User talk:BenRussell/List of longest-lasting empires

page
Hey everyone. Still working on this page. I think a lot of the dates are tentative, but I felt that it was necessary to put the empires into context of longevity. It's one thing to have a big empire; it's quite another for it to last the test of time. Feel free to organize what i haven't. still gotta put up the "more than a millenium" and "more than a century" categories then put them in order of shortest to longest. Your help is appreciated. Scott Free (talk) 05:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not let the wikitable sort it for you? See Help:Sorting. Amniarix (talk) 15:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, do we have to put the entries in multiple separate tables in arbitrary groups? Just one complete table, sorted by longevity, would be fine. Recommended in Table Markup. Amniarix (talk) 15:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

A better title for the article would be List of longest-lasting empires.
 * Agreed. Feel free to change it Scott Free (talk) 03:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

About the Spanish Empire
the spanish empire didnt end until 1975 with the last oversea possesion of Spanish Sahara, so im changing the date of 1898 to 1975--EuroHistoryTeacher (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

How about the Japanese Empire
The Japanese empire isn't listed here....why?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.62.31 (talk) 20:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably because the Japanese "Empire" is a slippery concept. Did it begin in 660BC with the first (probably legendary) emperor, or 509AD with the first verifiable emperor, or in 1867 with the modern Japanese Empire? Indeed the Empire itself has taken a number of different forms since its formation. I agree that there does need to be an entry - probably multiple! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.232.229 (talk) 18:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Carthage
It is not mentioned at all. Neither is Egypt. I think these two empires are some of the greaest civilizations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tikaaa (talk • contribs) 13:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Portuguese Empire
One cannot credibly claim that the Portuguese Empire began in 1415 with the take over of what ended up being a relatively worthless North African port (Ceuta). It is consensus that the modern imperial era began with the "discovery" of the Americas by Columbus, 77 years after the capture of Ceuta, which was nothing more than a hop over the straits of Gibraltar for the Portuguese taken for comercial purpose, NOT for empire.

If the capture of Ceuta in 1415 is to be held as the starting date of the Portuguese Empire, using the same logic, we would then have to (absurdly) argue that the Spanish Empire began with the Castilian conquest of the Canary Islands in 1402. The Canary Islands were subject to the same colonial pressures that would later characterize European colonization in the Americas (large numbers of colonists with subjugated natives and the overlay of the conquering culture over the conquered one). Ceuta has much more in common with the Canarian conquest than with a truly imperial expansion.

Therefore, just as the Spanish Empire began when Columbus landed in the Americas and not with the 1402 take over of the Canary Islands, by the same logic, the Portuguese Empire began with the landing of Cabral in Brazil in 1500, not in some minor North African port in 1415.

Eboracum (talk) 17:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You quite clearly haven't done much reading on the subject, if that is what you think. Read chapter 1 of this book .  Or chapter 2 of this book  (the chapter is titled "Ceuta - the beginning of Empire").  Also it appears to me that you do not understand the policy of verifiability.  If you did, you would be looking for what historians determine to the beginning of the Portuguese Empire, not what you think constitutes the beginning.  The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 22:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Would you then be opposed to having the Spanish Empire starting in 1402? Eboracum (talk) 22:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Please do not remove referenced information. And regarding the Spanish Empire, it's not what I think, it's what the references say.  Please get familiar with Wikipedia's policies before continuing to insert your own original research into articles.  The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 22:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry - I apologise - I thought you had reverted the Ceuta thing.  However, regarding the Spanish Empire: show me the reference which makes that claim.  My reading of the subject suggests that the consensus is that it began in 1492.  I will provide references later (have to go out for dinner...)  The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 23:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * For example, says "Although the Kingdom of Castile reached to the Canary Islands in 1402, the real beginnings of the Spanish Empire did not come until 1492...."  And please do not slap a "neutrality" tag on the whole article just because you dispute one fact.  You haven't even provided a single reference to back up your claim.   The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 23:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Organization
I think the empires should be listed in age order, not alphabetical.

Seriously, why not simply add a "Duration" column to the original 'List of empires' article, then people can click on the header to get longevity order. Otherwise, this article is just a duplicate which has to be kept in sync. Amniarix (talk) 14:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

If we retain this page then I agree with the above poster: it should initially be sorted by longevity, in a single table, not alphabetically within arbitrary ranges (1-99 years, etc.). Amniarix (talk) 14:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree too.... It makes the point of longevity kind of pointless if they're not in length order...--Kurtle (talk) 00:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Mayan Empire
I may be wrong, but wasn't there a long lived Mayan empire as well? Ineuw (talk) 16:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

nope. There was a Mayan civilization, but not a single unified state. Ericl (talk) 14:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Chinese Empire? WHICH Chinese Empire?
The So-called Chinese Empire is listed as one of the longest lasting, but it collapsed quite a few times and was in pieces for much of the time listedEricl (talk) 14:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

-Chinese Empire...
 * Hsia China (Hsia+Shang+Chou)
 * Han China (Chin+Han)
 * Tang China (Sui+Tang)
 * Song China
 * Ming China

Well... Hsia China lasted a looong time. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 06:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD (2nd nomination)
Please see Articles for deletion/List of longest-lasting empires (2nd nomination). Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

post-userified comment
I suggest to remove the last one (Eastern and Western Roman empire together last...) that sounds really gay for your false information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MadeByGod (talk • contribs) 04:26, 6 April 2010 (UTC)