User talk:Bcp67/archive

Tony McCoy / A. P. McCoy
As a regular contributor to horse racing articles, please could you register a vote at Talk:A. P. McCoy as to which title you prefer - "Tony McCoy" or "A. P. McCoy". The vote closes at 12pm GMT on January 1st 2007. Thanks -- Zafonic 20:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

UK Classic Races
I dislike it too and first changed it to "British Classic Races" to be consistent with the newly created British flat racing Champion Sire /Jockey/Apprentice/Trainer/Owner articles. However, elsewhere at Wiki you find where people have been adamant that the only proper name is "United Kingdom". I personally have no preference but want to be consistent with naming conventions. Also, I would have to think that there are Welsh and Scot trainers/jockeys/owners/fans etc. who don't want to call it "English" as it is their Classic Race(s) too. Also, the Triple Crown is referred to here at Wiki as the U.K. Triple Crown so our infobox should be consistent and not say that a horse was:
 * a U.K. Triple Crown Winner
 * an English Classic race winner
 * a British Champion Sire

As I'm not from the U.K., I don't think I should comment on what is the proper name. Perhaps this should be discussed by those knowledgeable and a policy arrived at for one consistent name to be used here to describe all. Handicapper 14:47, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. - I just remembered too that all the Categorys say "United Kingdom Racehorses/Racehorses Bred in the United Kingdom, Racehorses trained in the United Kingom/Horseracing in the United Kingdom and so on. Handicapper 16:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanx - I'll leave a message for User:Zafonic regarding the British flat racing Champion Sire (and others) he created. I actually prefer the "British" designation because it is easy and compact for writing at Wikipedia but will leave it up to others to decide what is right. Handicapper 14:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Nijinsky II
You might be interested in my comments at Talk:Nijinsky II regarding Find A Grave. Handicapper 15:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Criterion Stakes
I've added a reference to the Criterion Stakes article. These "unreferenced" tags can be a bit of a nuisance, but I suppose we sometimes have to show that we're not just making it all up! -- Zafonic 20:46, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Wiki sorting
According to Wikipedia for sorting purposes all surnames staring with Mc, O', etc. should be sorted as Mac or O for sorting purposes; i.e. McGuinness becomes Macguinness, McCoy becomes Maccoy and Eugene O'Neill is Eugene Oneill. See Martin McGuinness' edit page for yourself/yourselves for note from sorter.

Yours,

216.194.0.167 20:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Gary Moore
I think you're right about Mr Moore - but you really ought to be telling Handicapper, not me! -- Zafonic 19:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I found his middle initial and changed it to Gary L. Moore on his two sons. Handicapper 15:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Handicapper 14:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Have to admit that I knew almost nothing about Abernant but was much impressed when I read some on him. Please edit, add to, or delete from, any article that I create. Handicapper 15:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Winners since...
There is no reason why the winners lists can't begin earlier than 1988, although some of the details from further back might be harder to find, such as winning times and the full names of obscure trainers/jockeys.

The lists have evolved quite a bit over time, and I expect they will continue to do so. Last year I pushed the starting point of most existing lists back to 1988 (thanks to the Racing Post), before which they generally began at 2000. Already certain French and Irish classics have receded to 1970 and other big races will probably follow. -- Zafonic 18:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Rokeby Stables
Thanxs, but I'm aware of it as I'm the one who inserted the info in the Michael Tabor article you referred to. The Rokeby article will shortly read Atlantic and English Channel (France/England) or whatever terminology. I believe Rokeby/Mellon is the only one to win the Kentucky Derby, Epsom D, and Arc but I left it unfinished as I wasn't 100% sure he is the only one and wanted to check info on possible UK Classic race wins by Rex C. Ellsworth. I'm preparing a bio on the controversial Ellsworth who won the Kentucky Derby and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. Ellsworth isn't on any of the Wikipedia owners list for the UK Classics but it's possible he is under a stable name. Or, he may have been the breeder but not owner of a UK Classic winner. Thanx again. I certainly appreciate someone double-checking my work as accuracy is essential. Anytime you see a mistake, please change it. Handicapper 16:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

John Reid
I made a few minor adjustments to your article on John Reid to follow Wikipedia's format standards for name/birth/place etc. (We are global internet, so identifying someone by "country" is important.) Also, note that if you want, you can use Template:Horseracing personalities infobox for these biographies. Thanx. Handicapper 14:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I clicked on you instead of the article creator who it seems isn't contributing here anymore anyway. Handicapper 19:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Bruce Hobbs - I think he is a British jockey only who was born in the U.S. Perhaps do an Infobox for him which shows his place of birth but change the first line to say "British", not "American". Handicapper 13:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a side note. The article for Battleship (horse) shows the trainer as "Reg Hobbs". Is it a nickname or father, perhaps, or coincidence? If so, it should be mentioned in his bio. Handicapper 13:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

New Jockey category
I made a new Category "Jockeys killed while racing" so if you know any in the UK, France, etc. that fit. Because its realtively small, I think one category is probaby enough but if you wish, divide them by country. Handicapper 16:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Horse racing edits
I'm sorry to see Zafonic is no longer editing, he was a valued contributor. I only hope it is a matter of choice and not health or other such problems. We need and appreciate your contributions to European racing so you might note that 293.xx.xxx.xx and Galopin have created the Template:Horseraces infobox. I've started inserting it but I really know very little about English racing so haven't attempted a Box for the United Kingdom Classic Races. If you like, please go ahead with these. Thanx. Handicapper 13:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Perhaps "Trivia" is the wrong word - "Historical notes" is a fair alternative, or maybe "Champion Hurdle facts". Feel free to change it if you want to. -- Zafonic 08:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Sortable tables
Some genius came up with a great idea. Go to Epsom Derby and look at the table. It is sortable by column! Handicapper 15:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Epsom Downs
This article should definitely be moved to "Epsom Downs Racecourse" - amongst the many links to the page there are several which have nothing to do with horse racing. After amending the relevant links to the new title, the re-direct from the old title would have to be replaced with something about the place Epsom Downs. I'm not sure if I could write much about this beyond a very short stub. -- Zafonic 20:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Categories
Handicapper and I have been discussing possible titles for a new set of categories for Classic winning jockeys and trainers. We've come up with the following: What do you think? -- Zafonic 19:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:British Classic winning jockeys
 * Category:British Classic winning trainers
 * Category:French Classic winning jockeys etc.

Robert Sangster
Thanks for the addition to Repton School... do you have a reference? Victuallers 22:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Prix du Gros Chene
Thanks for helping with this - I'd tried finding the details but to no avail. I'll know who to ask next time! -- Zafonic 20:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanx - me too! Does your book also list the owners? Handicapper 17:08, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Lincolnshire Handicap
Would you mind doing another look in your book for me? A jockey named Frank O'Neill won the Lincolnshire Handicap but I would like to know the year (s). Thanx. Handicapper 18:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Environment Friend
I think you're right. I've looked up Environment Friend in the "Ladbrokes Pocket Companion" for 1993 which lists all pattern race winners from the previous 10 years. In both the 1991 Dante Stakes and Eclipse Stakes the winning trainer is listed as James Fanshawe, so I think it's fair to assume that he was also the trainer when the horse finished 11th in the 1991 Epsom Derby, between the two victories. -- Zafonic 21:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Robert Sangster's Australian Interests
Robert Sangster's involvement in the thoroughbred scene in Australia, was closely linked to - but not exclusively with - Colin Hayes. For example Magic Flute - the filly he purchased from the Stud I worked on - was sent to NSW to be trained by Brian Mayfield-Smith and her usual jockey was Jim Cassidy.

Hayes and Sangster had involvement together with the Collingrove Stud, however around 2005/2006 the Sangster family bought out the Hayes family interests to create Swettenham Stud Australia.

Here are some links which may assist with some more information:
 * Obituary from "The Age" newspaper (Australia) - 2004
 * Sangster article from "The Age" newspaper (Australia) - 2002
 * Swettenham Stud, Australia
 * Some of Sangster's Australian Horses

There are also some Australian races named after Robert Sangster. When I get a chance I will look up their details. MagicFlute1983 00:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is a link to an Australian Group 1 Race named after Robert Sangster: Robert Sangster Stakes. Cheers, MagicFlute1983 22:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No probs - I found it looking for something else so I thought I may as well send you the link whilst I was there ;) Cheer, MagicFlute1983 23:58, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Whilst looking for something else I found this today:
 * South Australian Thoroughbred Breeders Association "Robert Sangster Memorial Award" for the leading South Australian Based 2YO Sire
 * Cheers, MagicFlute1983 10:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * When you are ready, here is some very recent news about Swettenham Stud Austalia Swettenham to Restructure Cheers, MagicFlute1983 10:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

1987 Epsom Derby
Please go ahead with an article on the 1987 Epsom Derby - my references are a bit sketchy pre-1988. -- Zafonic 19:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well done on the new article - there is a lot of info there that I didn't previously know. The font sizes seem OK to me - I had a similar problem with one of the other articles (1994, I think), but it put itself right after a couple of days. If it continues to come up wrong let me know and I'll see if anything can fix it. -- Zafonic 21:41, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Troy / Sobell
I had bits of info on them in my "English" file for quite a while. (While I think about it, I also have Pommern, Rainbow Quest, Triptych, Ardross and Reference Point there too for the future. However, if you want to do any of them please go ahead but let me know so I don't duplicate your search efforts.) My knowledge of the UK is very limited so please add more as the articles on Troy and Sobell do need additional input, particularly the family and business background for Michael Sobell. Troy indeed seems to have been a heck of a horse but with a somewhat "offbeat" ancestry. I also couldn't find out why he is labeled as "UK" bred. Sobell owned Ballymacoll Stud in Ireland at the time and is registered as his breeder. I'd also like to know more about his early death. Handicapper 17:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Great additions, thanks. I've struck Reference Point off my list - let me know if you do any other. Handicapper 18:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Wilwyn
Would you mind looking in your book and see if you can find the name of the trainer for Wilwyn. He won the 1952 Rous Menmorial Stakes and the Great Yorkshire Stakes and in 1953 the Limekiln Stakes and John Porter Stakes and was second in the Coronation Cup. Thanx. Handicapper 14:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The track listed Waugh as trainer and that is why I questioned it. We don't have a policy on this, in such cases, which one do you think we should list? I note that Todd A. Pletcher employs more than 100 people and an assistant is very often the one who takes a "secondary" horse to a race. The NTRA still lists Pletcher as the official winning trainer but in their text usually mentions the assistant as the one in charge for that race. Handicapper 13:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Super Sprint
I've removed the "handicap" reference to avoid any confusion. -- Zafonic 19:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

If you are posting more race tables etc., note that I changed John Dunlop (racehorse trainer) to John L. Dunlop. Handicapper 19:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Here's another one:
 * Ryan Price (racehorse trainer)
 * Ryan Price (horse racing)

I have changed them to H. Ryan Price. Handicapper 12:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Re: Ryan Price - Thanks, I did see the info on the doping investigation on Hill House but it said it was dismissed as natural. If there is other certifiable info on the subject it should be included. With respect to the renaming of the races, unless impossible like the "Royal & SunAlliance Chase", we don't put in the sponsor's name because they change so frequently (more & more in recent years). In the race article itself we mention "was sponsored by" or "is currently sponsored by" etc. Also, (and it depends on how it appears on your monotor's screen), whenever the name or number of wins is long and causes the years to split between two lines, I try to keep it looking orderly by using the thing to drop all the dates underneath the race name. Forty? Did you start chasing twenty-year-olds and buy a whole new "cool" wardrobe to go with the "cool" new sports car? - Handicapper 18:08, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Prix d'Harcourt
The two sources I have for most French races are the France Galop and Galop.Courses-France websites. For the Prix d'Harcourt the references (which I've also put in the article) are: Both of them say that Patrick Biancone trained the 1987 winner. For further assurance that it wasn't Henry Cecil, the comprehensive list of pattern wins on henrycecil.com does not include the 1987 Prix d'Harcourt -- Zafonic 21:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * France Galop
 * galop.courses-france.com

New category??
Do you think that we should create a racetrack category for each race such as Category:Belmont Park or Category:Newmarket Racecourse etc. for all races there. Handicapper 15:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Such a category provides a quick access to all races at that track so I think I'll create ones for North America to get going. Handicapper 12:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Video - Precisionist
I just found this Video at YouTube. If you haven't seen it, take a look. It is the funniest finishing line incident I have ever seen. Handicapper 16:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Craven Stakes
The article for Beeswing (horse) says she won the Craven Stakes 3 times. Would your records have the years? Handicapper 13:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanx, but I just found it. Handicapper 14:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Newcastle Gold Cup
Do you have any info on the Newcastle Gold Cup such as when it was first run and last time run, list of winners and the like? 17:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Years in horse racing
I've thought about this too. I don't think a set of categories by year for "Jockey/Trainer/Owner" births and deaths would be welcomed generally, but the information could be typed as an intro to each existing "year" category. I'd also like to add a list of races which were inaugurated in that year.

To take a random example, 1985, we could have:
 * Births - Jamie Moore
 * Deaths - Harry Wragg
 * Races inaugurated - Sandown Mile

-- Zafonic 18:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Owners of British classic winners
Thank you for contacting me. I am not an expert on horse racing. On this occasssion I was working on a category I had created entitled Category:People with their own private railway halt and came across an interesting man named Henry Agar-Ellis, 3rd Viscount Clifden, who had such a station AND had owned a Derby winner. I assumed there would be a category for Derby owners- as there wasn't I created one. Please feel free to develop as you see fit.

Information source
My father, however, does has an encyclopaedic knowledge of horse-racing. I only mention this because however good the internet is, there are things a real person with a deep knowledge of a subject can still trump it on. Alas, he is not a Wikipedian, so you would have to route any enquiries through me. Bashereyre 09:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Your Lester Piggott contribution
Thank you for your contribution para to the Lester Piggott article. It turned out to be a satisfying collaboration. --User:Brenont 03:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Pebbles

Thanks for the comment regarding her. She truly was a great filly that brought a lot to the table when she raced and also in her personality. When Ouija Board was running I was reminded a lot of Pebbles in the fan base that swelled and deep respect for her from other trainers. --Kellsboro Jack 14:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Bay Ronald
I did an infobox for Bay Ronald. Would you mind checking your book to see if Tom Jennings, Jr. was his trainer? Thanx. Handicapper (talk) 16:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Rosslyn Stakes
Can you look in your book for any details on this race at Ascot Races. I never heard of it but found where Epsom Derby winner Never Say Die won this race as did Sir Winston Churchill in 1956 with his horse, Collusion. Handicapper (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought maybe it was one of those races where the name was changed 40 years ago or so and forgotten about. Handicapper (talk) 16:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Coretta
I did an article on Coretta but the only records I found were for her racing in the U.S. starting at age four. I think she raced in GB and/or France but searched and found nothing. If you don't mind, would you see if maybe your book has anything on her? Thanx again and Season's Greetings. Handicapper (talk) 15:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanx again. I'm a bit embarrassed at my stupidity. I tried www.racingpost.co.uk sometime ago but whatever I did, I thought it was a members only website. So, I've been accessing info there via the back door with hit & miss Google searches! Have you ever attended the Epsom Derby? Handicapper (talk) 15:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Edward Hulton
Wikipedia policy is that you always go with a reliable source and in Hulton's case we have a reliable source. That another source doesn't quote a middle name does not mean he didn't have one, it most often means they just didn't find it or were confused and played it safe. I think a Brit with no middle name is actually quite rare, is it not? Handicapper (talk) 16:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Racecourses in Europe
Hallo, do you think it would be a good idea to have a page listing every racecourse in Europe? - Culnacréann  -  (talk)  16:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Peter O'Sullivan (racing commentator)
Please do merge it I quite agree. I'm sorry that I made such a basic error. I should have thought of something as simple as a typo as I couldn't believe that he didn't have an article already. Paste (talk) 14:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Pretendre
Would you mind looking in your book to see if you can find the trainer's name for Pretendre? Foaled in 1963, he ran second in the 1966 Epsom Derby. Thanx. Handicapper (talk) 11:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I just found it. Thanx anyway. Handicapper (talk) 13:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)