" but you said he was doing things in IRC and in some thread somewhere I read he was doing other things he shouldn't have been while banned, but let's move on and yep avoid this ;-) BarkingMoon (talk) 00:47, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * * :-) — Ched : ?  01:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Mangrove Pitta
The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Blue-winged Pitta
The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

GGG
Thanks for your encouragement! Preparing to sing The Creation, I love the aria about the birds, but only eagle, lark, doves and nightingale mentioned. Keep adding birds, they also are all different! - Having said that, the nom for DYK 167 is waiting for a reply. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looked at your article, approved already. Is "After year in graduate school, he hitchhiked" a phrase I don't know or is something missing? "He did recall that when he was a youth" - can that be worded simpler? Also "recalled" appears again in the next sentence. Please use a consistent format for "T. Experiment". Perhaps use it as the title instead of "At T."? Minor stuff, good work! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I fixed all this. Feel free to review. "to hitchhike" is "per anhalten". I've linked it.BarkingMoon (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Misunderstading, we almost use hitchhike in German, smile. But I would understand "After a year". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Glas
BarkingMoon, I appreciate your good work at DYK. However, speed is not always of the essence. You moved one entry to the prep area and selected the alternate hook, without having given the author/nominator (ie., me) the opportunity to look at that alternate hook. As it happens, I don't have much of a problem with it, but it's only fair that an alternate hook is looked at by others as well. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 21:10, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your point, but it was approved and a good fit for the prep set. Speed had nothing to do with it.BarkingMoon (talk) 22:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it wasn't approved (unless you mean by you)--it was suggested by someone who also asked for others' comments. Speed has everything to do with it: that editor left a note on my talk page saying they had proposed another hook; by the time I got to it (an hour and a half later) it was already in the prep area. As it happens, on closer inspection it's hardly grammatically perfect. Better: ...Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak explained the structure of Jacques Derrida's 1974 book on Hegel and Genet as follows: "As the father's phallus works in the mother's hymen, between two legs, so Glas works at origins, between two columns"? A clause ending with "...was explained" usually is not simply followed by a colon and the explanation. But the ALT hook (now, ALT1 and my ALT2) has a wikilinked word in a quotation, which is contrary to the MOS. And that is the problem with moving a hook too quickly, without enough time for comments. At any rate, in my opinion, and I am the primary author of the article, the tweaked version of the ALT hook is better, though probably not yet perfect. Drmies (talk) 22:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Do with it as you like. I'll avoid your DYKs from now on. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't "do" anything with it--I don't know where it is. It's probably somewhere in template space. You moved it, you work in that area, you know how it works; I don't. And I don't think there is a need for a knee-jerk reaction. Hooks are important, since DYKs are important: they are an invitation to Wikipedia visitors to come and read our articles, and that is why it is important to have hooks proofread and tweaked, because not all of use see things the same way, and this is a collaborative effort. Glas is not time-bound, there is no rush--but if you knew Derrida's work, and what it is talking about, you'd know that it is important to get the little things right. The ALT hook improves, in my opinion, on my original hook, since it's much grippier, but writing is revising, as Derrida, Genet, Hegel, and presumably Spivak would tell you. And let me reiterate: I do appreciate your work at DYK; I couldn't do it. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's in Template:Did you know/Preparation area 2. Now please leave me alone. I came to wiki to edit in peace. I'm obviously in the wrong place.BarkingMoon (talk) 01:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No it's not. It's in 1. And are you suggesting that I go into a prep area and change a hook on an article I wrote myself? Without feedback or peer-review? Would that be in accordance with the newer, stricter DYK guidelines? I'll be glad to leave you alone, esp. since it's obvious you're not responding to what I am saying, or offering anything constructive in response. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Your great DYK nom
Just wanted to say how much I admired your research at American Women's Voluntary Services. You clearly did some digging on this one, and it paid off into a great start for an article. -- Khazar (talk) 21:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll be adding more refs. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for American Women's Voluntary Services
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * WOW thanks! I only posted it a few minutes ago and I wasn't expecting this! I have a friend who's showing me the ropes. Thanks! I'm putting it at DYK too. BarkingMoon (talk)

DYK nomination of Olivia Ward
Hello! Your submission of Olivia Ward at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Responded there.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Genevieve Foster
Just to let you know, I responded to your question at the DYK for Genevieve Foster. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks.BarkingMoon (talk) 00:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Jeanette Eaton
Hello! Your submission of Jeanette Eaton at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Drmies (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * All fixed now. BarkingMoon (talk) 02:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, these articles on these women authors, those are really useful. Thank you for contributing them. You know, my pen pal, User:LadyofShalott, is interested in such matters as well. Check out her user page; she's got some userboxes for Wikiprojects you might be interested in. Keep 'em coming! Drmies (talk) 03:00, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll check out LoS. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely doing some great work there Barking ... fantastic!!! — Ched : ?  22:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ched! Working on Agnes Hewes in my sandbox now. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Your DYK nomination
Hello! Your submission of Agnes Hewes at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Khazar (talk) 06:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Olivia Ward
Materialscientist (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Genevieve Foster
The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

A DYK tip
Avoid both approving and moving the same nomination to prep areas. Such action is reserved for emergencies when there are no approved hooks. Materialscientist (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I don't see what the big deal is there, but I will abide by the standards from now on. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The major idea is to have as many people as possible to look at the hook (for spelling, factual errors, WP:NPOV, image problems, etc.). Experience shows that we regularly miss obvious errors up to promotion to the main page. DYK is one of those areas where it is difficult to keep everything in one head. Promotion is the most important step because the promoter sees the entire review. It is time-consuming to recover it later for checking. Materialscientist (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You have a point, but if a hook fills well into a prep set (topic wise, etc) this shouldn't disqualify it. Now I totally agree one should not approve one's own hook, that's a major conflict of interest. I also see that the stale/problematic hooks seem to go neglected after a week or so. I'd expect that topic has come up before and no permanent solution has come about, probably because this is a volunteer project and the problem hooks require more effort. I'm new to all this and just let me know if I make more faux pas. I like making new articles and the DYK area--and it looks under manned. I've set a watch on your user page as you seem very active and knowledgeable in the DYK area. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no solid criterion for becoming "experienced" in DYK matters, thus a rule of thumb - when there are plenty of nominations approved by other editors, pick those first rather than review and promote in one step (and double check when promoting anyway). This rule is not invented by me and arguments are numerous. For example, some "green-light" reviews get questioned later. Materialscientist (talk) 13:48, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Numerous arguments seem aplenty all over wiki and it seems impossible to please everyone, just like in politics.BarkingMoon (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, we can't please everyone, but note (i) we very rarely revert other editors in the DYK area, and if we do, it means either a technical glitch or that the editor is not welcome there; (ii) wikipedia is uncensored, its main page is. DYK is a portal to the main page. Materialscientist (talk) 14:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell so far, there are lots of nice, helpful people around and those are the ones I try to hang around; but there are also many mean, disruptive zealots, many of whom seem real world ethnic warriors and various "agendaists" who use wiki to foment their real world agenda--those I try to stay away. I just want to edit in peace. It also seems the zealots get a lot of attention and there's no real truly effective way to deal with them. PS, I do a lot of cruising around looking and not making comments in such debates.BarkingMoon (talk) 14:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * DYK has always been a friendly area, where many editors work together to improve articles and hooks. Pushing political points of view is a recent and unfortunate tendency. Anyway, this collaboration hinges on participation of constructive editors, and yours is welcome. Materialscientist (talk) 14:29, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. You're very kind. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Another tip for this. A normal procedure is to notify the nominator after placing a negative tag or query. If the article can be rescued then a usual waiting time is a week after notifying. Materialscientist (talk) 10:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, but dang they've been there three weeks already. BarkingMoon (talk) 10:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the total time does not matter (many noms sit for weeks without review; or get nominated at WP:AFD, in which case the rule is to wait until the AFD is closed). What matters is the time since the last serious comment. Materialscientist (talk) 10:49, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, but by this point it's defeating the purpose of "newest articles".BarkingMoon (talk) 10:58, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "New" is vague. We ask to nominate 5(7-8) days from creation/expansion, but the timing for reviewing/promotion is uncertain. Materialscientist (talk) 11:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Yellow-crowned Bishop
Ok, added a bit and rejigged like other bird articles (one reason I stick taxonomy above description is so to move the later down the page and away from the taxobox in case we want to slot more images in (as description is a good place to put 'em). Now the tricky part is thniking of some hook. I can merge the page with the mainspace one, just let me know when you want to do this as it involves a little administrative fiddling around (luckily I am an admin so not too difficult). Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:08, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Responded on your talk page and thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 02:26, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Jeanette Eaton
The DYK project (nominate) 16:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Agnes Hewes
The DYK project (nominate) 08:04, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Google books
One thing I do is get familiar with what's on google books in terms of bird field guides etc. in Full View or decent Preview. I found one on South Africa, and South and Central America are well represented (hence my recent expansions on a couple of Tanagers), but apparently the settings differ between countries, so you may not see them (?). Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * got a link? If not I'll try to find them. I just joined WP:Birds too.BarkingMoon (talk) 20:20, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look through the last two Tanager articles I've just been working on (just look through my contrib history), see the refs and click on them and let me know if you get preview, snippet view or no view. gotta run and fix something,,,, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I see this (and other google books) and can read the tanager article, but how do I know if it's full/preview/snip view? I'm trying to find a google book on birds of africa that has article text......BarkingMoon (talk) 21:07, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Here are some: User:BarkingMoon/Tools but not a darn one has anything on black bishops. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:26, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll see on google books, some will say "snippet view" and you'll get a tantalising glimpse of half a relevant sentence or something. They aren't used that much. The problem is the black bishop does not occur in south africa. There are some other books but they can't be seen. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea, it seems like an East African bird. Can you go look it up in the uni library when you get a chance?BarkingMoon (talk) 23:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be able to tomorrow (Sydney time) Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:37, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Today went pear-shaped and my free time evaporated, so I failed to get to the library :( I will have a last look online as I have some ideas. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:58, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:27, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Welcome!
 Hi, and welcome to the Birds WikiProject ! As you've probably guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of bird-related topics.

A few features that you may find helpful:


 * Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
 * Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you [ watchlist it].
 * The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, outreach, and other tasks.
 * If you're looking for something to work on, there are many articles that need attention.
 * Read our current newsletter, and sign up for (or opt out) of future issues.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any experienced member of the project; we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! MeegsC | Talk 22:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I noticed that you have joined our merry gang, if you need any help with resources, just ask on the project talk page. Some members have university library access, others have books or journals that we can scan relevant bits of and email to you.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  12:11, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 19:01, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox

 * If you start an article in your sandbox, then, when you have finished, please move your sandbox to the final name of the article. Please do not cut-and-paste. See Cut and paste move repair holding pen at 09:29, 2 June 2011 for 7 history-merges (repairs to cut-and-pastes) which I had to do, as your sandbox contained parts of the edit histories of 7 articles. If you find that that move is obstructed, then ask in Requested moves. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:37, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

More DYK tips

 * Add (e.g. between   and the first hook) when composing preps, especially composing by one hook at a time - this will tell other editors not to edit and avoid edit conflicts.
 * It is a good habit to leave one prep empty, to facilitate reshuffling of poorly composed preps. Materialscientist (talk) 00:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Duly noted. FYI, there's an empty queue you can move a prep into and free up another prep. BarkingMoon (talk) 00:55, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Black Bishop
I've just arisen from my slumbers (UK based), seen your email and replied. Any problems, let me know. Unfortunately, I only have the field guide, ideally you need a family monograph, but I don't have one for this group.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, got it. Thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 09:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I made some changes, revert any you don't like. Note that your country list doesn't match those given under subspecies <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi BarkingMoon: Here are a few more references available on-line...
 * A Bird Atlas of Kenya
 * The Live Bird Trade in Tanzania: Proceedings of a Workshop (talks about poorly worded quota having impact on this species)
 * Distribution and Taxonomy of the Birds of the World indicates who named subspecies and where they all are
 * CRC handbook of avian body masses

MeegsC | Talk 19:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * List of scholarly articles, with anything related to chess or churches removed for further research

DYK nomination of Black Bishop
Hello! Your submission of Black Bishop at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Diego Grez (talk) 20:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Prep Area 3
Hi. Prep Area 3 is missing (pictured) after St Giles' Church.--v/r - TP 02:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Will fix. Thanks. BarkingMoon (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandbox vs mainspace
This one at User:BarkingMoon/sandbox will be easy. I seriously recommend just doing it in mainspace as I have books with enough detail to punt it right over 1500 characters easily. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. I must be gaining some notoriety since I have sandbox watchers. I just wonder what kind. ;-) BarkingMoon (talk) 10:50, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Will make it a double with Blue-winged Pitta. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure thing! will help there too. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Bit lame but I thought it sounded funny - see Template_talk:Did_you_know...I really need to sleep as it is 1am here. Sorry about our conflicting ref styles and fmt glitches. Later. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:09, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. I really like the ref style I use as it keeps the long ref out of the text so when you're editing it's way easier to read. Hope that's okay. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:11, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Preparing DYK sets.
Hi BarkingMoon, I wanted to let you know about my edit to Prep 4. DYK additional rule D7, which recommends a funny, quirky, or upbeat hook. You assembled a fine set; it was just a little odd to end on a brutal murder. Thanks for assembling sets! OCNative (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:49, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Pitta
Oh, it's very close. I was shooting for GA, maybe FA, but then real life happened. Yeah, I guess I can start up on it again. There isn't a great deal that needs doing, I think I can expand the conservation stuff somewhat and maybe diet. Then its all the fiddly birdshit regarding em-dashes and the formatting semi-colons and the like. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  22:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Give me a day or two to get the book from the library I'll need. As for the refs on Common Diving-petrel - uh, I guess. I won't be able to add any more references myself as I don't understand how the system you're using works and am far too old to learn (ask Jim - it took me years to use any citation templates at all). Sabine's Sunbird  talk  01:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The statement The Common Diving-petrel lives in grasslands near oceans is nonsense. They breed in such habitats on islands, in burrows, but to say they live in meadows makes them sound like pipits! I've fixed it. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  02:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! BarkingMoon (talk) 02:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Funnily enough, although I've just finished reading The Jewel Hunter, I've never seen this page. I don't have Pittas, Broadbills and Asites &mdash; maybe I should get it just for the pics! SS has done a good job, I'd make the following suggestions. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The content of the lead is fine, but needs rolling into fewer paragraphs per WP:Lead
 * Some links need to be added to explain technical terms like endemic.
 * I ran checklinks, all external links work. The Pitta genus link points back to this article, no other dabs detected by dabcheck
 * Agree with SS, need a bit more on conservation, otherwise fine for content
 * Thanks Jim, all excellent points. I may even write an article on The Jewel Hunter. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Gita Dhyanam - edit conflict
Oddly, just as you moved Gita Dhyanam to the prep area, I tried to add these lines, and got an edit conflict (because you'd moved it):
 * ALT1: ... that the Gita Dhyanam, known as the Invocation to the Bhagavad Gita, compares the Upanishads to cows, and claims that God's grace can make the dumb speak? (pictured: Gita's traditional setting)

Perhaps you could somehow take the above possible ALT into account? Many thanks -- Presearch (talk) 15:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the same text and the photo, as mentioned in the review, isn't clear to people and it doesn't show up well in the small DYK space. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:48, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, the only difference in the ALT is that it contains the parenthetical text at the end, clarifying the pic. It was aimed to put another option on the table. But I defer to you, and those with fresher eyes for the topic, about whether such a parenthetical clarification makes a difference. Sounds like you've already been making that judgement call, and I respect that. All the best -- and thanks for keeping the DYK page going -- Presearch (talk) 15:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Super work so far
This is just to say thanks for the review of my DYK of Tetteh Quarshie Interchange. Hope to work with you on issues of mutual concern on WP. I admire you work so far, I think you are a fast learner and super worker. Keep it up. A friend called --<span style="border:1px solid #000073;background:#4D4DA6;padding:2px;color:yellow;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em"> CrossTempleJay   →  talk 18:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Why thanks very much for taking the time to say so. Best wishes. BarkingMoon (talk) 18:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I am letting you know because you assisted in building the prep after it was cleared a second time and your feedback may be useful. Thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like it has been sorted out. BarkingMoon (talk) 23:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Common Diving-petrel & South Georgia Diving-petrel
Hi BarkingMoon, I've suggested a pithier hook at the DYK nomination for Common Diving-petrel and South Georgia Diving-petrel. Please comment there with your thoughts. OCNative (talk) 03:15, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Re:WT:DYK
Your help is appreciated, and we have no ranks at DYK. I didn't understand ... "That doesn't address my issues". Materialscientist (talk) 01:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It may at times seem like no one notices your contributions to the project, but we do appreciate your help. Shubinator (talk) 07:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe we have ever interacted; however, I have noticed your name quite often doing the valuable work of updating the prep queues. Having an editor who's judgment is sound and can be trusted as an extremely valuable asset to the DYK project. This allows an administrator to spend more time on other aspects, and (you may have already experienced) it is nice when promoting hooks to see those that have already been reviewed by an editor who is known for giving good, quality, and through reviews. The same can be said with those who can set-up well balanced queues and pick up on those that maybe should not be moved quite yet and addressed further. Just like to say thanks for the level of enthusiasm and work your doing. Kindly Calmer   Waters  02:20, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * WHy thank you very much! Yes, I don't think we've crosed paths before. Hope to see you around. BarkingMoon (talk) 09:50, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Yellow-crowned Bishop
Calmer  Waters  00:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC) 18:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

You were trying to do the right thing, and now look what you got!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:9px;" class="plainlinks"> Betsythedevine has given you a kitten! Kittens promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Your kitten must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{subst:Kittynap}}.

Also, if any pesky birds start trouble with you, your own private personal kitten will give you a hand paw. betsythedevine (talk) 22:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Why thank you! BarkingMoon (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Hook swap
I moved around the last hook ("the quirky one")in prep1. If you feel that your original selection is more fitting feel free to switch it back. Kindly Calmer   Waters  04:46, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I think the two hooks are about equal in quirky-ville. BarkingMoon (talk) 09:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

reviews
Thanks for the keen eye on these. I think I've fixed the issues, save the ref formatting--I may just be missing the ones you're seeing as inconsistent. Is it possible you're just seeing the variation in how the "cite web" template displays anonymous articles and those with a known author? Feel free to answer me here or at DYK, I'm watching both. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 22:11, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Commented there. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:43, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we whipped the last stubborn refs into line. Game for one more look? Thanks again for your help. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 23:35, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

June 12
Thank you for the move to prep! - Do you mean my request to remove a summer pic from Sumer? That was done already. All looks fine! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:43, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder, that was BWV number yes or no, I prefer yes, and that is in prep. Same question for June 13, two ALTs approved, someone will have to make a choice, I would slightly prefer the one mentioning Pentecost, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for White-headed Buffalo Weaver
-- Calmer  Waters  19:00, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Patricia Preece
Hi. I have added more information about the nude portraits in the body of the article, and also added a cite. Let me know if you have any other questions. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good. BarkingMoon (talk) 23:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for White-winged Widowbird
Materialscientist (talk) 12:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Black Bishop
Materialscientist (talk) 18:04, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Hooded Dotterel
Materialscientist (talk) 00:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for DYK
Hi BarkingMoon, I noticed that you seem to like expanding bird articles (especially those that could be hooky), so you may be interested in Invisible Rail. It will take a bit of work, but a hook like "... that Maluku's Invisible Rails are in danger of disappearing?" would be worth it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:07, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look at it. This might interest you as well (although the expansion is probably more difficult) "... that Pygmy Tits can be up to 8.7 cm in size?" Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for South Georgia Diving-petrel
Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Common Diving-petrel
Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Prep4
I am posting this because I have to go offline soon. We need a better hook for your lead in prep 4 - it is unclear now why we should compare these two species, and "the slurred call "wieuw-wieuw" is not a good fact for most readers. Crustaceans and mollusks are unusual diet for a land bird (Mangrove Pitta). An alternative could be on "the Mangrove Pitta is one of the easier ones to spot as it sits high up in mangrove trees and calls". I don't see right away how to get Blue-winged Pitta in it, mostly because its article is scarce on details. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 13:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I didn't move it there and that hook was duly approved. I'll see what can come up with. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * How about "...that Blue-winged Pitta, Indian Pitta, Fairy Pitta, and Mangrove Pitta form a superspecies? BarkingMoon (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought the slurred call sounded funny - like the bird was drunk or something. This could be tricky....Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Most small birds shriek.. sorry for delay, I have suggested an alternative hook in prep 4. Materialscientist (talk) 11:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That one's fine. Personally I think the superspecies one is better, but the snail one covers both articles which is what I'm mainly worried about. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Noel F. Parrish
did a little copy edit work there, but just on first section. Before I go any further, look through the changes and make sure I'm doing what you want. Feel free to revert if not. It's good work as it is on your own, and any two people are going to write with a different tone, so perhaps I'm not doing what you had hoped for. Either way, let me know, and if you'd like I'll continue. Cheers and best buddy. — Ched : ?  04:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * All good. Please continue.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Are we under any time crunch for this .. that is, are you (or have you already) put[ting] this up for DYK or anything? I'll be out of town most of tomorrow and tomorrow night, so it may be Sunday before I get back to it. — Ched :  ?  04:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I've already put it up for DYK. BarkingMoon (talk) 10:36, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Red-cheeked Parrot
Materialscientist (talk) 00:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Ummm...
Hey there Barking, ... I just noticed some of the comments you made on the ANI board (follow up thread) in respect to Delta/Betacommand. You are of course free to voice your thoughts and all - but maybe wait a bit before you jump into threads like that where folks who have been here for years are hashing things out. It's situations like that where basically two different camps or groups start fighting back and forth where it's real easy to get drawn in and the next thing you know you're in the middle of a mess that it's hard to get out of. I know for sure that Delta has had his share of issues, I started here right at the time he was going through his first Arb. case, and he lost his admin. bit. Usually if someone has been around that long, they honestly care about the Wiki too. It might not seem like it at the time, because of all the fuss that's going on, but usually it's a passion and emotional thing that's coming out. Delta is a computer person, and does do some very good work in that respect. I admit, he's not a "chit-chat" "how ya doin" kind of guy, but if you need someone to give you advice about technical aspects of computers, or programming, or technical wiki stuff ... then he's a great resource to have.

Like I said, it's totally your decision to make on when to say what and all, but sometimes when you start debating with ONE person, before you know it ... there's 10 of his friends there too going against ya. And usually there's at least one or two admins. in the group too. You're doing some great work here buddy, I'd just hate to see anyone get on your back just because you said something like "Aw come on [username], you know you love the drama". I know I get in my share of drama here .. especially lately .. but usually it's because I know the folks I'm dealing with first. Some folks you have to yell at to get their attention, others you need to pat on the back before they listen. Maybe wait until you get a feel for the whole situation before picking a side is all I'm saying buddy. Just a tip from an old man that's been around a while. Keep up the great article work ... wanna talk to you about that article we're working on too when we have time. Have a great weekend Barking. Cheers and best. :-) — Ched : ?  05:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. So let's discuss this here. A few points: a) if he didn't love the drama he'd stop the behaviors getting him into hot water and b) it sounds like you and several others are basically saying if someone does enough good work here it's okay for them to be a jackass. That is SO counterproductive, time and effort consuming, etc. Massive user hours are wasted on this sort of stuff because people can't behave and get along. So I can't say what I want because there's a pack of people out there who defend the right of someone to be a counterproductive jackass. Got it. That wiki is still giving such users (he's not the only one as we all know) uncountable chances after years of wasted effort is inane.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * "So I can't say what I want..." That's not at all what I was saying. In fact I said the exact opposite.  I'm sorry I said anything at all.  You ARE most certainly free to say what you feel, and I know there will be plenty of folks who agree with you.  I tend to have a very soft spot for people, and ..,.,. well ... never mind.  I'm very sorry I even brought it up. — Ched :  ?  12:33, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You and I can still talk I hope. Sorry if I upset you, that was my last intention. It just infuriates me that people who are so counterproductive and cause hundreds if not thousands of wiki user hours to be wasted on them seem to be allowed to rule the roost and wiki is incapable of getting a handle on them. BC is by no means the only user of his ilk. These user hours would so better be used producing good content. These are the precise reasons wiki will never become what it could be. It will always be den of ethnic warring, uncontrollable jackasses who abuse and brow beat productive users for all sorts of myopic reasons, and the tearing apart and destruction of otherwise good content for one real or perceived violation of a one of a myriad of wiki rules users are expected. Having a soft spot for people is fine for users who don't know better but BC and too many others have long outlived their slew of wiki lives and are just being counterproductive. The problem is wiki as a whole doesn't have the guts to solve the problem. From now on I'll just stick to new and expanding articles and DYK. That seems one of the semi-sane parts of wiki. I'm not going anywhere near FA and probably not GA.BarkingMoon (talk) 21:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not upset in the least. I just felt bad because I upset you, and that wasn't my intent.  I was just hoping to lend you a little insight from my experiences.  Honestly though .. I think it's a bit presumptuous to draw conclusions about another editor after only 6 weeks, but your choice.  If you see Delta/Beta at a drama board, it's almost always because someone is arguing about keeping some non-free content in an article.  He may not "create" in same fashion as many Mal, or Giano .. but 80% of his work is in article space.  Not many folks cans say that.  He'll never be a chatty kind of guy that gets all warm and fuzzy .. but he knows his shit... and to be honest ... 99% of the Bullshit now adays is either people that don't understand policy complaining because he removes stuff that should be removed .. OR .. those who knew him back when he was Beta, and carry a grudge because of his bot work.  Yes .. he wouldn't stop and discuss it .. he'd say I'm right, and keep going .. he got kicked to the curb for a YEAR .. a FREAKIN YEAR .. and during that time he was on IRC, reading, and helping other folks.  When the ban was over, he manned up, asked to come back, and is doing his best to help the project.  People keep poking at him, trying to piss him off deliberately so he WILL lose his temper .. and they can say "get rid of him".  You make you're own evaluation BM ... but I'm just telling you .. he's not the evil person you seem to have drawn the conclusion he is. ... And yes, ... I'll still work with you .. and finish the article ... I'm not upset at all.  I was disappointed you took my trying to help the way you did, and I never like it when 2 people I like don't get along.  I tried so hard to get Bugs and CoM to get along .. and even Bugs gave in and tried, but CoM had his back up against a wall, and wouldn't take the olive branch.  I felt bad about that one too.  Some people can't work well together ... there's even a few that I avoid .. and I mean like the freakin plague ... simply cause I know it would cause friction.  And when I DO lose my temper (which isn't often), I'm not someone that's fun to be around.  I can be nasty, hurtful, and downright mean - but when I start to feel that way .. I walk away from the keyboard. (usually).  If you check my contribs ... you'll see that I was gone for the best part of a year .... that was NOT an accident.  Most people don't know that .. and I doubt any of them know the real reasons why .. but I had good cause.  Trust me.  I KNOW when to walk away from a situation.  But enough ranting from me .. will continue doin my "thang" my friend.  Keep up the good work. — Ched :  ?  00:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've looked in archives at some of the old BC threads and seen several new ones. These aren't idle claims by people. There's fire there, not just smoke and mirrors. BC is rude, arrogant, and obnoxious, that's not what we need at a collaborative project. As for his ban, what you're basically saying is that he evaded his ban because he simply couldn't stay away. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and I stick by my claim that this sort of thing is why wiki will never become what it could be. I'm glad we can still be wiki buddies. BarkingMoon (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * HUH? .. where did I say he evaded his ban? .. he didn't. But .. ok. We each make our own choices .. and I AM proud of you for thinking for yourself and drawing your own conclusions.  We'll just avoid this topic :-) — Ched :  ?  00:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You didn't say the words "ban evasion" but you said he was doing things in IRC and in some thread somewhere I read he was doing other things he shouldn't have been while banned, but let's move on and yep avoid this ;-) BarkingMoon (talk) 00:47, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * * :-) — Ched : ?  01:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Mangrove Pitta
The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Blue-winged Pitta
The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

GGG
Thanks for your encouragement! Preparing to sing The Creation, I love the aria about the birds, but only eagle, lark, doves and nightingale mentioned. Keep adding birds, they also are all different! - Having said that, the nom for DYK 167 is waiting for a reply. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looked at your article, approved already. Is "After year in graduate school, he hitchhiked" a phrase I don't know or is something missing? "He did recall that when he was a youth" - can that be worded simpler? Also "recalled" appears again in the next sentence. Please use a consistent format for "T. Experiment". Perhaps use it as the title instead of "At T."? Minor stuff, good work! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I fixed all this. Feel free to review. "to hitchhike" is "per anhalten". I've linked it.BarkingMoon (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Misunderstading, we almost use hitchhike in German, smile. But I would understand "After a year". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Glas
BarkingMoon, I appreciate your good work at DYK. However, speed is not always of the essence. You moved one entry to the prep area and selected the alternate hook, without having given the author/nominator (ie., me) the opportunity to look at that alternate hook. As it happens, I don't have much of a problem with it, but it's only fair that an alternate hook is looked at by others as well. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 21:10, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your point, but it was approved and a good fit for the prep set. Speed had nothing to do with it.BarkingMoon (talk) 22:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it wasn't approved (unless you mean by you)--it was suggested by someone who also asked for others' comments. Speed has everything to do with it: that editor left a note on my talk page saying they had proposed another hook; by the time I got to it (an hour and a half later) it was already in the prep area. As it happens, on closer inspection it's hardly grammatically perfect. Better: ...Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak explained the structure of Jacques Derrida's 1974 book on Hegel and Genet as follows: "As the father's phallus works in the mother's hymen, between two legs, so Glas works at origins, between two columns"? A clause ending with "...was explained" usually is not simply followed by a colon and the explanation. But the ALT hook (now, ALT1 and my ALT2) has a wikilinked word in a quotation, which is contrary to the MOS. And that is the problem with moving a hook too quickly, without enough time for comments. At any rate, in my opinion, and I am the primary author of the article, the tweaked version of the ALT hook is better, though probably not yet perfect. Drmies (talk) 22:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Do with it as you like. I'll avoid your DYKs from now on. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't "do" anything with it--I don't know where it is. It's probably somewhere in template space. You moved it, you work in that area, you know how it works; I don't. And I don't think there is a need for a knee-jerk reaction. Hooks are important, since DYKs are important: they are an invitation to Wikipedia visitors to come and read our articles, and that is why it is important to have hooks proofread and tweaked, because not all of use see things the same way, and this is a collaborative effort. Glas is not time-bound, there is no rush--but if you knew Derrida's work, and what it is talking about, you'd know that it is important to get the little things right. The ALT hook improves, in my opinion, on my original hook, since it's much grippier, but writing is revising, as Derrida, Genet, Hegel, and presumably Spivak would tell you. And let me reiterate: I do appreciate your work at DYK; I couldn't do it. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's in Template:Did you know/Preparation area 2. Now please leave me alone. I came to wiki to edit in peace. I'm obviously in the wrong place.BarkingMoon (talk) 01:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No it's not. It's in 1. And are you suggesting that I go into a prep area and change a hook on an article I wrote myself? Without feedback or peer-review? Would that be in accordance with the newer, stricter DYK guidelines? I'll be glad to leave you alone, esp. since it's obvious you're not responding to what I am saying, or offering anything constructive in response. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Please come back and play with the rest of us
Life is too short to retire from Wikipedia, and besides, we need you.  Sharktopus  <sup style="color:black;">talk 12:29, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I echo Sharktopus's sentiment. I'm sorry you seemed to have been having a bad day. While there will always be some disagreements here - it's part of the nature of the process - they get worked out and you move on, creating something better than you might have in the first place. You have added some good content to Wikipedia, and I was glad to work with you on some of those articles. Please don't let one thing like this run you off. Lady  of  Shalott  12:41, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Same here. As I said before, your work at DYK is greatly appreciated. Drmies (talk) 13:57, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what really happened, but maybe I can share something with you. As someone who was almost obsessed with DYK in the beginning of my editing here, fretting if too many or all the queues were empty, spending many hours setting up preps, reviewing submissions, etc. I started experiencing burnout and had to step away for awhile. It is obvious the project is important to you, but also remember that it is a big project with many members who can take some of that load off of you in regards to preps and reviewing. It also allows others to sometimes step up (as you have done) and try their hand. Maybe take a little time to recoup, and then when your ready come back. As said above and before, your work is indeed appreciated. Kindly  Calmer   Waters  14:29, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm going to add my voice to the masses. You have done great things at DYK; for example, your work with Invisible Rail looks fantastic! I hope you take the time to read these messages, because there are a lot of people who want you to come back. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

HUH? What's goin on BM? Thought we were working on Noel F. Parrish. If you want, drop me an email and fill me in. If there's something I can do to help, I certainly try. Hope it's just a bad day and you'll be right back soon. Cheers buddy. — Ched : ?  20:20, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, please, come back! You told me to keep going, now I tell you, missing you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you to all
Thanks to all for the support the last few days. I have been under real and wiki stress (over 2600 edits in 6 weeks). The break did me good. Thanks again.BarkingMoon (talk) 00:10, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to have you back. — Ched : ?  02:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed!   Sharktopus  <sup style="color:black;">talk  02:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Relieved! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Noel F. Parrish
The DYK project (nominate) 00:05, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gerda! BarkingMoon (talk) 12:07, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This is such an interesting article, but one I would probably not have seen if not for you and DYK. So glad you are back with us.   Sharktopus  <sup style="color:black;">talk  12:49, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Why thanks Sharky. Glad you liked it. BarkingMoon (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Soldiers Chapel
Thanks for the nice new one, I found it approved. Bach's cantata might be moved, I like the pic! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad you like it. You mean the cantata might get renamed? BarkingMoon (talk) 22:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the DYK hook for Soldier's Chapel and left an idea for expansion on the talk page.  Montanabw (talk) 03:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks MTBW. Hopefully we can find sources for it.BarkingMoon (talk) 10:36, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Wink
Corrected some geography: http://nris.mt.gov/gis/gisdatalib/downloads/hwymapmdt.pdf   National news articles sort of miss geographic nuance, Billings Gazette probably best coverage of the 2011 flooding in MT (wink). I don't focus on MT articles, but should you need a hand, drop me a line and I'll point you in the right direction ;-) (smiles)  Montanabw (talk) 19:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Taking another ? to you. BarkingMoon (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not official, but I think accurate: http://www.montanariveraction.org/musselshell.river.html Will look for official — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montanabw (talk • contribs)
 * Yea, I'm using that a lot to expand it. BarkingMoon (talk) 19:38, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a bunch of official, but sort scanned, very little on length, and not word searchable. However, Chapter 1 (several pages in, designated page 1, though) seems to explain why the different numbers for length, appears to be whether you count the headwater tributaries (there are two) or not -- and probably if they count both of them or not.  http://dnrc.mt.gov/wrd/water_mgmt/surfacewaterstudies/pdfs/musselshell_rbwm_study_appendixes.pdf   Martinsdale to Fort Peck stretch is the "official" river, but the two tributaries originate, obviously, more miles away.  Good luck from here!   Montanabw (talk) 19:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Much thanks!BarkingMoon (talk) 20:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

BTW, also did a quick drive-by of Montana Stream Access Law, I probably will not be back there (have compelling real life reasons to not raise my blood pressure editing these sorts of articles) but provided some stuff that may be helpful to others working on it. Montanabw (talk) 20:33, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, but why is the Musselshell not listed in the stream access article?BarkingMoon (talk) 20:41, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Follow the money (grin)! Not a lot of trout there (mostly Browns that don't get super big) and you can't float a boatload of tourists down it in the summer. Dewatering from irrigation impacts the fishery for sure, so whatever is in there has to be OK with warm water and not too much of it.  Attractive little river, but most floaters can't navigate in anything larger than an inner tube, people don't like to have the whitefish outnumber trout, and Harlow isn't exactly a tourist mecca for the state.  see this ;-)   Montanabw (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Idea
If you wanted to do up an article on the 2011 floods throughout Montana, it might be interesting. Missoula had some near-misses due to the Clark Fork and a 3-year old boy drowned in Helena. Scary stuff. Montanabw (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Invisible Rail
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Too Young the Hero
Hello! Your submission of Too Young the Hero at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Calmer  Waters  08:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK of Baku Museum of Modern Art in Azerbaijan
Hi, I was wondering if you'd be interested in weighing in at the DYK nomination for the Baku Museum of Modern Art. OCNative (talk) 10:17, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Later today.BarkingMoon (talk) 11:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * events have changed. I don't have a lot of energy right now. BarkingMoon (talk) 23:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I see your sticky situation on the rest of your talk page, so I understand. Don't worry about it, as Yngvadottir managed to resolve the Baku Museum of Modern Art issue. Regarding this other stuff, for what it's worth, my interactions with you have always been constructive and courteous over these past couple months, and I've considered you a great addition to Wikipedia. OCNative (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Please take more care
Hi,

Can you please take more care when moving DYK to the prep area. You moved Aguamilpa Dam & Zimapán Dam to the prep area when a question had yet to be answered. Thanks Lightmouse (talk) 10:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So sorry. I'm not trying to cause any problems.BarkingMoon (talk) 11:34, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I know it was unintentional, I'm just letting you know. The fast pace at DYK is partly the cause. More time for adequate review and fewer cycles per day would help. Thanks for your kind response. Lightmouse (talk) 11:39, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Apologies
I apologize for some of my colleagues, many of whom should know better. Please continue with what you were doing. Your efforts are greatly appreciated. — Ched : ?  13:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. There's nothing for anyone to find out. BarkingMoon (talk) 14:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What prompted your comments to Giacomo that implied you knew him from "way back"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * At least you asked but given how this mess has gone, most people would just see things that aren't there. BarkingMoon (talk) 15:05, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You made comments to Giacomo that suggested you and he have a history. Then he came back with innuendo but no direct accusation. So just how do you know so much about Giacomo? And just so we're clear on this, he's no pal of mine either - I've found him to be difficult. Hence I generally stay away from him. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Giano is a fantastic writer. He is also not shy about speaking his mind.  Wikipedaia maintains all the past history of things said, and it's easy to go back and read those discussions.  Folks will draw conclusions from those things that were said in the past.  Everyone .. and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes.  What we post on WP, once we hit that save button, is gonna be there forever.  It's wrong to draw conclusions about someone over a bunch of text that was dumped in the heat of the moment.  That whole AGF thing is such a wonderful concept.  — Ched :  ?  16:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Pics
Thanks for getting the pics, nicely representative. Montanabw (talk) 21:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. I was surprised the guy agreed, but he was great about it. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:07, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

SPI
It looks they've figured out who your previous identities were. Things might go better if you would own up to your past before the checkusers bring the hammer down, as I think you'll find some support here, given that your work under your current ID has been reasonable. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There is only one admin I trust. I don't trust arbcom. I am not editing with other accounts. My story is kind of unique and if I told it could harm myself and another person and I can't do that. This is just a web site. So if wiki is more worried about following certain rules, that's fine, no need for checkuser, just block me and end the drama.BarkingMoon (talk) 09:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't need drama; if you need to make contact with that admin go straight ahead and we can try to work it out between you; that admin; arbcom and other miscellaneous involved people. In the end you probably will be able to edit - for god's sake you've already made some good articles! Just make the effort to do the "right" thing. Don't make it overly-difficult for yourself. -- Addi hockey  10  e-mail 18:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I already talked to the admin.BarkingMoon (talk) 20:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you'd like you could talk to me; do you plan on returning? I'm sure we could work it out. -- Addi hockey  10  e-mail 01:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * BarkingMoon, could you please identify the admin in question? Otherwise, the evidence would appear to show that there is a violation of WP:SOCK, which could result in the account being blocked.   Will Beback    talk    02:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I will not ID the admin. That decision is hers/his. But do what you have to do, but you'd be blocking the wrong account and for the wrong reason.BarkingMoon (talk) 02:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Then please shed light on the matter and either identify your previous account, or explain why you are editing the same articles from the same POV as a vanished editor.   Will Beback    talk    02:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already explained here on this page why I can't do that. But to summarize, real people are more important than a website. Block away if that's what you feel you have to do.BarkingMoon (talk) 02:29, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * What is it you want to know Will? There's an open SPI case isn't there?  The editor you're badgering has stated they are NOT first: Mattisse, and now Rlevse.  They've requested wp:cleanstart from the get go.  They are NOT obligated to inform anyone of their past account. — Ched :  ?  02:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I won't comment here further beyond reminding folks that both WP:CLEANSTART and WP:VANISH have conditions which have to be met.   Will Beback    talk    08:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Invisible Rail
Welcome back, and I must say congratulations! Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting article. I never heard of that bird before. The one thing that's puzzling is why it's called "invisible", which the article does not explain. It's certainly not invisible. Is it called that because it's flightless, dark-feathered, and presumably not seen frequently? (I'm thinking of another naming oddity, "Lost Lake", in Oregon, which is certainly not "lost" as it appears in many a travel brochure). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing said why, I can only presume because it's hard to see in the wild.BarkingMoon (talk) 09:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK promoting
Just FYI, at standard practice at DYK is to avoid promoting to prep the same hooks that you reviewed and verified (i.e., what you did here). When there is no hurry to put a prep together and no shortage of verified hooks, it's better to select hooks verified by other reviewers, and let someone else promote the hooks that you verified; this provides an extra set of eyes to double-check your reviewing. In this case, even after your review both the hook and the article had problems, and someone might have caught them earlier if you hadn't promoted the hook yourself.

I am not trying to attack you here and there's no need to retire again over constructive criticism. I'm aware that this guideline is not made clear at Did you know/Guide, so I am just trying to make you aware of it. <b class="IPA">r ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 20:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. DYK has lots of written and unwritten rules to learn. I'll try very hard not to do that again. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:30, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK for 2011 Musselshell River flood
Calmer  Waters  00:03, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Musselshell River
Calmer  Waters  00:03, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Beautiful, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:44, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gerda!BarkingMoon (talk) 10:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The picture of the calmer waters succeeded by Nikolaikirche for BWV 75, better late than never, will have to think about Trinity III next. Latest baby, intentionally premature, for discussion: Messiah structure, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

talk soon
Hey there BM. I'll get back to you (and others) later today. I want to draft something up, but I want to coordinate what everyone feel comfortable with releasing too. Cheers and best. — Ched : ?  12:17, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * okBarkingMoon (talk)

DYK for Soldiers Chapel
Calmer  Waters  16:07, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice day today, Amen. (I would refuse to salute the flag, smile.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:08, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea, actually I wrote Soldiers Chapel before the Musselshell articles. We did our July 4 celebrating last night, mostly. BarkingMoon (talk) 16:10, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As I wrote BWV 75 (for 26 June) before BWV 10 (for 2 July). BWV 135 just nominated, time to celebrate, our National Holiday is 3 October, always celebrated with a choral concert, this year Die Schöpfung. But Messiah's first, s.a., --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

The latest finch
Teach me English, please, plural-singular, I stumbled over "Males defend their female's ..." (sounds like several males share one female, but that may be German) and "They often feed in small flocks. Its call is a buzz-sounding "chew"." Buzz, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * it could be read that way too. I'll change it to "A male will defend its female mate....". Buzz-as in a whiring saw sound or a bumblebee sound. BarkingMoon (talk) 21:53, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, wasn't clear enough, still pl-s: They (feed) ... Its (call), - had to read that twice, but nice reading, the article, I mean! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:02, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Feed in this sense is "to eat" as in fressen. Call, the sound a bird makes. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:12, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Difficult language, smile, why is it "They" one sentence, "Its" the next? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Frau Gerda: Let me remind you English is a GERMANIC language (from your homeland). The Angle and Saxons were Germanic tribes. Perhaps its hard because England kept getting invaded by uncountable groups over the centuries. Or perhaps because I need to tweak it ;-) But here, you've lost me, which sentences are you talking about exactly? BarkingMoon (talk) 22:21, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Where we started here (s.a.), end of the article: "They often feed in small flocks. Its call is a buzz-sounding "chew". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed. BarkingMoon (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Buzz, s.a., --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:40, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know what s.a means. BarkingMoon (talk) 09:48, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * See above. (I mean "see above", so don't look above.) Is there a proper abbreviation for "see above" and "see below"? - Our churches were nicely visited, in spite of the Holiday. Did you follow my little experiment to not have Bach cantata linked in the hook this time? If it's linked it gets 20% of the hits of the article, if not 10%. The reduction is even sharper considering that it gets half of those 10% on a normal day without exposure on the Main page. Plus it makes much more sense to read on an individual cantata if you know a bit on the background. (So please link if you happen to take an unlinked one to prep, smile.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Referencing problem for DYK nomination of Gómez FIXED
I fixed the attribution problem with the Gómez nomination. Can you take a look at Juan Gualberto Gómez again? Thanks so much, NickDupree (talk) 05:34, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Good riddance and goodbye
so long BarkingMoon (talk) 23:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Bullocks. You have my sympathies, regardless of circumstances. Calmer   Waters  00:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Blocked
I've done as you asked Barking, and blocked you. If you EVER change your mind, feel free to ask me to unblock. I am so sorry for the people here that treated you as they did. I wish you all the very best.

Cheers buddy, and keep in touch please. — Ched : ?  00:43, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

PS You can still post here at your talk page in case you want to request an unblock


 * Note to any administrator. If this account ever requests an unblock, please by all means unblock immediately.  This block was ONLY issued because the user requested that I do it. (in email)
 * I am sorry you decided to hang up your hat, BarkingMoon. I wish you would come back and keep doing all the good stuff you have been doing at DYK. The fact is, this is a great encyclopedia that anybody can edit. As a result, we have some abrasive editors. We will always have some abrasive editors, so I hope you decide to ignore them and then come back. Heck, I'm abrasive, but I can't help it, being covered with sharkskin.    Sharktopus  <sup style="color:black;">talk  01:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Die Himmel erzählen die Ehre Gottes, thank you for being part of that, wish you would keep doing it here! My last word was smile, s.a. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Before anyone considers unblocking, do check out. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 23:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Gray-crowned Rosy Finch
Calmer  Waters  00:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * BarkingMoon, when I saw you left us I felt like screaming. (The fact was ... that Martin Luther's chorale Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir (From deep affliction I cry out to you) was sung at his own funeral?)
 * I reflected rejected and goodwill, and start here to change the place, to make you consider to return. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Come back!
Come back! We need you! Your contributions were invaluable!♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:15, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations on reaching WP:GA status on your article

 * On a personal note I'd just like to say that I hope you are doing well. I wish you were still around, and I miss your contributions here.  I really enjoyed working with you.  To be honest, the work that I and PumpkinSky did with this was our way to try to honor you.  Gerda Arendt quickly jumped in and worked on it as well. — Ched :  ?  14:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On a personal note, I sent "despised and rejected" to the archive and started 2012 with a Te Deum, Herr Gott, dich loben wir, BWV 16. Will you join me? I did not archive your encouragement to write for a long time, because that is still valid and keeps me going, thank you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you know: don't let them tell you what to do, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Quite amusing given that this account and PumpkinSky most likely are the same person. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 23:07, 4 February 2012 (UTC)