User talk:Baseballclarity

Please stop adding flags to mlb roster pages. They do not belong. Thank you. Blahblah32blahblah (talk) 04:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I appreciate the effort put into editing and maintaining roster pages. It was no attempt to vandalize or anything. I've just always found it odd how nearly all other team pages, weather it is Indian Premiere League, NHL, EPL, La Liga, all have their players' birth nation identified. However, if there is an implicit reason for not having them posted on MLB rosters, I'd appreciate having that reason identified.


 * If it is an issue of incorrect information, I referred to baseball-reference.com to confirm the information. I'd hope you'd reconsider because I think it does add to the brand of baseball MLB provides and I've seen comments added before asking why the flags have been removed in the past. Instead, we'd have to result to individually looking at each player's profile.


 * Again, I hope you would reconsider because currently 50 percent of minor league players are foreign born and having the increased representation of foreign players identified would be beneficial, especially considering MLB's intent to move forward with a larger and more talented World Baseball Classic in 2013. This was just a subtle way of keeping tabs on the strengths of each baseball playing country, much like the world soccer community keep tabs on how their players are progressing.


 * However, I will defer to you. If you say you won't allow it. I will make no further attempts to edit. Baseballclarity (talk) 22:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not that they aren't useful, it's just that it will be hard to keep them up to date with the IP editing and people who don't know what they are doing. Also with 40 players on a roster and the many transactions in Spring Training and the regular season the flags will get lost in the shuffle. Plus there are only three countries (USA, Dominican Republic and Japan) that really have great baseball players. The other countries have minority/immigration issues.  Osi  tadinma  14:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The real issue is what do the flags stand for? Place of Birth? Nationality? Country represented in international play? For many players that could mean multiple countries, which makes the purpose of the flag very confusing (and pointless). Blahblah32blahblah (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Would probably mean place of birth on the MLB rosters, but I see how it can be confusing with A-Rod and R. Ibanez both being born in the US, when some people might think otherwise.  Osi  tadinma  15:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Birthplace should be the standard. It would get confusing if we adopted the World Baseball Classic's standard of eligibility which entailed if your parent was born somewhere then you could place for that place.


 * Most foreign born players obtain U.S. citizenship just as South American soccer players obtain citizenship in Europe. It does given them eligibility to play on the national team of those European countries, some do, specifically Brazilians who play for Portugal because they can't make the Brazilian team. This doesn't seem too difficult, the birth nation should be identified unless the player has made public their intent to play for a country they are now a citizen of. Citizenship just isn't workable nor is it public.


 * The main issue is that there are about three MLB players who were born in West Germany. The issue here is that they aren't German but Americans who were born on U.S. bases. I think then birthplace can be overruled if information is found that they were born under such circumstances.


 * A case would be Justin Masterson who is American but was born in Jamaica while his parents were doing missionary work there.


 * Also, there are more than just great players from the Dominican Republic, Japan, and the United States. Miguel Cabrera was born in Venezuela, as was Johan Santana and Felix Hernandez. Marino Rivera and Carlos Lee were born in Panama, Andruw Jones and Jair Jurrjens were born in the Netherlands, specifically the Dutch territory of Curacao. Jason Bay and Justin Morneau were born in Canada. The list goes on with quality players from Nicaragua, Cuba, Colombia, Australia, Mexico, Taiwan, South Korea. And just look at the minor league system to see in what direction baseball is heading.


 * This issue is in no way clear cut, but it is workable. Once the method is worked out, it can be done once the regular season has started and the rosters are set. On wikipedia, even NBA teams have their places of birth listed and there are several teams that have only American born players and at best a team will have four foreign born players. You won't find an MLB team without any foreign born players. Baseballclarity (talk) 16:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

You see this is how it gets confusing, the examples that I and you have brought up. Bring to to WT:MLB to get a consenus, I for one don't really care for either way.

And the three countries I listed have the most well-known and most talented players. Other countries do too, but just limited in the quality/quantity pool.  Osi  tadinma  17:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't go so far as to say it is confusing. There are a few players where it is ambiguous, but nothing that can't be decided upon so there is a consistency and understanding to it.


 * And yes you did name those three countries, Japan is a great baseball country but most of their talent is back in Japan still. I only brought it up because there are countries with more talent in MLB than Japan. Dominican Republic is second to U.S. born players, but Venezuela and Puerto Rico are right up there in terms of talent and quantity. Baseballclarity (talk) 17:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I said, bring it up with the MLB project to get a wide consenus of whether to have the flags or not.


 * Another example, Craig Stansberry who was born in Saudi Arabia.  Osi  tadinma  17:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't feel overwhelming strong about it where I'd take it to MLB project. Like I said outright, I was looking for the otherside of the argument that doesn't want the flags. But yes, Craig Stansberry is a similar to the West German born players. There could always be a note made that players are listed according to their birthplace. (Baseballclarity (talk) 18:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC))


 * Me either, but if you decide to add the flags you have to bring it up with the MLB project since it is a radical change.  Osi  tadinma  18:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * What about minor league pages, specifically the Gulf Coast league which has an overwhelming amount of foreign born players? Just going through the rosters listed at MiLB.com, I'm hard pressed to find players born in America. (Baseballclarity (talk) 18:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC))

No, it has to be consisent, either all of MiLB or none.  Osi  tadinma  18:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

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