User talk:Barryob/Archive 4

Commonwealth realm monarchies
I found Tharky's comment of Elizabeth II having a representative in Scotland as a pro-English view. GoodDay (talk) 00:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

UK coat of arms
Hey Barryob,

Sorry I forgot about the "cut and paste" move rule, so I put in a request at WP:RM. I also put down my rationale on Talk:Coat of arms of the United Kingdom. Thanks. Happy Holidays.

Lovelac 7 13:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

RfA thanks
Just wanted to say thanks for supporting me! Please find your thank you card here, should you wish to see it. I'm honored to have received your support. All the best, ~ Eliz 81 (C)  23:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:British Ambassador Ensign.svg
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Monarchy articles
Barryob, perhaps I'm missing something here, but the poll on moving/renaming these hasn't concluded, and no real decision has been reached on what to do with them. Why, then, are you moving them all except for the UK one? --G2bambino (talk) 03:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The Poll has closed, IMHO all those articles should be moved to Monarchy of X. However, TharkunColl is resisting. See discussion at this place. GoodDay (talk) 18:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The articles have been moved to Monarchy of X, though Tharky still disagrees, he's promised to accept the changes and not cause 'edit wars'. GoodDay (talk) 20:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Revert of United Kingdom article edit
Hi there can I ask why you undid my edits on United Kingdom? Davidkinnen (talk) 20:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the Lord Speaker and Speaker of the HoC are not part of the government. -- Barryob  (Contribs)   (Talk)  21:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

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Scottish Government
See my comments at Talk:Scottish Government about Directorates and former Departments --George Burgess 20:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Image:Flag of the Governor of Northern Ireland.svg
I am in awe of your ability to create images like that. My skill ends with drawing boxes in paint.

However, I thought that Governor's flags prior to 1998/9 didn't have the gold ring behind the garland. And the proportions of disc size to the flag changed at the same time. *I think* Biofoundationsoflanguage (talk) 13:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Info about the flag is sketchy, but it is nost likley it would have followed the same designs as the pre 1999 flags I have updated the disk -- Barryob  (Contribs)   (Talk)  21:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Seeing as the flag ceased to be used from 1972/3, it would hardly have been updated as it was defunct at that stage.--Padraig (talk) 22:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

France
Come on, France IS a relatively successful country. I'm not insinuating anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drdoom6413 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Sock puppets
Hello,

I came across an old dispute involving yourself this evening. I'm not condoning eitherside as such, but can I give some feedback regarding this? - This isn't a case of sock puppetry, but a user merely editting according to the IP address his provider gives him/her. It's called Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol, and it's (usually) out of the control of the user.

I've also been on the recieving end of dealing with vandalism and distruptive behaviour from one of these kind of users, but if you take it to an admin that they are a sock puppet, the case it likely to be thrown out. Instead it's better to use a sandbox page and catalogue the user's list of IPs and (if need be) organise a range block. Hope that helps, -- Jza84 · (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The user has a history of disruptive edits and personal attacks but since the user has umpteen IP address its almost impossible to stop them, but thanks anyway. -- Barryob  (Contribs)   (Talk)  22:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. east. 718 at 15:00, January 5, 2008

Europe topic
Hello Barryob,

Yes, there is. Later, I will add more parameters to Europe topic allowing to change specifically targets of some links to bypass some redirects (for example: constitution of Germany). Moreover, generally, I don't think it's a good idea to use navboxes with parameter directly in articles. For example, United States topic is never directly transcluded in articles, it's kind of "meta-template". I think all the continent/region-topic templates should be used the same way. 16@r (talk) 12:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

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My Rfa
My effort to regain adminship was unsuccessful, and I'll do what I can to ensure your opinion of my suitability for adminship improves. Thank you for taking some time out of your day to voice your opinion.--MONGO 19:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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European Parliament constituencies
Barryob, hi! I noticed your comment on Template talk:Infobox_European_Parliament_constituency. I note the following:


 * Template:European Parliament constituency infobox has a non-standard name, is not categorized, and is difficult to find.
 * Template:European Parliament constituency infobox can't cope with constituencies the same size as the member state (eg Sweden, Finland, Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, and so on), nor with constituencies that aren't in the member state (eg Greenland/Denmark, and French Overseas Territories/France).
 * Template:European Parliament constituency infobox is only used on 2 constituencies, wheras Template:Infobox_European_Parliament_constituency is used on (approx) 204 constituencies.

Given this, it would be far simpler if Template:European Parliament constituency infobox was replaced with Template:Infobox_European_Parliament_constituency.

On a separate note, we're using the beautiful maps that User:David_Liuzzo has done of the member state constituencies (see Image:EU_location_AUT.png for an example). We're thinking of getting him to draw up some new ones for the member states with subdivided constituencies (France/Ireland/Italy/Poland/UK). Would you like that?

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 23:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick reply. You're right about the pre-99 UK constituencies making it difficult to map, although User:DoctorBuk is plowing his way thru them specifying which national parliamentary constituencies they were made up of (I think there were >140 of them, so it'll take months), so of minimum we'll be able to assemble something from the maps of the national constituencies, if they exist (I can never remember which is the smallest currently-extant constituency, Malta or the German-speaking electoral college in Belgium). As for the Source(s) being moved to the "References", you are of course correct, but don't take the parameter out just yet: the parameter is optional and the sources can be moved down gradually over the coming months. I'll ask David to originate a map for the constituencies of Poland, see what appears. Thanks for the help, kind regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 00:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message on your talk page. If you can achieve it using Image:Europe98.svg, then good luck to you. I don't have the facilities to edit a svg file (i don't have access to my own PC and so cannot upload Inkscape or other software) and so cannot help, unfortunately. Are you intending to use Image:Europe98.svg for the pre-99 UK constituencies or for the whole EU? If the former, then good luck: if the latter, then can you produce something as good as the Liuzzo ones, and for *all* the constituencies? If you can, then please be careful: issues to take cognizance of include a) please don't get the borders of the nations of the former Yugoslavia wrong, they will have changed since 1998, and Slovenia's in the EU now, b) the Ireland constituency borders changed in 2004, c) the current constituency borders are the same as NUTS divisions which are copyright Eurostat, so make sure you have a PD route for the borders you use (there is a European Environmental Agency loophole - I looked into this in November and the discussion is here). However I am very pleased you seem to have found an equidistant cylindrical projection: David uses Mercator projection (which makes Mediterranean countries look smaller than they are, which will be a real bone of contention if/when Turkey joins), and Eurostat works to a projection standard called ETRS89 (in most cases it's Lambert Azimuthal), which is very difficult to work with. Equidistant cylindrical preserves north-south, east-west and area, so if Image:Europe98.svg is that projection, perfect. Make sure you don't have Kaliningrad or Switzerland or Norway as part of the EU (EU membership is the third rail of Norwegian politics: Norway has had two referenda and one Government resignation on the subject). Best of luck, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 21:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, hush my mouth...if you can produce maps like Image:Scottish_Parliament_election_2007_map.svg, then go right ahead (I know how difficult it is to produce maps of Scotland...me and User:SFC9394 worked on the location map 'til our eyes popped - see this and this). If you are that good, then it may be a good idea to produce an equidistant cylindrical map (or a stretched equidistant cylindrical map: not a Mercator or other projection, they don't work) - then it can actually be used in to produce an actual EU location map, which would mean you wouldn't have to produce several different versions: we could just adjoin it to Template:location map and get the little red dot automatically generated (like Template:Location map Scotland does). Woo... As for coloration, you may want to look at this or this. Don't put numbers of MEPs on the maps, since a) the numbers of MEPs aren't yet decided, and b) in the case of Poland, the number of MEPs for each constituency isn't decided until after the election (the more people vote in a Polish constituency, the more MEPs it gets). I'll leave you to proceed, since I have to finish the Groups: try finding the logo for a Group which hasn't existed since 1989 - aaargh!. Welcome to European politics...it's a whole new world of pain. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 02:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your message on my talk page about Image:EP_constituency.svg. Here is my response


 * THINGS INCLUDED THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED
 * Austria: correct
 * Belgium (all 3): correct (well done!)
 * Bulgaria: correct
 * Czech Republic: correct
 * Cyprus: correct
 * Denmark: correct
 * Estonia: correct
 * Finland: correct
 * France (7 internal): correct
 * Germany: correct
 * Greece: correct
 * Hungary: correct
 * Italy (all 5): correct
 * Latvia: correct
 * Lithuania: correct
 * Luxembourg: correct
 * Malta: correct
 * Netherlands: correct
 * Portugal: correct
 * Romania: correct
 * Slovakia: correct
 * Slovenia: correct
 * Spain: correct
 * Sweden: correct
 * UK (all 12): correct


 * THINGS NOT INCLUDED THAT SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDED
 * Kaliningrad: correct
 * Liechtenstein: correct
 * Switzerland: correct
 * Norway: correct
 * Other nations of the former Yugoslavia: correct


 * THINGS INCLUDED THAT SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDED
 * Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Andorra are not in/fully in the EU and are not part of the EP constituencies. But that's being really picky of me!


 * PROJECTION
 * Difficult to tell, but it looks like equidistant cylindrical, so correct.


 * STILL TO DO:
 * Ireland: still to do. You've got Connacht-Ulster and Munster in, but they were replaced by North-West and South in 2004 (see North-West (European Parliament constituency) and South (European Parliament constituency)). But you know that already.
 * Poland (all 13): still to do


 * THINGS THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE
 * It's difficult to know how to depict outlying regions like the French overseas territories or the Canaries. You could adopt the approach used by Eurostat (see here or here or here or ) and move them to the right hand side, but that would defeat the object of having a map that could be used with Template:location map. My advise would be to omit them and include a phrase like "certain areas such as Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, etc. not depicted".


 * CONCLUSION
 * You have rattled off in a few days what I've been trying to do for months (this was the closest I got!), so I do have to say at this point "very well done".


 * SUMMARY
 * Wow! Cool map! Yay!


 * Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 02:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message on my talk page. I note with much pleasure your updated map Image:EP constituency.svg. I am very impressed: it is a lovely piece of work. I have two points as follows:
 * The Ireland constituencies changes in 2004: Connacht-Ulster and Munster were replaced with North West and South and County Clare changed constituencies. You still have the pre-2004 boundaries in: you've got Ireland looking like this when it now looks like this.
 * I'll start work on integrating your map with Template:location map preparatory to a new infobox. I think the boundaries of your map are:
 * Left-hand-side: 10 decimal 2 degrees West
 * Right-hand-side: 34 decimal 6 degrees East
 * Top: 69 decimal 9 degrees North
 * Bottom: 34 decimal 8 degrees North
 * (or perhaps more realistically, 10 degrees West to 35 degrees East, 35 degrees North to 70 degrees North). Can you confirm these numbers?
 * Thank you again for your hard work, regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 00:24, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It's OK, it is equidistant cylindrical: I checked. It works as a location map quite nicely: see User:Anameofmyveryown/Sandbox4 for initial experiments. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 02:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message on my talk page. The question of map coloration is vexatious: whichever ones you use, somebody will object (and if you change the colors, then somebody else will object to the new ones, and so on ad infinitum). I'm relaxed about the pink and frankly I don't want to put you to more work after the effort you've already put in. If anybody objects, you may wish to use standard colors as per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Maps (if that is a standard), but there no immediate need to do so until then. As ever, thank you for your time and effort, regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 03:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Map of irish consituencies
Hello,

I am currently trying to create an interractive map for the Campaign Against the EU Consitution website (caeuc.org) and am looking for a vector image of the consistuency map of the republic of Ireland. Were you working from one of those when you created the wikipedia maps ? If so, or if you know where to find one, would it be possible for you to share it with us ?

Thank you for your time,

Yann Morvan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.33.74 (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Greater glasgow logo.gif
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Thanks!
- I've not been in Scotland since devolution (well just once for the tatoo). It shows I know. I thought it about time that we get a lowland place upto GA. Might go for FA with it, if just for the feedback. Thanks again, -- Jza84 · (talk) 23:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Am I right in thinking you're from the Glasgow area? I just wondered if you felt we could use this, this or this on Wikipedia? They have each licencing that is compatable with WikiCommons. There are many others too. I'm thinking perhaps something as a static image for the infobox? :) -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Memphis redirect
Hello Barryob, you have recently edited the Memphis redirect page and changed the redirect from Memphis, Tennessee to Memphis (disambiguation). There is an active discussion going on about just that question. Your input there is greatly appreciated --> Memphis, Tennessee redirect doxTxob \ talk 22:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Scotland
The addition of 'nation' and/or 'country' in the lead, is prooving to be a political lightning rod. Plus, it would effect the United Kingdom article's lead. We should accept constituent country as the most neutral phrase. The Scottish people are a nation, not Scotland (unless somebody can proove, Scotland is independant). GoodDay (talk) 22:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I haven't got any sources to save my life, let alone a source for Scotland is a constituent country. Oh no! now what am I going to do about Canada, it's described as a 'country'. GoodDay (talk) 22:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

If ever there was a country that existed simultaneously as a country & four countries? The UK apparently fits the description. GoodDay (talk) 23:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually I do think this is quite fair. The movement is seperatist by nature (it's rather odd to deny it, though don't have strong feelings to include it, I thought I was helping). It also didn't make clear that the movement is one that intends to secede from the UK (as opposed to "split from England" which is the common misconception).


 * I don't think it's bad faith, which you seem to be implying. Do you think it is? Do you think it was obstructive overtly British-nationalism that ignores facts and verification? Do you think I show signs of being a problematic pov editor? -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well on reflection I could have discussed the change on the talk page, but as I say, it is a seperatist movement, and Wikipedia is not censored. What's done is done however. If it's been removed by consensus then I don't see what the problem is, nor do I think it's a reflection of my work. Do you?


 * You say I show signs of being far from neutral. You've provided one diff which I think I've talked about where I was coming from. Do you have any other evidence that I'm not editting in a neutral way? Do you think I'm a "British nationalist" and compromising article space? Do you think I ever raise a good point or am ever incivil towards those with an alternative point of view to myself? -- Jza84 · (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, you didn't answer most of my questions, and I get the impression that you want conflict between us. Do you? I do not. If you do, why so? Why do you think I'm a "British nationalist"? Do you think that me being a "British nationalist" is problematic? If you don't, then why bring it up? What do you mean by a "British nationalist"? Do you believe that you understand fully why I might have some concerns? Have you seen all the actions and behavours that I have? If not, why not ask?


 * Do you feel that my points with User:GoodDay were about you specifically? If so, what gives you that impression? Do you think you're contribution history consists of removal and downplaying of the UK? If not, then why do you feel the need to "muscle in" with an ancient diff? Do you believe you are a good editor who edits without bias? Do you engage with those with an alternative point of view? Do you think there is systemic bias taking place in and around "Scottish articles"? Do you think WP:SCOTLAND is a friendly community?


 * What or whos' definition of "nation" are you alluding to? Do you think your sources reflect the overwhelming catelogue of literature on the subject? What do international bodies say? How do other encyclopedias approach the issue? Are the Scottish people a nation? Why are the Nation of Islam called by this name? Do you think those who have objections to the term are biased and don't want the best out of the article? Do you think it's a co-incidence that the "vocal" members of WP:SCOTLAND are aligned to the same point of view?


 * Alot of questions I know, and granted some of them rhetorical but I'd like to know where you're coming from, rather than make an accusation/counter-accusation. I want to understand your motivation(s) using a little exploration and critical thinking here too. If you don't want to answer, you don't have to, but I would ask that you reflect on some of my queries, as there are several that I don't think you've considered in full prior to your last message. I want to be absolutely honest though, I do feel a little persecuted by you. Should I feel this way? -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think you are part of a/the Scottish maffia, categorically . I have faced hostility from several members of WP:SCOTLAND and you're not one of them, and I do take that into consideration. I do think you're unnecessarily cautious of me however, and, like all members of that project, don't seem to care or intervene a great deal when those who are not nationalists are slurred, offended or otherwise made to feel totally unwelcome on "Scottish territory". I do think there is evidence of tactical editing (and I think you'd agree, albeit reluctantly) and an editting community that is lead by a minority of experienced individuals who discourage many people away from Wikipedia. For its huge membership, WP:SCOTLAND's lack of overall progress demonstrates to me that it is not in the business of developing articles, but acting as a "Tartan curtain" (please excuse me!) to push a certain political topic in a certain way.


 * This all said, how do we take things forwards from here? Do you feel aggrevied by any of my comments or actions? If so, I apologise. -- Jza84 · (talk) 22:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)