User talk:BeanieFan11

Wow!
Just thought I'd stop by to say "Wow". I haven't been so active in recent months, but when I come back from time to tine I see all your great work on historical football topics. It is great to see someone relatively new working so diligently in this area and generating quality work. Cbl62 (talk) 16:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:07, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much, Cbl62 - this means a lot coming from you! And wow, I'm surprised my creations have received that many views - when I joined back in November 2020 (initially only to write two things), I would never have guessed I would go on to create things read by millions! BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Page views are an indication that people care for the subjects about which you are writing. You garnered 3.7 million views in just two-and-a-half years. That total will continue to grow in the years (and decades) ahead. Keep it up! Cbl62 (talk) 17:25, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Travis Clayton
Aoidh (talk) 00:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Jarrett Kingston
RoySmith (talk) 00:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Casey Washington
Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Michael Jurgens
Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Julius Welschof
Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for KT Leveston
RoySmith (talk) 00:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for C. J. Hanson
RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Levi Drake Rodriguez
The SandDoctor Talk 00:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Jude McAtamney
theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) and Valereee (talk) 00:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

The Original Barnstar

 * Thanks! :) BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

De-orphaning articles
Good morning/afternoon/evening! (please choose one, depending on your time zone)

I'm trying to de-orphan articles from the May list and I keep running into bios of people who were on football and other sports teams from long ago, such as Les Graham (American football). Are there "list of..." articles for football teams, where I could add these names? If not, are there other logical places to drop a link? These are stumping me. Joyous! Noise! 23:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It can vary by article. Now, for anyone who's actually played in the NFL (like Graham, which is verifiable here), there should be a minimum of two places that the subject can be linked: the 'list of team players', such as, in this case, List of Detroit Lions players (not sure why he isn't already there), and 1938 Detroit Lions season – although, currently, he cannot be linked at the latter since there's no roster listing (but there should be; some of the early seasons are incomplete – see 1926 Louisville Colonels season for how it should look for old seasons like that). However, the 'list of players' won't work in all circumstances, as some teams don't have the lists yet (e.g. List of Baltimore Ravens players is red). For people who attended a college, they can also be linked to articles about the school or college football team; in this case, he could be mentioned at List of University of Tulsa people. Does that help? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, it helps SO much. I appreciate your assistance. Joyous! Noise! 00:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Kenneth Odumegwu
Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Peter Bowden
Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Rosemary Miller
Hello! Your submission of Rosemary Miller at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 4meter4 (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Lansing Oldsmobile
Template:Lansing Oldsmobile has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. DB 1729 talk 15:42, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Alassane Seydou
Hi I have started a talk page discussion. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Jaelyn Brown
&spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:02, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Keaton Bills
&spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Sam Salz
I read this today and thought of you because I do not believe there is an article yet. What do you think? Bruxton (talk) 18:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * A pretty interesting story; though I note it seems he hasn't played in any college football games (will be interesting to see if A&M has any night games this year...). There's arguably a pass of WP:GNG with a good bit of coverage, though, besides Rudy I can't think of anyone with such little playing time who has an article... I'll pass for now, though you could write it if you like. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:05, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I can already see the DYK nomination. Lots of angles. He is like The Little Engine That Could. Lots of things that worked against him, the rules for walk-ons, his religious prohibitions, his diminutive size. A feel good story. Bruxton (talk) 19:43, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I started it in draft to see where it would go: Darft:Sam Salz (football player) Bruxton (talk) 23:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that I moved it to Draft:Sam Salz (American football) – as it was titled "Darft:" it was initially put in mainspace. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:29, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oops, so glad your eyes work better than mine! Bruxton (talk) 23:41, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

hi
just letting you know, the dyk review should be finished... and you passed! great job.  brachy 08  (chat here lol) 08:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Alyssa Mendoza
Hello! Your submission of Alyssa Mendoza at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Editør (talk) 12:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Columbus Wagner Pirates
Template:Columbus Wagner Pirates has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. DB 1729 talk 15:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you
Hello. Thank you for your kind message that you sent earlier today. I'm still not sure of all the technical bits on here so I hope this is the appropriate forum to reply. I'd never seen the stats you sent (as I said I don't understand the technical side of all these things) but it is good to know. I have just entered a page I had already begun work on before the situation arose as I felt it pointless to waste the effort I'd already put in. I will see what happens with it. Interestingly an article very similar to the 2 headed for deletion was approved yesterday as were 6 earlier that day. I do think the third party (I will not mention their name) was trying to upset me as the tone of their messages to me suggested such intention or at least a cold, and arrogant, manner that was totally unnecessary. I do not know how they got to the position they are in but I wonder if it has "gone to their head". Anyway thanks once again for boosting my spirits. I am not sure what my future on here holds as part of me says I don't need the hassle and another says why let the third party drive me away. Either way it is good to know people such as you are also on here. Best wishes. Shrug02 (talk) 20:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia can be very inconsistent -- that's what happens when there's ~1,000 different new page reviewers (like myself and the 'third party' you mention), each of which have varying views on what qualifies as 'notable'. Some users have very tight interpretations of the policies; others are more relaxed. One article may be deemed completely fine by one reviewer, and may be deemed worthy of deletion by another. I'd like to note though that we're all of the same standing -- he can choose to nominate an article for deletion just like you or I could; ultimately he doesn't have more 'authority' than you do or I do -- we're all just random people who choose to be 'editors' on this website. Whether you stay is up to you, although I'll say this: I've been discouraged about articles I cared about being deleted before, but I've stayed since I still enjoy writing articles. That's what it should come down to: whether editing here and writing articles is still enjoyable for you. If you do decide to stay, I'm happy to help out with any questions. BTW, you may want to archive any of your articles that may face deletion; I did so with Aimee Aikenhead here. Thanks, BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. I've saved the other article on the chopping block too. Another thing I didn't know existed. Much appreciated. I do have a question you may be able to help with. My understanding is that the ultimate decision on what is deleted is made by the person who nominated it for deleting as it's not a simple voting thing according to the incredibly complicated deletion policy information. Is that correct? Shrug02 (talk) 22:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Once an article is nominated for deletion, a 7-day discussion follows (sometimes longer if there's not enough participation). At the end of the discussion, an experienced editor, usually an administrator, will come along and determine whether the 'consensus' (weighing of the arguments made and the amount of support for each argument) is in favor of keeping or deleting the article; then it will be kept or deleted as per the 'consensus'. Hope that helps. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It does. Thank you for clearing that up. A far more straightforward explanation then the "help" pages I was directed to. Shrug02 (talk) 22:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Rosemary Miller
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Rosemary Miller you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of PearlyGigs -- PearlyGigs (talk) 06:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Gary Elks
Template:Gary Elks has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. DB 1729 talk 11:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Chicago Boosters
Template:Chicago Boosters has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. DB 1729 talk 12:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Daniel Chapo
RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Help
Hello again. Two of my older pages have been blanked and redirected without any discussion taking place. Is this allowed and if not how do I reverse it? Shrug02 (talk) 07:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Ignore the above. I have found the information. Sorry to bother you. Best wishes. Shrug02 (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That's alright. Also, I noticed that you requested all your cricket articles to be deleted, as well as a few other of your creations? Your welcome to do as you wish with your article creations, but I think a few may have been notable... It might have been better to 'blank-and-redirect' them at least, as that way if they do become notable in the future, it'd be easy to simply restore them. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Indeed. One was the world's youngest international cricketer (a record that can't ever be broken due to new rules) as well as a few with other records and one who was a world bowls champion and now captains Jersey women cricket. It seems these articles are unwelcome on here where American high school athletes and obscure Indian cricket grounds are more worthy (that's the latest guy who requested my stuff be deleted speciality). I truly appreciate your kind words but I'm deflated by the whole thing. They're deleted now and if someone else wants to try to write them in the future they can fight the battle but it seems the review police here simply aren't interested. Shrug02 (talk) 15:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You can still get them undeleted if you like. If those descriptions are all correct then I'd think several of those are notable. Just because a few may be deleted doesn't mean all should be. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * They are correct. If you Google Nia Greig cricket and Chloe Greechan cricket you'll see what I mean and that's just the main two. Several of the others had smaller records or national landmarks. I'm sorry to bother you with this. You're the only nice person I've come across on here and I have health issues that effect my state of mind a lot. That's one reason I started doing this so as to concentrate on something and enjoy it but it hasn't worked out that wsy. Shrug02 (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No problem with coming to me about this. I'm sorry your experience with Wikipedia has been poor. I admit the notability rules, etc., can be a load of nonsense at times. If you think it is best for your health that you leave the site then your welcome to do so. I do think it'd be a shame to lose a talented editor like you, though. There's still time to get your articles undeleted – that way we could at least have them redirected to the lists and the content would be preserved; not to mention that several such as the ones you mention would probably have a decent shot at being notable. Let me know what you think. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I have requested the Nia Greig and Chloe Greechan articles be reinstated although they probably won't be. The rest I'll leave as no doubt if I requested they all be reinstated I'd be banned or something - not that I intend to create anymore new pages but I would like to still add to my existing ones especially a few which I've poured literally days of work into. Thanks again for being so kind. I had hoped this "community" would all be pleasant but alas as with so much in life online and off it is not. Shrug02 (talk) 15:30, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * One thing you may be able to do - that I just thought of - would be this: include the biographies at List of Jersey women Twenty20 International cricketers; similar has been done in the past for football coaches, see e.g. List of Southwestern Moundbuilders head football coaches. That way your work would not be lost and all the content would still be on Wikipedia, just not as all separate articles. Thoughts? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That could have been an option but they're all gone now (except the 2 I mentioned that have been reinstated), plus the guy who patrols the associate cricket pages probably wouldn't like it and the reviewer who I have fallen foul of today (RoboCric) has already begun going to my remaining pages and seeking their deletion. He only became a reviewer today and I really don't see how they let someone like that have such a role. Thanks for the suggestion though. Shrug02 (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * See DanCherek's comment below: they all can be restored without question. If you're concerned about adding the biographies to the list yourself, I'd be happy to do it for you :) BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @BeanieFan11 That is very thoughtful of you. Do I request they be restored and you put the information on or can you request them or? I don't know how to proceed. Shrug02 (talk) 16:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll work on it. Could we get all of the Jersey women's cricket articles G7'd by Shrug02 to be restored? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @BeanieFan11 Ok. Just a quick note. Two of the articles are male players, 1 is an Isle of Man player and another is a modern penthalete. As you know there are 3 Jersey women players in the AFD thingy too. Thank you. I feel less cut up now. Shrug02 (talk) 16:30, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, I've now restored the following: Lily Greig, Florence Tanguy, Charlie Miles, Mia Maguire, Georgia Mallet, Analise Merritt, Grace Wetherall, Erin Gouge, Erin Duffy, and Trinity Smith. These ones have not been restored yet as I was looking for the Jersey women's cricket ones, but let me know if I should do so: Charlie Brennan, Patrick Gouge, Lucy Barnett, and Olivia Green. DanCherek (talk) 16:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks @DanCherek. That's all the Jersey women's players. Could you also restore Lucy Barnett? I'll leave the other 3 articles for now. Shrug02 (talk) 16:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ DanCherek (talk) 16:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you Shrug02 (talk) 16:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I added the biographies to the List of Jersey women Twenty20 International cricketers article. I left as individual articles Nia Greig, Trinity Smith, Grace Wetherall and Chloe Greechan (Greig for the record, Smith since she seems to have decent coverage, and the other two since they play multiple sports). BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:35, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks @BeanieFan11 I can't express how much your kindness means to me. Shrug02 (talk) 17:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Really sorry to bother you again. They've redirected 2 of the AFD articles but the Maria Da Rocha redirect doesn't jump to her mini bio like the rest. Do you know how I can fix that or is it not possible? Sorry again. Shrug02 (talk) 01:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No problem. I fixed it. 02:14, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hey, just wanted to leave a quick note as the admin who actioned most of your G7 requests. On a quick glance I thought the articles seemed very well-written and I'm sorry that you feel like your work is unappreciated. If at any point in the future you'd like to see them restored, whether as standalone articles or as redirects with the content preserved in the history, just say the word and I (or another admin at WP:REFUND) will do it without question, since restoring a G7-deleted article is an uncontroversial decision. Best, DanCherek (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @DanCherek Thanks for that. It is so surprising to hear such kind sentiments. I have had 2 restored as I think they have a chance of being deemed notable enough to survive the inevitable AFD request by either RoboCric or JTtheOG. The rest, despite being approved by other reviewers, would probably be sent straight to AFD by these two individuals. Shrug02 (talk) 16:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @BeanieFan11 Thanks for fixing the Da Rocha thing. Only the Copley AFD left and hopefully they'll agree to that one doing the same then it'll be all sorted. Thank you again for all your help. Shrug02 (talk) 07:20, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Rosemary Miller
The article Rosemary Miller you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Rosemary Miller and Talk:Rosemary Miller/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of PearlyGigs -- PearlyGigs (talk) 12:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Rosemary Miller
The article Rosemary Miller you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Rosemary Miller for comments about the article, and Talk:Rosemary Miller/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of PearlyGigs -- PearlyGigs (talk) 18:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Alec Anderson (American football, born 1894)
The above sub-stub unconditionally and utterly fails WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5 ("Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources.")

Because of this non-compliance, I redirected the article in November 2022 to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929). You reverted with a request to discuss, yet you never initiated a discussion of this person's notability.

In December 2022, I tagged the article for failure to comply with SPORTBASIC. The article then went unimproved for another 18 months.

Earlier today, I again redirected in light of the utter failure to meet our most basic standard for sports biographies. You again reverted the redirect with an edit summary saying "there's arguably enough to write an NBASIC-compliant article - I could do so if you like."

NBASIC requires at least one SIGCOV source to be included in the article. Can you provide one or more of the sources that you believe are "arguably enough"? If you have such sourcing, I'm happy to add it to the article for you (as I did at Herman Martell). However, if you don't have such sourcing, the two-year-long effort to prevent redirection of a non-compliant sub-stub seems like stubborn obstructionism. Cbl62 (talk) 19:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * You reverted the redirect here without adding the required SIGCOV. The source you added (here) is a very brief piece, noting that he was selected as a mid-season replacement as captain of the 1920 Georgetown football team (a team that went 0-4 after Anderson took over as captain). No depth at all. This is not SIGCOV and certainly not enough to satisfy WP:GNG. Unless you can do better than that, I will definitely be taking it to AfD. Cbl62 (talk) 04:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That source was added by Let'srun. I haven't even had the time to look at this one; there's only so much I can do in a limited time when you're getting rid of potentially notable NFL players by the dozens... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * getting rid of potentially notable NFL players by the dozens Not "dozens", it's around 20 all of which have been tagged for over 18 months. And the beauty of a redirect is that it allows restoration (including attribution) if and when someone can show that these one-game players are actually notable. Cbl62 (talk) 20:16, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Not "dozens", it's around 20 – actually, it was 33 in one day and now you've listed on the WT:NFL talk page 165 others. Its not a "beauty" to get rid of obviously notable NFL players when you could have easily added significant coverage, thus forcing myself to do the work and wasting significant amounts of my time. I mean come on: from Fred Beach to Steve Uhrinyak, 19/24 redirects were reverted with added coverage (not that every single one of those is conclusively notable, but each have at least a fair argument) . I could've written several good articles in the time I've wasted in this ridiculousness. SPORTCRIT shouldn't mean that WP:BEFORE can be thrown out the window. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Stop with the bullshit inaccurate information. You know full well the 165 were redirected two years ago. The redirects this week total 23! Cbl62 (talk) 20:50, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * obviously notable NFL players I can't believe you're saying that with a straight face. I seriously doubt that any of the one-game players you reverted will survive AfD. Cbl62 (talk) 20:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Looking at your contributions list, its actually 36. You really think that guys like John Law, who captained undefeated national champion Notre Dame and received an in-depth NYT obituary, as well as a number of others who were repeatedly in the headlines, would not survive AFD? BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There's no question that the John Law who was captain of Knute Rockne's 1929 national championship team is notable, but that John Law already has an article at John B. Law, created back in 2008. If the one-game NFL player, John Law (American football), is the same person, then you should revert your revert and simply change the redirect target to John B. Law. Cbl62 (talk) 00:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)


 * See Articles for deletion/Alec Anderson (American football, born 1894). Cbl62 (talk) 21:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Ivan Quinn
The above sub-stub unconditionally and utterly fails WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5 ("Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources."). Because of this non-compliane, I tagged the article in November 2022 for non-compliance with the above guideline. I then waited 18 months for someone to improve the article, but no new sourcing has been added. Given the clear non-compliance (and 18 months of inaction after tagging), I redirected the article earlier today to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929). You immediately reverted with a request that I take this to AfD. Why should an AfD be required? Do you have SIGCOV? A redirect is far more desirable as the target article preserves the attribution history and directs the reader to a list that contains basic information and sourcing about Quinn. If you don't have sourcing at this point, your reverting the redirect of a plainly non-compliant sub-stub seems like obstructionism. Cbl62 (talk) 19:35, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Johnny Nagle
The above sub-stub unconditionally and utterly fails WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5 ("Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources.")

Because of this non-compliance, I redirected the article in November 2022 to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929). You reverted with a request to discuss, yet you never initiated a discussion or gave any basis to demonstrate Nagle's notability.

In December 2022, I tagged the article for failure to comply with SPORTBASIC. The article then went unimproved for another 18 months.

Earlier today, I again redirected in light of the utter failure to meet our most basic standard for sports biographies. You again reverted the redirect with an edit summary saying "please take to AFD instead." Why should an AfD be required? Do you have SIGCOV? Cbl62 (talk) 19:41, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Swede Erickson
Same history and issues as Johnny Nagle. Still unimproved after 18 months of waiting patiently. Why should the time-sink of an AfD be required? Do you have SIGCOV? Cbl62 (talk) 19:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Hal Hansen
Same history and issues as Johnny Nagle] and Swede Erickson. All of these have been tagged for over 18 months with no improvements. Rather than simply reverting these en masse, how about first searching for sources? If you find SIGCOV, then it would be appropriate to revert and add the SIGCOV. But reverting en masse, after 18 months of notice, really seems like obstructionism. Cbl62 (talk) 19:50, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Look – you can AFD as many of these as you want, but I simply disagree with blanking-and-redirecting without discussion. The football project has a number of editors who are excellent at finding sources – and the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Football biography cleanup forum has been used a number of times to discuss such articles with largely success. I ultimately think it makes the most sense for such articles to be discussed, especially as for several sources have already been found (Martell, Quast). If you've been 'waiting patiently' for 18 months for me to improve them, you could have just specified as I'm happy to help out with these. I just think discussion is most appropriate – as many of these are debatable. You can re-redirect Quinn, Erickson and Nagle if that's what you really want (Hansen and Anderson I think deserve more of a look). BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your agreeing to redirects on Quinn, Erickson, and Nagle. Can you go ahead and revert your reverting of my redirects? If I revert you, it might appear to be edit-warring. Cbl62 (talk) 20:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, I am familiar with the WikiProject National Football League/Football biography cleanup forum. In fact, I created it. Part of the "cleanup" proces is being honest with ourselves and deleting or redirecting those where no SIGCOV can be found. Cbl62 (talk) 20:17, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I know... I admit I can sometimes go a bit - too far - in trying to keep them, since they are some of the most interesting players to me... My apologies for the 'obstructionism'. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand. Remember this, though. A redirect can easily be undone if and when SIGCOV is found on these players. A redirect also preserves the attribution history. An AfD, on the other hand, is a massive time sink and runs the risk that there is a consensus to delete -- thus jeopardizing the history and attribution. Cbl62 (talk) 20:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I still have real doubts as to whether Hansen passes GNG -- he was not much of an impact player in college and only appeared in one game as a backup in the NFL. That said, I searched for and found a couple sources that are arguaby SIGCOV and thus get him over the relatively low bar of SPORTBASIC #5. Cbl62 (talk) 15:40, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Rocky Segretta
I don't have access to the Fausto Batella book. Does it have SIGCOV on Segretta? Cbl62 (talk) 20:14, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, it had a chapter dedicated to him if I remember correctly. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Could you provide some detail? The article is a bare sub-stub and it would be great to see it fleshed out a bit if we have an entire chapter of biographical information on him. Cbl62 (talk) 20:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

WikiCup 2024 July newsletter
The third round of the 2024 WikiCup ended on 28 June. As with Round 2, this round was competitive: each of the 16 contestants who advanced to Round 4 scored at least 256 points.

The following editors all scored more than 400 points in Round 3:


 * with 1,059 points, mostly from 1 featured article on DeLancey W. Gill, 11 good articles, 18 did you know nominations, and dozens of reviews;
 * with 673 points, mostly from 2 featured articles on Worlds (Porter Robinson album) and I'm God, 5 good articles, and 2 did you know nominations;
 * with 557 points, mostly from 1 featured article on KNXV-TV, 5 good articles, and 8 did you know nominations; and
 * with 415 points, mostly from 1 featured article on Great cuckoo-dove, with a high number of bonus points from that article.

The full scores for round 3 can be seen here. So far this year, competitors have gotten 28 featured articles, 38 featured lists, 240 good articles, 92 in the news credits, and at least 285 did you know credits. They have conducted 279 featured article reviews, as well as 492 good article reviews and peer reviews, and have added 22 articles to featured topics and good topics.

Remember that any content promoted after 28 June but before the start of Round 4 can be claimed during Round 4, which starts on 1 July at 00:00 (UTC). Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether for a good article, featured content, or anything else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews Needed.

If you would like to learn more about rules and scoring for the 2024 WikiCup, please see this page. Further questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges (,, and ) are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:29, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Karl Schuelke
You need to add SIGCOV to the article in order justify reverting the redirect. To help you do that, I made a clipping for you of the source that you referenced in you edit summary. 1953 piece. Cbl62 (talk) 01:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Tommy Whelan
You need to add SIGCOV to the article in order justify reverting the redirect. To help you do that, I made a clipping for you of the source that you referenced in you edit summary. 1937 piece. Cbl62 (talk) 01:47, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree that the one article that I clipped for you (here) is enough to get over the WP:SPORTBASIC #5 hump. I continue to have doubts, however, as to whether it's a sufficient quantum of SIGCOV to pass the higher bar of WP:GNG. If you find additional SIGCOV, let me know. Cbl62 (talk) 04:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Steve Uhrinyak
You need to add SIGCOV to the article in order justify reverting the redirect. To help you do that, I made clippings for you of several source from the search referenced in you edit summary,. Cbl62 (talk) 01:53, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you redirecting these articles on the basis that they are not notable, or on the basis that they are notable – but no one has added the sources demonstrating notability? If the latter, I think that's problematic. If someone is clearly notable and it takes very little effort to locate notability-granting sources, then the fact that no one has added the sources at this exact time should absolutely not warrant immediate deletion or redirection. Such a standard would result in the deletion of many prominent and decorated figures in football's history, such as Pop Ivy, Bill Lee, George Svendsen, Jack Ferrante and Jack Spikes, among others. You said previously that "I've actually spent days searching for sources on these one-game players", but given how easy it has been to find sources for some of these guys (John Law had a NYT feature as his first google result; McGlone, Ekberg, Uhriyak, Scuelke, Whelan and Leahy all had feature stories as the first results on newspapers.com), it seems questionable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:18, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I have searched. I used to have a NYT subscription but can no longer afford to maintain all the subscriptions I once had. Your efforts are appreciated, but remember that before reverting the redirects -- the guidelines are quite clear that at least one SIGCOV source needs to be present in a sports biography. Cbl62 (talk) 03:25, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Its fine if you don't have a NYT subscription (ProQuest through the Wikipedia Library has it for free BTW) – but still McGlone, Ekberg, Uhrinyak, Scheulke, Whelan, Leahy, etc. all had feature stories on the first page on newspapers.com results. How were all those missed? SPORTCRIT is supposed to help delete obviously non-notable articles for which no significant coverage can be found, not prevent the existence of clearly notable articles because of editor laziness (myself included). Do you also think it would be appropriate to redirect Pop Ivy to List of NFL head coaches because no one has added sigcov at this moment to this obviously-notable figure? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:49, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You are missing the fundamental point: SPORTBASIC #5 was adopted overwhelmingly to deal with the mass creation of sports biography sub-stubs lacking SIGCOV in the article to demonstrate notability.  The mass creation of these sub-stubs, sourced only to databases, generated a massive wave of anger within the broader Wikipedia community. In order to prevent that wave from rising again, we need to respect the commnity-wide consensus. If a sports biography does not include SIGCOV (actually in the article), it does not belong in main space. Such sub-stubs need to be (i) properly source, after a reasonable period of time (in this case, I waited 18 months after tagging), or (ii) redirected, draftified, or deleted -- they simply cannot remain in Main Space under the current community-wide consensus. This is not rocket science: sports bio sub-stubs that lack SIGCOV cannot remain in Main Space! Cbl62 (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So, you think that Pop Ivy needs to be redirected or nominated for deletion right now? Tens of thousands of notable sportspeople would be immediately deleted under such an interpretation. Wikipedia is a work in progress and there is no deadline. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:38, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Clearly not, Beanie.
 * (1) Pop Ivy is not and was not a sub-stub. It's got 5,000 characters of narrative text. He's a legendary figure. There's tons of SIGCOV, and I easily added two examples to the article.
 * (2) The articles I have redirected are one- or two-sentence sub-stubs (e.g. George Kane (American football)) on individuals whose claim to "notability"" consists of playing a single game in the early days of professional football.
 * We would do a much greater service to the encyclopedia by improving important articles like Pop Ivy (or Bill Lee or George Svendsen) and less time on the likes of George Kane. Cbl62 (talk) 16:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * SPORTCRIT makes no mention of exceptions for non-'sub-stubs'. Ivy is clearly notable and SIGCOV was easily found. But then again, Steve Uhrinyak is also notable and SIGCOV was easily found as well. Using SPORTCRIT, just because Ivy is more well-known doesn't mean he gets an 'exception' from SPORTCRIT while others – who are also notable – don't get it. I think both are notable and should not be redirected: I'm only pointing out the ridiculousness of the interpretation you're using to justify the removal of clearly notable athletes. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:21, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Pop Ivy is an important figure with a "Start"-level article. The fact that a "Start"-level article could be improved in no way justifies sub-stubs on one-game players like George Kane. We need to respect and abide by the community-wide consensus adopted in SPORTBASIC #5. If we keep dodging the issue with misdirection like this, we are asking the wolves to come back a impose far more draconian remedies. Cbl62 (talk) 16:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You could just as easily replace Ivy for Svendson, Lee, etc. – the point is, in trying to delete / redirect any NFL player, one should do their due diligence in searching for sources. Given that feature stories were easily available for many of the articles redirected, I don't think that was done. True, SPORTCRIT requires SIGCOV, but indiscriminately getting rid of NFL players – even if they played little – solely for failing that at the present, when coverage is easily found and can be added, is not good practice IMO. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty clearly contrary to community-wide consensus as set forth at WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5. Cbl62 (talk) 19:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Look, I have a lot of respect for you, but redirecting clearly notable NFL players solely because no one has yet felt like adding significant coverage – with what seems to be almost no attempt to determine whether they're notable – is something that seems contrary to building an encyclopedia and ridiculous. That was the reason I thought they'd best be at AFD. FWIW, I highly, highly doubt that there would be support if SPORTCRIT were amended to reflect that "anyone can indiscriminately get rid of as many articles currently failing it – no matter how notable they may be – without any sort of search." (Yes, I get that they played one game, but still...) There's probably 5,000 notable NFL players currently failing that criterion; I'd like to know, are you saying that you'd have no objection if someone were to run WP:AWB and redirect all of them to respective team lists, because "no matter how notable they are, they need to be redirected per failing SPORTCRIT"? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * For crying out loud. Nobody is re-directing 5,000 articles without prior notice. I redirected a small sub-set of one-game players and did so after tagging the articles (in hopes that somebody would improve them), then waiting 18 months before redirecting. WP:SPORTBASIC #5 is clear. It can, should be, and will be enforced. I know you don't like it, but it was adopted with overwhelming community-wide consensus. Cbl62 (talk) 19:31, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I continue to question Uhrinyak's notability. He played college football at a small college. He then signed to play pro football and was a total flop, being released after appearing in the season opener as a backup lineman. Yes, there is an article (here) from a local paper providing some depth of coverage at the time of his signing a pro contract -- the kind of piece that one expects to see when a local boy signs a pro contract. But given that his pro career was a flop, I have serious doubts as to whether this establishes true notability. Cbl62 (talk) 04:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * With that logic a lot of the season articles you've created could be deleted for being routine, no? (1938 Worcester Tech Engineers football team) Not that it should be, just for arguments sake. ~WikiOriginal-9~  ( talk )
 * He made it to the NFL (and not in the early 1920s when it was a smaller league) and there's multiple headline feature stories on him... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:16, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the DCWC!


Welcome to the 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest, BeanieFan11! The contest is now open for submissions. List your work at your submissions page to earn points. If you haven't done so already, please review the following:


 * Got open nominations? List them at review requests.
 * Looking for a topic to work on? Check out suggested articles and eligible reviews.
 * Not sure if your article qualifies? See the guidelines for more information or contact a coordinator for verification.
 * New to Wikipedia? Many experienced editors are part of this contest and willing to help; feel free to ask questions about the contest on the talk page.
 * Know someone else who might be interested? Sign-ups remain open until 15 July, so don't hesitate to invite other editors!

On behalf of the coordinators, we hope you enjoy participating and wish you good luck! If you have any questions, please leave a message on the contest talk page or ask one of the coordinators:, , or. (To unsubscribe from these updates, remove yourself from this list.) Sent via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh ) 00:01, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Peewee Jarrett
RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Question
Can you look for SIGCOV for Henry Lewis (American football) for me when you get a chance? Newspapers.com doesn't seem to be working for me right now. Search results aren't loading. Have you had that issue before? ~WikiOriginal-9~ ( talk ) 03:16, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll make sure to look at all of the redirected articles. For the past two days that issue has periodically come up; it seems to be a Wiki-Library thing as it works fine with the normal newspapers.com url. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:18, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Couldn't find anything significant, or even mentions outside of box scores. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:35, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Han Bong-zin
—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

A cookie for you! (June 2024 backlog drive)
~ Tails   Wx  06:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to trouble you again
Hello. All the Jersey women's cricket bios you did have been deleted from the page. Can you help get them back or do I need to appeal to someone or some group? Shrug02 (talk) 16:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know how I missed that – I restored it with an explanation of why they were added. If the user reverts it again we may need to start a discussion on it, but even if that happens I think there's a decent argument for why they should stay. For now though, they're back and I don't think anything else needs to be done. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @BeanieFan11 Thanks. I only noticed because I checked the final AFD discussion which closed yesterday and the redirect led to what had happened. I'm so tired of this business. Really don't understand the harm in the information being there. Surely more information is better than less? Anyway thanks again. Hopefully I won't trouble you further. I've decided to stop making new pages and just added to existing ones. Less aggravation and hopefully still enjoyable. Shrug02 (talk) 16:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

QPQs
Hi there, thought I'd give you a wee nudge about outstanding QPQs. Alyssa Mendoza is super-urgent as you were reminded of the missing QPQ on 23 June; anyone could close the nomination as failed at any time. Evann Girault is the other nomination that I'm keeping an eye on for the Olympics project. And there's Emmanuella Atora.  Schwede 66  03:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Did QPQs for the two (I had already done one for Mendoza, but forgot to respond to the question about the hook). BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Zhang Ziyu
Hello! Your submission of Zhang Ziyu at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 4meter4 (talk) 21:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi there, can I suggest that you attend to the height issue next? It's supposed to be signed off for Prep6, and that's already available. Say if you need more time (please ping me) and I'll slide it back).  Schwede 66  00:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Where in the article specifically should I make mention of it, and how? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It says: She measured at 2.20 metres (7 ft 3 in) at the tournament. That's the right spot. Amend it like so:
 * Other recent sources list her as 2.25 metres(ref 1) and 2.28 metres.(ref2)
 * Or something like that.  Schwede 66  00:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks! BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:46, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Rosemary Miller
&spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Thelma Davies
Hi, thanks for getting in touch. All I am waiting for Thelma Davies is a source that she’s competing for Liberia at the Olympics. Feel free to move it to main space if you would like to though Hildreth gazzard (talk) 05:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:1893 Western Maryland Green Terror football team
Hello, BeanieFan11. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:1893 Western Maryland Green Terror football team, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 11:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:1901 Wilmington Conference Academy football team
Hello, BeanieFan11. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:1901 Wilmington Conference Academy football team, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 11:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Cleo Hill Jr.
Z1720 (talk) 00:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Zhang Ziyu
The only East Asian girl born in Generation Z to be over 200cm. Why did you remove my edit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.24.21 (talk) 21:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I removed it because the assertion was unsourced and not necessary. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:03, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:1892 Western Maryland Green Terror football team
Hello, BeanieFan11. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:1892 Western Maryland Green Terror football team, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 06:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Union Republican
Hello, BeanieFan11. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Union Republican, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 23:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Gordon Cooper (American football)
Clovermoss 🍀 (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Walter Lowe
Talk:Walter Lowe (American football) - Thoughts? Should it be renamed "R.V. Lowe"? Cbl62 (talk) 16:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Ryan Warsofsky
&spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Julian Lewis (American football)
theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination
Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Edda Hannesdóttir at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step III of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with db-g7, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 10:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Marcedes Walker
Good work on this Beanie. No issues with the nomination itself. Ping me when you get your QPQ done. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Same for Template:Did you know nominations/Filomenaleonisa Iakopo. All that is needed is the QPQ. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Zhang Ziyu
 Schwede 66  00:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Here's a deal
You wanted to get ideas for good hooks for Jess Davis (modern pentathlete). I've got two great hooks but what I'd like from you in exchange is QPQs for Template:Did you know nominations/Edda Hannesdóttir and Template:Did you know nominations/Lê Đức Phát ASAP as they are both flagbearers. I'd like to run a combined hook for the flagbearers. Do we have a deal?  Schwede 66  02:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I responded at the DYK talk (and got QPQs done for those two so far). BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:02, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Viren Nettasinghe
Hello! Your submission of Viren Nettasinghe at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Kingsif (talk) 00:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Matthew Wright (triathlete)
Hello! Your submission of Matthew Wright (triathlete) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 4meter4 (talk) 16:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)