User talk:Benjiboi/Archive 10

Archive 10 | Archive &rarr;

Merge? (Re: Chubby culture)
Chubby culture with Bear (gay slang)? -- ALLSTAR  echo 18:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't recommend it, they are pretty distinct with some overlaps and to me chubby culture should be retitled and expanded accordingly. Is it just for gay & queer men gainers and admirers, etc or is it also include women and should it delve into obesity issues? My hunch is we should either tack on gay or LGBT to title and give it a fresh perspective. Benjiboi 20:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As to women, see Chubby chaser. I'm not sure what to do about this. -- ALLSTAR  echo 21:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * We should definitely incorporate that but I was actually referring to groups like Fat! So? that are lesbian focused. We might want to add a possible motivations section as well. Benjiboi 21:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we're going to need to be along the lines of articles being specific. Examples: Bear (gay slang), Chaser (gay slang), Otter (gay slang), Cub (gay slang), etc. This is why I was against renaming Bear community because all of these animals could have been under that one umbrella of community and now the title Bear (gay slang) just screams "this article is about gay bears and nothing else". On the other hand, in regards to the chaser group, be it straight or gay, I'd say Chubby culture (the gay article) should be merged with Chubby chaser (the breeder article) and then the single article be broken down into 2 sections. -- ALLSTAR  echo 21:24, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, regards to the first item, I personally see otter, cub etc as fine to include as Bears eclipse them a bit and arguably the others are in that universe. I'm not eager to combine the various chubs as I think you'd have two quite different sets of information and pretty quickly folks would want to separate them anyway. Neither seems to be on the chopping block so it's not a rush anyway. Benjiboi 21:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What about renaming Chubby culture to something like Chub (gay slang) ? -- ALLSTAR  echo 21:33, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but I'd want to see more content and references regardless, having said that it doesn't cost much to do a move! Benjiboi 21:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, I'm going back to this. lol -- ALLSTAR  echo 21:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Ha! When in Rome! Benjiboi 22:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, looks like that move brought attention anyway. It's been tagged merge by another user. -- ALLSTAR  echo 22:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

And I just felt like putting this here on your page in case you ever need it... Got so tired of only being able to find the man/woman icon that I made this one! hrmmph! -- ALLSTAR  echo 22:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So cute! Benjiboi 22:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Um - is it just me, or does one of them seem ... longer ... than the other? =D -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:03, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, one is shorter than the other, and one is thicker than the other. Chub/chaser? lol -- ALLSTAR  echo 23:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's just you, lol. Maybe you're leaning to one side? Benjiboi 23:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * lmao! Sit up straight Satyr! And I just fixed it, so the little guy doesn't look like he's got a torso a mile long. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 23:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Outdent. Consider posting to the LGBT project page and Jeffpw's for Miss Julie to potentially use in the newsletter; also is there a version for the ladies? Benjiboi 01:45, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Rescue
Thanks for the heads-up. Happy holidays. :) Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 01:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome, I notified all who have interacted on the template page to avoid canvassing issues; luckily it was a reasonably small population. Benjiboi 02:02, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And I'm a bit off on Christmas carols in general but "O Holy Night" is one of my favorites when in the mood. Benjiboi 02:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing up this discussion again, hopefully it is resolved in a positive manner and we can get back to actually rescuing articles. -- Also, I don't think I have actually said it yet, but thankyou for giving me the barnstar a few months ago :) I hope you are with someone you love this christmas Fosnez (talk) 12:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome. Benjiboi 19:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

BBW thoughts
I understand what you're saying. But I'd like to respectfully request that you think about how your communication in edit summaries may come across. In my opinion, JzG was merely attempting to help.

That aside, I think we really could use more or better references and external links. I notice several at Fat_acceptance_movement which would seem to be as, or more, appropriate to the BBW article. What do you think? - jc37 09:36, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * JzG may have been coming from a helpful stance but they were deleting useful content; I edit summaried "Re-adding, you may want to review what WP:SPAM actually states before deleting content again." Was that off-putting? What would have worked better?
 * And yes feel free to grab all of those links and the see also section, these are good resources in general. Benjiboi 19:14, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

i want to know
why does possion happen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.128.150.37 (talk) 19:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you're looking for but you may want to try passion. Benjiboi 19:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

It's just so awful ...
... that homophobia even exists in such an anonymous room like WIKIPEDIA. :-(( Whenever I see how many users here are frightfully anti-gay, I always have to shake my head. You and I, we have never met here and we have never had any contact but I write you just to tell you that I support all homosexual WP-users 100%. I just came across your statement/announcement on your user page explaining why you wanna take a holiday from WIKIPEDIA. Please do not leave for good. Do not allow those homophobic idiots to defeat you. Everybody has a right to be here - not matter what sexual preferences there are. --Fromgermany (talk) 19:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your kind words. I have been simply taking a break lately whenever the stress level is too high but I've still been getting a lot done. Also, much to my surprise, the homophobia has actually helped in a weird way as so many times an article is targeted and the material in questioned is not only replaced but referenced so that many of the LGBT articles end up having more references than regular articles so to that extent others can still learn about LGBT culture even if a few of us get a few lumps along the way. All a small price to pay compared to those who are killed because they are gay or transgender. We truly have much to be thankful for! Benjiboi 19:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Killed?? ... Yes, it's so shocking to hear about it. Every July I attend the Christopher Street Day parade (as the gay pride parade is still called in Germany) to watch the parade and listen to the speeches afterwards. The first time I went there I was deeply shocked to hear about how "nightmarish" a gay life can still be in some aspects. I was told things I had never ever dreamed of in my small (narrow?) heterosexual world. And how different the whole world is. Over here in Germany (and in a lot of other Western European countries - even including Roman-Catholic Spain - gays and lesbians are legally allowed to get married (or rather, have their relationship registerd in a registry office). And in other parts of this world homosexuals who come out face the death penalty (Saudi Arabia). I guess I'm not telling you any news here, eh? But the gays over here have a famous role model. Maybe you have heard about the mayor of Berlin Klaus Wowereit, who came out in the middle of an election campaign. Four years later he was even re-elected. See, there are signs that gays do not have to live on the edge of society. Be proud! Don't hide! You're as normal and as bizarre as we straight fuckwits. Also on WIKIPEDIA. ;-)) --Fromgermany (talk) 20:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes killed, in America there are hate-crimes against LGBT likely every day and people are brutally killed seemingly every week but the US is a large country. I've heard of Wowereit and know there are many folks also doing tremendous work and i feel wikipedia is part of my contribution. And yes LGBT folks are just as messed up as everyone else, no one seems to have a lock on that! Benjiboi 20:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hate-crimes against LGBT likely every day????? - Thinking about such an awful thing nearly makes me wanna throw up immediately. Ever thought about moving to Europe (well, not Ireland or Poland for obvious reasons) to find at least a little rest and a little peace of mind? My aunt's best friend's daughter married her girlfriend of five years two days before Xmas. Their baby son is due in March. --Fromgermany (talk) 20:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, just because these crimes occur every day doesn't mean they happen to me! And hate-crimes do occur worldwide so it's better just like with racism, sexism and classism that the whole world becomes a more peaceful place to live for everyone. Peace is where and what you make but one must be vigilant always and know that the world is getting better all the time. Benjiboi 20:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Fingerboard AFD
...and what is it that you are asking me to do? --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 23:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Per my note..."please consider revisiting the AfD discussion to see if your comments have been addressed. Benjiboi 23:52, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you're pushing WP:CANVASS, even if you're pinging all who commented on the AfD. &mdash; Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 23:55, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think if you look at WP:CANVASS it spells out how to avoid compromising wikipedia and I believe I have done a good job of sending out a friendly and neutral message simply informing that the article has been re-written (it has) and they might want to revisit the AfD discussion (they might); further, in the spirit of improving articles, I wrote "to see if your comments have been addressed". Please let me know if you think any of that is violating wikipedia rules. Benjiboi 00:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Fingerboard at DYK

 * ...that Fingerboards (pictured), are reduced scale model figures of skateboards, that are featured in videos and used as 3-D visual aids for skateboarders to understand potential tricks and maneuvers? -- Article expanded fivefold on December 24/25, 2007 and self-nom by Benjiboi 01:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Fingerboard (disambiguation)
here is the comparison between my revision and your [current] revision. Mine is adjusted according to WP:MOSDAB - the main article at the top, and the others under it. Then the first link being the term, and no piping links. Check out WP:MOSDAB and tell me if you agree. It's not a big deal, but disambiguation pages are my specialty haha :) -- Dan Leveille TALK 03:20, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd never read that MOS so appreciate you drawing attention to it and I've updated accordingly. Thanks! Benjiboi 09:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Dorothy goes to war
Just wondering, have you read that book, "Coming out under fire"? Because Moni3 actually checked it out of the library to verify if there was anything on the Dorothy quote, and didn't find anything to back up the assertion. Did she overlook something you found? Jeffpw (talk) 10:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * lol! Actually I was using it to bolster "With World War II gay men and lesbian women served throughout the services and traveled worldwide, potentially spreading the phrase through oral history." We're in a tough spot as the verifiability not truth credo really bites us and all minority communities that have flourished with oral history on the wazoo! Stuff i know is true simply isn't always in a published book and the oral history basically needs to be recorded then transcribed before it's real. And blogs don't count. So here's another case where old people are crazy because we can't prove them right. "See grandpa it was the Wizard of Oz, not Miss Parker..." We'll get it it right eventually. Benjiboi 10:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * thank you! I'm a big believer in the Rescue project so i hope it survives and continues and I've also come to appreciate DYK as it provides some minimum structure and goals that, in theory, are achievable and encourage new (and expanded) articles to be well-written. Thank you again! Benjiboi 19:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Knitta
Hey, I changed the image sizes. I didn't realize there was a thing about that in the MOS, but I think I read it correctly that lead images should not be smaller than 300px. It was at 250. 180 was too small. The second image is too large at the default 180, so I put it back to 100. The last one looks good.  Lara  ❤  Love  21:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually you should remove all pixels from images. In essence you're making them smaller for some folks (like me) and too large for others. Each user should set prefernce for image size by following the "My preferences" link on the left side of page and clicking on "files". There you can set a size, this was news to me but it actually makes sense as extra markup is difficult for some operating systems (remember we're worldwide and many are on old or second-hand computers) as well as being a potential hurdle for those dealing with specially-able interpreting software. Benjiboi 21:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Bah! I get it now. Thanks,  Lara  ❤  Love  22:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's not the most intuitive I've had to explain this to a few folks. The article is fun BTW! Benjiboi 22:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's been my favorite to work on. I changed the doorknob cozy back. I can only give so much. It's one thing to have it be so big, but to drop it to the right and have it leave a giant break between section, I just can't do it. It's going up on the main page soon for DYK and it's up for GA.  Lara  ❤  Love  22:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No prob. Good work and good luck! Benjiboi 22:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

build Gay.com
No rush. Benjiboi
 * I'll help. I started you off. ;) -- Dan Leveille TALK 03:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol. thank you, I have to save LPI Media first though. Benjiboi 21:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Cindy Crawford (porn star) afd
rush Benjiboi
 * Saved. Benjiboi 23:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Eric Dezenhall asap
clean-up and npov issues. Benjiboi 03:45, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Consider in other editor's hands Benjiboi 15:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

LPI Media rush notability
asap Benjiboi
 * Done. Benjiboi

Send to DYK. Benjiboi
 * Done Benjiboi 15:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Glory hole
Find refs for above Benjiboi
 * From the mid-to-late 20th century glory holes could be found in many public men's room in the United States including adults-only businesses, bus and train stations, office buildings, and several other public buildings like departments stores and park rest stops. Whereas women's bathrooms would be targeted for "peep" holes for spying, glory holes were much larger and therefore more obvious. When an institution (school, governmental or business) would replace bathroom stalls they often would upgrade to stainless steel to discourage creating holes as well as other forms of vandalism.
 * [Glory holes were] once extremely common in public men's toilets
 * I'm not so sure this article should have the LGBTProject tag since the very first sentence says, A glory hole is a hole in a wall, or other partition, often between public lavatory stalls or video booths for men or women to engage in sexual activity or observe the person in the next cubicle... ?? -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo


 * You're kidding right? IMHO opinion, the only reason it says "or women" is homophobia. I've personally never even heard of women having or using glory holes but I've been wrong many times before. Glory holes, as far as I know, are a uniquely gay male artifice and were quite popular in adult bookstores and, as above, "bus and train stations, office buildings, and several other public buildings like departments stores and park rest stops". Many porn movies and erotic stories cover this aspect and entire movies are devoted to this activity.  (See this for example.) Benjiboi


 * I agree with Benji on this. My understanding is that women on the other side of a glory hole is a heterosexual male fantasy, and just a fantasy. The article needs clarification on this, if refs can be found. I do remember reading that somewhere.  — Becksguy (talk)


 * Of course, this could also be where a strait guy was told, so very much wanted to believe or otherwise thought it was a woman on the other side. As I think of it there was a scene in a Porky's movie using a glory hole in a shower and it was an older, less attractive woman. And then we get into the whole transgender arena where it was a guy and a girl depending on who's telling the story. Benjiboi
 * You and I know better but as long as the other sex is in the lede, the very first sentence even, it calls the tag into question. Just my thoughts on it. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 08:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed "women" from the lead in the article as unreferenced. I checked out the provided citations, and none say women use glory holes, and one actually says they don't. You do have a point, Allstar. — Becksguy (talk) 09:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Becksguy, I can find you several sources which show women using gloryholes. It is a relevant recent phenomena, but it does occur. That doesn't mean that the LGBT tag shouldn't be on the article, though, to answer AllStar's question. It obviously falls under the scope of our project, even if some straight women also avail themselves of this wonderful invention. Jeffpw (talk) 09:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe they do, but my understanding is that it's still overwhelmingly a male thing, especially in the public and semi-public venue such as men's rooms and porn booths. If you want to add it back, fine, but not as if they use it on par with men, as I think that's not justified. I removed it as unreferenced in the given inline citations. All the ghits seemed to be porn links. However, I would be interested in reading the citations, Jeff, if for no other reason than my own education. Unless they are porn videos. Thanks and Happy New Year.  — Becksguy (talk) 10:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I will be forced to concede the point. After spending a considerable amount of time (the things I do for Wikipedia!) researching gloryholes and women, the only links I could find were to porn sites with pics and videos on the subject. On an anecdotal level, I know that some women occasionally go there, but per WP:OR (and I shan't be detailing my knowledge of this subject!) and WP:UNDUE we can probably safely leave women out of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffpw (talk • contribs) 14:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If we can find a source for the Porky's film should be enough. Don't give up, it's a big world and women can do most everything men can! Benjiboi 14:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

in re: Bisexual erasure
While assuming nothing but good faith on the part of the editor who merged the articles, due to the history of as well as lively and vigorous discussion about this article, I have restored the article and substituted instead two merger discussion boxes, one on Bisexual erasure and one on Biphobia.

I look forward to discussing and working on this and other subjects with you in the future. Respectfully CyntWorkStuff (talk) 02:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * you beat me to it! had you not restored it I would have. There's no reason both articles can't peacefully co-exist. Let me know if anything needs immediate attention and I'll be happy to lend a hand. Benjiboi 13:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

 * thank you! I worked so hard on it I'm glad it was listed! Benjiboi 14:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thumb sizes
Per MOS at MOS: Specifying the size of a thumbnail image is not necessary: without specifying a size, the width will be what readers have specified in their user preferences, with a default of 180px (which applies for the overwhelming majority of readers), and a maximum of 300px. However, the image subject or image properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article . That's why I did that. The images as they are throw the layout off into being all over the place. So, just FYI. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 21:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * well I figured the article is going to be changed a bit more but with the galleries and pixels all those images are like the size of a penny. As each section grows removing the pixels should be less of an issue. p.s. I applaud your restraint from invoking "size queen" in this discussion! Benjiboi 00:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * lmao not invoking it shouldn't be confused with not thinking it. ;) -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 05:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha! Benjiboi 20:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

DYK (Re:Judy Garland as gay icon)

 * woo hoo, thank you! Benjiboi 01:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Re your comments on my talk page yesterday - you're welcome. As it happens I've always wondered what made certain performers gay icons, and now I have a much better idea. It was a fun read :) Gatoclass (talk) 06:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it's just a stsrt, it's hard to find great RS that show that gays love Judy because she was brilliantly tragic, resilient, was a glittery star despite her tortured childhood, was a druggy with a flaming demise and danced with the hottest guys in town. But we might find them yet. Meanwhile the article is off to a good start. Benjiboi 20:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

just encouragement
Benjiboi, yesterday I happened to notice your "lead" edit flicker in and out of the LGBT page and then looked at your user page, with its rather unfortunate "Break!" notice. I am, however, quite familiar with the effects that homophobia can have on a person. . . so I just wanted to send a brief note of encouragement. You need to figure out your own way to develop both a tough skin and a tender skin -- and to do it in your own time. I just wanted to send a message reminding you what you already must know: that there are people who understand. William P. Coleman (talk) 15:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I very much appreciate your message and would like to keep it as a reminder that there are others who do care. Part of the reason i have that message (still) on my page is that the second round of distress is, as of yet, unresolved and I seem to still find homophobia an ongoing issue. Many admins (and other experienced editors) seem to readily dismiss it as juvenile behavior but sadly mnay teens commit suicide and many LGBT of all ages are still routinely brutalized and murdered for nothing more than choosing to love someone other than the manistream norm. I work for a day when that is no longer the case; that neither such activities occur and homophobic vandalism is no longer tolerated. Benjiboi 20:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Having been where I have in the past, and particularly the past year on wiki, I can certainly appreciate where you're at. I've experienced some bizarre anti-TG behaviour here, and I'm still not entirely over the abuse from the (now indef blocked) user who almost chased me off wiki last year. I often struggle not to bite newbies over what I consider vandalism edits. I would like to see discriminatory vandalism of all varieties treated much more harshly than is the case right now. I consider WP:BLP as being an example of how strict wiki can be if it wants to be. If it helps, you're one of the very few editors whose main space edits I don't feel the need to review for possible reversion. :) --AliceJMarkham (talk) 00:16, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol! I feel much the same for your edits although my spelling is so bad you may want to double-check anyway! Thank you so much for your kind words and feel free to shout out if you need support. I have low tolerance for b.s.! Benjiboi 04:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

DYK (Re:LPI Media)

 * Woo hoo! Thank you! Benjiboi 20:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Tillie K. Fowler
I notice that you recently tagged the Tillie K. Fowler article for lack of in-line citations. Part of the reason for the lack of in-line citations is the apparent disappearance of User:DaveWGilliland, who was a major contributor to the article prior to his last edit in January, 2007. I have recently discussed this situation with another major contributor to the article, User:Jeffpw. --TommyBoy (talk) 02:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries, I've been doing a lot of bios lately and tagged it so any potential editors would see that it does have references their just listed as sources and not inline citations. It certainly looks OK to me just needs general clean-up and adding in-line citations. If the tag is problematic feel free to move it to the talk page. Benjiboi 16:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of DJ Pusspuss
An editor has nominated DJ Pusspuss, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 07:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Me thinks you got stalked in regards to this article... -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 16:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * By who, and oh well, it was on my list to be cleaned-up anyway! Everytime someone's targeted one of my articles I always double up adding refs to it anyway! Benjiboi 17:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * By its AfD nominator, the same person that started this: Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 17:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, thank you for pointing it out, they are bordering on harassment of me I'm afraid. Maybe it's a huge coincidence but confrontational editing doesn't seem to jive with consensus building. Benjiboi 20:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Britney
OMG...just...OMG! Jeffpw (talk) 13:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * High as a kite! And in pic 10, I noticed they got leg restraints on her! lmao She was in another world! -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 15:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, she did need to be restrained after she got aggressive with the paramedics. 72 hour psych hold at Cedars-Sinai. All too horrible for words. That anyone could laugh at this tragedy is beyond me. How you reacted to 9/11 is anybody's guess, AllStar :-S Jeffpw (talk) 15:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's just wait on Chris Crocker's memo on how tragic her flip-out really is. I'm not so sure it's anything different than any other flip-out. As for 9/11, in the words of Afroman, that illustrious rapper from Mississippi, "then I got high"... -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 16:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I shouldn't repeat this, but I read somebody quoted as saying of that day, "Christ! I heard 'It's raining Men" on the radio, but I didn't realize it was the actual weather report!" Jeffpw (talk) 16:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * ~speechless~ -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 16:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea, I'm reserving judgment on a lot of it. Didn't we learn from Michael Jackson and so many other young young children that it's a bit unhealthy to make them into stars before they hit puberty? I mean are we really surprised when they act outside the societal box when they never seemed to have a normal life to begin with? And I also won't take TMZ's word on anything but the barest of details, It was her, she was in an ambulance, she was upset. I can only imagine what pretense the paramedics were called in on and how they behaved. And why would Britney be upset if absolutely every shred of her most personal and embarrassing moments were photographed and resold internationally? Hopefully she'll be fine and turn it all around. In this case I have to agree with Crocker that we don't really want to kill off another Anna Nicole. Benjiboi 17:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree with you more, Benjiboi. I am one of Britney's biggest fans. I don't know about you, but I said a hallelujah when I saw that she was covered up in the video and her nether regions were not exposed. That said, they are now saying it is a psychotic breakdown. And that's not from TMZ, that's straight from People.com. Sigh. Poor Britney. Those poor kids. And yes, the article here is updated with all the sourced facts. Glad somebody wasn't too shocked to chronicle this latest scandal. Jeffpw (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well in a cynical mode one could be excused for car-wreck voyeurism. Unless she's a brilliant media whore my hunch is she is going through a very rough patch of growing older without growing mature. Most do this in private without their every misstep chronicled. I can't say I'm a fan of hers although I do like a lot of her latest album and some of the remixes of her old stuff hold up well. Like Madonna I think she's a video star and performance trouper. Those talents haven't translated into all areas of her work and maybe, just maybe, she's completely fried being yet another blond pop star constantly compared to others who are each more talented in one respect or another. And evn Paris seems more stable and grounded and isn't that saying a lot! Benjiboi 20:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Matt Sanchez's Acceptable Homophobia
Why are the following remarks by Matt NOT outrageous and bigotted enough to have him banned? Or is it only worth the effort if he makes personal attacks against individuals?

"Faggot is very important as it's a symbol of how desperate the proponents of the gay agenda have become and how homosexuals typically use identity politics as a justification for pretty much anything. No part of smearing me made sense except in the venereal diseased mind of radicals on a self-righteous jihad." Matt Sanchez (talk) 09:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC "...although gay culture, entertainment and pass-time is by definition pornographic." Matt Sanchez (talk) 10:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it acceptable to continually attack both friendly and non-friendly, gay and atraight editors who attempt to tell Matt's story accurately as 'smearing him' due to 'venereal-diseased mind of radicals on a self-righteous jihad' as long as he doesn't ridicule individual's user names with childish homophobia-based modifications? Would it be OK to to speak of black culture as "by definition low class" for example as long as no editor is directly called "ni__er"?

Originally considered becoming an editor on Wikipedia months ago, but decided not to "wrestle with pigs" as the old saying goes....you seem to stress out about the nasty atmosphere on Wikipedia as well, why continue, without demanding civility from those like Matt? Didn't you participate in his useless RfC ? (Seriously interested in your thoughts, please answer here OK, since I'm not a 'real' editor.)


 * I don't edit for the homophobes I do it for the kids who are different and those who can be their allies to keep them alive long enough for them to escape from life-threatening situations. Sadly it's all too serious, kids are attacked every day and if I can help make a difference then I feel it's worth it. To me the Sanchez article is textbook internalized homophobia. And if American culture was at the point where being gay and bisexual and transgender and intersex is just another aspect of who you are and not some culturally politicized issue to be voted on by the majority. The day when it doesn't matter who you love but that you love comes is when things are headed in the right direction. Benjiboi 15:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response. 'You're a better man than I Benjiboi.' I couldn't agree with your sentiments and cause more, but don't have the stomach for it....I might do serious harm to myself or others if I was a front line warrior....intolerance makes me completely intolerant...hatred makes me hateful. Perhaps I need a new hobby than lurking here at Wikipedia. My apologies for 'getting in your face' -- noticed you had just changed your stance on his RfC, and, as stated, you're doing more for the cause here on Wikipedia than I....Best of Luck.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.174.251 (talk) 16:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You said he has an open RfC? Got a link? -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 15:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Try Requests for comment/Bluemarine. Benjiboi 15:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

See Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 16:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

FYI: He's been blocked indefinitely per Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 17:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

FFYI: "Once a Marine, always a Marine - unless you are gay." <--that userbox.. I made the change to the userbox myself and it wasn't related to Matt. The "unless you are gay" part I put in the userbox and linked it to don't ask, don't tell. I figured since the template was in WP main space and not in userspace, it was freely open to editing. However, having since noticed it's only being used by one user now, I have sent it to TfD. -- <strong style="color:#fff;background:#DC143C;border:1px solid #000">ALLSTAR <strong style="color:#FFF;background:#0F4D92;border:1px solid #000"> echo 01:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)