User talk:Barneygumble

Welcome
Hello , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;. Four tildes (&#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! thanks for telling me how to sign the name. I couldn't figure it out from the talk pages Barneygumble 18:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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Sure! If you need anything else, feel free to ask me on my talk page! You (Talk) 18:21, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on my talk page
You've raised a lot of interesting questions about Islam, and about the differences between Meccan and Medinan suras. I'm not sure I agree with your interperetations, and I don't think I'm the best person to answer your questions. You might want to talk to the imam at a local masjid.

Thanks again for writing, and I hope we can work together on future articles. BrandonYusufToropov 17:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Taunting Users
Please refrain from taunting other users and giving them condescending lessons about their political beliefs. This is rude, and can be regarded as a personal attack (see WP:NPA). Thank you. Rama 13:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Islam
I saw you voted to add the Ali Sina link to the Islam page saying that the Roman Catholic Church article has much criticism on it so Islam should as well. I would like you to reconsider this for a few reasons. Firstly this issue isn't about criticism. There are many criticisms about traditional Islamic dress for women being restrictive by modern standards, traditional Islamic gay rights, even modern approaches to apostasy law -- these are all understandable issues. The thing is that Ali Sina and faith freedom are not credible sources for criticism. They are not sociologists with a scholarly view on this they are the type that call Muslims animals by defining Islam as they see it and hating their creation. They also generalize about Islam which is harder to do with the Roman Catholic Church since its doctrine is defined unlike Islamic doctrine. If you want criticism that is fine, I am for criticism with brief responses to it like the Roman Catholic article has, however, Ali Sina is not encyclopedic level criticism and we should not lower ourselves to sources of that nature. Thanks for your time. gren 05:52, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

CfD
Take a look, this is the latest trick to deny facts and censor truth Categories_for_deletion nobs 16:25, 5 August 2005 (UTC) Thanks! There's a lot of tricks these people pull. Barneygumble 17:28, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


 * yeah good job, you have to be on the look out for soviet spies, they are everywhere, especially since the fall of the soviet union a decade and a half ago, they figured we'd let our guard down, allowing them to attack our wikipidea, good catch, if we didn't have people like you watching out for us, the free wrold might fall to a non existant country, know what they say?! first they take your wiki, then they take berlin!!!! - (unsigned answer by 172.128.124.231)


 * Right, just because the Soviet Union collapsed, that means that everyone who holds their goals highly just suddenly disappeared. Only posters older than 14, realize that "these people" refer to sympathic wiki users, not Soviets. Obviously "the latest trick" didn't refer to the Soviet Union either. Barneygumble 20:26, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


 * uh huh, wiki users sympathetic to??? if they're subversives they must be trying to subvert thr country for someone? I know, they're probably canadian spies!!! quickly, have them drawn and quatered you walking stereotype of a cold war 'hardliner'- (unsigned answer by 172.128.124.231)
 * It has nothing to do with spies, genius. It has to do with people deleting pages chronicling Soviet Spies because they are communist sympathizers and seek a eliminate or dumb-down and information that might be critical of their beloved system. Barneygumble 21:00, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I suggest you go get McCarthy, he'll get those damn commie sympathizers off our wiki! We can't have people sympathize with non-existant countries!!That'll be the end of us all! don't ever let the lack of communists stop your fight against the red menace!!!- (unsigned answer by 172.128.124.231)


 * Why don't you stay out of other people's discussions? Besides, you are a sock puppet. Your have only "started" posting today, yet you know way too much about wikipedia and the "lingo" to be brand new. Goodbye. Barneygumble 21:55, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I have an external modem genius, my ip rotates every few hours, and with it, my edit history, there are a zillion other 172.x.x.x who all have the same thing happen to them too- (unsigned answer by 172.128.124.231 /172.149.94.2)

Mediation
Both parties have now agreed to enter into the mediation process. Please suspend editing of Human Rights in the United States for a day or so to allow me to review your positions. Most of the early mediation will take place through e-mail.Please send me an e-mail by going to my user page and using the e-mail this user option on the sidebar. In the e-mail please include a brief stament of your postion; the other side will never see it so please be open about how you are willing to compromise and your grievances with the other party, and what you are willing to do and would like to see them do to better work together. The public nature of wikipedia often makes users more guarded about what they post, by using e-mails you will be gaining the ability to speak candidly abut your problem without fear of reprisal.

All of these e-mails are confidential; please do not share e-mails with others or post them in thier entirity or in excerpts on wikipedia. I may make suggestions from time to time, to see what is or is not possible please do not assume that these suggestions reflect the other sides position&mdash;I am not an emissary&mdash;we are merely temporarily shifting communication to a medium where mistakes may be intercepted or at least not be part of a permanent record. Thanks. -JCarriker 00:21, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

NPOV hard to find on Wikipedia
Hey Barneygumble. I agree with you. It seems a lot of editors have trouble grasping that Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine. A case in point is the edit war now taking place over the Eustace Mullins article. Amalekite 11:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I have confidence is non-political or non-religious items, but go to islamic terrorism or human rights in the united states and there is tons of propaganda.


 * I know, but it shouldn't be too hard to remove barneygumble's propaganda--152.163.100.138 15:17, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Images
Please add some source and license to: --Saperaud 19:35, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Image:Diamond-parts.jpg
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 * Image:Diamond-shape-popular.gif

CfD
Barney: there's an attack on the Venona sourcing again. Thanks. Categories for deletion. Thanks. nobs 01:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your help at Category:Soviet spies. When are you gonna run for Admin? nobs 18:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What is involved with being an admin and how do you run? Barneygumble 14:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Stanley Williams
I respect your opinion and understand how emotive this area can be, we are dealing with murder and nothing insights more repulsion in most of us than the killing of a defenceless person. I will try to answer the points you have rightly raised and be as honest as I can. I don’t expect you to see things in the same way as me as we all have different life experiences and that is what ultimately informs us.

''The Cycle of Violence? That suggests that if Tookie's death sentence was communed, the crime rate would go down.''

Well in a sense, ‘yes’. I have seen what Stanley Williams writing and campaigning can do first hand, and that does indeed include moving young people away from violence. So in a sense I do believe that he can help, as far as one man alone can, to reduce violent crime and gang conformity.

''It also suggests that the cause of crime in the first place was other people getting punished. Has stopping the death penalty stopped violence in Europe? Hardly.''

Well, as you know violent crime is caused by a range of factors key among these in my eyes would be poverty. Beyond this I think it would probably be cultural beliefs, which often also stem from poverty, such as a desire for status and empowerment (as Stanley Williams himself attests). When a culture believes violence is the solution to problems, this expresses itself on many levels both within government and wider society. Take street crime, gun culture, war and violent entertainment, these factors are a part of many cultures of course including my own but within American culture they seem, from the perspective of most I know in Europe, to be exaggerated. The death penalty just seems to be another area where many in the US ignore international law and moves away from violence. The opinion I was trying to express in my last post is that I believe we need to set a standard away from violence, a standard that puts human life first, even it we believe that person has done wrong, we take a stand to be better than revenge killers. At the same time as ending the death penalty I would like to see better social/cultural education, resources put towards tackling poverty and the restriction of weapons. It’s going to be a long road but it is one I feel the whole world must take. In Britain crime has not gone down, it has grown as the population has grown but most of Europe is very safe and far less violent than the United States, the restriction of guns I believe is an important factor in this at least in the UK. In fact the only countries that are more violent than the US are countries with extreme poverty.


 * The roots of crime cannot be strictly attributed to poverty. There are many poor people that are not criminals and many rich ones that are (i.e. Enron). The increased desire for power, status, and material wealth coincides with the decrease in religion in the West. The restriction of weapons will never prevent crime. If guns are made illegal, gun crimes still happen. Britian is a good example and they are an island. Criminals would then know that the population is defenseless. Even if you were somehow to eliminate guns altogether, physical strength would become powermount, leaving women and old men defenseless. A gun is a great equalizer. When I was in the UK and was asked about guns, I asked people where they would rather rob a house, the UK or Texas. Everyone responded the UK. However, a gun is a great responsibility and people need to train and respect guns.

''What about the families of the loved ones that were killed? Tookie is asking for mercy that he did not show his victims.''

Well I cannot speak for the victim’s families, but I can say that in my own humble experience, there was a member of my family who was murdered in the 1960’s when capital punishment was legal in the UK. The man responsible panicked and tried to get rid of her body, if he hadn’t he probably would have got off with manslaughter. Instead he was hung. I don’t think anyone in our family thought this was the right thing, he acted out of fear not out of gilt, it was an accident. I also counseled a woman this year whose family was murdered, the man who did it killed himself, and all his death did was leave her feeling unresolved. I believe people need to learn to move on with their lives, that is a very difficult thing to do, but harboring hate does not help.

Because Stanley Williams did wrong does not mean we must, I do believe in mercy, I don’t believe in an eye for an eye. I believe as Gandhi said, “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”. Or as Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also…"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

I hope that you can at least respect my position by thinking about what I have said. - Solar 17:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Also read the District Attorney's response to the clemency appeal. http://da.co.la.ca.us/pdf/swilliams.pdf. One thing that bothers me is that he hasn't really rejected the Crips (see Ed Bradley interview on 60 minutes), nor has he ever admitted to the killings. However, those two facts don't sit well together. If he really hadn't committed the crimes and was repentant, he would give the cops all he could on the Crips. If he did commit the crime, and hasn't apologized, why should any mercy be shown? Barneygumble 17:48, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A final question and a most pertinent one if i am to gauge your intents: Do you support abortion? Barneygumble 17:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank-you for your comments, while I am all for the exchange of ideas I feel that you have not engaged with what I have said and are interested only in arguing, this is something I have no interest in doing. I have made my points in the spirit of exchange and in defence of Stanley Williams life; I feel that judging by your strong belief in violence there is little benefit to either of us in continuing. - Solar 17:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I have engaged in discussion with you although I have not agree with your positions. I don't have a strong belief in violence, but believe capital punishment is justified in henious crimes. Finally, you ignored my abortion question which leads me to believe that you support it. So how can someone who adamently opposes capital punishment, favour abortion? I can dutifully respect your opinion if the attitude of non-violence is equally applied to the unborn. Is the reverse true for me? Yes, to a degree, but the difference is, is that the unborn are innocent and have not committed any crime, as opposed to Mr. Williams. Barneygumble 22:05, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I do not personally support abortion. I do however understand that it is a very complex issue and involves the rights of the mother also. This aspect is especially important in the case of women with little access to medication or where the mother’s life is at risk. I also do not personally support the killing of animals for food or sport (see here). With all these issues I believe that social and democratic solutions must be worked towards. Essentially my views are that the protection and sanctity of all life is paramount, but obviously at this point in time we are all forced to work within the grey areas in which ideals are far in the distance. This will be my final comment I now need to focus my energy on other areas, thanks for sharing your ideas. - Solar 00:06, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Jessica Simpson
Hi,I noticed you reverted some vandalism on Jessica Simpson earlier. Thanks. I'm not sure exactly how you approached it though because you accidentally left some in place which wasn't noticed for a little while longer, so I though I'd point out WP:REVERT to you, just in case you weren't aware. Thanks again --pgk( talk ) 17:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I must have missed some. Barneygumble 20:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Magic Flute
I said I didn't want to move Cosí Fan Tutte. I don't want to move Traviata or Bohême either. Please consider this case by itself. Septentrionalis 20:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

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Margaret Hoover
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