User talk:Ben MacDui/Archive 14

DYK for Law Ting Holm
The DYK project (nominate) 08:04, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ben!
It's been a while. How are things?

I need your help. I've just made a stupid contribution to my huge rambling userpage which I would love to have permanently deleted if possible. I've removed it but of course it's still there. Check a few contributions back and you'll know exactly which one. The section it was in is partly meant to be silly and will be removed soon.

It may have been a problem to mention when I was a kid but today it just makes me look defective. Thank you so much if you can do this. DinDraithou (talk) 21:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I am well thank-you, although suffering from a slight cough. Unless I have misunderstood you, I think you are looking for a deletion that falls under Oversight. If so, I suggest you remove all the material concerned in a single edit, and contact someone with that capacity (- there is a link to those so authorised on the Oversight page) - providing a diff or diffs. Just let me know if that's not what you need and/or you want a specific suggestion as to who to contact. Regards, Ben   Mac  Dui  09:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I didn't know that not all administrators get to waste their time with this special power. I'll be writing Oversight an email shortly. Sorry about your cough, one of my least favourite things to suffer from... disrupts the thinking in my case. Cheers! DinDraithou (talk) 17:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Relief. They took care of it instantly. Thank you so much. DinDraithou (talk) 19:03, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Tay Bridge disaster
This is not a natural disaster. A natural disaster is something like an earthquake, a tidal wave, a hurricane, etcetera. This is just a bridge failure. - Denimadept (talk) 12:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it "collapsed during a violent storm", which is not that different from a building that does so during a hurricane, but I don't feel at all strongly either way. Do you think William McGonagall meets the criteria? :-)  Ben   Mac  Dui  12:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)


 * If a an engineered structure collapses during an earthquake, the damage is part of that 'natural disaster', even if it was a result of poor design, how is this collapse different? Mikenorton (talk) 13:58, 3 April 2011 (UTC)


 * There was no earthquake, there was no windstorm that it shouldn't have survived. This was poor engineering combined with poor construction and poor maintenance, and that's all.   It's not a natural disaster. - Denimadept (talk) 17:20, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Goðrmaðray
I managed something, but not quite what it says. You may like to tidy it. Moonraker2 (talk) 09:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Ben   Mac  Dui  11:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Shetland
I passed it but then read it again and posted a couple of more quibbles - should be an easy fix. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Uist
Hi MacDui. I noticed that Godred Crovan's son Lagman was called "lord of Uist" by a skald, and that Monro called the islands 'Uist' as well. Do you know when Benbecula, and the northern and southern began to be regarded as islands of their own? I noted the suggested etymologies of Benbecula, I'd be interested to know when the name first came into use.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Good questions. Given that the islands were settled in the Neolithic or earlier, (see e.g. Cladh Hallan) there is no way of knowing when separate names may first have been used. It is hard to imagine those living there for any length of time not having different names for the three isles as they extend for more than 65 km north to south and have a combined area of more than 74,500ha (about 290 square miles in old money).


 * According to Peder Gammeltoft (in Ballin Smith et al's West over Sea) there are ten place-names "borrowed into Old Norse from the indigenous peoples of the Hebrides", of which five are definitely of Gaelic origin, but that the Norse name "Ívist" (which was presumably the word used by the skald) is originally "of non-Gaelic origin, but whether or not....[it was]...transferred into Old Norse via Gaelic is unknown.". In other words "Uist" may be pre-Celtic and almost certainly pre-dates the Norse expansion.


 * Benbecula is a different issue altogether. Not mentioned by Monro, it is also omitted by Lord Viscount Dundee in his 1704 Memoirs, which includes a sort of updated version of Monro's list. John of Islay's wife Amie MacRuari is said to have built Borve Castle, Benbecula in the mid 14th century, but I don't have any primary sources for this that may or may not mention "Benbecula". According to Donald Gregory, Hugh MacDonald, third son of Alexander, Earl of Ross was the proprietor of "lands in Uist, Benbecula and Garmoran". He cites: Reg. of Great Seal, XIII, 185, 336, 337; XIV. 141.


 * The name "Benbecula" seems to contain a Norse element, but I fear its actual origin is lost. No idea offhand when "South Uist" is first used. I will have a further look around and I'll certainly let you know if I find anything. Ben   Mac  Dui  18:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Monro does mention Benbecula and probably North Uist. He begins by describing "this south part of Ywst" and goes on:


 * "and in the north syde of this there is ane parochin callit Buchagla, perteining to the said Clandonald. At the north end thereof the sea cuts the countrey againe, and that cutting of the sea is called Careynesse, and benorth this countrey is called Kenehnache of Ywst, that is in Englishe, the north head of Ywst,"


 * If you search for "Buchagla" you will get google hits stating it is Benbecula and according to the Jan 1866 Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries Beandmoyll, Beanweall, and Benvalgha are other variants found  "in charters".


 * Old maps are not that helpful. Nicholas de Nicolay's map based on information collected in 1540 shows the outline of the islands quite well, but just gives the name 'Ewist" with a few small hard-to-read placenames. Pont's later map covers only a frustratingly small part of South Uist. See http://maps.nls.uk/pont/specialist/pont36r.html. I also came across On the Fomorians and the Norsemen by Duald MacFirbis which isn't available on line but sounds interesting.  Ben   Mac  Dui  08:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I just remembered this source for certain placenames: just plug a placename instead of the three stars -> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O40-***.html (the reason I plug in a placename manually is because with certain names it redirects to another url). So it appears that the first record of name is Beanbeacla in 1449 (A Dictionary of British Place-Names). I Googled that and came across this old but useful book (see page 32 for early occurrences of Benbecula). A quick search on GoogleBook shows that the 1449 reference was a grant of lands from John of Islay, Earl of Ross to the Hugh you mentioned. I've come across the Fomorians book before, it's also on Archive.org .--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:42, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * OK and thanks for these links. I have plugged the Beanbeacla reference into the Benbecula article already. Ben   Mac  Dui  10:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not certain that you've read this. There's this paper co-authored by Woolf that I've used for Lagman and Godred Olafsson -> "Cille Donnain: a late Norse church in South Uist". You've just gotta skim through the archaeology stuff to find Woolf's take on things. Page 346 and downwards is the bulk of it I think, but there are little bits laced through before that.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:38, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No I hadn't ( and it's kind of you to be diplomatic). Fascinating stuff and coming in parallel with the Thomas paper I just cited on Amie's page I can see I might have to take some further interest in these old ruins (meaning the archaeology). The suggested disconnection from Man and the further ecclesiastical evidence - alongside placenames - of the differing cultures of the north and south isles is intriguing. Ben   Mac  Dui  14:13, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Main verb
I'm not sure who's right re that Hebrides caption: i.e. is "X leaving Y" a sentence with a main verb? I'd say that it isn't (it would need to be "X is leaving Y" to qualify as such), but perhaps it is ... Ericoides (talk) 08:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I don't know for sure - I guess it hinges on the definition of a "complete sentence". If you come across anything definitive I'd be happy to know of it. Cheers, Ben   Mac  Dui  08:43, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've asked Moonraker2 to chip in... (for clarification, the question is whether this caption should have a full-stop at the end (i.e. whether "leaving" counts as a main verb): "The Caledonian MacBrayne ferry MV Hebrides leaving Lochmaddy, North Uist en route for Skye". Ericoides (talk) 10:09, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent. The more the merrier! Ben   Mac  Dui  17:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I can see why Ericoides has thrown down the gauntlet over this. Of course, picture captions almost always have no main verb, and indeed this one is formed just like most slightly longer captions. Ben MacDui was quoting from Manual of Style, and I agree with what it says, but I'm inclined to think this caption isn't a "complete sentence". If we were dealing with only "Helen leaving Sparta", or "MV Hebrides leaving Lochmaddy" then we can probably agree those aren't complete sentences, just typical captions. Full stops clearly aren't needed after straightforward captions, but where a comma is called for in the middle of one, then even if MOS doesn't say so my own instinct is that a full stop looks better than leaving the comma hanging. I'm having trouble with this, because for a caption I wouldn't use "Imperial College, Inverness." All the same, here I should say either "The Caledonian MacBrayne ferry MV Hebrides leaving Lochmaddy for Skye" or "The Caledonian MacBrayne ferry MV Hebrides leaving Lochmaddy, North Uist, for Skye." I don't fully understand why the second looks better with the full stop, so I should use a version with no need for commas.
 * NB, I dropped en route, which doesn't seem to add anything. Moonraker2 (talk) 03:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for popping over, M2. I really can't see the visual problem in your second – hanging comma – example. I don't find that those commas hang. Perhaps it's just a question of taste. But your compromise caption on the Hebrides page works well. Ericoides (talk) 06:35, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Redirects
You're wasting your time fixing redirects. If you leave them they get fixed pretty quickly by a bot. Hence I never bother with them. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 18:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I did come across the bot only recently, and hopefully it can be called into action at "Kingdom of x", but I didn't want dbl redirects potentially going to the main page. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Amie MacRuari
The DYK project (nominate) 06:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

User:Jack Merridew/monobook.js
Hi. Please undelete the above; it was just restored per my request at: And please back up a rev to remove the del-tag; I can't edit it via this account.
 * User talk:John Vandenberg

Thanks, Barong 08:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Ben   Mac  Dui  08:56, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * terima kasih Barong 09:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Rubha an Dùnain
Hello! Your submission of Rubha an Dùnain at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  — Toдor Boжinov — 10:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review - issue now progressed. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and one other question on DYK
Thank you for changing the hook! I am still learning many details about Wikipedia editing, method and culture. One question, you said "better to have amended than...but not worth to do again" How to amend correctly for future? I am sorry, but that page instructions are very helpful but still I am not understanding all the ins and outs. It is most likely something supremely obvious that I am missing. Thank you again for your time. Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * All I meant was that it is usual to leave the original in place, possibly striking out the words and leave the revised version in place, so that there is a more logical flow for a first-time reader - but it's a small point and no matter either way. Ben   Mac  Dui  17:58, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

shard -> sherd
I think the change from shard to sherd by the anonymous editor in the St Kilda article was because of what's said in sherd. However, the information in that article is taken from a merriam-webster reference and the OED says that a shard is a piece of broken pottery or other brittle substance. Under 'sherd' it just says it's a variation of shard. I think sherd is an Americanism. Richerman (talk) 21:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that 'shard' is much the more usual spelling. The OED has its definition under "shard | sherd" and says 'sherd' is a Middle English form, quoting Lydgate: "The other twayen was elle aferd, They sparyd nethe stylle ne sherd" (Minor Poems, Percy Soc., p. 114). It seems that shard and sherd were at first simply spellings representing the same sound, as with parson and person. 'Potsherd | potshard' is derived from 'pot' and 'shard/sherd', and in that combination the 'sherd' form predominates. Moonraker2 (talk) 23:10, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I don't know what the motivation of the IP editor was, but it is not the most common form in GB English at least. Ben   Mac  Dui  09:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Rubha an Dùnain
Materialscientist (talk) 06:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Scottish Government Directorates
Afraid sorting out the articles for the component parts of the Scottish Government is a daunting task. It used to be easy, pre-2007, when the Scottish Government was made up of Departments (which were in turn made up of Groups, then Divisions, then Branches - give or take a few oddities). But since 2007, the Department level of the structure has been removed, although the Directors-General who were formerly Department heads have been retained. For pay and rations purposes, and some bits of organisation, things are routed through DGs, but the theory is that the Directorate is the new building block of the organisation.

Unfortunately this is hard to represent on Wikipedia. Previously there were a half-dozen articles corresponding to the Departments. But creating individual articles for each Directorate would be overkill. When someone mistakenly tried to equate old Departments with new Directorates some time ago, I tried to adjust the articles to show that they related to groupings of Directorates rather than an individual Directorate. The most recent changes to the SG article seemed to be falling back into the old Department=Directorate trap. So while, strictly speaking, there is no such entity as the "Scottish Government Learning and Justice Directorates" etc, it at least follows the format set out at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Directorates showing which Directors report to which DGs, and it provides a convenient structure. There's a fair amount of change going on, with various Directorates being renamed or restructured (we have fun trying to keep the signs up-to-date). And there are always some bits that just don't fit - I currently report to two different Directors, who in turn report to two different DGs.George Burgess (talk) 21:01, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I do hear that senior civil servants are happy with the move from "silos" to a more integrated system, but it is certainly perplexing to the uninitiated. I think the following are "to do":
 * Fix the articles that exist so that they are of the style "SG Finance Directorate s "
 * Create those that don't exist.
 * Fix links in Template:Scottish Executive Departments
 * Ideally have a cited comment that explains the whole concept at Directorates of the Scottish Government (which needs a complete revamp).


 * I have another question. Is there any meaningful direct relationship between the ministers and the super-Directorates or has that gone by the board too? By this I mean does e.g. John Swinney effectively have a political oversight of the Finance Directorates? See also Scottish Government Environment Directorates. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:27, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

No simple direct relationship between Minister and Directorates exists, but that is not new, with plenty of examples back in the Departmental days of a Department serving more than one Minister, and a Minister being served by more than one Department. Prior to the 2011 election, there would have been a reasonably good correspondence between Finance and John Swinney, but now some of the areas under DG Finance report to Alex Neil (eg on infrastructure investment). To add a bit of extra complexity, most of the finance function reporting to DG Finance is not organised into Directorates, with the Procurement & Commercial Directorate being the only true Directorate in that area.--George Burgess (talk) 21:19, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarifying this. No doubt interesting to work in but it makes it harder to describe and find RSs for. Cheers. Ben   Mac  Dui  09:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Notice any omissions?
--Mais oui! (talk) 06:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * List of legislatures by country
 * One or two banana constituent countries seem to be absent. It's not like you to be shy - do you need some assistance with list formatting? Happy to oblige if so. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "assistance with list formatting" -> yes please! I cannot see a convenient template there to copy n paste, so suggestions as to best fashion to add the relevant info gratefully received. Shyness must set in after 40..... --Mais oui! (talk) 07:54, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look asap - hopefully tonite. Must dash - I have a summit to go to :) Ben   Mac  Dui  07:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

You would add something like:
 * valign=top|🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 scotland
 * colspan=2| Scottish Parliament

between Sark and Sint Maarten. If you copy the above in edit mode you'll see it more clearly - but don't copy the "nowiki" tags.

If you edit the section "Legislatures of non sovereign countries, dependencies and other territories" it will look really weird if you preview it because some of the formatting isn't in that section. If you edit the entire "List of legislatures" section you will be able to see the effect in preview mode.

Please avoid the temptation to list it between Saudi Arabia and Senegal as that would be a shade premature. I'll watch the page for the time being. Ben  Mac  Dui  19:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK issue in April Fool's Day queue
I reviewed the article and hook and request that you attempt to provide a better link for the Funzie Girt dyke if possible. It's an interesting article and a funny hook!  Royal broil  13:11, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

About Hari Mohann Kansal
Hi MacDui!

I was about to restart Talk:Hari Mohann Kansal, then noticed this:"contribs) deleted 'Talk:Hari Mohann Kansal' ‎ (G8: Talk page of a deleted page)" My guess is you may well have deleted Hari Mohann Kansal at the same time. I'm leery of simply WP:A7-ing since bare significance - such as it is - has been asserted. Your thoughts?

--Shirt58 (talk) 11:00, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I did indeed and it was an A7. By all means Prod it if you prefer. User:Ben MacDui
 * Aye. Tak tae yisel the morn.--Shirt58 (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What I meant (prev. edit) was - I don't quite understand your banter, but no matter. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:47, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hebrides
Don't mention it. It's a very interesting article about one of the best parts of the country. I realise I'm new and so I suppose I'm still keen! Actually I do a lot of review work professionally of dry technical stuff so it's nice to be able to review something that has variety and life in it. Best of luck. --Mykleavens (talk) 09:25, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Shameless canvassing for the Soapdish
Hi MacDui, I noticed your comment here and thought you may want to make your feelings known here: User talk:Catfish Jim/Petition. Best, Daicaregos (talk) 18:03, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks...
...for the review of Raglan Castle. Much appreciated! Hchc2009 (talk) 17:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

You are very welcome. A fine article. Ben  Mac  Dui  09:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Letocetum GA Review
I don't know if this is the way to contact the reviewer as i am a newbie to the GA review. Anyhow thank you for taking the time to review it, it was most helpful. I have done many edits to it and hope its up to standard, there were a few points i needed a bit more guidance on. Would you mind having another look and giving me any pointers on what there is left to do. Bs0u10e01 (talk —Preceding undated comment added 21:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC).


 * Absolutely fine to contact me. I will take a close look in the next couple of days. Ben   Mac  Dui  20:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Northern Isle
Hi Ben MacDui. Thanks for your note. I followed the trail and I do see the reason, but was not previously aware of what happening elsewhere. No I found the article interesting, I last went to Shetland on the P&O Ferry from Aberdeen, which somewhat dates my visit, and my last visit to Orkney was on the 700th anniversary of the death of the Maid of Norway, ditto. I must do both visits again (but a different mode of transport). I don't tend to submit, having completed 392 GAN reviews in three years, and four more reviews underway, does not leave much time to write anything; but thanks very much for the offer. I hope the FAC concludes well. Pyrotec (talk) 15:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - & I hope you get to visit again soon. I am not long back from Orkney myself, where I was lucky enough to discover a new inhabited island! Ben  Mac  Dui  16:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Vandal watching....
... my pleasure -- Gavin Perch talk  16:37, 22 June 2011 (UTC)