User talk:Benjamin Mako Hill/Archive 7

COM 597 Intro
Chris here--looking forward to seeing everyone again on Monday! Cyrrona (talk) 01:33, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Greetings! Welcome back from your travels. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your trip as I am planning a trip to China for 30 days from December 14 - January 14. Annie Anniecrawley (talk) 23:46, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I found an old class of yours through my Internship this summer at the Living Computer Museum, and was excited to hear you were offering a different graduate class this quarter. I am looking forward to applying what I learn in this class to my potential thesis work. MBlairMartin (talk) 03:32, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Alex here. Apologies for the delay on this. Looking forward to our next meeting--Dowliad (talk) 20:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I am Yixuan from cohort 15. Sorry for the late registration;)--YixuanLong (talk) 22:33, 6 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Yo. I am Elias from Cohort 15. Interesting course so far!Eliasd06 (talk) 00:59, 7 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eliasd06 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! This is Anna, also Cohort 15. Excited to dig in to some case studies!Germanna84 (talk) 05:43, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi! This is Julie (Yu). Excited about this class, looking forward! Wnini89 (talk) 06:14, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello, this is Yankun, cohort 15. Feeling great about the class so far! Ykzhao91 (talk) 08:45, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Happy Friday everyone! I am Xinqiao from Cohort 15. Busy doing our readings and found they are very helpful! --XinqiaoCheng (talk) 17:16, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

This is Paige. Liking this class already--I'm already delving in to the Talk pages across Wiki. A whole new world! Paige.vogt (talk) 05:28, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello everyone! This is Jiajia from Cohort 15. Apologies for the late registration. Looking forward to the next class:DMisuki11 (talk) 19:00, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi all! This is Jing Cai from Cohort 15. Excited to be part of this class! Hope we can learn a lot together this quarter. --Cjweik (talk) 23:45, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Hello, this is Yiyun Long, also from Cohort 15. Still working on the readings! --Yiyunl347 (talk) 00:31, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey! I'm looking forward to diving into online communities and discovering how I can apply this outside the classroom. --Mwestmillennial (talk) 01:10, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Articles for Class - COM 597
I think I'd like to take a crack at creating an article about Seattle's semi-recent "man in tree" debacle. Cyrrona (talk) 01:35, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I remember man-in-tree! Check out the policy WP:Event which is a notability of events as I think it's applies. If you feel comfortable moving forward with it given your reading of the policy and your confidence in your ability to satisfy the doubters (after all, it certainly was covered in a quite a lot of newspapers, etc), go for it. I'd certainly love reading a good encyclopedia article about the event. — m a k o ๛  00:17, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like to write an article about Inez Ryberg or Margaret Thompson, both were female archaeologists in the United States and also are part of the Edit-a-thon WikiProject Women in Red/Archaeologists that is going on in the month of October. MBlairMartin (talk) 04:09, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Either sounds great. Given your employment as a professional Wikipedian, I trust you to handle this stuff and will probably ask for your help and engagement with classmates as we all work through these assignments in the first half of the class. — m a k o ๛  00:20, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I would love to expand the article about Shenzhen Middle School, which is also my high school. I found that some informations about Shenzhen Middle School here on Wikipedia are not only outdated, but also incorrect. Wnini89 (talk) 06:30, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So, I think it would be awesome if you worked on the article on Shenzhen Middle School to fix things, correct errors, update it, etc. That said, I also really want you to have the experience of choosing a topic and writing an article from scratch because, in my experience, this is a much tougher things to do. The article on Shenzhen Middle School actually seems pretty good. Is there another article, maybe something related, that would involve starting with something that is not already so long and so established? — m a k o  ๛  00:23, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * What about I expand the article about Shenzhen Overseas Chinese Town Holding Company? This looks more like a stubby article. Wnini89 (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you think about the new topic? I may start working on the draft.
 * Thanks for pinging me again. In the flood of notificaitons I think I just lost track of your message. I'm really sorry about that. I agree that Shenzhen Overseas Chinese Town Holding Company looks stubby enough. There's also a Chinese version (zh:华侨城集团) but it looks extremely short as well. I think WP:ORG is probably the most import policy to be paying attention to. — m a k o ๛  18:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to expand a stub article on the Bridge of Glass in Tacoma, WA--Dowliad (talk) 23:45, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The article certainly looks stubby enough! It's nice that it already has the infobox and some images though. Check out the policy on WP:LOCAL which should have some sense of how to improve and frame the article. If your comfortable that you can do a good job and that the resulting article will be well received in terms of that policy — and any other relevant policies linked from that page — I'd say go ahead! — m a k o ๛  00:26, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Dowliad, I expanded the original article from an über stubby state, and am glad to hear another editor is interested in expanding it further. Good luck and feel free to ping me if there's anything I can do to assist. - Brianhe (talk) 01:01, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I decided to expand an article on National Centre for the Performing Arts (China). --XinqiaoCheng (talk) 00:37, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Why don't you look at my comments to above because I think they mostly apply here as well. The article on the National Centre for the Performing Arts (China) looks to me like it's really in quite good shape! Could maybe suggest another topic that's not already a long article with structure and such? That article may be technically classified as a stub, but it looks like a pretty useful resource already! I'm sure there are lots of ways to improve it (and you should if you're interested) but I'd really like to see you build something up from Scratch. — m a k o  ๛  00:29, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the advice professor! As we discussed after class on Monday, I switched my topic to China NCPA Concert Hall Orchestra which is listed under List of symphony orchestras in Wikipedia but not in a good shape yet (one paragraph without any references). I checked WP:MUSBIO which is the notability guideline for musicians and ensembles and found it qualified. Other than that, I am wondering if there are any other WP's policies that I should pay special attention to as well. --XinqiaoCheng (talk) 18:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there are lots of policies you should paying attention to! If you've read the student tutorial carefully and you try your best to follow it, I'm sure you'll be OK. I'll point out any issues that arise as you work on the article in your sandbox over the next few days and weeks. Be bold and try your best! — m a k o ๛  18:21, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like to write an article about Gerry Philipsen, a leader in ethnography studies and an influencer in speech code theories. -- Mwestmillennial (talk) 01:18, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This definitely sounds promising. Although Philipsen doesn't work in my field, he's emeritus faculty in our department and my sense from reading this summer to teach our PhD intro theory class is that his work has been foundational and that he very likely will quality as notable under WP's policies.
 * That said, you should know going in that creating biographies of living people can be tough and fraught. Check out WP:BIO for general rules about writing about living people. Check out WP:ACADEMIC in depth to make sure that you believe that you can make the case that Philipsen reaches the bar Wikipedia uses. My sense (without doing the research) is that he will, but you need to be comfortable in your ability to make the case. If you think you can do it, great.
 * Obviously, because he's at the same institution you are at, there's a potential for a perceived WP:COI. If you are comfortable that you can write with a WP:NPOV, I think that declaring the conflict might be enough in this case. Other Wikipedians might not agree though so be prepared and willing to argue for this. — m a k o ๛  00:34, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused at how I would properly differentiate the article from speech code theory. Would I mention his work in there, but just link to that page? -- Mwestmillennial (talk) 19:07, 14 October 2016 (UTC) 19:06, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure there's a clear answer to this other than the article on speech code theory should focus on the theory and the article should be a biography of Gerry Philipsen should focus on the person. Since Philipsen is most well-known (AFAIK) for the theory, and since the theory was created by Philipsen, the two articles should definitely discuss and link to the other. You might want to move some material out of the speech code theory article or summarize it? Why you find some other examples of theory or ideas that are closely related with a person for examples of how others have solved this on Wikipedia? 19:26, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm planning on covering an ocean topic and believe adding an article about the Women Divers Hall of Fame could be useful while helping a few stubs. I am checking to see if there are enough independent articles that would make this a valuable addition to Wikipedia. Anniecrawley (talk) 01:25, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think an article about the Women Divers Hall of Fame would be great if you are confident that you can establish notability. There are a few policies and guides that might be helpful. I would start with WP:ORG which is the one that immediately springs to mind. Take a look at it and make sure you're comfortable going forward and comfortable that you'll be able to find enough coverage in reliable sources to establish notability. If you're comfortable that you can do it, that sounds good to me. — m a k o ๛  00:40, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like to expand a stub article on one of my favorite Seattle restaurants: Beth's Cafe. -- Eliasd06 (talk) 04:13, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Great. I also love Beth's and went there quite a bit when I was in high school. I would take a look at both (a) WP:ORG which is probably the most relevant notability guidelines and (b) take a look at some databases of newspapers and other sources to get a sense of what's been published about it. Beth's is an institution in Seattle but the current stub definitely doesn't do enough to establish notability in my opinion. You'll need to do that, write quite a bit more (the article is already 2-3 paragraphs), and find references to help support the claims in that additional and new material. If you're feeling up to that and think it's all doable, go for it. — m a k o  ๛  18:11, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like to write an article about my undergraduate major Arts of Broadcasting and Anchoring in Hunan University. Although the topic Hunan University is included in Wikipedia, it doesn't contain any details of my major, which is actually very unique in China and interesting. --YixuanLong (talk) 05:12, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * We talked about this in person in class yesterday so I'll brief here. My sense is that it's unusual for an undergraduate major to have its own article in Wikipedia. It's possible, but only if that major is both notable and distinct from the university in a way that would warrant coverage in a separate article. That's possible (and I'm sure there are a few examples) but my sense is that it's not normal. I have no idea if your undergraduate major would quality under Wikipedia's notability guidelines but it's up to you to figure that out. I'm skeptical, but it's your job to try and make the case. If you think that establishing notability is going to be difficult and you want to switch topics, lets discuss it here. — m a k o ๛  18:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I decided to switch to another new topic for Mango TV, which is an multimedia entertainment company under Hunan Broadcasting System. I checked WP:ORG and thought it met the requirements of having great effects on Chinese entertainment industry and owning nationwide audience base. Though it does have a Chinese wikipedia article, it looks like a stub one within only a few words of introduction. So I want to write an article about it in English for people who may be interested in it in the future. I will also pay attention to WP:NOTADVERTISING to write it from a neutral point of view. Hope it could work. --YixuanLong (talk) 08:14, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think there are something wrong with the article Mango TV. When I clicked it, it redirected to a existing article Hunan Television which is a stub one and should be integrated into the article Hunan Broadcasting System since they are the same thing. Although Hunan Broadcasting System does have a nick name called Mango TV which maybe the origin of the English name of the company I want to write about, they are two different companies now and I want to create new content for the article Mango TV and ensure it won't be redirected to any other article. --YixuanLong (talk) 08:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You might also want to check WP:NMEDIA which is a guideline for establishing notability for media organizations. If you're pretty sure this satisfies the criteria though, please go ahead. The issue with the current article for Mango TV is that it is currently a redirect. You'll notice that if you go to Mango TV there is tiny text right near the top of the page that says "Redirect from Mango TV". If you click on that, you will be taken to the redirect page. You can read more about redirects on WP:REDIRECT. Basically, you've got two options. (1) you can expand the article within the Hunan Television article. (2) You can create a new stand-alone article. If you want to do (2), you'll need to click through and edit the redirect article that current includes just the text " " so that it contains the text of your new article. You don't have to do that until you are ready to copy stuff out of your sandbox in a week. I hope that helps! — m a k o ๛  17:32, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I struggled a little bit in finding the topic, then ended up in the one Imaginative activities. I found this topic very interesting when it come to children's learning experience. Ykzhao91 (talk) 05:30, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what an imaginative activity is. Of course, that's not a problem (I probably don't know what most topics covered in Wikipedia are!). More problematically, a quick search online didn't bring up a lot of references. Make sure that you will be able to find enough coverage of the topic in reliable sources to establish notability. I found one academic article from 1956 but it doesn't seem to be very established or well-cited (only 56 citations in Google Scholar). What do you think? Are you confident you can write an excellent, well-referenced article that establishes notability? — m a k o ๛  18:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, Professor, thanks for your feedback. I feel the 'Imaginative activities' is similar to the concept 'Make Believe' or 'Role Play', which children did a lot with their friends. However 'Imaginative Activities' is a more broad concept, which may cover Make Believe. Does that make sense? But I am a little concerned if I could develop it into a stand alone article without overlapping too much with the Make Believe one. Ykzhao91 (talk) 04:22, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So, that's one concern. You should make it's a distinct article. A second concern is that the article title/framing should be a term that people use. Wikipedia is not for original research after all so your job is to define the terms and concepts people are already using, not to try develop them. There's a whole policy on article titles WP:TITLE (of course!) that might be helpful here. If you're not totally confident and comfortable moving forward, it's probably better to choose something else. — m a k o ๛  17:35, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to dig in to the the History of homeschooling, which was a requested Wiki page. As someone who was home-schooled for many years, I'd love to learn more about the origins. And it looks like there are ample sources online. Paige.vogt (talk) 05:51, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This can work although I think your task is going to be a different from what most other students can work. Although there is currently no article on the history of homeschooling there is a quite long section of the homeschooling article Homeschooling that includes quite a lot of information and quote a lot of references.
 * In this case, I think your task would be to split out this material into a new article, rewrite it so that it acts as a stand-alone article, create a summary of that material in the original homeschooling article and then create a link from the section/overview in homeschooling into the new article. I'd also expect you to spend a little time improving the article, doing a little more research, etc. If you're feeling up to it, I think this could be good project. — m a k o ๛  18:24, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * @Benjamin Mako Hill: Thanks for the guidance. When I saw the main homeschooling article, I thought I'd have to switch, but I like the idea of building this out. I'm working on my article today. Paige.vogt (talk) 20:22, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * @Benjamin Mako Hill:Sheepishly circling back here. I think, as you hinted, this might be a bigger project than I want to take on. Found another requested page that looks like it has a lot of citations: Miss Indian World Pageant. Will start outlining this one. Please let me know if you have concerns. Thanks! 21:11, 15 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paige.vogt (talk • contribs)

I would like to improve the article Farewell My Concubine (film), which is my favorite movie. I will make the plot part more concise and add one or two new sections to introduce this film in a more comprehensive way. --Yiyunl347 (talk) 06:13, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Though I didn't get feedback yet, I assume that this article is rich enough then not a good choice. I have an alternative article Chengdu Research Base of Giant Panda Breeding to make contribution. This is a popular tourist attraction in my hometown and I believe it's also a notable organization. Looking forward to the feedbacks! Yiyunl347 (talk) 06:04, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think your reading is basically right. I think Farewell My Concubine (film) is more complete than I'd like. Chengdu Research Base of Giant Panda Breeding is also in pretty OK shape but there's definitely lots of room for improvement and lots of references and such that can be added. Sounds good! Good luck! — m a k o ๛  18:41, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yesterday I delved into this topic a little bit and found a new (and better) choice: iPanda, which is a 24-hour live online channel worldwide. At first, I found there is even not a single article in Chinese about this channel, so I am worried about its notability. Then I checked the WP:ORG and WP:WEB to confirm (not sure which category it is under), I believe that this topic do meet the requirement. Hope it works! Yiyunl347 (talk) 19:28, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You might want to also check WP:NMEDIA which is a notability guideline for media. If you are comfortable trying to do this, I'd urge you to go ahead and see what you can put together! — m a k o ๛  17:24, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I am working on this article now and struggle with reliable sources. For English sources, I only found several short news released in 2013 (the year iPanda was launched) by CNN, BBC, NBC, etc. But in Chinese, there are some academic papers discussing the success and creativity of iPanda. I hope those sources are reliable and sufficient to support my article. Also, I have one question: when I write about the factual content (for example, how many channels it has, who the parent broadcasting system is and how it works, etc. ), can I cite information from its official website? Yiyunl347 (talk) 07:23, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It's up to you to select a topic appropriate and to demonstrate that your topic is written up in a way that satisfies Wikipedia's policies. Figuring out how to do this (e.g., when you have to change topics, etc) in a way that successful navigates the communities policies in the point of Wikipedia. It's totally OK to cite non-English sources. Check out WP:NONENG for a bit of detail on this. Generally speaking, secondary sources are preferred although. For establishing notability you always need sources that are not primary sources. For establishing verifiability of a particular fact, things are more flexible. Read the WP:ABOUTSELF section of the verifiability guideline. Read the policies, try your best, and be bold! You're asking the right questions and I think you're worried about the stuff you should be worried about.  I think you'll be fine. — m a k o  ๛  18:19, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like to write an article about Oamul Lu, who is a young illustrator and animator from China. His works are colorful adorable drawings and animations themed at nature and animals. But no article about him exists on Wikipedia. I believe his work should be promoted to the world.--Cjweik (talk) 06:21, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know about Oamul Lu so I'm sure I'd learn a lot. As I mentioned in class, biographies of living people can be tricky for a lot of reasons so make sure you carefully look through the policies at WP:BLP and WP:BLPNOTE. The latter is the policy about notability for people. If you're comfortable that you'll be able to find enough in the way of reliable sources to establish notability and support the claims that you're making in the article, I'd love to learn about the subject! Good luck and let me know if you want to change topics. — m a k o ๛  18:44, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * After reading the policies, I decide to change my topic into Babao Seal Paste. Babao seal paste is a nation-wide renowned product made in my hometown Zhangzhou, which plays an significant role in Chinese Calligraphy. Look forward to your feedback. Thanks a lot. ---Cjweik (talk) 18:52, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Great. Probably WP:ORG is the most relevant notability policy? Just make sure you can satisfy the notability guidelines. I look forward to learning more! — m a k o ๛  01:34, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I plan to expand the article Qingtuan. It is one of my favorite Chinese dim sum and it reminds me of my hometown - Shanghai. Qingtuan has a long history and we usually eat it during Qingming Festival, which is a traditional festival in China.Misuki11 (talk) 06:37, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * As I've said to several of your classmates, this article looks a little well established. It's only got two references and I'm sure it could be better though. Although my preference is to write a new article (or expand one that is really almost not there at all) I think this could work. I'll just expect you to expand with at least several paragraphs of new text, establish notability, add references, etc. There's also an article in Chinese Wikipedia (zh:青團) which seems much longer than the English one and which might be a source of content and maybe references. If you want to go this route, I think it can work. — m a k o ๛  18:48, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice. I would like to change my topic into Shanghai opera. It is a traditional music drama in China, and it is the only one originating in Shanghai while the others are popular. I believe the english version of Shanghai opera needs to be improved. Hope it works!Misuki11 (talk) 07:04, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like there is lots more room to expand this article. Everything else I said about Qingtuan applies here as well though. Good luck! — m a k o ๛  17:21, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I want to write about Seattle drag queen and writer Mark 'Mom' Finley if I'm able to find enough sources.Germanna84 (talk) 07:22, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Check out WP:BLP and WP:BLPNOTE. If you can find the references to both establish notability and to back up the claims for the statements in the article, I think this sounds. I've not heard of Finley so I'm sure I'd find reading the article interesting and informative! :) Good luck. — m a k o ๛  18:50, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm considering changing my topic to food hubs because I'm struggling to find solid sources on Mark Finley, especially with the WP:BLP guidelines in mind. I did not see any article devoted to food hubs, though they are mentioned in other articles such as Wholesome Wave. For context, the USDA's definition of a food hub is 'a centrally located facility with a business management structure facilitating the aggregation, storage, processing, distribution, and/or marketing of locally/regionally produced food products.' Do you see any potential issues with that as a new article? Thanks! Germanna84 (talk) 15:26, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Food hubs sounds much easier. Check to see if it's covered in some other article (or by other name). Otherwise, and if you think you can establish notability, I think this one sounds pretty safe. — m a k o ๛  17:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've been working the last couple of days to gather all my sources and would like the weekend to finish my summary if that's ok. Germanna84 (talk) 22:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Finish it as soon as you can. — m a k o ๛  02:46, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Notmuch
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Notmuch. zazpot (talk) 18:48, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

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WikiProject Genealogy - newsletter No.1
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