User talk:Baseball Bugs/Archive008

JUN 2009 - AUG 2009

You are seldom right when you guess what I'm thinking
Actually, I don't see anyone as a victim here. DT sure as hell made his own bed, and he's lying in it. I'm just saying we don't have to leave the blinds up in the room, as well, and make him a permanent example. I do appreciate the "Quick, close this thread so I have the last word." Good work. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It's just that his not being a victim doesn't mean we have any warrant to encourage people to play cloak-and-dagger instead of working on the encyclopedia. Y'know? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I was seconding the motion by the other user. And I don't say that you think he's a victim. I say that that's the effective result, if he gets to hide his behavior. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't see that. I don't see someone's victim-hood being an "effective result" of anything. I don't think there's a particular way one has to treat victims differently from others. When I ask what the right thing is to do, I don't even begin to wonder if someone is a victim or not. That seems singularly irrelevant. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the more I think about it... the idea of "victimhood" is absolutely an abstract moral determination. It cannot be an "effective" result of anything, except in some observer's moral framework. That's subjective, so unless you're willing to assert that your moral framework is the universally correct one.... No. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And as for the right thing to do, I say the right thing to do is, in fact, to "leave the blinds up", at least for awhile. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I disagree. I don't see that you've made a case for it. It's to enable non-admins to more effectively do sock forensics? Seriously, that's the advantage? No. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The advantage is to disallow a belligerent user from hiding his behavior. He doesn't get to hide - except by starting over and not getting himself into the kind of trouble he did the first time. In 6 months, consider deleting it. Not now, and certainly not because he wants it just to protect his own bad behavior. It's not just admins that run into bad behavior. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:14, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't see that he gets to hide very well, even with it deleted. Plenty of his contributions are around, all still viewable via the contributions button. Furthermore, I don't see a problem even if he can hide. If he comes back with the same issues - we will recognize him, talk page or no talk page. You know that's true. If he comes back without those issues, then he's welcome back, and we'll never know. That is... unless someone digs around and tries to figure out whether some exiled user is back, being functional, God forbid. Like I said, you've already won, as far as the talk page. If you wish to convince me... your work is cut out for you. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Consensus was to keep the talk page intact. I didn't "win" anything, I merely argued for what I considered to be the appropriate way of handling this situation. Talk pages are often the most revealing of what's really going on with a user, and that's why deleting it benefits the user and is a detriment to wikipedia. And if he comes back with a new attitude, then there will be no reason to "dig around". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. The benefit is that amateur wiki-sleuths get to use the site to play some MMORPG where they're sock-hunters. The disadvantage is that we were just a dick. There was not consensus to leave the talk page intact. There were a few people who came in all at once and insisted on it. That's not consensus. Again, the page is there. My conviction is not. What's that worth to you? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There will be no need for wiki-sleuthing if he comes back with a new attitude. If he doesn't raise any flags, then there's no problem. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Except that we were just dicks to him, just now. I'm not proud of what we just rammed over a lack of consensus. Are you? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He did it to himself. Meanwhile... MMORPG??? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Massively multiplayer online role-playing game. No. Our hands are not tied by his actions - largely because our rules are not laws. We are morally free agents, and we can choose to be magnanimous, or we can choose not to be. We just chose not to be, for a gain that is worth precisely zero. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And obviously I don't agree. He got what he gave. As for the other... I see. I don't do video games and I don't speak text-ease. To me RPG means "Report Program Generator". :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah. We differ as to how much getting it took to balance the giving, I guess. I don't think any of us is in any place to decide or repay what anyone else "deserves". But: De gustibus non est disputandum, or however it goes. I only know about the "MMORPG" because a certain satirical Wiki describes Wikipedia as one of those, where people play at being encyclopedia editors... and cowboys and indians, and deletionists and inclusionists, and wikisleuths, and busy-bodies, and "elves" and "gnomes", and so on and so on. They're sadly accurate. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Friday stated it well, on your page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And I, in my opinion, rebutted him well. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And I say he's got it right, and you continue to be more generous to belligerent users than you need to be. But that's your style, and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that. It follows from my, you know... beliefs about the world, and stuff. I don't believe in the notion of "deserving" anything... anyone. Nonsense. I only believe in making tomorrow better than today, and, uh... yeah. You can connect the dots. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC) I am a bit surprised that anyone finds the forensics angle legitimate. So much more of what he does is viewable through "user contributions" than through his talk page, and we can't delete those. It really is just revenge, and I think it's sad and dishonest to call it anything else. Friday admitted as much - we're giving him what for, because we think he's a jerk. That's actually one of our operating principles. Damn. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's not "revenge", it's getting a better picture of where they're coming from. When they get blocked, their unblock requests and other comments often tell us a great deal, and often more than what mere edits tell us. An unblock request that's civil and calmly reflective tells us one thing. Ranting about how terrible everyone at wikipedia is tells us something else. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah... I still see very, very little (i.e. none) value in enabling that game. As soon as the question is raised, you know they'd be undeleted. The advantage of keeping the talk page visible is vanishingly small, unless I'm to believe that making damn sure they don't come back - not even for a minute! - is somehow important. I see that as a miniscule (ok, zero) gain, for a definite loss in the "heart" column. You care about identifying him easily if he comes back. I don't. Not remotely, not close, not likely in the near future, either. I don't believe that it's hard without the talk page, nor that it needs to be made easier. I don't expect you to see these things the same way I do, or to do anything the same way I do, so there's no need to make a counter argument here, but I will reply if you do, because I'll disagree, for a clear reason that I can articulate. Just sayin'. You up all night? I won't compromise my moral principles in order to not answer an argument directly against them that I see as invalid. Does that make sense? Would you have me do that? -GTBacchus(talk) 05:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC) If you wish this conversation to end, just stop giving me things to disagree with. Say something subjective, like, "it takes all kinds", and I'll screw off, already.
 * I don't care about identifying him if he comes back, but only if he resumes the same behavior. If he behaves himself, I don't care about identifying him. My talk page is open to all who have anything to say in a reasonably civil manner. You initiated this section, and you can stop or not stop, as you see fit. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Stop or not as I see fit, that sounds great! If he comes back... we'll know. As things are, we'll know that much sooner! Have a good night, brave knight. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC) No weird meaning there, just a purposeless homophone. Best kind.

Over, I trust
All the ANIs, WQA, CUs, RFC/Us and RFARs are over, I trust. I sincerely thank you for voicing your position on the RFC/U on me. I did not canvass anyone, and in order to avoid any claims that I canvassd, I waited until now (the request to reopen the RFC/U seems dead). Again, many thanks! Collect (talk) 12:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't do much. I was advised by a wise colleague here that keeping a low profile on this thing was probably the best plan, and to let the storms pass. That's how it seems to have worked out. What a nuisance. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Papelbon
He has to be one of the most entertaining one-inning pitchers ever. Given a 5-1 lead, and thus no chance for a save, the best thing to do for him was to pitch single, single, single, followed by K, K, K, and keep us all watching. PhGustaf (talk) 17:39, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:BoshamerRF.jpg
File:BoshamerRF.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:BoshamerRF.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 12:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

3rd person comment
Would you come over to Wikiquette alerts and give your frank opinion on this? FYI, you might find an anon IP and a registered user both ranting on and on about some civility issue, maybe you could help us by giving another view as an unrelated party? --Dave1185 (talk) 11:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Boy oh boy oh boy... trolls, they come in all shapes and sizes. And if they think of what I've just said as an insult then so be it. Read WP:DENY... HA~! Toodles... Dave1185 (talk) 13:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Hawaii Five-O
I do not know what to do about WilliamJE on the Hawaii Five-O article regarding that guest star list... any ideas? Nicholasm79 (talk) 05:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Caution
'''Please refrain from making unconstructive edits. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox.''' This is only a test. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Download videos from Youtube
I just noticed this comment and was surprised that nobody mentioned this. It's not the only but that one does work well. Cheers. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 03:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Useful for someone who has Firefox. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Or IE but I've never tried that. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 14:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:BoshamerSteinbrenner.JPG
Thank you for uploading File:BoshamerSteinbrenner.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Stifle (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

File:BoshamerSteinbrenner.JPG
I forgot to put PD-self on there, although I filled out the self-created template. Do you even bother looking at what you're tagging? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I looked at it; no, you didn't put a license tag on it. Nothing in your upload said it was PD or specified a license, so I tagged it so that you'd fix it. Stifle (talk) 16:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeh, a friendly threat to delete it. When you upload, it gives you the template that says you created it yourself. It should also include the PD-self to avoid getting this kind of hassle. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily; not everyone wants to release their images into the public domain. But all's well that ends well here. Stifle (talk) 17:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't have ended so well if I was away for a few days and it got zapped. I could have re-uploaded it, obviously, but the upload template is flawed. You think you're done, but you're not done, and then some vulture jumps on it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I went back to the upload page to see, and although it talks about licenses, it's not very good about explaining precisely what to do, such as PD-self. I only know to do that from experience. If I were a new user, I would be perplexed, especially at getting that threatening message. Then I would have to go to your page and ask for an explanation, and you would explain about PD-self. That does not strike me as a very efficient process. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, item #4 at Special:Upload says "Provide copyright information for the upload, either from the dropdown menu or from the lists at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags". I guess we could put that in 32pt font, red, and blinking...? (-: Stifle (talk) 18:45, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and you'd have had seven days plus the deletion backlog (currently three days). Stifle (talk) 18:45, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not the link that appears when you click "Upload", it's this one: Upload. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but if you click "own work", you end up at a page which also says you have to release your work under a free license. Perhaps I can try to amend that text to make it clearer that you have to choose something from the dropdown. Stifle (talk) 19:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Bugs
NOTE: This refers to. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You know, I do appreciate your comment there, but it does betray that you didn't read the situation before commenting. This is just a heads-up that your critique will be more helpful if it's based on something that has actually happened. I wish he had asked me to stop posting to his talk page a while back, but instead he kept leaving invitations to continue. He certainly acted a lot like someone who's trying to have a conversation, typing a lot of words, and replying point-by-point. If you want someone to go away, that's a terrible way to make it happen. It's easy to end a conversation. You just don't reply. You know that; I've seen you do it. You're always welcome to post relevant or helpful messages on my talk page. Simple wise-cracks about what's going on will be consigned to "Peanut Gallery" subsections, and might get on my nerves, but you already know that. I have noticed that you also say quite helpful, clear and logical things, regularly. Those are always welcome. We just don't share much in the way of sense of humor, it would seem. That's too bad. -GTBacchus(talk) 17:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Some folks just want to get the last word in. Not I, though, certainly. 0:) Even if someone doesn't overtly say, "I don't want to talk anymore", it's possible to read between the lines or get the hint. But once they do say it, then it's over. My philosophy: NEVER apologize. Unless you make a factual error; if you're dead wrong about something, an apology can be in order. But don't apologize for "hurt feelings" or any of that kind of touchy-feely stuff, because you're essentially apologizing for being who you are, which is futile. Just let some time pass, and try to do better the next time. Actions speak much louder than words, and there's always the chance to improve relations over time, because most folks are reasonable. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah.... specific invitations to continue talking, requesting specific input, are difficult to take as requests to go away. When you say "try to do better next time" - rest assured, I will. Have you noticed that I care a lot about communicating clearly? However, it's still not clear what I actually did wrong. I was hoping that someone at WQA would help me see that, but no luck so far. Once Roux actually told me to get off his talk page, I did. Immediately. So I don't see how that criticism is relevant. Do you see something that I did wrong, that I could do better? What? Why not help me learn? All I've learned so far is "we don't care, we won't comment on the situation, drop it". Apparently, I'm the asshole here, but nobody will show me why. Generalities about not apologizing are interesting enough, but they don't tell me how to communicate better. Did you actually read the conversation, and can you tell me what I did wrong? Was I actually the asshole that he says I was? If so, I want to know it, so I can stop. I would quite sincerely like to learn something, but all I've gotten so far are comments that make it clear those commenting haven't read the situation. That's frustrating, a bit. -GTBacchus(talk) 18:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll get back. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hah! Now I have the last word! Half  Shadow  19:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be too sure of that. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aw shit... Half  Shadow  19:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now who can argue with that? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've waded through a fair amount of the discussion at User_talk:Roux, and I can see the conversation gradually going downhill to the point where he got annoyed and told you to go away. I tend to agree with Beeblebrox, who advised the both of you to just drop this DougsTech / Kmweber topic totally. If it were my decision, I would protect DT's talk page and clear it, just leaving the "Banned" banner in place. Maybe that's already been done, I don't know, I haven't checked lately, as he's history. Here's a point to consider: It seems like your dispute with Roux centers on the AGF concept. He says DT's purpose was to disrupt. You're inclined to give DT the benefit of the doubt. Here's my theory: You may both be right. DT was obviously here to disrupt, but he may also have sincerely believed he was doing the right thing. That's the dark side of AGF. AGF has nothing to do with whether an editor is enhancing the wikipedia project or not; nothing to do with whether he should be allowed to edit. DT was banned for apparently using wikipedia as a battleground. And even if he was totally sincere, he still has to go, because he's using wikipedia for the wrong purpose. A trivial example of the same thing is the guy I brought to ANI over the Hawaii Five-O issue the other day. A minor edit dispute, and the editor appears to be totally convinced he's right. AGF. That does not mean he's actually right, within the realm of wikipedia guidelines. In summary, it's what I said earlier: Just drop it and try to do better in the future. You got Roux annoyed, but it's not the end of the world. There is always another future topic that you might be able to collaborate on and mend some fences. And try not to take things personally, even though that seems to be your inclination. We're all just doing the best we can. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thoughts. I'm rather disgusted with the Wikipedia community, but at the same time, I remind myself that trying to get anything other than an encyclopedia out of this site leads to grief. I've told others that, so I might at well remember it myself. Even getting an outside opinion on whether or not I was actually the asshole that this guy was telling me I was.... impossible. Nobody cares, and I might as well expect that. All anyone will talk about is DT, or why I should stop talking about DT, when I'm not. Your ideas about AGF don't entirely line up w/ mine, nor do they have anything to do with the question I was trying to ask. Also, "try to do better in the future," doesn't tell me what I did that was wrong. It just says that I should "do better" - no indication what that means. I wish someone would tell me how to do better, or what I did wrong, except insofar as it relates to DT, about whom I stopped caring before this dispute really got going.  I'm sorry that you think this has anything to do w/ DT. I'm fully agreed that he had to go, and is gone. Whether he was acting in good faith has zero to do with what I want to learn: namely, "was I, or was I not, really just the asshole that Roux said I was?" Nobody will address this, except for the one guy on WQA that Roux proceeded to rudely tear into, screaming "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" I wish I could get anyone to address the question I've actually been asking, but I also think I should probably give up on that wish.  The reality check I'm after either looks like, "GTB, you really were out of line when you said X", or "GTB, you seem to have been doing your best to be courteous, but he rudely threw it back in your face." My suspicion is that that guy was an incredible dick to me, when I was trying my damndest to be polite, honest, and sincere. Nobody will say whether or not I'm at all right in thinking that. Nobody cares. Thanks for reinforcing that, lest I forget it. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No matter how polite you might be on a given topic with a given user, at some point the user may just not want to deal with it anymore. At that point, the best course of action is to just move on. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I know that, Bugs. Are you saying that yes, I was being polite, or that no, I was being a dick? This is the only question I've been asking. It's the only one I'm trying to ask, but I'm starting to develop a second question: "What's so horrible about my first question that everyone wants to dodge it?" -GTBacchus(talk) 20:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want, I could go through that lengthy dialogue on Roux's page and try to figure out specifically what went wrong. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how much I care anymore. I'm currently frustrated with how many times I have to ask a question before anyone considers answering it. You do what you want. If I really was an asshole, and if someone can show me that without indicating that they attribute a whole fictional set of motives to me, then I'll learn from the experience, because I care a lot about communication. If I wasn't actually a big jerk... then I think nobody at all cares. Nobody is interested in making anything better, or in confronting Roux about his raging discourtesy (of which I have not been the only target). People only care that I not talk about DT, which I'm not doing, and haven't been. I'm truly disgusted. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't recall if Roux has ever been snippy with me or not, but either way, I get snippy sometimes also, so I'm in position to be criticizing someone else. :) If someone gets snippy with me, then I just leave them alone. Unless they're a troll. But I don't consider admins and other established users to be trolls. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the only person about whom I really want to hear criticism is myself. If I was a dick, I'd like to know it, but nobody's going to tell me. I get to guess. If I was - as I think I was - actually being sincere and polite for most of it, I'd be happy to know that, too, just as a reality check. I certainly am not trying to pursue some action against Roux. I really would like to see my own behavior evaluated, but please, please... don't do it if you don't want to. I'm comfortable with that, ok? Just say, "no, GTB", and I'll quite peacefully drop it forever. If you say something that seems to indicate I want something that I don't (as this last reply, that seems to indicate that I really want to you criticize Roux to me), then I'll comment again, but if you just say, "no", then this will be over, and I'll be quite relieved. In fact, I'm just going to assume you said that, all direct-like. I don't owe reality any favors here. Bye for now. -GTBacchus(talk) 21:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking I might go through that dialogue and try to see what went wrong. But I don't have time for anything lengthy right now. Maybe this evening. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, let's see...

Looking at Roux's talk page, it starts as a debate over DougsTech, particularly about his talk page. Roux says you're biased, on the grounds of you lobbying to get him unblocked. Xeno also disagrees with him about the DougsTech talk page. You deny lobbying. Roux says he's a sock of Kmweber, who was a rather notorious troll as I recall. The two of you continue to debate the harm, or lack thereof, of letting DT manipulate his talk page. Basically, Roux is convinced that his purpose from day one was disruption, and you're convinced not. There was something about "sound mind" in there, and it seems to have gone downhill after that. In fact, I still don't understand what you meant by that, but I'm thinking you mis-stated it. Soon after, Roux says, "I'm really not interested in continuing this any further" and you say "... Goodbye". That's when it should have stopped, except your (...) comments that precede your "Goodbye" compel him to answer. Then it gets into character issues, and arguing logic and wording and such stuff as that, which unfortunately just serves to polarize the situation. He asks for a simple apology and gets more arguing. I think that's what irritated him further. You go to WQA and the argument continues. Roux is convinced that you're attacking him. He's probably blind to your explanations by this point. Soxwon wisely says your mistake was continuing the debate. Beeblebrox wisely advises both of you to drop it and move on. I agree with that. What to learn? What to do better in the future? Be more aware of the rising temperature. Talk less. Explain less. Apologize in one sentence at most. Be prepared for the apology to be rejected. If so, then accept the rejection. If he says go away, then go away. One more bit of advice: Study the Kmweber and Bstone situations, to help form your own conclusions. And if you don't agree with the conclusions, whatever you do, don't bring it up on Roux's page. You can bring it here if you want, though.

Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. (Although I was being 100% sincere and non-sarcastic, even hopeful, when I said "if you just say, "no", then this will be over, and I'll be quite relieved." Oh well. Win some, lose some.) The "sound mind" comment... The point I was trying to make was "There exists another side to the question." Just that. Roux claimed that DT was trolling, no question, no debate. I was trying to say, "no, there is another side". In other words, "someone of sound mind could disagree with you". In other words, "I see your position, but I also know that I can sanely hold the contrary position." I did not dream of suggesting that Roux's mind was anything but sound, and I think it takes somewhat tortured logic to force that meaning onto my words.  Is it really that complicated to discern the meaning of "someone of sound mind disagrees with you"? Is it really such a stretch to see the meaning as "there is more than one valid side to this question"? Did I really not manage to say that, in small words, two or three times? (That was number 1)  As for the "arguing" that accompanied my apology, I understand and agree with your point. I think it was a difficult situation, because every time he requested demanded an apology, his demand carried riders about my own malicious intent. If I just assented to his request, I would also assent that I had meant to insult him. I was not willing to agree that my intent was malicious, because it was not. (What would be the point of that, honestly?)  I think the best lesson I can take from it is to avoid making the initial post that pissed off Roux in the first place. That poisoned the well, as it were, and made it very difficult for him to believe that I had any good intentions, even after I retracted it and re-stated it politely. Another lesson is: even if I feel wronged, maligned and slandered, I should learn not to pursue any kind of satisfaction over that. I've advised many others: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia - trying to get anything else out of it (e.g., justice) tends to lead to grief. I wasn't rude or dickish, so much as foolish. I think Roux was incredibly rude (I mean, if someone apologizes in a second venue, to cover his bases, replying "don't grovel" is an absolute asshole-move, no question - but NO ONE CARES if he's an asshole), but my job is to find a way to ignore it. I know, somewhere inside, that there is no way to enforce policies such as AGF and CIVIL - it's just hard to remember that when I feel extremely shat-upon. Please tell me you understand why I might feel that way. (That was number 2) Don't criticize Roux to me, but is it really so strange that I was upset by those claims about my utterly fictional malice, disingenuousness, and lobbying? Possibly the most frustrating thing about this episode is the utter lack of confirmation that I might have some cause to feel wronged at all. From everything I've heard, I'm entirely wrong, and there's no excuse for me to feel slighted in any way. Nobody seems willing to talk to me as a human with feelings, only as a malfunctioning robot, who is simply bad and wrong. What a load of absolute donkey shit. I know you don't find a lot of people-skills online, but this is ridiculous. Is it really so unreasonable to think that someone might say, "wow, I can see why that would be upsetting, and why you might react the way you did"? Really?  Oh.... no comments "compel" anyone to answer. Roux has the power to reply or not, as he sees fit. He chose to keep replying, adding more false accusations against me each time... but then the second edge of the sword cuts. I'm subject to the same weakness. If there's something with which I disagree, then I'm very likely to say so. The fact that he and I are both tuned that way seems to have contributed to the problem.  I will look into the Kmweber and Bstone situations. I won't talk to Roux about anything at all if I can possibly avoid it (which I can, per my so-called "free will", as above). I think you know that you and I have different attitudes about "trolls". I think that our community has managed to enable - to the point of institutionalizing - the most infantile and counter-productive ways of handling "trolling". I'll certainly let you know what I think about Kmweber and Bstone, but I've already got a hunch what I'll think...  I marked the two points in this post to which I'm particularly interested in your response. Still, please reply if and only if you feel like it. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm looking into it, and I see that Kmweber was another Wikipedian who opposed a lot of RFAs, and that people made the same laughably stupid claim that doing so is disruptive. The idea that someone has so much power over us without our granting it is simply nonsense. How can he animate these scores of Wikipedians into action by posting an oppose vote that everyone knows has no effect on any outcome? What harm in ignoring such votes? Why do we empower serial opposers to make us hopping mad? Why are we so pig-ignorant about this? What a community of babies we are. No, I'm not excepting myself. Have you read WP:TYFYV? There's clearly more to his situation, but that part of it, and the rabid hounding that he received from our #1 World Champion Troll-feeder Sceptre, says to me that claims of his "trolling" should be taken with oceans-worth of salt. So far, I see Wikipedia failing another test. We suck at this. Is there a particular page where I get get the pith of his story, that you know of? -GTBacchus(talk) 20:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is part of it. Landon1980 (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, Baseball Bugs, I've been reading some history, and I'm wondering exactly why you pointed me in that direction. Kmweber was clearly someone with the best interests of Wikipedia at heart, and with a pathologically inappropriate idea of how to get there. His approach would work if he could wave a wand and make human nature different, but he can't. Therefore, he was doomed to generate more and more heat, and less and less light, and he was rightly community banned. Not a troll, rightly outta here. Do you bring this up because you want me to believe that Kmweber and DougsTech are the same, or that either or both of them are trolls? I deny that they're trolls, but I support both bans. Are you under the impression that I think DT should be unblocked? I do not. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, or what this has to do with the question we were talking about. -GTBacchus(talk) 23:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (Pardon me for butting in, but as an avid stalker of this page I feel I must) This is just an opinion, but notice the strong reactions towards Kurt and how affected ppl were, that's not something that's going to leave overnight, and bringing it up continuously isn't a good idea. I think you were experiencing the same sort of, for lack of a better word, "irrational" anger with Roux and trying to continue discussing things with him was pointless. Also, the inability of Kurt to pay attention to the heat was generating until it was too late, may correlate to your own situation, though not nearly to that degree. Finally, you have the idea that trolling is a blockable offense. That's for you to decide, but again, keep in mind ppl will form strong opinions on the subject, especially when they become involved. Soxwon (talk) 00:12, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or it could be that Wikipedia simply hates the Colts, it's up to you to decide :). Soxwon (talk) 00:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Finally, you have the idea that trolling is a blockable offense." Do I? I had no idea. I thought I believed the opposite. Why do you think I hold that opinion? I don't know who's "bringing up continuously" any issue, either. I'm just studying what BB recommended I study. I'm pretty sure nobody's recommending that anyone do anything relating to Kmweber, DougsTech, Roux, or anyone else. I thought we were just looking over the wreckage for clues. -GTBacchus(talk) 00:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Errgghh, I must break myself of that habit. You was not refering to you GTBacchus, but just in general, as in there is the idea that trolling is a blockable offense. As for bringing it up continuously, I think Roux felt you were beating a dead horse and really he was showing he didn't want to talk about it anymore. Soxwon (talk) 01:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying "apologize for your insulting behavior, and I'll converse with you," is a very, very bad way to say "I don't want to talk about it." The instant he stopped inviting me to further conversation, I fucked straight off. Do you take "apologize and I'll converse with you," to simply mean, "go away"? Do you? -GTBacchus(talk) 01:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but I think the situation wasn't one that should have been started in the first place. The convo, if it was really necessary, should have ended before you started the new topic heading With the wording fixed. He didn't answer your previous statement, and answered the opening with "this discussion is at an end." Those are pretty good clues that he wasn't in the mood to talk further :). That the convo degenerated after that is supporting evidence of such. Soxwon (talk) 02:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, you're right of course. I still have this crazy idea that someday, someone will say something that basically amounts to, "I understand where you were coming from GTB". I don't know why I entertain such childish fantasies. Wikipedia is the wrong place to look for humanity; it's just an encyclopedia. I remain curious why Bugs pointed me to Kmweber, but I really want to hear the answer to that question from Bugs. You know, seeing as he's the one who pointed me there. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I sent you to Kmweber simply to let you read about it and decide for yourself whether he might be the same guy as DougsTech. I'm not so sure, but I'm not as close to that situation as Roux apparently was. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. It turns out that I don't remotely care if they're the same person. I don't see that as mattering one little bitty bit. -GTBacchus(talk) 06:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As an admin, you should care. Dealing with trolls and sockpuppets is part of the job. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. I don't see how identifying someone as a previously banned user makes it easier to deal with them. I think the best way to deal with "trolls" does not involve playing the "I know what you used to be called" game. An intelligent reaction to DougsTech would not involve sniffing around for whether he's a sock. This is an encyclopedia, not a round of cloak-and-dagger. -GTBacchus(talk) 12:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Getting back to the specific points you raised earlier today, the statement "someone of sound mind could disagree with you", could easily be seen as meaning, "I am of sound mind while you are not". Had you said "someone of equally sound mind could disagree with you", that might have been better. And yes, I understand why his reaction was frustrating. As Soxwon said, things basically degenerated, and the more words that were written, the worse it got. This illustrates some of the problems with the written word. If you two were face-to-face, it wouldn't likely have gone this way. I've seen this with e-mails in the office, where someone will say something that the other doesn't like, even if it were meant innocently, and it can escalate in a hurry - and the only solution then is to stop sending e-mails and give the situation some time to heal or at least dissipate. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think we're all on the same page here. The word "equally", as you say, yeah. Thanks. -GTBacchus(talk) 12:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't be a rubbernecker
I've just penned the above essay, after a recent ANI thread where the rubbernecking was particularly unhelpful. I thought you might like to review it and offer any suggestions for improvements. –xenotalk 13:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And if they persist, you could threaten them with a "gapers' block". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Argh! Seeing something hidden is always irresistible! The best thing is just to make it clearly too long to read -- and I can recommend a number of editors who are unable to write anything under 5K in length per post.    And they work cheap! Collect (talk) 19:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They doubled my salary recently. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good pun, I must admit. articlefied! –xenotalk 19:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The traffic-copter guys on WGN radio always called accident slowdowns by that term, gapers' block. I don't know if that's a Chicago thing, or if it's called by that term everywhere. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * According to gaper's block it's a Chicago-ism. I'd never heard of it, in fact I thought you coined it yourself until I googled it! –xenotalk 20:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. It says Leonard Baldy coined the term. Ironically, he created a gaper's block of his own, when his helicopter went down in flames in 1960. That was a little before my time. The guy I used to hear using that expression was Irv Hayden, and his copter went down also, a few years later (1971 - and some sources say Hayden originated it). I think the choppers they use nowadays are a little safer. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The essay in question could be categorized under "nannyism". :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I am a licensed pilot, and I understand the differences between fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft. If you lose power in a fixed-wing aircraft, and are within sight of anyplace reasonably flat, you have a pretty good chance of making a good landing.  In a rotary-wing aircraft, you have to "autorotate", which pretty much means "plummet".
 * Note that a "good landing" is "everybody walks away", and a "great landing" is "you get to use the aircraft again". PhGustaf (talk) 23:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep. If you're in a chopper, and it loses power, all you can do is watch the ground come up at you. I only fly when someone else is piloting, and no matter how rough the flight, I consider it successful if I come out of it alive and mostly unharmed. You've heard of "frequent flyer" programs. I recall a comment Yakoff Schmirnoff made to Johnny Carson, about being in a "frequent survivor" program. Yep. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:56, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Character of opposers
My opposition to you was from my witnessing at least five incidents where your comments seemed unnecessarily harsh. They were either supports for long term blocks or indef blocks. One should be quick to forgive. Too lenient is always preferable in non-life and death situations than too harsh. If that reveals the character of my oppose or my person, than fine. I never hid it, and I make the above known at indef proposals quite often. Ottava Rima (talk) 02:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I stand by what I said. As always. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:55, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Dottie
Is it me or is there a similarity between an editor there and Ax-man-8/ate/etc? Grandma Dottie (talk) 00:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, several of them, really, as they're all mostly right-wingers that have been defending that [babe]'s page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You seem to have an idea of who this might be with respect to the whole Axeman thing. Is there a checkuser related to that case? — BQZip01 —  talk 21:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * More than one. See a couple of links (so far) on User talk:Jclemens. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Carrie_Prejean

 * This is going to be the second time I'm going to have to ask you to redact a statement calling Prejean a []. Please don't do this again. AniMate draw  00:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't make me prove it. >:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I searched Google for "carrie prejean" along with that obscene word [] and found over 6,000 references. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, make yourself useful and see if you can figure out which user the creator of this section is a sock of. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Until they tip their hand, there isn't a lot I can do. All of the edits are non-controversial, though it is rather obvious this isn't a new user. AniMate draw  01:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder what that user thinks about the subject of Pioneer Courthouse Square? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should take this to an admin familiar with the background, because I'm not. AniMate draw  01:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll just keep an eye on the situation for now. It might just be a one-time, drive-by. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you swing by my talk page and comment re: my block of Grandma Dottie? Thanks. Jclemens (talk) 19:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Sleepy Hollow
Re: The Legend of Sleepy Hollow - Perhaps I'm the one who is sleepy? Good call. --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Quoth the raven, "S'alright!" :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Leading the league in wins; Deletion of material
Hi ... can you please give us some guidance as to your thoughts on the issue discussed at ?

In short, I input a sentence that pitcher x was leading the league in wins. That is mentioned in more than one article, and in fact the focus of at least one -- as reflected by its title.

A fellow editor believes the sentence should be deleted now. I am happy with it being deleted when out of date, but believe that deletion is not mandated now. Analagous to our having stats in infoboxes, that turn sour with time (and are replaced, in time). Many thanks.--Ethelh (talk) 00:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I am generally not all that keen on running totals, but that's just my opinion and it could depend on the situation. I think you should take this debate to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball and get a possibly broader audience. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There are times that mid-season snapshots make sense, esp. if it turns out to be the highlight of the player's season/career. It wouldn't matter that Greg Maddux had the best ERA at the mid-June mark of 1998 - not only did he finish the season with the best ERA, but (maybe this is the Mets fan speaking) Maddux was perpetually among the ERA leaders for the entire 1990s.  Dontrelle Willis, on the other hand, was so hot in the middle of one season, he went to the All-Star Game and was on my television every 20 minutes or so, but he cooled off and is nowhere near that level anymore.  A mention of mid-season stats for him would be totally appropriate.  Oh, and I also agree that I should be typing all this nonsense at WT:MLB instead of here.   Wknight94  <sup style="color: blue;">talk  04:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Spam
... in the interest of being responsible and all, I'll put this here instead. It was going to go in, small'd and double-indented, under your 03:22 12Jun09 post at ANI. I thought better of the notion, but it was already all typed up and everything...:

Having only just now received the contract as a representative of Hormel Foods (boy, that PayPal works fast when you call a vice-president), I can assure you that we here at Hormel discourage any linking of our Spam product with unsolicited internet messages. We especially consider linking of images of cans of spam spam spam, spam spam spam, spammededy-spam, wonderful-spam to be actionable. Our food product is carefully made from animals sucked in by the giant intake fans around our production facility. If you would like a tour of the intake fans, followed by a close look at our processing plant, please enquire. Until we are able to add you to our weekly production tour schedule, please do not use our relevant images for your own purposes. We now return you to our regular programming schedule. :)

I take your point on templating, just think it was the wrong place to bring it up. Franamax (talk) 04:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That would be this, from ANI: "I'll admit that some of them are a tad bit over the line. One that I would be tempted to use when indefing would be something like "you've made some good edits at times, so I'm subtracting a day from your indefinite block". It's a good fantasy, anyway. Maybe a good start would be some better illustrations. I like the one with the illustration of a block. That's better than the scary big red X. Maybe for spamming, an actual spam can would be the ticket. It's also important for the block notice to emphasize that they can appeal the block. It already says that, obviously, but maybe that could be illustrated too, with an open cell door or something. (Ain't I creative? A right brain is a terrible thing to waste, you know.) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC) " Hey, I hear they've got a new version of Spam that has 50 percent less fat. The can is only half-full. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:42, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I beg of you...
...unwatch ANI. Please. Tomorrow will be your year-anniversary of posting there and you're approaching 4000 edits and posting at a rate of 10.3 edits per day. –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b><sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 18:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You just don't like hearing opinions that disagree with yours. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that has nothing to do with it. I've already explained to you previously why your behaviour there is mostly unconstructive. But on that note, I don't see how any of the sarcastic block comments that were used would have prevented the creation of the phenomenon we call grawp. –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b><sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 18:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And your explanation is as bogus as your complaints about the block notices. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Noted
Noted. This will be my last post here, save for courtesy notes, etc. In parting, could you amend your comment at the bottom of this thread? ("...his ill-advised block of...") I didn't block him. A more accurate statement would be that I poked him. Thanks in advance, and happy editing. –<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b><sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk 19:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't say anything about you blocking anybody, so I don't know what you're talking about. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:36, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. Fixed. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Plaxico
Considering two "Plaxico" moments on ANI this week (see here and here, I have decided to make User:MuZemike/Plaxico into an essay (yes, WP:PLAXICO). If you have any suggestions on how it should be made, let me know. MuZemike 17:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Air France Flight 447
Ok, you insulted me on the AF447 discussion page. Maybe if you discuss rather than insult straight away I would not have a problem or others... Read carefully, as I said in my reply. 'Car crashes happen all the time' not people missing flights then dying, and I was not insulting the other guy 'don't be stupid' is a common term, It's the same as saying, 'don't be silly' so apology? Zaps93 (talk) 20:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not the same, and it is insulting. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:07, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with Bugs, "don't be stupid" is a personal attack that shows no good faith whatsoever. Dayewalker (talk) 21:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar for U
- <font color="#FFDB58" size="3" face="Matura MT Script Capitals">Damërung <font color="#FF2400">...ÏìíÏ...<font color="#A7FC00">_ Ξ_       .  --  21:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Now all we have to do is convince certain admins. :\ Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ended up at your userpage and laughed out loud for a good 10 minutes. Love the humour!  Best regards -- Samir 10:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I appreciate that. Some others do not. It can be a tough audience at times. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bugs!
Hi there. I know that things have been a bit strained between us recently. I am not sure what I can do about that. Anyway I saw you make this comment on ANI as a diff without context and perhaps I attributed something to you that I shouldn't have. Whatever else, people shouldn't talk behind the back of others, apropos very little I told people on IRC that I didn't like you. I want to apologize for that. Not for not liking you, because I think that is entirely your fault, but I shouldn't have said that behind your back. Sincerely, Unomi (talk) 12:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't follow what you're getting at. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I stumbled onto the Admin thing for max
I figured he;d bring me up so i looked into it... and i felt like tell you I've been indef blocked atleast twice, once on cody6, once on here... just so you know my record --Jakezing (Your King) (talk) 01:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, just do your best to avoid a third one. He's rapidly painting himself into a corner. He can do that by himself; he doesn't need our help. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

wabbits
I see you have edited to Bugs Bunny. I just started editing. Can you look at my change and see if it is acceptable? thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunthamund (talk • contribs) 01:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the Latin description in the lead is pushing it. There's already a section that talks about rabbits vs. hares. Maybe it could be added there. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

When is it appropriate to cit eWikipediA as a source?
Title says it all. see Cemetery of the Holy Rood? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Simple answer: It isn't. See Articles for deletion/Cemetery of the Holy Rood. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Not backwards. Probably forwards. (Perhaps sideways.)
Re this: I don't think I had it backwards, exactly. I do see what you mean, but the analogy you're drawing puts rape and sexual harassment in parallel positions, whereas my analogy put incidents of violence—i.e., rape and murder—in parallel positions. Actually, I wasn't even trying for a real analogy, just saying that the one thing reminded me of another. As far as "political correctness" goes, I usually find the term to be a conversation-stopper because it has so many shades of meaning that it has become effectively meaningless. But I agree with much of what you're saying and am glad to see another rational voice added to this discussion. If you have lots of time and patience and a strong stomach, go through that article's talk archives sometime; most of what is being said now has been said before, more than once. There's a lull, then up pops a well-known contributor accompanied by an apparent newbie brandishing neutrality tags and allegations of agenda-driven editing. It's a bit like Whack-a-Mole in slow motion. (Another problematic analogy, I know.) Rivertorch (talk) 22:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

On SineBot
I've noticed on the Docu RfC that you mentioned that SineBot should be fixed so that it automatically signs Docu's posts. It actually would be doing that already (and the entire mess we've got avoided), except that Docu has explicitly opted out of SineBot's function by adding the NoAutosign to his userpage. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 12:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, no joke. User:Drawn Some

RfA
Isn't it about time for your next RfA? Please notify me on my talk page so I can be sure to support, you are the most sensible editor I have come across. Drawn Some (talk) 01:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeh, your timing is peccable. I suggest you get back to me at a later date - maybe toward the end of Sarah Palin's second term as President. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

RfC
btw, I'm not trying to be sarcastic with you, although it might have seemed that way. Pzrmd (talk) 07:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I know. I'm just as offended by that RFC as you are. Although it seems like Docu himself is not overly concerned. But we'll see. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was worried about this, but I'm glad you didn't see it that way. Pzrmd (talk) 07:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Harassed, hassled, beat-up-on, they're all pretty much the same thing. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wabbits
My Bugs Bunny edit got reverted. Thats OK I guess. So I looked at where you edit and I saw the trouble you got into with Obama. Then I saw all of the time you spent on those gossip boards where everyone types how everyone else is a problem. Maybe I could help you to edit productively so you don't wind up in more trouble. The first thing I think, is that you should work more on articles. It looks like this site could use more contributions to make articles better. Seems you have an interest in baseball. I am sure you could add some content on all of the various pages about that subject without causing problems. I also saw how some others have tried to help you in the past to type more about articles and spend less time worrying about others. If you need help with your problem, feel free to ask. Here are some good steps to follow: The end goal is to build an encyclopedia, not run a chat room for little girls to run around in a panic whenever a bad editor shows up. I hope this was helpful. As you can see, I want to be a productive editor myself. So, now that we got that straight; do you think that we should put my scientific terminology back into the article? I was thinking that maybe it wasn't so good to be in the opening sentence, or maybe we could just blue link to the scientific term but leave the visible 'rabbit' on the page. I would appreciate your advice on this issue. Take your time, there is no rush hear. I know that Baseball Bugs, given enough time and assistance, has the ability to become a productive editor. Thank you.Gunthamund (talk) 12:45, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1)  Concentrate on your own work and helping write to the articles.
 * 2)  Don't be distracted by bad editors.  There are plenty of grown-ups (admins) that can take care of the problem with out your schoolgirl comments.
 * 3)  If you find that you can't follow #2, then get a paper bag and attempt to recover from your hyperventilation.
 * 4)  Again, try not to soil yourself, the grown-ups can undo the bad edits.
 * 5)  Once you have recovered, try to compose yourself and get back to the articles.
 * 6)  The adults will fix the bad edits.  They work much better when they have only the bad editors to deal with, your panic attacks only add to the drama.

Baseball Standings or Who should be in first place?
Hi Bugs, I know that you follow baseball. Do you think you can look at this thread and confirm the answers I'm getting are correct? Thanks! A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Bugs! A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 03:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope it left you sufficiently confused. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the ironic thing is that my softball league just put up a notice that they weren't going to update the standings until the makeup games are played. Grrrr.... A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

RE : Requests for arbitration/Obama articles
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.


 * ,, , and  are admonished for their edit-warring. Furthermore, they shall be subject to an editing restriction for one year. They are limited to one revert per page per week (except for undisputable vandalism and BLP violations), and are required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page.
 * In addition, and  are topic-banned from Obama-related articles for six months, including talk pages.
 * and are not to interact with each other, including replying or reverting of each other’s actions.  and  are not to interact with each other, including replying or reverting of each other’s actions.

Non-compliance to the above are grounds for blocking for the duration specified in the enforcement ruling.


 * is admonished for his part in the edit warring.
 * and are reminded to be civil when dealing with hot-button and controversial situations.
 * is reminded to be more civil when dealing with users and to not use talk pages as a forum.

The probation on articles relating to Barack Obama will be reviewed by a group of involved and non-involved editors and administrators to see how effective it has been. The process will last two weeks. After the two weeks elapse, the working group will provide their findings to us and the community, and will outline how the article probation will run in the future.

- For the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 15:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * More civil LOL. Stop your talk page forum shenanigans you pesky wabbit! MickMacNee (talk)
 * I guess if I remain uncivil on the Obama pages, I'll get topic-banned from there. I haven't edited there since about March, though, so I guess I'd be able to handle such a topic ban. I don't know if it will be that easy for the major players, though. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't that mean you'll be banned from the White Sox article too though :P. Soxwon (talk) 18:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have to create a stealthy alternate account. Given the subject matter along with the lack of any right-brain skills, I would probably name it User:WhiteSoxPuppet. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey! No using your talk page as a forum, asshole. PhGustaf (talk) 19:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa, someone needs a f***ing censor over here. Soxwon (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, the ArbCom's ruling was a little off the mark. They're just trying to curb negativity. So the problem is not for 'em, it's agin' 'em. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Today's NYT Crossword
Its title is "Famous Last Words". I'm stumped by 27-across, which is, "Die, my dear? Why, that's the last thing I'll do." I have an idea you can help. PhGustaf (talk) 19:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I looked for that phrase in Google, and the first site it took me to was trying to sell me anti-virus software and claiming that I'm infected. If I am, that site did it to me. So I guess you'll have to wait till next Sunday to find out. :( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Groucho. PhGustaf (talk) 20:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect. That sounds kind of familiar now. If true, it would figure that Groucho would go out with a joke. P.S. Your edit summary is a variant on one I had heard, though I don't know where Groucho said it: "I've had a wonderful evening. But this wasn't it!" Perfect. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I forget what movie. If it helps, he said it to Margaret Dumont, and she looked confused. PhGustaf (talk)
 * Hey, alright, that narrows it down. Well, I'm familiar with most of the Marx/Dumont movies, but I don't recall that line. But the one film I don't have is Monkey Business. Maybe that's the one? I bet User:Cinemaniac would know, though. I think he knows Groucho better than I do. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:ANI

 * Bugs... oh bugs, why are there so many editor claiming to be newbies when their action seem to suggest otherwise in WP:ANI? My hair, too, seem to be getting lesser and lesser with each passing day... btw, does eating carrot help? --Dave1185 (talk) 20:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I dunno, but Xeno told me to stay away from ANI, so I'm trying to do so. Regarding carrots, they're good for vision. But lately, I haven't been liking what I've been seeing. ... (That's a variation on another oldie.) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Boy oh boy oh boy... guess I'll just have follow the doctor's advice and stay away from ANI as well. Anything to stop the hair loss! Oh, someone just mentioned you at WP:ANI... username is sum ding wong~! --Dave1185 (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even I wouldn't stoop that low to make a joke. I might hurt my back. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe you remember Doodles Weaver's joke, "The other day a guy came up to me and said, 'Doodles, your hair is getting thin.' I said, 'Well, who wants fat hair?'" [insert rimshot here] You remember Doodles Weaver, otherwise known as Sigourney Weaver's uncle? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you know it as they say this... Quack quack quack~! --Dave1185 (talk) 00:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And now it's Blocked! Blocked! Blocked! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Ref Desk Response
Your answer to this is actually a bit funny, but some people might not realize it's a joke. For example, if you're first language wasn't English, you might take it seriously. Probably not, but it's still probably better to add a "Just joking, by the way" onto the end. Thanks,  gENIUS  101  19:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much: that's all I ask. And you managed to keep the humour too! Thanks,  gENIUS  101  21:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, you're probably right about that! Thanks,  gENIUS  101  22:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Test 0
Test 0.

Test 1
Test 1. ~

Test 2
Test 2.

Test 2
Test 3. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots

Test 2
Test 4. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Test 2
Test 5. 03:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't you have a "preview" button where you live?


 * I've essentially been called a liar for saying that sinebot has sometimes filled in my signature. I'm putting that to the test - although I'm thinking maybe it only happenes on certain types of pages.


 * If that's your worst problem today, it hasn't been a bad day for you. I do note that sinebot has so far ignored this intercourse.  Somebody somewhere suggested that sinebot gave up on editors with more than 800, or something, posts.


 * Yeh, a slow day at the office. NOT, actually. Yes, I was also told that 800 figure, and challenged it, but I can't prove it, as I don't know how to scan through my gazillion edits and see which ones omitted a signature which was then filled in by sinebot. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Might make for a good experiment (thing we can get a government grant for it?) Soxwon (talk) 05:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Man... this really reminds of the story between the tester and the testee. Ha! --Dave1185 (talk) 11:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Socks
I blocked the three socks you reported to AIV. One was obvious, but the other two, less so. I'm trusting you on the other two, as I am not overly familiar with Ron liebman's editing patterns. Best, TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  18:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

CoM Post
Now that's funny! :) - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer •  Talk  • 23:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have an endless supply of old jokes. Milton Berle was always jealous. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't Berle known for an especially large schvantz? I'm imagining you and he and Errol Flynn all flopping them out on the table.  PhGustaf (talk) 01:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Please stay off my talk page. You've been asked numerous times by me and by an administrator to find other things to occupy yourself with. Your comments have nothing to with article building and are of absolutely no interest to me. This is your final warning. Do not respond on my talk page. Stay away. Thank you. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * CoM, do yourself a favor and do not post any of these "stay off my talk page" posts as they could be seen as incivil and get you blocked again. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer •  Talk  • 00:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He's headed the same direction as Axmann8, just more slowly. I'm done with him, and eventually wikipedia will be done with him also. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * CoM has a lot of good stuff to say about Lutheran salads, though. PhGustaf (talk) 01:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not familiar with Axmann8, but his day will come and it will come soon....and with the way he is going after this block it may come tonight. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer •  Talk  • 01:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't have to be that way. He's not a Johnny-one-note as Axmann8 was. He simply lacks an understanding of what NPOV means. The choice, to stay or go, is strictly his. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Very true. He could turn himself around and be a very good editor.  I would like to see him do so, but I think that that won't happen :( - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer  •  Talk  • 01:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, looks like I have been "banned" from CoM's talk page too. Just breaks my heart. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer  •  Talk  • 01:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Two wrongs do not make a right, especially your own personal attack of COM on my talk page.
Regarding this edit, calling him names in this way is not helpful. Please do not attack other editors, even those whom you disagree with on political issues. It is unbecoming, it does not defuse the situation, and is rude and uncalled for. I would appreciate it if you didn't make statements like this at all, it is not a good reflection on you at all. --Jayron32. talk . contribs 01:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe you weren't watching on the night of March 8/9. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerald Walpin
Hello. I would be grateful if you would consider rephrasing your remark here to use less inflammatory language (specifically the phrasing that stunt). It is likely that ChildOfMidnight's edit was a good faith mistake; he would not be the first to unaware that a topic ban extended to discussion of the topic in project space. It was me who removed his edit but I am also of the opinion that all editors ought to be addressed in a professional tone, regardless of any past mistakes. CIreland (talk) 03:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: CoM's page
Good advice. I will do just that :) Take Care...<small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer  •  Talk  • 05:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I seen the excuse making, kinda sad. If I see him make a comment or edit a "Obama-related page", I will be sure to turn him in to ANI and ArbCom. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;"> NeutralHomer  •  Talk  • 05:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Cookie
He seems to have snapped out of whatever was going on and is hitting the ball again. At least my team is doing its part to set up the dream Real Sox vs. Cubs series. PhGustaf (talk) 01:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Which sort of brings up an interleague issue. They try to write the schedule to give historical opponents swats at one another.  Yanks-Mets is an obvious one.  But does Boston-Atlanta count, given that pretty much everyone who saw a Boston Braves game is dead? PhGustaf (talk) 02:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The Braves from time to time have tried to maintain their Boston connection, starting with 1953 when they played their traditional exhibition "city series" with the Red Sox even though they had already moved to Milwaukee. I think there are still a fair number of Boston Braves fans still around. However, after 57 years, Boston-Atlanta does seem to be kind of a stretch as a "rivalry". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Interleague ball has afforded some great matchup opportunities and has certainly boosted attendance, which was the whole point. The Cubs-Sox and the Yanks-Mets series are great stuff. Cardinals-Royals might not have quite the zest to it, but it's still a good novelty. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, getting asses into seats is a good thing. And seeing a pitcher who hasn't held a bat since junior high hit a homer is a great thing. PhGustaf (talk) 03:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Uh Bugs
In my opinion buddy, [this is just fanning the flames]. If his behavior is that unruly, it'll just play out from here. Soxwon (talk) 02:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that you leave CoM be. Let him or her crawl into the bunker with Grundle, where nobody will notice either of them. 02:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That was in response to his griping about my having posted on his talk page. Should I delete it and wait for someone to ask me about it? I could do that. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, That'd be good. Cheers. Soxwon (talk) 03:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted it. Maybe you can tell the March 8/9 thing still gets my goat. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I also note his second ANI gripe section in the space of 24 hours. No need to add to that one, for sure. That 24 hour block was a curious case of being both too much and not enough. It was claimed by some that it was unjustified in the first place, and if it was supposed to be a cooling-off block it was too short for that. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to hear a good etymology for "getting one's goat". A really good lexicographer I asked came up blank. PhGustaf (talk) 03:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The story I always heard is that racehorses used to have goats as stablemates, so if you "get someone's goat", that can upset their horse. That could be a totally fake explanation, but it's what I used to hear. This much I know: It's a very old expression. For example, it's part of a lyric in a Billy Murray song from 1914 about a guy frustrated with his jalopy: "Things went just dandy till they got down the road / Then something happened to the ol' machinery / That engine got his goat / Off went his hat and coat / Everything needed repair / He had to get under - get out and get under - to fix his little machine..." Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The first thing that came up under "get one's goat" in Google was this: which has the horse explanation as well as a literal explanation about someone's only source of milk being stolen. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, I am trying to calm the waters and trying to look forward from here. I really don't want to get into 'who said what and when etc.'. The time to stop the comments back and forth is now, as any further (even mild) comments will just fan the flames. I really don't want to see folks blocked all round. Take a deep breath and just avoid adding any further negative comments into the mix. I am posting this advice all round. Further postings seen as inflammatory could have consequences. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine. I am done communicating with and about that guy. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Recently, the families of people who were the victims of King Midas tried to sue him.
Unfortunately, the case was thrown out of court; they could have left at any time so they were gilty by association. Half Shadow  17:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In the distance, I'm hearing a muffled roar. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah and you're behind me. What does that tell you? Half  Shadow  17:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That you're way ahead of me. Like Midas, you follow the Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules. Of course, there will always be those who want to borrow from those who have the gold. That's technically called a Midas touch. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Look, they're catching up to you. If you want to live, you midas well start running now. Half  Shadow  17:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I never look back. And I always keep my Satchel handy. It doesn't hold much in the way of supplies, but luckily, I don't eat much. If I were any more slender, I'd be in back of me. Recently they handed out extra money at the office. But I didn't spend it on food. I'm down to skin and bonus. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As Satchel himself said, "Avoid running at all times ... and don't look back; something might be gaining on you." Or am I just citing the obvious? —— Shakescene (talk) 03:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Avoid running, yet don't look back, even though if you're not running, then something is almost certainly gaining on you. Seems a paradox. Must be speaking metaphorically. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well you could be just "jangling around gently as you move" without turning your head. As for paradoxes, Bugs must certainly believe in the axiom that one can't simultaneously run with the hares and hunt with the hounds. —— Shakescene (talk) 03:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably "contradiction" would have been a better term. And the "jangling" rule further complicates matters. Maybe these rules operate in parallel universes.
 * Funny you should mention the hares and hounds analogy. One of Bugsy's cartoons had him doing exactly that. Until they got wise. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or as Aristotle himself might have put it while circumambulating the square of oppositions, "You've got to accentuate the Positive, eliminate the Negative, latch onto the Affirmative, and don't mess with Mr. In-Between." —— Shakescene (talk) 04:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the power of positive thinking. That has a Peale. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Interleague Play Update
Tim Wakefield just got a single. I'm waiting for the Sox to reincarnate Warren Spahn. PhGustaf (talk) 21:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even now, Warren Spahn would be an improvement over some of these characters impersonating major league pitchers. As for Wakefield, good for him. I like to see pitchers who can hit. The Cubs once suffered through an entire season with a pitcher, Bob Buhl, who was the poster boy for "automatic out". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Timmy is much beloved by the Sox fanbase, and he gets to pitch until he's dead. I'm not too happy, though, with Smoltz.  A 42-year-old fastball pitcher coming off shoulder surgery is not a good investment, even though if he quit now he'd be a coin toss for the HoF in five years. PhGustaf (talk) 21:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He might be able to, if he stays healthy. Smoltz is just playing out the string, it seems. Maybe he could join Bret Favre in the I Don't Know When to Quit club. I recall the Red Sox once had another good pitcher who could hit pretty well. I forget just who that was, but I think he was named for a candy bar. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dick Radatz had a candy bar? PhGustaf (talk) 22:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Got no comeback on that one! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Papelbon is as good as anybody ever was at getting three outs. I'm not sure whether the suspense in the middle is a good thing or a bad thing. PhGustaf (talk) 23:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, he's something. The candy in that case would be the famous Papel Bon-Bon. Joe Nathan is pretty good at getting 3 outs. When he gets the chance to pitch, anyway. :( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Random Wiki Smile!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Baseball Bugs, WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message. - Warthog Demon  21:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that. And I want you to know that I have always held warthogs in high esteem. They remind me of a Rodgers and Hammerstein song that goes, "Do I love you because you're beautiful? / Or are you beautiful because I love you?" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Warthog In some pile somewhere I have the cartoon showing the Hog of Steel dominating the NFL.  As in "tackle them all; then throw away the ones who don't have the football". PhGustaf (talk) 02:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To hyphen or not to hyphen. Wart-Hog vs. Warthog. Spider-Man vs. Spiderman. That kind of thing. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:25, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Saint George
Hi, Yes that fellow was "reprimanded" and if you look on his talk page and the IP I marked him as abusive. But these IP persistent people can waste everyone's time. If you feel I was wrong in adding those terms back, I do apologize to you. I did revert him when he insulted you, but the revert was based on his insult to you rather than anything else. But I later noticed that the reference he had added was actually valid. Those are valid names fo rthe parents of Saint George I think. So:


 * His language and attitude leave a lot to be desired.
 * This particular reference was valid.
 * He seems to be mellowing out. I have been amazed that some vandals have been "rehabilitated" in the past and become anti-vandal users. He may yet be rehabilitated.

Now, if we can rehabilitate Capital L... that would be an achievement. Cheers. History2007 (talk) 22:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Miracles still happen. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A good landing, but not a great landing. The pilot's extensive efforts to keep count of the Souls On Board were part of his job, and he did it very well. PhGustaf (talk) 03:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I wonder if that's official terminology. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Souls On Board" is indeed official terminology, and something that gets filled in in every flight plan. The pilot in this case took two walks along the length of his badly broken airplane to make sure nobody was left behind, and then busied himself counting the people in watercraft.  Good pilot.


 * Note that a "great landing" would have involved using the plane again.

03:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * So where did the plane end up? In a museum? A training facility? The junkyard? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It got towed to a dock. My guess is that it was scrapped.  Immersion in brackish water is not good for engines or electronics.

PhGustaf (talk) 03:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They should have cut it into little squares and sold them as souvenirs. They could use the money to get some ammo for shooting them dastardly birds. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Latest ANI post
It probably would have been better to report that account straight to WP:UAA. Over there, we get username violations of every type—including misleading, offensive, and promotional usernames—all the time. If it says "admin", "crat", or "arb" in any way, shape, or form, don't be afraid to hit that "arv" button associated with Twinkle and report that user. Hope that helps, MuZemike 07:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

re: Nice Gesture...

 * Support — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 02:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for trying. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, there was a nice write-up on Forbes Field in the local paper today, you might enjoy reading this. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 02:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Excellent! And if the Maz homer isn't the all-time greatest Forbes moment, there should be a recount. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'll admit that I was only 3 when Maz shook the world, but my dad took me often during the mid and late 60's. Great memories, and ya can't really grow up in Pittsburgh without an appreciation of what it was all about. ;-) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  03:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's the first World Series I remember, but of course I didn't see the big blow because it was on a weekday afternoon and they wouldn't let us skip school. Maybe they did in Pittsburgh, but not in the heartland. The most important thing in baseball is winning the Series, and the Pirates won 3 of them at Forbes. The 1925 Series Game 7 saw a nice comeback with a big 8th inning, kind of like Game 7 in 1960, minus the big bang to end it. The 1909 Series finished at Detroit. So I would think it's got to be Maz, but we'll see. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Apparently, you've been banned.
See. MuZemike 04:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL. Good times BBugs.  Nice to know you have fans... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  04:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My public. How they love me. :) And I love Oregon, but it does attract the occasional weirdo. Like that guru a few decades ago. And more recently that "Harvard Professor" who's a "Pioneer" of vandalism. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * See ya in exile. Katr67 (talk) 21:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And the banned played on. Does the Ark-hive sail to the Exe Isle? —— Shakescene (talk) 21:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * On cruise. But first I have to treat this wound to my spirit. I need a banned-aid. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, Bugs, but I'm not sure that the ship's doctor can provide one to a 13.5 year (and a hare) old. Isn't that still below the statutory banned-age? Will you need to strip? —— Shakescene (talk) 23:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If so, it could be a comic strip. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

facepalm re: Wikiquette alerts
I don't think Caspian Blue get's it. He's taking offense and declaring WP:UNCIVIL PRICK to something that wasn't really, then proceeded to get offended by OR's natural defensive reaction. I don't think either editor is at fault really, just a misunderstanding that went bad. Soxwon (talk) 04:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't want to name names, but let's just say that a subset of the editors in that debate (not you, for sure) seem to be a little irritable today. In any case, OR's version is large and awkward, but it fits the page anyway. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, in that case, I bid you adieu. I am taking a nice vacation. :) Soxwon (talk) 04:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome. But wait... you're not sticking around to watch the fireworks over the Charles River? Or have they cut the budget, and the show will be limited to everyone in the crowd being issued a sparkler from the remainders table at Wal*Mart? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think they've decided to go for the biggest works show in history and invited Monica and Hillary (with commentary by Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olbermann). Soxwon (talk) 04:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely potential for some Big Bangs. To spice things up further, bring Tonya Harding in. Oh, and maybe a choir, consisting of the SC Governor's many "counselors". They could do a vocalese rendition of the "1812 Overture". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tonya Harding's no fun, you need her boyfriend along for the ride. As for the choir, perhaps there could be dancing later :)? Soxwon (talk) 16:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The boyfriend could come along, but Tonya is pretty good at starting slugfests by herself. Dancing? Sure. Maybe along the Appalachian trail, where the SC Governor supposedly was until he took a wrong turn and somehow ended up in South America. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Must have gotten the wrong AT, Andean Trail. Soxwon (talk) 17:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Climbing the mountains, as it were. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, the Grand Tetons Soxwon (talk) 17:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ooooh, yeh. I once worked with someone of French extraction, and pointed out that national park and asked her if it meant what I thought it meant. She turned a shade of red and said, "I can't believe they called it that!" I explained that the explorers, Lewis and Clark or whoever it was, had been on the road a very long time by then. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * They say they were actually named for the Teton-Sioux (whom I can only assume were quite, err..., gifted ;). Soxwon (talk) 17:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... the plot thickens. Was that "Sioux" or "Sue"? Maybe that was Sagagawea's nickname. I have a hunch she did more for those guys than just taking dictation. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Your contributions to Types of gestures
While I appreciate your editing and your desire to add to Types of gestures, I would remind you that, by consensus, Wikipedians expect the information in articles to be supported by reliable sources. You have added an unsourced and possibly unsupportable allusion to Homer Simpson to the article Types of gestures three times. While not technically in violation of the three-revert rule, this editing is, I think, disruptive. Let us take the discussion to Talk:Types of gestures, rather than further disrupt the article's main page. Thanks. Cnilep (talk) 16:33, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The entire article is OR. You should focus on that general problem. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OR on WP? In keeping with the theme of your chosen username "Say it ain't so!" ;-) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 00:51, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Believe it OR not!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

ding, ding - we have a winner!
per: And nobody didn't like her. Sounds like she would make the perfect RfA candidate. ;D — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 00:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, she might create some drama. She could throw pies with the best of them. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Was Joe DiMaggio's hitting streak a fluke?
See a rather ponderously condescending guest column in today's Wall Street Journal.

What I really wanted to send you was a column about how closely together celebrities die, but I can't remember where I saw it: the Journal, the NY Times, the Boston Globe, the Providence Phoenix, or somewhere else. It makes the point you've made about how arbitrary are comforting or troubling generalisations about bad things coming in threes. —— Shakescene (talk) 03:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a fact of news writing that when something happens, if something similar happens around that time they make more of a thing of it. In the space of 6 days we lost Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett, Michael-somebody-or-other, and Billy Mays. That's 4. So it's just an old-wives-tale that "bad things come in threes". Regarding Joltin' Joe, without reading it yet I know that some have questioned whether all the hits he got that extended the streak were "good" hits. There's also the mathematical thing that his record is so far ahead of second place as to be a statistical "fluke". However, he also hit in 61 straight for the Seals in 1933, so it's not like he was a stranger to hitting streaks. In fact, after his 56 was snapped he hit in something like 17 straight, a pretty good streak by itself for any batter. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * And now having read it, I think it's safe to say that the author never had to face major league pitching. Hitting a baseball productively is said to be the single most difficult thing to do in sports. The greatest hitters of all time, including singles-hitters like Rose and Keeler and Cobb, couldn't manage to come close to the figure DiMaggio achieved. Certainly there's a luck factor. But if so, how come Joe is the one who got so lucky - twice, yet. Ted Williams was supposed to be the greatest scientific hitter there ever was - but he didn't do it either. The author forgets that the players are not robots. Certainly, if a guy set a specific goal of hitting in 162 consecutive games, he might be able to do it. But at what cost? The game situation can demand that the batter do more than just try to get a single. And the pitcher is trying his best to get the guy out. The author is also trying to reduce DiMaggio's career to the hitting streak. He's apparently forgotten that Joe was also on Yankees World champions 9 times - including that 1941 season. 9 times. That's more than a third of the Yankees 26 World Series winners overall. I suppose the author would call that random luck also. Speaking of which, Joe also managed to get married to Marilyn Monroe. Just lucky. Yup. Oh, and he was pretty good at selling coffee, too. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:24, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But, now that you've, as judges and opposing counsel say, opened the door on such domestic questions, was it just bad luck (perhaps to counter his good luck in joining Arthur Miller among Norma Jean's husbands) that he and Frank Sinatra happened to knock on the wrong door and beat up the wrong guy in a drunken fit of jealous rage over Mrs. DiMaggio? "Smarter than his brother Joe— Dominic DiMaggio!" —— Shakescene (talk) 05:27, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know if it was bad luck on Joe's part, but it was certainly bad luck on the part of the guy in the room. But mistakes can happen. Now, if Joe had hit some poor schmo on 56 consecutive nights, that's another streak they might have talked about. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:34, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I wish
I wish I could upload http burnurl.com 1bv3dd this image to Commons and use it all over AN, AN/I and in most RFAs and RFCs - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 06:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a good one. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
We don't even know that; all we can say is that we cannot say that they are with any degree of certainty :( -- Avi (talk) 02:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Annoying gnat
Hey, could you advise me on how to get this guy (User:Starstylers) to stop adding an irrelevant text/cite to the page of Singapore with this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Singapore&diff=prev&oldid=300266380, because frankly speaking that particular section focus on outstanding disputes between Singapore and Malaysia, both of which shared a common history and colonial past. IMO, its like he is pushing his POV here when he keeps adding that same text/cite back into the article, arguing that it is relevant when he is talking about Indonesia instead. Plus, it is so plain to see it is not a notable thing and that whatever he is doing is to irritate the hell out of us (me especially, even more so with his less than civil rebuttal posted on my page which I had promptly removed) and nothing more. I've warned him about the COI issue here because that is exactly what he is portraying to us. Where should I take him to in order to redress this issue? Wikitiquette or ANI or DR? --Dave1185 (talk) 16:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Some say that I'm an annoying gnat. I'll take a look when I get the chance. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Editing survey
Hi Baseball Bugs. My name is Mike Lyons and I am a doctoral student at Indiana University. I am conducting research on the writing and editing of high traffic “current events” articles on Wikipedia. I have noticed in the talk page archives at Barack Obama that you have contributed to the editing or maintenance of the article. I was hoping you would agree to fill out a brief survey about your experience. This study aims to help expand our thinking about collaborative knowledge production. Believe me I share your likely disdain for surveys but your participation would be immensely helpful in making the study a success. A link to the survey is included below.

Link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=P6r2MmP9rbFMuDigYielAQ_3d_3d

Thanks and best regards, Mike Lyons lyonspen | (talk) 22:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't do surveys, but thanks for your interest. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

thinking
Ya know, I was thinking (well, that is if what those synaptic responses going on in the cobwebs between my ears can be called thinking .. lol) - there's some folks that just don't care to disagree about things. I mean for the most part I don't either, but there are a handful of editors here that I enjoy going to in order to get the "devils advocate" point of view. You, Malleus, Lara, MZM, and a couple other folks that I consider good wiki-friends, but know they can present an opposing view without acting like I'm an idiot for thinking the way I do. That is not common talent to have Bugs. It's something I truly admire in you and a select few other editors. I think there might be a couple others like Ottava Rima, Caspian Blue, and maybe Soxwon that I'll feel that way about too, but I just haven't gotten to know them very well yet. It can be very hard to post responses to opposing points of view without becoming emotionally invested. Watcha think? — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 04:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

You're quite a character (in a good way)
Well, I don't know why I can not dislike you even though I have a plenty of good reason to do so....I'm sure that you're not one of typical Americans that I've known....If you want to try to be a friend of CoM, well, you've gotta choose a different way. Ched is your Wikifriend, and CoM is his sort of friend, so you can find a common interest with him for sure.--Caspian blue 01:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind words. I'm only willing to go so far to "make friends". But over time, even those that don't get along can learn to tolerate each other. That discussion with Ched was illuminating. I'm just thinking that more time and distance is required. Meanwhile, I can't believe someone would think CoM and DC are the same guy. Either I'm a total idiot (which is possible), or the accuser is not looking at things very closely. Accusations of sockpuppetry are really over the line unless someone has solid evidence. I'm just trying to imagine a guy writing at length in support of African causes while at the same time encouraging WND readers to vandalize the Obama pages. Nah. Unless they're suffering multiple-personality disorder, that accusation doesn't add up, and it needs to be cut off at the pass. Which I'm trying to do (as was WMC, if you look closely.) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you have a solid history of assisting SPI cases, so I think your comment to CoM is quite helpful to kick out of the absurd accusation. I think you and he have just more time, but I actually enjoyed talking with silly jokes on food, but I was wondering why you do not give up on making friends with GTBacchus and CoM. --Caspian blue 01:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, I have given up, at least for now. Or is that what you meant? And I do suspect that we could talk about food amicably, except he's slammed the door in my face totally at this point, so dat's dat. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, he deleted my last comment, but when I was having a very hard time in dealing with some stubborn editor whom I've been working together on Korean cuisine, I had no room to listen to CoM's advice that I should respect the user and approach him more gently because of many things in our history. After some time went by, I have a room to follow his advice, so I think you can do the same. :)--Caspian blue 01:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * To learn to tread more softly? Well, that's not a bad idea. I'll see what I can do, over time. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and thanks for standing up for me on his page, which I didn't know about until you told me - because I actually have stopped watching his page, following his most recent "F.U." to me. And while I've cut back on my ANI activities, I still monitor it, and if I see someone I'm acquainted with being falsely accused of socking, I'm going to defend him, even if he doesn't necessarily deserve it. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, come on, he did not imply "F.U", but well "Go away" perhaps with his reverts. He just needs more time until he can accept your good faith behaviors just like I needed time for the above mentioned user. :)--Caspian blue 02:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As I see it, "Go away" and "F.U." are functionally the same thing. I was watching his page ever since March, and after this latest thing, I decided to stop, and with any luck, we either won't run into each other again, or if so maybe time will have healed it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Caspian is wrong. I do not need more time. I simply need you to take my talk page off your watch list and for you to focus on other areas of the encyclopedia. There are lots of editors and lots of articles, and there's no need for you to be involved with me or the content areas where I'm working. Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Your talk page is already off my watch list, and as far as I know we are not editing any articles in common. I continue to monitor ANI. I have dealt with a number of sock cases, and when someone makes false accusations they need to be called on it, i.e. they need to put up or shut up. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

FYI
Sockpuppet_investigations/Grandma_Dottie You were involved in the discussions last time. — BQZip01 — talk 20:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you think about this (good hand?) account? Contributions ALL on the 11th, then a stoppage, and then picking right back up the same day as the BQ problems. Note: again, no overlaps. If you concur, feel free to add it.  — BQZip01 —  talk 16:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you connect them, other than the time lag? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Obama articles arbcom case
I've requested an amendment to the Obama ArbCom case to examine and remove several of the findings of fact and remedies passed by the Committee. Your comments would be appreciated here. Thank you. Sceptre (talk) 13:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to stay totally away from certain users, in connection with Obama stuff. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We have one or two new ones you might have fun with. PhGustaf (talk) 17:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That kind of fun I probably don't need right now. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But I'll check it tonight. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The action is at Talk:Public image of Barack Obama. PhGustaf (talk) 17:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't canvass. --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Who are you talking to? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * PhGustaf. --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He's just being funny. The original notification, from Sceptre, doesn't look like canvassing, and besides which, I was active in the Obama articles at one time, and was also mentioned in the ArbCom page, so it's only reasonable that I get notified. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And now that I've been there, I can't believe some bozo is still making a thing about the teleprompter. If Bush had used a teleprompter better, maybe he wouldn't have sounded like an idiot all the time. Nuff sed? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

California Flag
Why is it you think I am trying to sell something? Look at the files history. Where does it say I am offering it to Wikipedia Users for sale. All I have done, was add a blurb about the file, and what I do with it. NEVER have I offered it for sale! See again USERS LIKE YOU Accuse me of doing something I am not doing.--Subman758 (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Once it's deleted, it will become a moot point. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

CA Tax Increases
Actually Bugs it was 5 of 6, I know because I voted NO on all six of them. I am guessing you live in Texas as you mentioned something about a Texas Flag, I sure wish I lived there. People can say what they want about Texans, but they seem to have a firm grasp on reality. You should know that in light of those Propositions that went down in flames, with the exception of Prop 1-F, the state government is now ready raise taxes on us in other ways. Such tripling our car registration fees, energy taxes, fuel taxes, hell they will add a farting tax. Why should anyone have to pay twice their car payment to register a car for one year.

Now nationally The Democrats blame Republicans for the country's problems. In California Democrats can not blame the Republicans. The Democrats have controlled this state for the past 25 years. We have had a Republican Governor or two, well actually just one Pete Wilson, No way I count Arnie as a Republican. But every major state office (save maybe one or two) The State Senate, and State Legislature, have been controlled by Democrats for the past quarter century. Look where we are today, on the verge of bankruptcy, issuing IOU's to the people, when we used to be the fifth largest economy in the world. Only the U.S. as a whole, Russia, China, and India were bigger.

This state is being held hostage by five major labor unions, (Police Officers, Fire Fighters, Nurses, Teachers, and Prison Guards). I myself support Unions, and am a proud member of the Teamsters, Local 952. I support cops they got a tough job, but I am sorry no cop should be bringing home a six figure salary. As for our teachers here, again I support them, but when our schools have the lowest grades, and the highest dropout rates, why should our teachers make enough money to be driving 75,000 cars?

It is really the People's fault. They keep sending these idiots back. In 2005 all we had to do was vote YES on Propositions 73, 74, 75, & 76.

If you would like to talk more on this issue that is fine by me. Lets not do it here though. Feel free to email me at Subman758@aol.com--Subman758 (talk) 19:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah. As long as you agree that the people of the state did this to themselves. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

ANI
I made a serious suggestion of shutting down ANI for 5 days except for dire emergencies. This exception would mean that it wouldn't be completely shut down or page protected, just a show of solidarity to edit, improve, and write on existing and/or new articles for 5 days and limit the projectspace work to see if we can make WP a better encyclopedia.

The subject thread/posts are gone! I can think of a number of possibilities including moving it to an obscure location, blanking out, vandalism, etc. I don't know where it is. I also don't remember anyone who replied in order to ask them, except my sockpuppet (not serious!)* which is you. Joking aside, do you know where it is or what happened to it?

User F203 (talk) 16:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

*To the curious reading this, both of us agreed on a certain minor idea on ANI. To some who love ANI drama, that's proof of sockpuppetry, so it's just a parody or joke.


 * It was moved to the talk page for further consideration, I believe. Dayewalker (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Your name has been maligned in an arbcom amendment thread
Mine too, at. I chose not to respond. (I'm aware that you're staying away from that page, but the editor's not telling you was gauche.) How about them Red Sox? PhGustaf (talk) 03:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know that being constantly poked and prodded and generally talked nasty about has to really suck, but if you keep winding yourself up on the Arb page it may give credibility to those otherwise incredibly silly attacks. Feel free to ignore me, or demand a cookie or even come rant on my talk if it'd help any :) Shell   babelfish 05:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've said all I can think of to say on that page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I hear you - getting sucker punched when you weren't even looking, ugh. FWIW since this last came up on ANI (or AE or somewhere?) I was impressed with the way you just let it drop and moved on. Shell   babelfish 05:56, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm not sure I can be more specific - CoM ran somewhere and complained, you responded, someone said for both of you to leave it be and you walked away - completely. Other involved parties haven't been quite so...helpful...in the way they handled things (i.e. saying nasty things on the Arb Amend for no good reason).  Good call on adminship though - they at least give the Pope bullet-proof glass, here you just have to self-learn ninja mop skills :D Shell   babelfish 06:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I already knew I was crazy so its nice to know some folks think I'm in good company :) But seriously, "the wiki is doomed" and "the inmates are running the asylum" always seems to be the start of a downward spiral that ends in a ban of some sort. Shell   babelfish 07:04, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There's some nice schadenfreude involved in watching CoM digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole. I'll stay more or less polite, though, till CoM's next RfA run. PhGustaf (talk)

Duck?
I'm confused, has duck replaced troll on AN when I wasn't looking?  Whispe ring  07:09, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it has to do with suspicion of sockpuppetry. WP:DUCK or some such. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:BabeRuth19321001.JPG
Thank you for uploading File:BabeRuth19321001.JPG. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

hang on a second
we'll get that autoreview thing up and running for ya — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 05:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * OK .. you now have the "Autoreview" right. The page that describes it is Autoreviewer.  All it boils down to is that when you create or edit an article ... it doesn't go to the WP:NPP listings.  In other words ... we trust that you're not creating bullshit... lol.  Less work for others, because you have enough experience to know that what you work on isn't a piece of crap (personal attack, spam, hoax, etc.).  If you want the pretty picture, I'll dig it out tomorrow. ;-)


 * On the twinkle. Go to your preferences, and on the "gadgets" tab, you'll see the option to check mark it.   It's got some pretty useful stuff actually.  You can read about the specs at Twinkle and Twinkle/doc.  Personally I think you would find the damn thing pretty useful. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  06:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not supported on my browser, i.e. IE. :'( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * IE is so ancient, get Firefox instead~! BTW, congrats on becoming AutoReviewer. So, do you need to a VCR to work with that? Just kidding'~! --Dave1185 (talk) 10:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, my Betamax works great. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:53, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Firefox is, among other things, much more resistant to viruses and other crapware than (ptui) IE. And, at its rootd, it'ds the older program. PhGustaf (talk) 14:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (ptui) IE? Yeah, you took the word right out of my mouth! Netscape was good (until AOL screwed it up) and FF is like the great grandson of Netscape. --Dave1185 (talk) 15:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * IE, then, is more like a product of multi-generational incest. However, it's what I'm used to and it's what we have on our work PC's. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * D'OH~! (face palm) --Dave1185 (talk) 06:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

NL or AL?
I say the NL is finally going to do it tonight. They got far better individuals than the AL, which seems to be more team-oriented. MuZemike 21:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it would be terrible to treat baseball as a team-oriented sport. Most important question: What kind of hat will Obama wear when he throws out the first pitch? PhGustaf (talk) 22:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've got a hunch the NL is going to break their long losing streak, although I wouldn't bet the family jewels on it. If Obama is politically smart (which I think he is), he'll eschew the White Sox cap and put on a Cardinals cap for the occasion. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * One proposed alternative is a neutral cap with the presidential seal or somesuch. As for the game -- tossup.  It's hard not to like that Pujols guy, though. PhGustaf (talk) 23:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Pujols was clearly pressing last night. He's a good guy, but he's taking on too much of the burden. Presidential seal? Not a bad idea. But I'm betting on Redbirds.
 * So the Cardinals opened the park in 2006 and won the World Series the same year, the first time that's been done since Yankee Stadium opened in 1923. If the Cards win the Series again this year, that will be the first time the All-Star host won the Series since, naturally, the Yankees - in 1977. The question then arises, has anyone ever opened a new park, hosted the All-Star Game, and won the Series, all in the same year? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:35, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And the answer is no, though the Reds came close in 1970. And another answer is - no cap, but a White Sox jacket. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And back to the original question... it's a good thing I didn't bet the family jewels. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:24, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Papelbon was really, really, lucky those two balls didn't have a few extra joules on them. PhGustaf (talk) 03:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Right. Family joules. Harry Caray used to say (usually in reference to a ball caught in front of the wall), "One more biscuit for breakfast, and that was gone!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:57, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Jeez, why can't the NL, like, you know, win for once? MuZemike 16:52, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But at least our Prince is the King of the Long Ball (503ft was the longest with average of over 460ft to win it). MuZemike 16:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He's like a lefthanded version of his father. Born to be a slugger.
 * Why can't the NL win? There's always a luck factor, but it might come down to pitching. There's the 18 straight outs, for one thing. And the final 3 innings, facing 3 tough closers. It's almost unfair. But I recall a stretch where the NL was winning almost all the time, so these things have a way of changing. It's just odd how streaky the All-Star Game has gone over the course of time. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking back to 1983, when the NL had dominated for so long, and in the 50th anniversary game, returning to Comiskey Park, the Americans pounded the Nationals 13-3, and things started to turn around. Fred Lynn hit a slam in the 7-run third inning. He was playing in that softball game they had on ESPN this past Monday night, and he still holds the bat the same way. And although he's 57, I thought he could probably have hit better last night than a lot of those National Leaguers. Maybe even Stan, at 88, could have showed them a thing or two. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * At least Obama had a good day. What could be more fun than flying to a baseball game with Willie Mays, talking trash with the best players in the world, getting a ball from Stan Musial, and making an almost-decent opening pitch?  Meanwhile, it's arguable that the NL pitchers lack concentration because their rules distract them by making them make usually futile attempts to hit the ball. PhGustaf (talk) 18:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

You are invited and welcome to join us!
Greetings! Please come and join us for the The Great Wikipedia Dramaout Grundle2600 (talk) 19:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can honor it passively. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, the page is worth reading just for CoM's comment. PhGustaf (talk) 22:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ironically, I almost said the same thing initially here. Maybe he and I are not that different after all. Yikes. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I also very much enjoyed his comment. I think it applies to many wikipedians! Grundle2600 (talk) 23:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (I wanted to point this out somewhere and your talk page seemed a good spot...) Interesting that as soon as this Dramaout is proposed, ANI explodes with another Giano block and AN goes round and round about civility. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  23:30, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Think of the days leading up to this event as Wiki Mardi Gras. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * At least where I live, the trash collectors recycling technicians rarely get holidays. They work on Labor Day, Memorial Day, and whatever.  This is because the amount of trash remains constant regardless, and when they take a day off, they just have to collect more on other days.  Same with AN/I, etc, and DramaOut.  Take a five-day brek, take ten days cleaning up the mess. PhGustaf (talk) 23:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's like coming back to work on any job, after vacation. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I could hardly contain my laughter. In fact, I couldn't and pee'd myself laughing out loud so hard. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here  03:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to avoid drama, so I'll give CoM the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was just being funny. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:26, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * To start the observance, did you see WP:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Thekohser/MAXDRAMA? Collect (talk) 03:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but that's pretty funny. Good sense ultimately prevailed, it seems. I'm reminded of what Tom Lehrer said in 1965: "On the first day of 'National Brotherhood Week', Malcolm X was killed, which shows you how effective the whole thing is." Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:46, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Horrible Things Planned
Hello, I am planning horrible, highly distressing things for CUTKD. Please campaign to have his talk page unprotected so I can get around putting them on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.50.223.253 (talk) 21:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Stop
There is no reason exacerbate everything I do, just like the ED question with GTBacchus. Pzrmd (talk) 03:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already forgotten what that was. Just try to focus on editing. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:28, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If I am on your watchlist get me off now. Stop escalating everything I do. I am not playing games you j!@#$%^ / wondersome one. Pzrmd2 (talk) 08:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

about the AIV
Hi, Just to make clear, I'm not at all making the argument that User:Eric144's edits are appropriate, I'm just saying it's not vandalism.  Certainly he's getting close to WP:3RR territory, and has definitely crossed the WP:WQA line... perhaps you'd be more effective bringing his edits up on those pages? Thanks. -- Deville (Talk) 20:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

FYI
Sockpuppet investigations/Grandma Dottie Checkuser is complete with two confirmed socks and 3 others "indicative" of sockpuppetry. Request further input. — BQZip01 — talk 22:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In regards to a sweep, that's what they did. That's how the other muscle account was set up and tagged. Basically they found that ThreeE was involved. While I think the case should have then been moved as to under ThreeE as he is the puppetmaster; it is irrelevant though and it seems he's trying to hide behind that technicality now ("How can I be a sockpuppet of an account younger than mine?!"). It's really a moot point since he'd be blocked in any case. — BQZip01 —  talk 03:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Hostile and Vicious Pit.
FYI. PhGustaf (talk) 21:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Material
Hi. A fellow editor persists in deleting proper, properly sourced material, such as. I know that you are an experienced baseball editor and wikipedian; perhaps you can help out if the behavior persists?--Ethelh (talk) 06:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I am on the left field fence about it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:12, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

My talk page
In the past, you have raised a concern about my talk page "wizard" system. I have changed this to an FAQ-based system (User talk:Stifle/FAQs), and would appreciate your feedback at User talk:Stifle/FAQs/feedback or elsewhere. Stifle (talk) 12:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I simply couldn't understand it. The FAQ is OK. If I post a question to you, I would do it simply by clicking on "new", just as I would on any other talk page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Iqinn
Sorry, I missed your comment above mine. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He said something about an edit conflict. I don't see how that could have caused an entire section to go missing.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

rules
Maybe we can briefly discuss this here, instead of Gwen Gale's page. Can you explain why you believe guidelines do not actually express rules for editing wikipedia? As I pointed out on that page, WP:BLOCK does explicitly permit blocking for violation of guidelines (indeed WP:POINT is a guideline). &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 00:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I speak English natively, and a guideline is not a rule, as I said about 20 times on that Docu page. You want it to be a rule, make it a rule. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:34, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I also speak English natively, and you're perfectly right that "guideline" was a poor choice of terminology whenever it was made. My POV is that although "guideline" connotes a suggestion, because WP is a collegial environment rather than an adversarial one, editors who go out of their way to not follow guidelines need to be prepared with a compelling justification. I don't see it as an issue of rules. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 00:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What I was mostly offended by was that one user changing the wording to support his viewpoint on the matter. I should point out that, ironically, a lot of users did a better job of arguing for Docu than he did himself. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots

WikiBacon bot results
Hey, I've been developing a bot to show collaboration and initial edits between two Wikipedians (i.e., how did we first cross paths?). Here are some initial results involving you: User:TedderBot/Bacon_Results. Please let me know what you think on my talk page: User talk:Tedder. tedder (talk) 01:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

BQ
Please do not add entries to the above disambig page without first discussing on the talk page. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. Muscle I am (talk) 02:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Bugs is well aware of the talk page discussion, since he's participated in it. tedder (talk) 03:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll wait for Muscles to post a response, after his indef-block is up. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, SNAP! tedder (talk) 03:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ouch...but apropos...
 * Re: "But I'm still turning the socks in. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots"
 * Please do turn them in. I cannot possibly keep up with 3-4 new accounts daily. Thanks for the help. — BQZip01 —  talk 04:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll do what I can. Although I've been known to root for Boston from time to time, when it comes to wikipedia, I am not a "red socks" fan. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought you'd be a "white socks" fan like our Fearless Leader. But then again, "good guys wear black" :) MuZemike 00:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorite team, on any given day, is whoever's playing the Yankees. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My midwest brother. I think both of us will cheat death for decades, just to watch a Cubbies vs. Real Sox World Series, and neither of us will care much who wins. PhGustaf (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Cubs against any color stockings in a World Series has typically not turned out well, be they brown, white or red. However, the Cubs against most anybody in the post season has typically not turned out well. >:( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: BQ
Re, your message, I'm glad to hear there's no hard feelings, and you were going to do the same thing yourself, heh. Well... I have to get back to trying to finish my gigantic sandvich.—  Dæ dαlus <sup style="color:green;">Contribs  03:01, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, you weren't there.
Someone has to do the work around here. And honestly, they're all the same except for the costumes: Bad guy appears, good guys look shocked and transform/enter robots; fight scene, fight scene, bad guy grows giant and beats up good guys; good guys grow giant/combine into giant robot/insert event here and beat the hell out of giant bad guy. Giant bad guy then inexplicably explodes for unexplained reason and everyone has snacks. Half Shadow  03:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the question....um...in question was probably directed to Tan. Therefore I plan to pretend it is. Half  Shadow  03:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah yes; Tan brought up the ol' leper con...


 * (Hot damn, that's twice in one day) Half  Shadow  03:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Getting dangerously close to leper corn. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow. I misread your last line with a one-letter substitution and it became a whole new genre of adult entertainment.. tedder (talk) 06:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yikes. That's a mental picture I did not need. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Yes, O'Shaunacy, yes; give me all five inches!!!!" Half  Shadow  07:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your quick response on the AN/I page; I am not experienced with page protections and I have done as you suggested. Thanks again for your time and consideration, Peace and Passion (talk) 00:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC).
 * You're welcome. The proof will be in the pudding, or at least in whether they actually block the page. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * One other question you may be able to answer: Is there a possible way to put a "watch" on a section of an article? If I'd like to know when the section of a large page which I'm involved with, such as the AN/I page, is edited, so I don't have to see everybody working in different sections, is it possible?  Can I make it show up in a notification above the main namespace as it does when I get messages on my talk page? Sorry for the bother, Peace and Passion (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any way to watch just a section. You could try asking at Help desk. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any, either. Watching WP:AN/I is a big job, and that's probably a Good Thing.  PhGustaf (talk) 01:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've tried to cut back on ANI. Too often it's like "As the Wikipedia Turns". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hadn't thought about a way to "watch one topic". I've thought about making a "threadbot" that posts to a different page every time a new thread is posted- so the title and excerpt would be easy to see, but the drama of a long discussion would only show up once.
 * It would be fun / disturbing /interesting to troll the archives to find what the biggest thread in history has been. tedder (talk) 06:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember that coming up on the help desk a while back (watching just a thread) - and I think there was a discussion at the Village Pump to implement it, but if I'm not mistaken, it was decided that it would be more trouble than it's worth. As far as the longest thread - I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that it was a Giano one. Of course I did read through some substantial threads and archives that revolved around other things too. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  07:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hard to say for sure, but I recall that some of the threads on Betacommand got so lengthy that they were moved to sub-pages. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, I can imagine. Was actually right before I signed up for an account I think, so I missed most of it.  I did read through some of those though.  Hey, did you see he's back.  Has some pretty heavy restrictions, but he is allowed to edit.  Some other ones would likely be some of the Essjay stuff, Gwarp, Kmwebber, and even DT had a subpage too.  Thanks Tedder, ya got us drifting down memory lane ... lol ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  08:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The wikipedia rogues' gallery, as it were. Yes, BC is back, and he got himself into hot water almost immediately, but that issue was settled, and I gather things are OK at present. The G-word guy is probably the most notorious. I think he pre-dated my arrival here, as I don't recall ever hearing about him until I started to see his effect on things on my watch list as it grew larger. There also hasn't been much about him lately, although he still turns up from time to time. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

← The thing that always amazes me is that all too often, someone is actually "right" about something - but they just don't know when to put a sock in it. (oops ... prolly shouldn't say that word on this page ... lol). Sometimes it's better to just shut up for a bit, and come back when you can express yourself in a calm fashion. It's the folks that lose their cool, and start typing what their emotions are telling them to that end up with the blocks and bans. The people that simply address the "content" in an un-involved manner, can just wear ya down sometimes. It can be frustrating .. no doubts there. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 08:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If I didn't have such a hard shell, I might be tempted to take that personally. 0:) I like lively debate. I come from a family that liked lively debate. Not everyone understands that approach (CoM would be one). I've seen many a seemingly useful editor crash and burn, and it seems to be because they get too wrapped up in something and forget what the purpose of wikipedia is, which is to provide valid and useful content to the public. Yes, I am not guiltless. But I've learned (pretty much) where the line is, and to try not to cross it. The last time I was blocked, it was because I was "right" about something and consensus was against me and I wouldn't stop. If nothing else, I've learned when to give up a losing cause. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? ... Oh, no - "you" never even crossed my mind there Bugs - honest. I was thinking more along the Giano, BC stuff.  I've seen a lot of times where "right" doesn't win here.  But that's true in real life as well.  It's all in how we approach the situation, and how we present ourselves in front of others.  I try to find positive things to say about editors, and when I disagree - I try to address the "topic" rather than the person.  I'm not gonna bother going into a CoM conversation, as you know - I respect and like you both.  Yep, I enjoy a good debate as well.  My family wasn't quite as encouraging of a round-table style of dinner conversations that the Kennedy clan enjoyed, be we were always encouraged to speak our minds.


 * I'm hoping to have quite a few of those conversations right here in the coming months/years. I wouldn't take it out into article space, cause I avoid all the political things there; but as I've gotten to know and respect you as a person, I look forward to some good dialog here.  I'll admit, I've been pretty cautious in wading into conversations at WP, especially when I first joined.  I like to get a feel for things, see what the climate is first, and then politely introduce my views. ... such as: I think that Obama is headed down a very dangerous path.  Socialism destroys the moral of the working class, and I think he's pushing things in the wrong direction.  Opps .. Ched's "evil twin" just showed up ... lol ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  09:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I also have concerns about Obama's programs. But that's why we have elections, don'cha know. :) Also, the capitalists, who used to provide "privatized" health care, have abandoned Americans in favor of foreigners. How do we fix that? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That is a very good question, wish I had a good answer for it. :-/ — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 21:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a quick comment (I was the one who started this thread on a completely different topic :P). [My opinion:] Socialism doesn't destroy the morals of the working class; "healthy" socialism helps the working class.  When socialism starts to be equivocated with communism that's where problems start to arise.  I live in Canada, and to us up here (we see American media more than ours) the demonization of our health care system in order to discredit the new American one is getting extremely amusing.  All of the characterizations of the flaws of the Canadian health care system I've seen in the American media are way off-base.  Our system is completely different than it is being characterized as.  First off, the Canadian system does not have the majority of the issues that it has been accused of having (by the American media/anti-healthcare proponents) recently.  Secondly, the Canadian system is actually quite different than the one Obama is proposing; different enough to make the fact that it is being used to analogously discredit the potential American system a blatant logical fallacy (even beyond the mischaracterizations).  I have recently seen Canadian television programs start to parody this disconnect which is occurring in the media--not only with the healthcare controversy, but other things; Canada seems too often to provide a "we can't go the way Canada has gone!" example in American discourse (and the disconnects to Canadian realities are getting more significant--events like us not going to Iraq seem to have further inflamed it). Sorry, just thought I'd add my two cents from this perspective: I have often wanted to move to the States, but the biggest thing that pops into my head is a losing the healthcare system. P.S. The Canadian government at the moment is more conservative than the American, but we still seem to be characterized as "those wacky [hippie] socialists in igloos!" Just an amusing note: on the news today there was an American sport player of some sort who had come to Port Alberni being interviewed (Port Alberni was 110° today) who was a little stressed out because he said he only brought heavy sweaters, pants, and toques. Just my 2 cents..., thanks for your time Peace and Passion (talk) 03:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Then again there's Canadian Dave Foley, of the TV show NewsRadio, who once said about his homeland, "We're so liberal we make Castro look like a Republican!" :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually think the best parodies of Canadians and the Canadian political process are in South Park :) -- seen any of the 'Canadian' episodes? The funny thing is though, most parodies of Canadians are geared towards American viewers, which leads to some interesting social/political anomalies in them, in contrast to parodies of the United States, like Team America, et al., which are geared towards American viewers. Parodies of America are thus often introspective in nature, whereas those of Canada become confounded in themselves! :) Actual Canadian comedians are apt to say whatever they can about Canada to get laughs, regardless of how many cliches they have to play, just like comedians of various ethnic minorities and Mexican comedians. PS Thanks for your help with the protection of the PE article at ANI——I requested indefinite semiprotection, which the admins at the Request for Protection wanted to allow (due to the ongoing extreme vandalism; and no established editors working on article upkeep), though they eventually decided (after an unusually long discussion for that page) to go for a 6 month, to be increased later, as they said it was extremely unusual for an article to go from never protected to indefinite. Peace and Passion (talk) 06:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 6 months should be a good start, to cool the jets of the vandals for awhile, You never know what a vandal will latch onto. I'm curious to know what others have to say about the USA in a merely satirical way, since we're kind of insulated from that kind of thing (we only hear the extremist "evil empire" kinds of stuff that turns up on the news). Someone once compared the USA to a big, friendly dog that walks through a china shop eagerly wagging its tail and destroying things in the process. That kind of hurts, but I suspect there's a lot of truth to it. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

My sock-sniffing friend..
Mind seeing if you can find better evidence on this? Sockpuppet investigations/New seeker tedder (talk) 22:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

InsideNorthside - A North Minneapolis Encyclopedia
Hi, I noticed you've edited some articles related to North Minneapolis and I wanted to tell you about a project I'm involved in called InsideNorthside. It's basically a wikipedia for North Minneapolis, built on wikispaces (which is a bit more user-friendly then mediawiki, though not nearly as robust). Anyways, wanted you to know. I'm trying to find some wiki experts to help build an initial user base for the site. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://insidenorthside.org --Ariahfine (talk) 01:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a note
I just wanted to say that I do understand the post. More to the point though, I wanted to say how much I appreciated your being willing to give quarter, accept compromise, and even say outright that it was wrong when things went beyond a certain point. Your maturity is impressive Bugs. I can understand that you've been deeply offended, if not downright "hurt" in the past. It takes a hell of a man to set those things aside, and simply search for acceptable solutions, without the request for the "pound of flesh". You're a good man, and I admire and respect you. I just wanted to say that outright - without implications, but with clarity. ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 05:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Murder of Eve Carson
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Murder of Eve Carson. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Articles for deletion/Murder of Eve Carson. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Banana Boat Song
So, how would you handle this article, which is self-contradictory? The song is a Jamaican folk song. I have a copy of "Folk Songs of Jamaica" (OUP, 1952) which contains it. The article references Edric Connor's recording of the same year. The article also states that Burgie wrote a version in 1956. This contradicts the statement that it was "originally a Jamaican folk song written and composed by Irving Burgie". The chronology within the article shows that Burgie copyrighted an existing folk song.

Perhaps the best solution is to take out the text "written and composed by Irving Burgie" as his part is documented further down. James Fryer (talk) 07:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The best solution is to do some additional research and determine the truth of the matter. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So it's fine to leave the article as a contradictory mess in the meantime? OK. James Fryer (talk) 08:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, unless you have all the facts, what choice is there? The impression I got is that it was an old folk song that someone merely wrote down. But that's not clear either. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Dunno who wrote it, but the best arrangement is Stan Freberg's. PhGustaf (talk) 15:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, like, I don't dig spiders, man. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're too piercing, man. Too piercing. Padillah (talk) 17:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, fangs a lot! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(undent) OP, does the fix I made to the page work for you? It seems like most popular "folk" songs have had some professional input over the years, leading to results like the Kingston Trio's blatant theft of Tom Dooley from, among others, Frank Proffitt. PhGustaf (talk) 18:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So they turned a Proffitt? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Much more than Frank ever did, for sure. He was the real stuff, a guy who made his own banjos, starting off by catching a groundhog to skin for the head.  At the time, though, folk songs needed a considerable smoothing before they became commercially viable.  The KT didn't pay him fairly for his song, but he at least got remembered for it. PhGustaf (talk) 20:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes that is great, thanks. James Fryer (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

No offense intended - but it occurs to me that if we had someone named "Layer" post here also, we'd have a full henhouse. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Volvo
Brilliant thread. tedder (talk) 05:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's one way to put it. And I didn't even bring up Deloris Mulva! Actually the Volvo joke was from a David Letterman joke, decades ago. If I hear something funny, it may stick with me for years: "From The 100 Dumbest Sex Questions I've Ever Heard, by Dr. Ruth Westheimer: 'Why does she want me to touch her Volvo?'" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And also notice I didn't carry that any farther, such as some comment about "checking under the hood" or something like that. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The "under the hood" comment caused much LOL here, had to share with my partner. I listen to Loveline semi-religiously, so I've heard my share of dumb sex questions like that. Heh. tedder (talk) 05:21, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * With my semi-fertile imagination, I could carry the car metaphor much farther, but I need to focus on some third-shift work tasks here. :) However, the original comment that spurred that line of discussion was priceless. I wonder if the IP address even got the joke. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Which reminds me... So how are things going in the Beaver State? :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

And vaguely related, there's this bit of comedy:  Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno about this guy's damaged Volvo, but the comment about being "taken into hand" makes me think he is not the master of his domain... Katr67 (talk) 07:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dick Cavett once had a guest who was a sexologist or something, and when the guy was talking about self-stimulation, Cavett said, "I don't quite grasp that." The censors cut that one. Nowadays they probably wouldn't. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Ryan
Isn't the dads/kids thing a little ... trivial?--Wehwalt (talk) 05:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)--Wehwalt (talk) 05:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do we have an article on the subject of fathers and sons playing major league ball? There have been quite a few of them. The Bonds and the Griffeys are probably the most famous, but there are a number of others. The Smalleys come to mind, and the three generations of Boones. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bill James did a riff on this a while ago, which I'm too lazy to look up now. It did make the point that the Ruths and Roses are pretty high up on the list of hitting families.  And, how about those White Sox against the MFY's? PhGustaf (talk) 05:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of Confucius..
Half Shadow  17:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

[Copied in part from Todd's page]

Gross humor, HO! Half Shadow  17:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember that. That must be why Confucius was on my mind today. I see Todd blocked a guy for calling two different admins "trolls". One I could see. But two? That's crossing the line. Also, did Hubbard actually publish a book with the word "Knowingness" in its title? And did someone actually buy it? He called his philosophy gimmick "Dianetics". In a related story, my father is getting up there in years and takes "Diuretics". This cannot be a coincidence. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What can I say? Codeine makes me even funnier. I'm not sure if I should be worried about that. Also... Half  Shadow  17:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Codeine? Wasn't that the original title of that Eric Clapton song? It just didn't quite have the right ring to it. (Except in his ears.) I see where you thought I was Todd's sockpuppet. That's why I ran for admin, while already having adminship under his account. One can never have too many adminships. :) Unfortunately(?), that ship sank. :( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:55, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that's because you had too many ads. I told you including those billboards was a mistake. Half  Shadow  17:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So what I need to do is start a sock account that engages in totally non-controversial editing and dialogue, and have that sock run for admin. And to further the illusion, my first act as admin would be to block myself for impudence. Good idea. I'll let you know how that works out. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:01, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * J'accuse! Half  Shadow  18:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked in vain for my name there. In artery too. :'( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Entertaining reading ;-)
That IP sock over at User talk:DCGeist... I'm always torn between filing a SPI report and simply breaking out the popcorn and watching it make a fool of itself.

You should be careful, though, because you're obviously "Usa", and no doubt have no Latin skills (I'm not sure why that's an issue, but the sock seems to think that Latin is very important for en.wiki, and that we should all envy its Latin prowess, rather than pity its poor command of English. The sock's IP addresses all resolve to Italy, so I suspect "Latin" here may mean "can just about speak Italian, but can get away with bluffing Latin to an English audience").

I've just filed an ANI report, as SPI seems to be backlogged, so make the most of the entertainment while it lasts ;-)

Cheers, <b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>This flag once was red 14:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm just waiting to see if he ever gets the spelling of Jimbo's name right. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, I hadn't realised that was supposed to be "Jimbo Wales" - I assumed it was some random editor the sock had stumbled across. Just - wow. <b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>This flag once was red 14:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I just made an assumption there. It was the only thing in that random gibberish that kinda seemed to make some sense. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:21, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And by the way, my Latin is excellent: E pluribus unum. Novus ordo seclorum. Semper ubi sub ubi. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Makes sense to me in hindsight, but each time I saw it previously I assumed it was a Korean editor who had had the misfortune of encountering our socky chum. Don't worry about the entertainment going: I reckon it'll return soon enough - there's enough of a backlog at SPI to give us a few days before the rangeblock kicks in...
 * I had a feeling you might have some Latin ;-) Now I have to go and run your last post through a translator so I don't display my ignorance...
 * Cheers, <b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>This flag once was red 14:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dammit, what makes you think I'm going commando?! <b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b>This flag once was red 14:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I had no clue about that. TMI. I was just reporting some random Latin phrases. A variant on that last one could be something like nunquam exire commandium. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Nothing serious
Hi Bugs, thought you might like this quote I have on my user page. It seems to apply to most of the disputes around here.

"And don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven... because it hasn't!" - Bugs Bunny in Hair-Raising Hare (1946) Shinerunner (talk) 10:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You bet! That's along the same lines as the Groucho Marx quote (from where, I don't know): "I've had a wonderful evening. But this wasn't it!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

NPG
In response - Check out the page. As I outlined on Slim Virgin's talk page, the lead is the only actual part of the "page" with the two sections being OR. So, you can discount that and focus on the top paragraphs. The one paragraph is devoted in full to the allegation. Thus, 50% of it would be pure allegation, even if its just allegation. Normally, allegations are stated briefly - "He was alleged to have done ___". Instead, the allegation is given detail in such a manner that suggests it is true. This is potentially damaging. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll take a look at it when I get the chance. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The Babe
In simple English, it looks sily like that. More specfic isn't necessarily a good thing. Baseball cards, All-star balloting, gold gloves, you name it, rarely is the specific outfield position mentioned. Having left and right field listed separately does not make the etry look better or more specific; it makes it look cumbersome. For that matter, if you go to baberuth.com, you would see even there he is listed simply as an outfielder.

I've never been much of a Babe Ruth or Yankees fan, so I don't care enough to reedit it, but you're wrong.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 14:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And I say you're wrong. The way each outfield position is played varies significantly, and I've always found the generic "outfield" to be insufficient on those various items you mention. Retrosheet breaks it down nicely, and that's how things should be listed. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I should again point out that I don't care enough to reedit it. Rickey Henderson's entry says "Left fielder." Being more specific made this entry inaccurrate, as he was the regular centerfielder during his time with the Yankees. Look at Pete Rose's entry. That doesn't look silly to you? We really need to list every infield position? In my opinion, it should simply say: Infield/Outfield/Manager. The infobox sould offer a brief synopsis of a player's career. Likewise, listing left and right field separately on Ruth's entry is stupid. I don't feel like getting into an edit war with you or anyone else over this, but this is my opinion.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 16:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Babe Ruth pretty well split his time between left and right field which means he did NOT play center, and that's significant. Henderson played 6 times as many games in left as in center.  Rose was all over the place.  He could indeed be described as "Infielder/Outfielder", but that doesn't give as much info to the reader. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, the infobox is supposed to be a quick reference; it isn't intended to cover a player's entire career. Splitting left and right field up on Ruth's is too much information, and Henderson played enough of the other outfield positions that his box should read "Outfield" not "Left Field." He was converted to center when he played with the Yankees; calling him a "Left fielder" is plain ol' inaccurrate. And using game situation as reinforcement for your argument is really weak.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You say it's too much info, and I say it's not too much. Maybe you could take it to the Project page and see what others have to say about it. Also, using your approach, we should lump infielders into "Infielder". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Not at all. Keith Hernandez spent his entire career as a first baseman. His infobox should say first baseman as the "specific" description of him is accurate. Likewise, Willie Randolph was a second baseman his entire career; his should say second baseman. Pete Rose, on the other hand, played all over the infield. Rickey Henderson played all three outfield positions; listing him as a left fielder is incomplete (and your game situation argument was silly whether you wanna admit it or not). If the "Wikipedia Gods" want his infobox to say "Left fielder," then let it say left fielder. It's not my website; I don't care if it's wrong.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 21:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

"POV-pushers"
Baseball Bugs, please do not make personal attacks or incivil comments towards other users like you did here. Calling someone a "POV-pusher" is against policy, and users can get blocked if they repeatedly make personal attacks. Please be more careful. Thank you! — Mythdon ( talk  •  contribs ) 06:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:54, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! — Mythdon ( talk  •  contribs ) 06:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He's on a topic ban. As far as being a POV-pusher, I can prove it, if you want. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Third-rate romance, no-rent rendezvous. PhGustaf (talk) 07:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can say that again. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Third-rate romance, no-rent rendezvous. PhGustaf (talk) 07:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can say that again. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Third-rate rendezvous, no-rent romance. Half  Shadow  00:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can say... Hey! We're getting in a rut! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh dear; rutting season already? Half  Shadow  01:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That you can again say! Woo-hoo! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Here are some examples of CoM's idea of NPOV:

Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:18, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't bother, Bugs. CoM is in what we pilots call a "Graveyard Spiral".  Until s/he loosens the controls and lets the plane fly itself, the plane is bound to plummet.  Mocking admins won't help.  PhGustaf (talk) 07:27, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * To think he once ran for admin. Well, maybe ran isn't quite the right term. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:28, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Obama stuff
Hi Baseball Bugs, back in late June (I think) you had said you were voluntarily going to avoid any interaction with ChildofMidnight. As I said at the time in a discussion on my talk page, I thought that was a good idea. But then in a recently closed ANI thread you were making comments like this. Obviously you can comment where you like, but I really think it's best for all concerned if you continued to avoid C of M (and if he did the same for you). When you two start going at it in a noticeboard thread, it tends to distract from the real issues, and quite frankly probably most people reading along are ignoring both of you, so it's not doing much good anyway.

I obviously understand that you have a problem with ChildofMidnight's approach to editing in political topics, but I think your own interests would be best served by avoiding comment on matters relating to that editor. There are more than enough eyes on these issues. This is just friendly (and I think also good) advice. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 02:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

AN/I
Heads up, there is a thread there about you. Protonk (talk) 02:58, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have asked for an Arbcom clarification here of some of the incidents related to this event. - Wikidemon (talk) 05:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Comments
I deleted the offensive comments by the IP on WP:RD/Misc, along with yours as they were obviously unnecessary without the IP's comments. Hope you won't mind, see Wikipedia talk:Reference desk for further discussion. Nil Einne (talk) 10:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Could you please email me? I know you have email disallowed, which means you can't use this, so wikiroux at gmail will reach me. I'd like to have a conversation with you about my proposal without the potential for drama flareups and the ability to be a bit more long-winded. → ROUX   ₪  03:36, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Interaction restricted
As discussed here (and more so in the sub-section that follows) and per community consensus, your own agreement, and the conditions of Obama article probation, a restriction has been placed on your interaction with User:ChildofMidnight, and vice-versa. That restriction is as follows:


 * Until further notice, Baseball Bugs and ChildofMidnight are restricted from commenting on, about, or to each other anywhere on Wikipedia, apart from ArbCom proceedings where both are named parties. Failure to abide by this restriction will result in 24 hour blocks, escalating to lengthier blocks if the violations continue.

I'd like to add, per comments you made on ANI, that this does not really restrict your article contributions, unless of course you choose to stay away from certain areas. You have sworn off of the Obama articles, but you are still welcome to edit there, particularly as ChildofMidnight is topic banned from that area for a few months. Obviously, and not that you would have done this, you ought not follow ChildofMidnight to articles, but if you happen to edit the same article, or make a comment in the same discussion, that is not verboten. You simply cannot interact with one another directly or talk about one another, which hopefully will end up being a good thing for both parties. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 04:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Please note that this restriction does not fall under Obama probation, so any appeals may not be granted by Bigtimepeace - they'd require a community consensus or ArbCom intervention. Should you believe that this restriction should not have been imposed even as a formal (ordinary) community sanction, and you have a legitimate reason for this belief, you have an opportunity to dispute this while the discussion is still open. Ncmvocalist (talk) 07:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Will you do the honors?
User_talk:174.3.103.39 wants reasoning for reviewing admins. You're likely more familiar with the issue than myself, plus I can't actually do the review. Cheers, <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#6600CC">Nja <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#63D1F4">247 12:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He was posting spamlinks and other bizarre, useless stuff. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:45, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, no I meant to put a bit on the talk page telling them why you reported him, ie the adding of ridiculous things at the reference desk. If not I'll get to it later but I'm literally out the door. Thanks. <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#6600CC">Nja <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#63D1F4">247 12:48, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I posted a short and sweet message there. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And the unblock was declined. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:03, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I knew it would be, and thanks. I had to go and of course as usual in the time it took me to ask you I could have done it. I just thought there was more of a history to it. Thanks again. <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#6600CC">Nja <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#63D1F4">247 13:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Bugs, I think you really have the wrong end of the stick with this topicban, and it's probably my fault for not explaining clearly enough. I would much rather have done this via email, but for some reason you would consider a reply from me spam. So here goes. There are deep and significant problems with much of CoM's editing, agreed, especially with his (ahem) idiosyncratic interpretations of the topicban he is under. Those problems and those topicban violations need to be addressed. There is no question of that. Unfortunately, when you are the one addressing them, CoM shows up on schedule to complain about harassment (undeservedly, IMHO) and very quickly the discussion is generating far more heat than light, and the focus swings towards discussing the interaction between the two of you, and not the actual problem at play. Someone less charitable than me could believe this is a deliberate ploy by CoM, and I firmly agree with you that CoM is careening towards a community or ArbCom permaban from the site. On purpose or not, I couldn't say, but the trajectory is well underway and has been since his first edit.

And so we come to the problem: CoM acts poorly, you call him on it, discussion gets derailed. The root problem here is CoM's behaviour, and it's hard to examine that when other issues muddy the waters. So the topicban is intended solely to clear the waters so that other parties can deal with the root problem without distraction. There really is nothing else going on here; I respect your contributions to the site and I find you a hilariously funny person. You're a classic Fool in the sense that only the Fool may speak truth to the king. And I have to stop now, my monitor just blew a gasket of some sort so I can't actually see what I'm typing. Apologies if there are errors. → ROUX   ₪  15:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Reference desks
Hi. I'd like to suggest that you take it a bit more seriously on the reference desks = specifically in terms of meta discussion, and posting stuff that mostly relates to you and not really to the original question. Remember they are not forums, or discussion hosting. I know that you are acting in good faith - but some of the questions are getting seriously off-topic.HappyUR (talk) 22:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Roger. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, silly questions deserve silly answers, and Bugs is as good as anyone I know with silliness in all its forms. Better to make dumb threads funny than to just let them dry out. PhGustaf (talk) 23:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Silly R Us. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:29, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Reference desk/Humanities
You probably ought to put a notice on the User's Talk page. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 07:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Good show. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 07:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks good to me, though if he continues, a block may be in order. For 3RR, if nothing else. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 08:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Note on editing restriction
Note on editing restriction

The admins who imposed this rule are unwilling to enforce it. I'm going to have to try to stop editing for awhile and decide whether wikipedia is worth my time anymore. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Modest Proposal
The editor you've been in recent conflict with is on a course to auger in, or enter a graveyard spiral, or otherwise buy the farm. In any case, plummet. My choice is to just watch. Unless I find something really clever to say, which is quite possible. My leash for cleverness is a bit longer than yours at the moment, though. Holing up for a while is your best course. Man, the Red Sox have sucked lately. PhGustaf (talk) 22:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Delete Talk:George Washington: British Traitor
It's an irrelavent topic, it wouldn't even make a sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwertyfish11 (talk • contribs) 23:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Ohhhh geesh ...
I go for a little humor for a change, and you get all "official" and "technical" on me ... lol. ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 15:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spoilsports R Us. >:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * LMAO ... I see the "evil twin" has control of the keyboard today. ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 15:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

could I talk you into doing a "copyedit" on a NASCAR page Bugs? — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 07:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I could try, though it's getting a bit late tonight to be doing it. First, perhaps you could indef the harassment-only account, since the admin at WP:AIV doesn't know the story and is hesitant to do it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd be happy to take a look. I'll drop you a link tomorrow on the article ... brb (be right back) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  07:53, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm ... well, I'm definitely concerned about the user name. Only 3 edits at the moment, but I've put it on my watchlist.  I'll keep an eye on this, and if I see anything blockable - I will do the dirty work.  Sleep well, take care, and I'll talk to you tomorrow my friend. ;) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  07:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not likely coming back. We just need to make sure of it. It's counterpart has no edits because they were blocked. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

An Idea
You know this has probably already been proposed somewhere, but what about getting a Wikipedia car in nascar? It would be open to tinkering to anyone registered (no anons) :). Soxwon (talk) 17:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Could be fun. But do note that NASCAR vehicles are governed by a ridiculously complicated set of rules that mostly assure that he who cheats best wins.  I'm not sure whether that's feature or a bug.  PhGustaf (talk) 18:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, could we get a missile launcher mounted and call it a "rollback?" Soxwon (talk) 18:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "He who cheats best, wins". And that differs from wikipedia how...? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or if someone else won, we would withhold the award until there was a verifiable source. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It differs b/c we call cheating Arbcom here. Soxwon (talk) 18:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Combine the two: NASCARBCOM. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Even the most patient and beer-soaked redneck would get bored by a car race after the first three months. PhGustaf (talk) 19:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know about that. Consider that you're talking about a sport where Petty is King. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But it would drama to the races and make the Arbcom process more exciting (we could run admins into the wall at 150 miles an hour). Soxwon (talk) 19:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia On Wheels?.....you may not be the first to think of it.... Fribbler (talk) 15:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm making a report to WP:SPI. You must be him! ROTFL! :) Nicely done Fribbler :) --Hammersoft (talk) 15:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Your Wikiquette alerts edit
This edit may be a violation of your new editing restriction because it comments on a point made in that discussion by someone you are not supposed to interact with. If I were you, I would probably play it safe by deleting my comment and staying away from that part of the thread, and that particular line of argument... if not from the report overall. Please note my comments on the matter of editor-avoidance here. Your block log is clean, so let's keep it that way. Please be careful. - Wikidemon (talk) 18:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That wasn't my intent, but I zapped it since my opinions are not heeded anyway. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry.

I am very angry about Mind Siege. I AM VERY ANGRY!

I am very worried and concerned about the book. That's one reason I was writing all that.

But should I be worried or concerned about it? If not, then why not? How much should I be worried or concerned about it?

What should I do?

Bowei Huang (talk) 05:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

comments welcome
tedder (talk) 16:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * User talk:Tedder
 * Replied there. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 18:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Need an explanation...
...of the various uses of "Plaxico" now. I assume they stem from the infamous incident, but I need an index or something of its uses in conversation.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  19:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I use "Plaxico" as shorthand for "shooting yourself in the foot" (or leg, actually), typically when someone goes to WP/ANI with a complaint and ends up getting blocked themselves. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * hah. Fwiw, WP:PLAXICO used to redirect to Complaints are not taken at face value. tedder (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, an appropriate usage. I especially find it interested when it happens at 3RRN.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  20:24, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I can't believe Smashville created that redirect. He should've known better. No way was that going to stick, but mildly humorous nonetheless.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  20:24, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see what the issue is. A redirect is just a redirect, it's not an article. It's true that it usually involves the "not face value" essay. Often I've seen a complainant protest when the scrutiny turns toward him. Usually they're protesting due to a guilty conscience. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:55, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Redirects can be damaging as well. Like when people's names get redirected to Pedophilia.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  21:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, yeh. Where Plaxico is concerned I suppose someone's worried about a BLP violation, even though the real Plaxico might be headed for the slammer, so BLP violations are the least of his worries. But that's why I normally put "Plaxico" in quotes nowadays when I use it that way. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Certainly a perplexing sit-che-a-shun. — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ? 13:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It remains to be seen if the Plaxico story has legs, or if it was just a one-shot deal. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:10, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Aghhhh ... I've been outdone by the master. Ched concedes "Game, Set, and Match" ;-) — Ched : <font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;"> ?  15:58, 15 August 2009 (UTC) Note:  My dog gave me some really strange looks for laughing my fool ass off at a computer screen.

FYI
User talk:Basebal Bugs Toddst1 (talk) 12:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And just think, you've got enough crazies following you, we don't even know if that's Liebman or what!  Wknight94  <sup style="color: blue;">talk  13:17, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably it's "or what". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Reply
Here you said User_talk:174.3.103.39 "You were reported for doing the same stuff that got you blocked the last time. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)". Where was I reported ? .174.3.103.39 (talk) 16:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

You agreed to the mediation decision. You can't possibly complain about it.174.3.103.39 (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, wrong picture. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:44, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Spam
What is your definition of spam. Where is this in Wikipedia namespace?174.3.103.39 (talk) 18:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's an economical smoked-meat product, quite beloved by Hawaiians, who make it into a fusion dish often called sushi, but more precisely called musubi. PhGustaf (talk) 21:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, Spam sushi. Sounds awesome. Not to be outdone, I think Hormel should produce a new line of Spam made from Lutefisk. Since "spam" came from "spiced ham", maybe this product would be called "splisk", or something equally appealing. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Re:Note
I had no idea that was the case!!! The user's contributions all seemed to be good. Thanks for letting me know - I have re-blocked the user. Best,  F ASTILY  (T ALK ) 07:39, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh AN/I master....
I'm not sure of this one. Smells like a sockpuppet (5th edit involved a lot of things a new editor isn't likely to know and a lot of information that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere). Think I should pursue it? Soxwon (talk) 20:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Aw, Caden's cute.
Thinking I actually care and junk. Whose turn was it again? Half Shadow  23:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What is wrong with you man? This isn't a game dude. If you can't act like a mature human being then I suggest you stay off that ANI. Grow up.  Caden  cool  23:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Halfshadow, not okay. You're baiting Caden, so consider yourself warned. → ROUX   ₪  23:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't talking to Caden, Stimpy. Not talking to you, either. My point was (not as if it's any of your business) is that I don't care about his backstory, or what have you. Seems to me as though Caden's looking for things to bitch about. Perhaps you could give him a hug? Half  Shadow  23:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Stimpy? Seriously? This is how you're going to behave? Stop baiting Caden, stop insulting other users, and stop thinking that on a public website you get to have a private conversation in full view. If you want a private conversation, take it to email. So now you've been warned for baiting Caden and warned for insulting me. Yes, I know who Stimpy is, and don't make the mistake of thinking I'm so stupid that I don't know how you intended it. The next stop will be an admin to block you to prevent this from occurring any further, so I strongly advise that you stop now. → ROUX   ₪  23:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Aw, that's adorable. What's next, you gonna punch your monitor? Half  Shadow  23:57, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, if that's how you're going to be, see this section on An/I, dealing with your behaviour. → ROUX   ₪  00:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep fighting the good fight. Or whatever it is you think you're doing. Me, I have work to do. Half  Shadow  00:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Cute" gets complicated. On a bad day, with enough gin in me, I could do Orly Taitz. 00:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Any mail for me while I was gone? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a few posts from Roux. Either that or my dog farting. I always get those confused. Half  Shadow  01:50, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, now that I think about it, that's sort of scary, seeing as my dog died a year ago. Half  Shadow  01:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Re:
This was about a day or two after the whole Grandma Dottie, et al. fiasco, so it wouldn't surprise me to find these linked. — BQZip01 — talk 17:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Ref desk
I suppose I should ask - do you know. (maybe your kid brother or something)?

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk, if it's a problem please mention there. It's not clear to me whether to just ignore or not...83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

your AIV report
That IP, 174..., that you just reported to AIV, has definitely left some bizarre comments on the Reference Desk pages. But I also see that most of his edits to actual articles have not been reverted, and looking at them, they appear to be constructive. I think it's possible that there may be 2 people using that IP, and if so, perhaps it should not be blocked. What do you think about the recent edits? Academic Challenger (talk) 04:22, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, go ahead and revert any personal harassment against yourself. Would you take a look at his other edits too though? It's possible that they are disruptive in some way that I didn't notice. If the IP is only used by one person, they probably would be. Academic Challenger (talk) 04:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I saw that, and I was thinking of blocking him too at that point, but hesitated because someone decided to give the IP another warning. I agree that it needs to be blocked. If someone keeps asking what they did wrong, someone should explain because it could be a legitimate user asking the question, but we definitely shouldn't unblock, and we should go through all of that IP's edits. Academic Challenger (talk) 05:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:BabeRuth19321001.JPG)
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Orphaned non-free media (File:IsThisHeavenIowa2.JPG)
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You are inhabited by a droll fellow
Just wanted to let you know that this gave me a drawn out chuckle. :)

Oh schwootles, here's the barnstar.

How have you been doing? Not been around for a while, was meaning to drop in and say hi anyway. :) <font face="Trebuchet MS">— <font color="#5A3696">neuro <font color="#5A3696">(talk) 12:22, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * G'day! The obvious punch line to that Roto Rooter comment would be the obvious reference to any vandal (which I am not claiming Acme is, so I didn't post this) once indef'd: "...and away go troubles, down the drain!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You of all people must be aware of the unreliability (or perhaps reliable failure) of Acme artifacts of any sort. PhGustaf (talk) 20:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. That's why Road Runner is a major stockholder. Acme products sell like hotcakes. And they flop like... well, like hotcakes. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Now that's patently unfair. Our company cannot be held responsible for the method Mr. Coyote chooses to use our products. After all, if you buy a hammer and use it to nail something, you have a well-nailed board or other item. If you instead choose to throw that hammer at someone, is that the fault of the company that makes the hammer? If our products are used in the method they were designed for they are efficient, safe and best of all inexpensive compared to our competitors. When used in the method Mr Coyote chooses to, they are, at best, not. Frankly, the only reason we continue to sell to him is because A) He's one of our top customers, often buying massive bulk orders B) What he chooses to do with our product is, frankly, his business and C) He pays his bills on time. Half  Shadow  21:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah, well; you know how it is with IPs.
They pee in the pool, we pee on them, yada yada... Half Shadow  18:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hence the old expression, IPonU. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it's your sort of thing,
... but hey.


 * I'm not familiar with the tunes you specified. But I really do like white noise when I'm focused on something. Reminds me of the days of working in the computer room. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd be surprised if you were, but only slightly. It's from a site called . It's a videogame music remix site. Half  Shadow  03:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. I don't do video games. They lost me after Space Invaders. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Miranda
I was going to contact you about this article since you participated in the last semi-consensus about her nationality, but since I loathe idiotic nationality arguments, I decided not to even open the can of worms. I guess now I'll just bite the bullet and restore the original wording and if need be, start a RfC about the matter if the "new" user pops up again (oh joy!). Of course, I am risking the entire population of Portugal being outraged at me! Ah well...that's why I make the big bucks.  Pinkadelica <sup style="color:black;">♣  05:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw that. This is getting olllld.  Pinkadelica <sup style="color:black;">♣  08:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I was following that, I thought I'd pop in and revert once for you all. Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm more of a actor buff than a film buff, but I have my moments, though they tend toward the classic era films than more recent. Young Frankenstein is one of my favorite films. One of my two good articles is actually Gene Wilder. I don't know about Carmen Miranda's headpiece but I can research it if you like. And by the way, since when does Pinkadelica get big bucks for here and where can I sign up? Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you really work hard, you could make double his salary here. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought it would help the 3RR people if an actual 3RR warning was posted on the editor's talk page, FWIW. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

No contact
Thanks. Because I'm dim, could you give me a link to it? Steve Smith (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. And yeah, I know about the Mythdon/Ryulong history.  Looked into the case pretty thoroughly before blocking Mythdon. Steve Smith (talk) 23:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah...
Righto. Will remember that for next time. Alan16 (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Picture line-up
Please look closely at these faces, Mr. Bugs, and tell us if any of them seem familiar at all to you. Do you recognize any of these characters? Would you be prepared to identify them under oath in open court? —— Shakescene (talk) 21:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Those mugs do look familiar. That one in the upper left looks especially shady. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 04:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

לא הבנתי- wat sê jy? Doo Bilagáana bizaad yáníłti' daásh?
Hebrew: I didn't get that... Afrikaans: What are you saying? Navajo: [what d'ya mean] you don't speak English? .... ;) Seb az86556 (talk) 03:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Auld Lang Syne
That may be, but different accents have different ways of saying the same thing and this addition is uncited. It's not for an Wikipedia editor to decide what's an mispronunciation, what constitutes "often" and what is correct. The IPA pronunciation simply states what the pronunciation in Scotland is. You may call this "official", but it doesn't make others incorrect. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 15:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

You stink


Excellent work as always. :) <font face="Trebuchet MS">— <font color="#5A3696">neuro <font color="#5A3696">(talk) 16:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I just realised it was a renderer error. Now I look like a fool. :(


 * My assertion that you stink still stands! <font face="Trebuchet MS">— <font color="#5A3696">neuro <font color="#5A3696">(talk) 16:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It looks like gibberish on my old PC. And I'll have you know I showered recently. By "recently", I mean I can remember when I last showered. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

They've proven the Invisible Man worked for Hitler.
The man was clearly a 'not-see' so... Half Shadow  22:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And as them Nasties used to say to their naive followers: "See guile!" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you realize that the word "gullible" is not in most dictionaries? PhGustaf (talk) 03:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Neither, coincidentally enough is 'PhGustaf'. Hey, does this mean you don't exist? Half  Shadow  03:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He's the Urban Spaceman. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:10, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Luckily, the term is preserved in Swift's work, Gullible's Travels. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A Swift cash-grab? Half  Shadow  03:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And this is why this is the most entertaining page on wikipedia :). Soxwon (talk) 01:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What, more entertaining than WP:ANI, otherwise known as "As the Wiki Turns"??? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the plot is so unbelievable... Soxwon (talk) 02:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As opposed to this page, where everything makes sense, ja? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but we don't pretend it does. Half  Shadow  02:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I thought this page kinda made sense, until Neurolysis posted that odd bit of signage that looks bizarre even on my good PC. It's been downhill since then. :( Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * So this is Neurolysis' fault then. You bastard naughty person, Neurolysis! *Shakes fist menacingly* Half  Shadow  02:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've a good mind to take severe action. On my next flight to the UK, I'm going to track him down to his home address, ring his doorbell, and run away while laughing hideously, leaving him only with a puzzled look, and a DVD containing the collected works of Billy Mays in his mailbox. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You wanted to know why I'm so "fascinated" with The Big Snooze,right? Well,I'm on my second tape,which features the cartoon. I'm amused,at the length Bugs' creator went,to show that no matter what..if something offended Bugs,he would get even,in a non-violent way,often turning the tables,on a perceived tormentor,like..Elmer,who hunted the "wabbit",just to have something to occupy his..Elmer's..time —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silvershrek (talk • contribs) 16:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Email
Well...I was going to email you, but you don't seem to have one emailed. Is there any chance that you could turn it on? Thanks, <b style="color:navy;">NW</b> ( Talk ) 01:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Sinners
It may well be "standard Christian doctrine". I wouldn't know, not being one. Neither are many other of the Ref Desk readers. To make such a claim as if we all both knew what you meant and accepted the doctrine is not, I think, appropriate for the Ref Desk. Perhaps if you preface such a remark with "Christians believe" or put the words in quotes so we know it is not your personal assessment, you are less likely to get a personal response. Thanks for considering another point of view. // BL \\ (talk) 02:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Better the entire section should be closed, as it's a misuse of the reference desk. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with you completely on this specific case. I would be grateful, though, if you might remember that not all of us are Christians, or accept the Christian doctrine, or even know the Christian doctrine, the next time you are tempted to brand us with a Christian view of our nature. Thanks, // BL \\ (talk) 02:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of religion, everyone does things that are "wrong" from time to time. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If by wrong, you mean we have all made mistakes, I agree with you. However, I cannot imagine a creed that goes so far as to brand a mistake as a sin. Or perhaps they do. Nonetheless, only believers can be classified as sinners by definition without the risk of giving offense. I am not, truly, arguing your belief system or anyone else's, but I am suggesting that categorizing others in accordance with a system you have no way of knowing that they share, is not, in my view, appropriate for the Ref Desk. So, you say I am a sinner and I say I am not, and I do not accept that you have any right to label me as one. Now, if you want to call me someone who makes a lot of mistakes, I would have to just sit back and count the errors of my ways. Anyone have a calculator handy? :-) // BL \\ (talk) 03:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I recall one time when I thought I had done something wrong. I rechecked and discovered I was wrong about being wrong. So it goes. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:21, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, wow...
...do I remember that one as well! Nothing like a late-night trip down Memory Lane. That Gulf commercial is a very recent posting; when I first wrote the article, all I could find on YouTube were a tribute video with lousy audio and a still shot of the Clancy Brothers with the song (and far better audio) playing in the background. I watched that new commercial all the way through. It's the real deal from what I can gather and it ends with the Gulf logo flashed over the "stinger" at the end of the song. The sound, however, is a bit better in the version with the still video. Thanks for the memories, bro! :) --PMDrive1061 (talk) 06:47, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Great catch!
That is a commercial I remember well and fondly so. It was just plain fun and the production values stand up even today. And yes...I saw ol' Johnny toward the beginning of the spot! Saw some other familiar faces who seemed to be on a lot of ads back in the day. Gawd, I could spend hours on YouTube finding gems like this. The current crop of McD ads just don't compare; the cost today of duplicating that ad would be out of sight. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 07:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm so sorry...
Bugs, I'm so sorry. I just got home and noticed your message, and in my head I was thinking "What on earth is he talking about?" Then I remembered checking my watchlist on my phone a few minutes ago... I must have somehow managed to accidentally click undo, and for that I am so sorry. It wasn't intentional at all, and not I'm horrified to check my watchlist on my phone ever again. I really am sorry, and I'm going to go bang my head against the wall now for what was the biggest clusteryouknowwhat of a Monday in my wikiexistence. user: J  aka justen (talk) 02:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Portland Demography
You are invited to add to my comments YBG (talk) 07:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

What's your problem?
What's your problem? There's nothing wrong with substituting "black" for "African American". There's no rule in Wikipedia saying I can't do that. It's not vandalism.

Cool Stuff Is Cool (talk) 07:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)Cool Stuff Is CoolCool Stuff Is Cool (talk) 07:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You have to guess. If you guess wrong three times, you get locked in the 'penalty cage' and lose all your prizes, so make your guesses good ones. Half  Shadow  17:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't we just say the hell with blacks and go right back to calling them n*****s? (And while we're at it, how come no one ever does blackface anymore? I thought those portrayals were hilrious...) Soxwon (talk) 05:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

FYI
I've made this edit :) hydnjo (talk) 11:57, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever. As long as you don't try to sell me stuff. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Here we go again...
Same old stuff again... MuZemike 01:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Please can you lay off adding irrelevent answers to questions please. eg see

I assume that you know that the answer you gave has nothing to do with the question?83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:32, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * C'mon 83. We're supposed to Assume Good Will here.  PhGustaf (talk) 13:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And I disagree that it's irrelevant. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aren't we supposed to be hunting for good will or something like that? MuZemike 16:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That was going to be my next "See also". :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Moon rock from Apollo 11 is a fake‏?
Wait until the nutcases get a hold of this one: Fake Dutch 'moon rock' revealed User:A Quest For Knowledge 16:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a good thing I've stopped watching to moon hoax articles. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So did I, once it became obvious that the moon rocks were from Kenya. PhGustaf (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe somebody stole the real one. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * DAMN YOU, CARMEN SANDIEGO!!! Half  Shadow  18:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe this was just a little joke perpetrated by Von Braun. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The moon is grey. You would think who ever made this could have at least painted it the right color. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure all the individual rocks are grey. But someone needs to look into this. I think somebody pulled a switcheroo, possibly decades ago, and no one caught it until now. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I know some lunar soil is orange. BTW, you had it easy on the moon landing hoax page. Try dealing with the Troofers.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Help Desk
Requested articles is what you were trying to recall from your dreams! --Stephen 23:12, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

ChildofMidnight topic banned
As a party to the Obama articles arbitration case, you are notified as a courtesy of this amendment to the final decision.

By motion of the Committee at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification,

Discussion of this motion should be directed here.

For the Arbitration Committee, AGK 12:53, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

What'd you do?
I hope you don't mind me asking this, but what did you do to piss off the user(s) who keeps picking on you? Dismas |(talk) 03:29, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They're jealous of my high intelligence, good looks, and Swiss bank account. And most of all, my humility. 0:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Riiiiight. ;-)  Dismas |(talk) 12:58, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

*sigh*
Another one goes over the cliff. And I was honestly trying to help him... Soxwon (talk) 01:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Likewise, although I was about ready to give up. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not, I think he could still make valuable contributions. Soxwon (talk) 02:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * After some reflection, I'm inclined to agree. We'll see. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Enough!
This is a general warning to all participants. No more editing at User talk:Declan Davis. Leave the issue alone until the next daytime for this editor, which will be (presuming that this account's autobiography is true) not before at least 08:00 UTC (09:00 xyr local time). This excludes reversions of disruptive vandalism. And that I strongly suggest be left to the administrators who have already been quietly RBIing this particular vandal across several accounts and pages. Blocks will be handed out to enforce calm, and will be timed to expire no sooner than 12:00 UTC. Uncle G (talk) 02:37, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Get out your schadenfreude hat
Your name is mentioned at, although you are not an official party to the matter. PhGustaf (talk) 16:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. I'm under restrictions, so I can't comment on it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:37, 31 August 2009 (UTC)