User talk:BenevolentBeast

Modern Loneliness
Greetings Matthew

The reason I moved that second section lower Matthew is that I felt the intro was too long anyway. Usually that type of material we place in "background" section. But now I realize the subject matter of this song particularly what he tries to convey in the music video is very relevant in this case, so it is well worth placing after all in the intro, which I have now done reversing my edit, although in general such material belongs to the background section. The examples of the other two songs was relevant and I have reconsidered my edit and reinstated it.
 * Move of paragraph from intro

You have done a wonderful job Matt for a brilliant song and clearly a very talented singer songwriter. He has this aura about him that one brief look, and you are impacted by his personality. And you get hooked to what he's gonna say. So you can be proud of what you have done for a song that didn't chart very well but is far more precious than those making the Top 10 any time. I knew next to nothing about Lauv 2 days ago. But then I saw his MTV Live performance and I was captivated and checked your page on Wikipedia and made the edit. By the way, I never knew about Lauv and this is the only one I've listened to. I'll rectify it later when I have time, but for now I want this song to sink in if you know what I mean. I don't want to dilute my pleasure with other songs of his. This is sublime enough and now I've seen like 10-15 different takes and its amazing.

But still I have strong feelings about some excerpts which I personally do not feel really belong there in an intro. For example: " It received mixed reviews from critics with a consensus view on what it stands for." Sure... But anything receives mixed reviews. Why highlight this in an intro? This is just a subjective view of some "experts". Also the whole sentence is not "well written". It is a huge downer for me. Or for example this which is borderline "trivia" stuff unfit of an intro: "Fans were featured on the video as well, with some dancing with him to the track, and others through making a cover of the song." Doesn't add much to what the essence of the song is. Me I would have put this interactive thing with fans in the "music video" section instead where it belongs.
 * Reservations

My suggestion is to keep second paragraph more simple like:

QUOTE: A song revolving around feeling lonely in the modern age, the lyrics express that although people are more connected than ever due to the rise of social media, this connection still has its negative effects as most are not genuine and does not replace real-life relationships. The accompanying music video revolved around Lauv using social media but not feeling happy nor positive while using it, relating to its lyrics. The single peaked at number 14 on Billboard's US Bubbling Under Hot 100 chart. UNQUOTE

and relegate the more offbeat comments lower... But that's just me. Give it a thought and do what you feel is appropriate.

Already what you have done Matthew is tremendous for any song in Wikipedia. This is already impressive beyond belief. The length you have gone to for a worthy coverage is mind boggling. It is a "labour of love" actually and very much worthwhile. I am sure it was greatly rewarding and gratifying to you personally and you'll remember this edit many years from now as one of your "high points" in editing.

But I would add, if I were you, I would add some significant performances of the song in "Appearances" new section on the page. For example his appearance in Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon here. This is highly significant. You can mention the whole setting in this performance, singing in the public, then in a couch setting with what you think are actors, then suddenly they become this fascinating backing vocalists, then the standing ovation.
 * Appearances

Another very notable performance that needs to be included is the MTV Live performance here. Actually this was the first time I heard the song and it is being put on MTV Europe video programming all over Europe. The British MTV has put it in their Top 40 show in the UK as a possible coming hit. Known as "Modern Loneliness (MTV Live Performance)", this version has become, at least in UK and European continent, an "official live version" of the song for obvious reasons, even more so than the actual music video itself. I dedicate this particular MTV performance to you for your profound work on this song in Wikipedia.

Also significant is the "Modern Loneliness" Acoustic (Live on MTV news) found here with no backing vocalists for a change. It is significant as it is a national broadcast.

Other significant appearances which can be mentioned in passing on the page is performance during the Rolling Stone "In My Room" IGTV series here and in GMA here. There's also the Album Release Party performance with IHeartRadio LiveXLive here

All these "appearances" would make a wonderful two three sentences to highlight media presence and impact.

I just love the section "Critical reception" section. You have done huge research in tens of publications and media outlets and it is just perfect. I reread it three more times and it's amazing. I also went through some of the actual articles you quote to read what actually they were saying.
 * Lyrics

About the explanation of the lyrics, its good you point out song is about online connections and loneliness. You highlight " "Modern loneliness, we're never alone / But always depressed, yeah / Love my friends to death / But I never call and I never text, yeah". But then there are part of the lyrics that relate to relationship with parents. This is not covered at all in the page which is a shame as it is central to the song. The opening lines make it very clear: "I've been thinkin' 'bout my father lately / The person that he made me / The person I've become / And I've been tryna fill all of this empty / But, fuck, I'm still so empty" He comes back to this parental subject yet again later when he sings "If I could break my DNA to pieces / Rid of all my demons / If I could cleanse my soul / Then I could fill the world with all my problems / But, shit, that wouldn't solve them / So, I'm left here alone" There was clearly some huge parental impact that has had some life changing impact on this guy. So "DNA" enslaves us with our "demons" and we realize you can't solve it. He also says: "The baggage in my heart is still so dark" (Baggage usually refers to what you get from parents that stick with you for life). It is for a very good reason that in the official music video, there are communications with "Dad" and with "Mom". They ("mom and dad") appear at the end of the video as well in support.

So if you can find a review that tackles this "parental" aspect of the song and son-father relationship, it would also be a great addition, because this is also a majour theme in the song as well. Modern Loneliness is not just about online, but family relations, depression and mental health as well. Even if quotations could not be found, in the "Synopsis" section, a convenient sentence or two could be added about the mom and dad connection while describing the video content. Develop 2-3 sentences to what you report "Towards the end, he starts to text back his friends and family and calls his parents back." which is conveniently there. But it merits some more elaboration.

That's about it Matthew. In conclusion, I must add this communication with you is sort of a tribute to the essence of the "Modern Loneliness" lyric about online communications. Because it effected me greatly. Then I realized your communication on my talk page was so relevant and a very close call to my understanding of the song. It struck a moment in me as it dawned on me what Lauv meant with this gem. I realized you reached me through the internet as a colleague editor, an unknown "Wikipedia friend" I know nothing about, but with clear compassion and resolve to make a contact through an edit I made. And in retrospect I am happy I made it or else all this "magic moment" wouldn't have been possible really, would it? So I wanted to respond so as not to fall to the trap and mistake of "Love my friends to death / But I never call and I never text 'em". We as editors fall into this easy trap and we don't respond and even if we do, it is with bitterness and aggressiveness, a condescending wry comment, or worse, we respond with a one liner let down sentence and just move on. But for me, a communication like yours is an opportunity to prove if you are "an editor friend from Wikipedia" and you really care, as I felt you did, you do deserve my time and effort and that's what I've done as you see. I've put great thought to a way of responding adequately to make an impact as well. Plus this song has effected me tremendously as you see, and now I realize the quality of the Wikipedia article was almost this one-man effort by you to present it in the best way to readers all over the world. It is a "quality product" already. I am sure Lauv fans appreciate what you have done here as well. Hope Lauv has had the time and also has checked this piece in Wikipedia. It is very possible, and if it is, it would be amazing. You deserve a signed copy of the single at least, plus a free ticket, an invitation when he is near your town. Finally a dedication to Filipino friend, who really cares: "Para Sa 'Yo" here by a young Philippines talent Juan Karlos Labajo. For you! werldwayd (talk) 06:47, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Conclusion


 * Wow, I didn't expect a response like this. If I'm being honest, like you said, I definitely would have expected a one sentence or so response and that's it. When I saw the notification that you replied, I was amazed and was kind of happy to see really detailed feedback, and I just want to say thank you so much. When I looked at your page, I saw that you had 300k+ edits and thought, he might be a bit busy. But I really appreciate you actually taking the time to provide a lot of suggestions that I can definitely work on.


 * First off, you're right about the introduction. When I was writing the intro, I couldn't exactly come up with the right words, which is why that one sentence sounded sort of bland. I'll definitely take your suggestion on what the 2nd paragraph should look like. I'll add just a bit more info as well as I expand further into the article, if necessary. This is really my first "real" article that I've attempted to do, and I'm happy with the progress that I've made, and would love to make it better than it was before.


 * As for the appearances, I didn't even think of this part. It just slipped my mind, I guess. I never looked into Lauv's performances of the song, and didn't realize that there were quite a few notable appearances that he made on national TV. I'll make sure to add a new section focusing on that, as it's definitely a major part and could add even more detail to the article than I thought.


 * I had fun writing the critical reception section. It was interesting to see all the point-of-views of the reviewers. The reviewers add a lot of good commentary, and would definitely try to dig for more to expand the section. For the lyrics, I guess my mind may have slipped on the other meanings of the song. I guess I was just so focused on the "social media" part that I didn't bother to notice and expand on the relationship and other thoughts that he references in the lyrics. Going in deeper into the lyrics is something I will add for sure, and hopefully I'll be able to find more reviews that can support these meanings. And adding more to the music video section is probably a good idea. I was looking at other articles (for example, the one I mentioned earlier: If I Were A Boy) and they really went in-depth to capture more of the song's meaning. I love this and will incorporate these types of writing into this article.


 * Like I said earlier, I didn't expect a reply like this and I really, really appreciate it. You pointed out a lot of things that could definitely be fixed or added to make the article even better. I'm basically still new to the whole Wikipedia community; before this article, I have only made three small stubs and a start-class article. But when I remembered this song, I thought to myself—why doesn't this track have it's own page yet? It made many news articles and is one of Lauv's most important releases to date, even though like you said, it did not chart very well. What's surprising to me is it never even broke the Billboard Hot 100 chart, but that's alright I guess. What matter is the content of the song, not the success nor achievements. But anyway, this is why I decided to take the opportunity to attempt to write it.


 * Overall, I just want to say that your comments will make the article better than it ever was before. Unfortunately, I have an exam coming up in a few days, in which I have to focus on that for a bit. But rest assured, I will be doing more and more research on the song within the next few weeks. I really hope you can come back in some time to see the progress. As my first serious article, I want it to be the best it can possibly be and hopefully everything will go well.


 * Once you decide to take a look at his other songs, I know you won't be disappointed. Although I haven't gone through How I'm Feeling as much besides the 10 singles and a few songs here and there, I know it's all likely good and hopefully you'll enjoy them as well. His previous album, I Met You When I Was 18 (The Playlist) is definitely a great listen. Though most of the album is a bit emotional (with the exception of tracks 1, 2, 10, 12, and 13, which are all more upbeat), they are great songs to listen to. If you'd like, update me on that, it would be cool to see if you like his other tracks or not. But, of course, no rush and no obligation. Also, I never thought of Lauv himself possibly reading the article, but ever since one of my friends read my other article and pointed out that the artist could have possibly read it, it's weird but it makes sense. If he ever does see it, that would actually be really cool. By the way, that song you linked at the end was pretty good. I don't typically listen to much OPM but when I do, it's usually not bad.


 * I hope you have a great day in the midst of the current worldwide situation. BenevolentBeast (talk) 07:58, 16 May 2020 (UTC)


 * All the best for your exams. I have added added the cover according to this Apple page It looks awfully similar to the album cover. Perhaps it is not an actual cover and Apple is all wrong about it. But let's keep it in for now until the distributing company comes with a new cover design. If you are sure the cover is wrong though, take it off. Mind you in Europe some use this Cover in Netherlands, or in Cover in Belgium. Incidentally the page you created now has visits of between 50 and 70 views on average every day (particularly these last few days it has seen a sharp rise) (See updated visits per day) Here some Stats to make you appreciate your work. Almost 96% of the work is your text!


 * I have now added the Belgian chart peak on the table on the page by this edit. I'll keep an eye if there are more chartings in Europe. I think this will be growing with time.


 * You say the track has two videos—a visualizer and a music video. But with the two videos you mention there is a third "official video" published by Lauv on his own page "Modern Loneliness (acoustic) [Official Video]" (video here). So I think this needs a mentioned in the "Music Video" section as a third video. It has no backing vocals. Just him and the guitar.


 * Some sources you may have not used, but very relevant: MTV News, CLASH (an amazing source I must say and a precious interview), LaViasco (this goes into detail of each verse and contains good coverage of the son-father relationship), DustTalks (a great source for analysis of the lyrics - I am sure you will find a few ideas from here to cover lyrics) Summit (analysis from a Christian perspective) and so on... I could edit from these myself, but I'd rather leave them to your sensible editing. I want you to have this as a memorable magical edit page. I'll only make some nominal maintenance edits, but for development of text and content, it's yours. But exams first! This can wait. werldwayd (talk) 10:10, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

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