User talk:Beneaththelandslide/Archive3

'''This is inactive discussion. Please do not edit it.'''

Easter @ the Christianity Portal
Hey there Beneaththelandslide! Thanks for your support of the "Happy easter" message on the portal page. Still, its removal doesn't really matter that much, and I guess that cyberjunkie meant well - he started the featured portal process so maybe he thinks the message lessens the professionalism of the portal or something. Anyway, have a blessed, safe and relaxing Easter, and I hope to see you round! Cheers, Brisvegas 11:36, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiCommies
Thanks. Feel free to come and help. Adam 04:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Hey people! New to wikipedia, got a message to leave a note on here so i'm hoping i'm doing it the right way :P In regards to the work on the politics articles, i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic! I know i'd be, they were by no means wikified and were only small contributions. I have made contributions (re: politics) to the 2006 election page, the legislative council page (to include info on the 2010 referrendum to abolish the legislative council (upper house)), lindsay simmons, and anne bressington's page. I have an interest in politics and tend to sway more to the left. In state politics, although whilst I do feel Rann is a populist leader who hasn't really done all that much, he's still the better choice for this election. The state liberals are a joke. It's a pity that family first holds two legislative council positions, although Nick Xenophon may help somewhat - but Bressington's views aren't known too well so that's another factor all together. I feel sorry for the Democrats and all the infighting that occured after Meg Lees agreed to the GST which has lead to their demise. The Greens are picking up their vote, let's see if they can do something more than blow hot air. In regards to federal politics, whilst I still vote Labor (because theres simply no way I can vote for a government who gets involved in such activities as Iraq, IR, VSU, etc) I think that Beazley is a weak man and needs to go for the sake of his party and the 07/08 election. A strong leader would have labor in front by a mile after the IR reforms - but no, we have baby beazley. Rudd is too uptight, and I don't think Australians would be ready for a woman PM like Gillard. I'm sure as time goes on I will contribute more to wiki politics on both tiers of Australian government. My 2c :) Timeshift 05:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to say hi.
Hey I'm the guy who 'vandelised' the Glenunga High School page a long time ago. You might not remember me, but I just wanted to say hi, and I hope to join the Adelaide project soon. Darkcraft 14:50, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * May I have some help? I am considering starting a page on the Westfield Marion shopping centre. What do I do? Mention it in the Adelaide project's discussion page? Just go ahead and write it? Or should I wait unitl I'm a bit more experienced before I make a page? Am I right in saying that only administrators can make new pages? Sorry about all these newb questions. Darkcraft 09:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for helping me. Darkcraft 09:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps...no.
You exhort me to create a user profile, why? 198.208.16.221 08:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for the clarification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.208.16.221 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC).

A city can be suburb as well
What about places such as Elizabeth in your home city? That's a city in its own right but also a suburb of Adelaide. Pnatt 15:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I'm happy to talk about. I think that Cranbourne should be considered a city in it's own right. I realized that there's really no such thing as a 'city suburb'. Although Cranbourne is in the Metropolitan Area of Melbourne, it's often referred to as a city. I was thinking of putting "Cranbourne is a city in the Melbourne Metropolitan area, etc, etc. Pnatt 15:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

There's no city called "Casey" that's just the name of the council. Cranbourne is a city, end of story. Pnatt 15:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but "City of Casey" refers to the municipality. City used in municipality names doesn't reflect that suburbs within the municipality are part of the city just because of the fancy name of the municipality. Pnatt 15:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you have proof? Pnatt 15:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, Cranbourne is a city and I'm not baseing that on the former "Shire of Cranbourne" Pnatt 16:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I know that Cranbourne is a city Pnatt 16:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

If you read the Cranbourne article you'll notice that it mentions it is a city. And that wasn't written by me. Pnatt 16:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Schools in Cranbourne include St Peters College, St Agatha's Catholic School, Cranbourne Secondary College, Cranbourne Christian Community College, Cranbourne Primary School, Cranbourne West Primary School, Rangebank Primary School and Cranbourne Specialist School. Chisholm TAFE also has a campus in Cranbourne, to the city's east. Pnatt 16:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I never said that I think Cranbourne is a city in the form of a local government area. I know that it's in the City of Casey which is a municipality, NOT a city. Cranbourne is a suburb of Melbourne however it's ALSO a city in its own right. Pnatt 16:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Edits
You said I have not contributed constructive things so far. I disagree. I have several oustanding additions that nobody has found fit to revert or change. Regards

History of Burnside
All I can suggest is that rather than a list of references at the end, specifically referencing assertions. Xtra 11:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Time permitting, I'd be happy to. It looks fairly good from a glance over. Thanks, --cj | talk 04:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

T.B. Penfold of Magill
Hi Michael I was reading your featured article nomination on the history of Burnside, If I read between the lines and some of the articles linked within the article is TB Penfold the person who founded Penfolds Winery (arguably Australias Best) definately it best known, which was first situated in Wattle Park, dont you think this is worthy of a mention.. Gnangarra 16:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Burnside Map
I would like: 


 * The shape of the city traced from the blue lines and given a slight tint inside
 * For roads (red) to be traced through
 * For road labels to be outside the shape itself
 * A good colour scheme (I have no idea what would look good/suit)

''Does that make sense? Thanks for the offer to do this, cheers! michael talk 03:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)''


 * Here's the image, added to commons. I kept the unflattened Photoshop source file in case I made a mistake or you want to change the colour scheme. Michael, if you want the source file, please email me. &mdash; Донама 06:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Re-export later today, Michael... Do you want any colour changes while I'm at it? &mdash; Донама 03:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Updated the JPG (right) and exported as PNG too (left) -- take your pick and perhaps put a delete tag on the one you don't want. Cheers! &mdash; Донама 14:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:User South Australia
Thanks for pointing me to the suburb info box you use. You might want to tack on the above mentioned userbox to your profile also :) Enigmatical 06:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I was told to come here if i live in Adelaide.
it just so happens that i do, and i can help out by doing stuff for Wikipedia about Adelaide.

Just before i got your message I edited the Aberfoyle Park page a slight bit.

Also, I could do an article on St John's Grammar, a school in Belair

Your message
Sure, Michael; I was, in fact, just looking at your user page (it's should be its, sorry ).

You already write very well for an 18-year-old; I don't mean that as a put-down of young people, but writing well is really really hard. If you keep at it for years, you'll be a very good writer.

It's a pity that you've had to run the gauntlet with a professional editor, but hey, that's the real world. Tony 11:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I can see exactly where you're coming from but if that viewis widespread amongst "professional editors" I do question whether I should even bother editing at all. michael talk 11:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Mt Osmond Aboriginal Culture
Mi Michael, I'm a Mt Osmond resident, and I tripped over the Mt Osmond page that looks like it's mostly your (very well done) work. It's good to see such a comprehensive effort for such a small place as this, thanks.

I did find something that grated though, and it was in the "Aboriginal Culture" section. "The Kaurna people were Stone-Age hunter gatherers..." This is a sentiment shared by western culture upon first encountering Australian Aboriginals, but it has been roundly dis-proven, and is an un-necesary comment in an otherwise useful topic. I took it out, hope you don't mind. Did you lift that description from anywhere? What is the history of that section, I couldn't find anything apart from it's appearance in January..

Anyway, thanks for a top effort.

ps. Have you walked overland between Mt Osmond and Waterfall Gully? I'm interested to do so, but I'm having trouble finding information on tracks to take. Any idea? Regards, Michael

pps. I notice the stone-age reference is on Hazelwood Park as well. I can fix it, but I'd rather hear from you first...

Mi Michael, I eventually found your response on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:202.6.138.34#Stone_Age

Seems strange that you did not answer here, it makes the converstation somewhat disjointed, but never mind.

My understanding of Stone Age is different to yours, and I think if any people of Aboriginal descent read your description of the Kaurna people as 'Stone Age' they would be roundly insulted. Stone Age refers to pre-historic man, and ignores other development that might have taken place in a society beyond that which might have occurred to our ancestors while they were living in caves. In fact, a simple search on wikipedia would suggest that it has fallen out of favor because it is a term used to discuss a period that occurred before the bronze age in Europe, and may not be appropriate to be used on other cultures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_age#Modern_use_of_the_term

I'm definitely not going to get into an edit fight about it, but I respectfully suggest that to use the term on these pages is really an editorial comment now contained within wikipedia that is inappropriate and should be removed. It suggests a disregard of Aboriginal culture. You're not alone, but I think you are mistaken :)

Moving along, I walked Waterfall gully to Mt Lofty today via Cleland, and picked up a trail map from the Gully Cafe. I think it will help with basic navigation between Mt Osmond and Waterfall gully. I've posted some photos of my trips to the gully in my photo blog at www.bellavist.com

I'll think about the account thing, thanks for suggesting it. And please do not take this critisism of stone age as general. I respect your work and effort.

Thanks,

Michael


 * Apologies if I seemded to replyin the wrong place; I typically reply on the other's talk page, and in your case this was the talk page of your IP address. Your photoblog is nice, some good photos there - nice work! Again, please feel free to sign up and help out! michael talk 15:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for explaining, I can see how that would help a registered user keep track of comings and goings :) Do you see my point about Stone Age yet? Are you happy for me to remove it? Thanks for the comment about the photos, I aim to build a library of them from the adjacent natural areas over time. I haven't decided about signing up, not sure what I could/would contribute, but I'm thinking about that. Regards, Michael


 * I completely disagree relating to the Stone Age thing but it's not a point worth arguing over. michael talk 02:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Also not interested in arguing about it, but happy to discuss. The point is that upon first inspection, western people could see no difference between what they thought of as Stone Age people and the Australian Aborigines. As you point out, this was reported in 19th century History books, but it has since changed, and not because of a wish to 'sugar coat' the activities of the Aboriginal Population. It has changed because we understand a whole lot more about them since then, and we have learned about their culture, and we have learned to treat them with respect and afford them dignity as fellow humans on this planet.


 * If your reference to the Stone Age was qualified as the first impression of visitors several hundred years ago, then it may be acceptable, but the wikipedia is about what we know now. It is incorrect both factually and culturally to describe the Kaurna people as 'Stone Age' as well as insensitive to their race. As already pointed out, the Wikipedia itself supports my position, as would many scholars of Australian History and Aboriginal Culture.


 * If you really cannot or will not discuss this issue I have with your otherwise good efforts, then I suggest the reference be taken out. Should you feel that I am a lone voice offering an incorrect viewpoint, I can bring people into the discussion who could be considered authorities on the subject of Aboriginal Culture. My own exposure has been sufficient to know that a label of 'Stone Age' is unjustified. regards, Michael


 * Feel free to remove it, its obvious my view (pov) doesn't agree with consensus and therefore the text warrants a change. Anything objectionable can be changed / edited accordingly, I'm very grateful when people talk before actions though (thanks!). Again, feel free to remove it. michael talk 04:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Michael. I've noticed that you have been having problems with shared IP blocking via Adam internet on wikipedia. Have you spoken to Adam about this? They might be able to make an exception to the proxy for wikipedia and thus avoid the problem of vandals blocking your access to editing. Regards, Michael.


 * I didn't know they could do such a thing! In this case I might fire off an email tomorrow - it does get extremely annoying at times... You're a fellow Adam user if I'm correct? Gotta love high-speed ADSL2+ ;)! michael talk 15:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Marion
(copied from editor review page, was behind a blocked proxy when comments were made)

Hi, Beneaththelandslide,

Just thought I'd mention how surprised I was to see myself described as 'a vocal Australian atheist'! I'm a confirmed member of the Uniting Church in Australia, currently worship at St Peters Anglican in Wellington and regularly speak to church groups (though those who know me best might say I'm seldom so vocal as when singing in the church choir!)

Cheers,

Marion Maddox


 * I will see to changing that as soon as possible (as of writing, currently behind a blocked proxy and unable to edit articles) if you or another editor does not make the change. In all honesty, I was simply told that by a politics teacher where I am currently studying and trusted their judgement. I do apologise for this, especially if it has damaged your credibility. Thankyou for alerting me (and wikipedia) to this. michael talk 02:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have corrected the article. Where you studying Michael?--cj | talk 05:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Marden Senior College. Part time work / part time schooling to up my TER. michael talk 06:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletions
I made a mistake and deleted talk pages, when I meant to RV the Article Sorry about that. TrulyTory 18:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Tusmore
Yes. I lived in 64 Northumberland Ave. Adelaide is a nice city. Wallie 07:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment and barnstar
I just wanted to say a big thank you for the kind words and barnstar you left on my talk page. I'm actually quite surprised that given your work on Adelaide related articles you haven't received one yet (I'd present one myself now but it may look like we are simply swapping barnstars). Keep up the good work. --Roisterer 08:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Need your help for Mormonism portal
I´m not registered at wikipedia. So I can not start the creation of the Mormonism portal. Please Beneaththelandslide, start this portal. I will contribute when it is possible for unregistered wikipedians. 84.146.201.207 16:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi Michael. Thanks for the wishes, although I had to do a bit of a cover-up. Anyway, you might want to look at Portal:Australia/Anniversaries and add stuff which you think is relevant. Hopefully once there is enough stuff, there will be a section for it on the front of the portal. Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thankyou Michael for twice informing admins to unblock me. Also, I guess it might continue for a while - there are a lot of disgruntled first year physics students out there I guess.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 03:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Michael Wilson
I went to the redlink and clicked "whatlinkshere" - and it shows me that I linked it in from Electoral district of Torrens. He was a Liberal. Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 05:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC).

Britannia Corner
Thanks for the offer of help with this editing. I was actually looking up the Britannia roundabout and noticed that the article about Fullarton road was not fully correct. At the moment I'm working on a project ragarding Britannia roundabout, and probably could write something decent about it. How do you go about putting in pictures? I don't have any of my own at the moment, can we do links to other places on the web? D.Tzumli 13:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Sydney
ha ha - we had the same goal but different methods with the sydney article. I tried to fix it by incremental micro-surgery but you went the quick nuke option. Maybe that john guy needs to get his own web site devoted to sydney. I will check out those links. I suspect that john will not give up easily. maybe we could dig up a few sydney-is-the-best forums for him to set up his soapbox and distract him. ;) --Merbabu 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

O-Bahn Map
You've done an incredibly detailed article there. I'll see what I can do. As usual, I can't do it straight away though. I might just start from scratch from Google earth, but your idea of tipping the map 45 degrees to the northwest is a good idea. I think we can mark the route, the stations and interchanges and then the remaining route into the CBD with dotted lines with a shape to show the CBD itself. Let me know if you have any further thoughts. &mdash; Donama 02:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Help Please
I'm not sure what to do. I had looked up Tar (file format) and there is a message there saying that the article needs a clean up to meet the quality standards. I think it's pretty good. How do I give such feedback to the person who will take the alert off. D.Tzumli 12:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Unblock
Did this work? Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 00:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC).
 * Did it work this time? Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 03:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Removing distance from Template:Austsuburb
I would be interested to know why you removed it. Is there a specific reason? I certainly don't consider the section irrelevant, and how on earth is it innapropriate?!?! It has just as much relevance and appropriateness as having the number of people who are living there. Enigmatical 04:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

When you press the + button next to "edit" it automatically starts you at the bottom of the page. Maybe consider a diferent format. Xtra 05:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Michael, I believe that Cyberjunkie will be along shortly on your talk page to quote to you about your error in telling me about a change you made to the template. "Apparently" its against the rules, and as he is very fond of quoting rules to people, "good faith" would suggest that he informs you of this as well. Enigmatical 23:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Further explaination
Perhaps I need to explain this further. I used your Waterfall Gully article as the basis for creating the template in the first place, then added what I personally considered to be useful information. I call it useful because it has been my experience when people look for suburbs to live in, one of the key features is "how quickly can I get to town?". This is because a large percentage of people actually work within the main CBD. Thus it seems monumentally important to have this figure which gives people an indication of exactly how long their morning commute is. Now you have called this irrelevant, redundant, and now that it means absolutely nothing. What I find incredibly hypocritical however is that you tell me I should argue the point for having it included, so why shouldn't you argue the point for having it removed? It seems to me that it does actually make sense, and if you think it doesn't then argue the point instead of just removing it.

Just to provide additional supporting information (because both yourself and CJ seem to be very sparce in any reasoning given other than just throwing adjectives at it), explain to me how the population from 5 years ago is actually more relevant than the time it takes to get to the major city? What is worse is that the information is not even for Waterfall Gully.. but instead is for the entire POST CODE (if I am reading the census data correctly)... as well as the Median property value. This means that both figures are grossly innacurate, both in the fact they fail to tell a person how many people are there now (people could have moved out and the entire suburb could be empty in 5 years), or it could have boomed. Likewise, the median property value could be incredibly skewed due to the other suburbs within the same post code... and in this case I believe Burnside is one of them. So is $510,000 a median value for Waterfall Gully? I think not...

So I hope you can understand my shock and possible displeasure at being told my addition means absolutely nothing, having it removed wholesale only to see even worse information listed and now I am told I have to argue to get it put back in!!!!

So where is this "good faith" from your behalf? Why not take it on good faith that there may be some benefit in the information being provided and see how you can add to it rather than arbitrarily remove it with an excuse of "irrelevant and inappropriate"???? I have no problem with people mercilessly editing an article, you will notice I have several articles which have been modified... I just take exception to people who do so with immediately inflamable comments, then throw rules in my face only to break them constnatly in the process... smacks incredibly of hypocricy to me and certainly isn't what I would call polite or beneficial to wikipedia. Now if you dispute the validity of this piece of information, why not raise it for discussion instead of taking it out? It seems only fair considering you are doing the exact same thing to me? Enigmatical 05:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Implicit end of talk page box
As you can see, by removing the |} from the end of your talk page, the box will close implicitly after all the text, thereby avoiding the issues with people placing stuff at the end of the page. --Evan C (Talk) 09:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion
Are you able to help me fix up the copyright bits for the images on the 2006 election page? I've tried reading the wikies and looking at the victorian page but I'm not sure if I can use the same license they do. The uploaded images they claim as their own? I'm not sure on this. Their two party leaders and two electoral boundary pictures all have approval on the victorian 2006 election page, how can I do the equivelent for the SA 2006 election page? Timeshift 23:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: thanks
No problem - when I noticed your problem it just occured to me, so I tested it and it worked! --Evan C (Talk) 03:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

conservatism
Conservatism, as the article reflects, means different things to different people. One strong strain of conservatism is the preservation of a state religion, a landed upper class, and a hereditary aristocracy. You object that one of my quotes isn't even "modern". But the article is not about "modern conservatism" but about conservatism throughout history. Instead of just rejecting the "criticisms of conservatism" section out of hand, let's discuss it in the appropriate talk page. Meanwhile, I'll continue to add the references you requested. Rick Norwood 14:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

You have done a lot of good work in Wikipedia on Australian articles, but I think your assertions that my contributions to Conservatism are POV are unfounded. In any case, I am working with others to eliminate POV from the section in question, and to carefully provide appropriate references for everything. Rick Norwood 14:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar of Diligence
Man, why are Australian editors so reluctant to acknowledge one another?

program vs programme
This is from the Heinemann Australian Student Dictionary...

LANGUAGE NOTE: Program or Programme? In recent times the shorter of the two spellings has become dominant and is to be preferred because it reflects a more common form of words in English such as telegram, diagram and anagram. "Program" was considered to be an imported Americanism. The "me" was not attached to this word in English until the 1800s, however, and lingers as an unnecessary embellishment, perhaps reflecting the Greek "programma" meaning "public written notice"), from which the modern word is derived. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pnatt (talk • contribs) 23:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC).


 * Program is also used throughout the article and spellings are supposed to be matched in the same article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pnatt (talk • contribs) 23:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC).

But the spelling of words in the article have to match. Both program and programme are used interchangeably in the article. Pnatt 13:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"Program" is the preferable spelling, like it or not. Pnatt 13:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)