User talk:Benjiboi/Archive 8

DYK
I'm afraid I'm not in the position to update DYK at the moment. It takes quite some time to do it properly (especially in cases where the next time template isn't populated). I simply don't have enough free time in a continuous period to handle this at the moment. I hope you can find someone else to tend to the template. - Mgm|(talk) 19:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. I probably messaged you because you were listed on the page of those able, etc. but I messaged several folks at the same time in hopes that someone could. Last I looked the template had been updated but since the cycle is every six hours it does seem to regularly get backlogged so anytime you're able to deal with it your efforts are appreciated. Benjiboi 19:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

COI/N Thread
Your favorite IP ranges posted a COI/N thread on an article you worked on, R Family Vacations. I've closed the thread after he supplied contradictory evidence, and encourage you to add to this ISI page. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 03:08, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OMG! Thank you for telling me I had no idea there was this brewing pot of drama going on! Benjiboi 04:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahh it returns! I hadn't seen it either. So you buying boats and ferrying all the fairies around now?? lol ;) --  ALLSTAR  echo  04:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You know it's I saw a couple of R Family Vacations edits go by and thought ok, improvements, move on, and then this whole thing was going on and viola! sorted out. As a parent it's always exciting when massive problems are completely taken care of and all you have to do is nod and smile while being told all the gory details! Benjiboi 04:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Transgender edit
Using "gay-bashing" can be seen as transphobic for mischaracterizing a transgender person's identity although most agree that any attacks is unacceptable regardless of the label used to describe it.

Find source and quote for above (criticism section) Benjiboi
 * eh? --   ALLSTAR  echo  06:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you so much for the Barnstar. It was completely unexpected, especially as I know you would do the same for me. I feel really lucky to be able to participate in the LGBT project, and to have made such good Wiki friends as you.

By the way, I'm going to research the chicken article today to see if we can save it from deletion. Jeffpw (talk) 12:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome and it's well deserved. And it was fun in its own way sorting out finding an appropriate one to use and such. Keep up the good work on behalf of all those helping add valuable contributions to the LGBT communities! Benjiboi 20:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Chicken
There is a difference between 'twink' and 'chicken'

Chicken is a young, naive boy, newly gay, "bi curious" at best. Easy prey for "chicken hawks" older dudes who looked for fresh meat. Not always of age. Sometimes turns "pro" to survive.

Twink tends to be a bit more sexually self aware, not naive. Perhaps self absorbed and superfical, but that definition tends to be fading in favor of "just barely legal." It used to be a perjorative, but seems to have evolved into something less biting. Jacksinterweb (talk) 04:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for offering some guidance on this! Hopefully the sources will help "fluff" this out as well but I'm convinced we'll get this article worked up regardless. Benjiboi 20:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll be working on this too in the weekend, Benjiboi. The term still resonates with me--I remember men going "cluck-cluck-cluck" at me when I was a gay teen! Jeffpw 20:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ha! Finger-licking good indeed! Benjiboi 20:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * MMmmm, do I smell chicken??! Sorry, I was away busy being banned for the last 24 hours and couldn't particpate in this discussion of my fav-o-rite commodity! However, as I am back and fairly young and gay (fairly young, strongly gay), I'd also like to point out that "twink", at least from what I have experienced of the term, means of legal age but of illegal age looks. In other words, 18 but looks 12. 24 but looks 16. I've never ever heard it used in a conversation as having to do with sexual self awareness. "Oh look at that twink!". --  ALLSTAR  echo  06:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting, I wonder if this is a regional difference. My experience has been more like Allstarecho's.  - Philippe &#124; Talk 06:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I imagine it's a combination and used to largely passed on as part of queer (ahem) oral history but just as other words had currency with several possibly interpretations dominant ones emerge eclipsing others and mainstream usage perpetrated some usages more than others. As with all wikithings, however, it's verifiability not truth so we'll have to see what WP:RS's emerge to fluff our collective understanding. Benjiboi 09:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Oral... Fluff...  Worked up... Smell[s] [like] chicken (or was that teen spirit)... OMG, what's next. I don't think I wanna know. — Becksguy 09:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I'm sure I have no idea what you're referring to but dipping sauce comes with chicken so maybe a warm washcloth with which to wipe-up. Benjiboi 09:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I left a message for you in the chicken coop, Benjiboi (cluck). I've also added refs to the article. Jeffpw 12:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This would be a twink, and my fav-o-rite I might add. I got some dipping sauce and a wet nap for him. --  ALLSTAR  echo  15:21, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Yikes! My dear young (and fairly young) chickens, I was speaking in generalities when the AfD debate was skewing towards merging with "twink" and definitely not issueing an edict. I was feebly trying to draw a distinction between the two terms (and apparently ruffled some feathers). Back in the day, chickens not only looked like boys, but were boys, but it also applied to any barely legal types. Thirty years ago, information about gay sexuality wasn't readily available for teens who were questioning, age of consent laws were more restrictive for gays, making for a lot of naive young queers in their teens, easy prey for the "hawks." Chicken had a negative connotation (the gay equivalent of "jail bait"), made even more so by those chcickens that turned pro. "Twink" never had that kind of baggage, even when it was sometimes used as a dismissive term. An 18 year old today is more worldly and not as clueless about sex as teens were 30 or 40 years ago. Jacksinterweb 16:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't take any stress over concerns or coop feathers ruffled or otherwise stuffed into pillows, I think it's all friendly fire and as I'm still trying to reconcile the terminology in the references your insight is actually quite helpful to place the usage into context. We didn't have cell phone cameras and youtube until recently nor was gay porn so mainstream and the modern LGBT movement was kicked of in 1969 so it's been a journey from clandestine to Queer Eye for the Strait Guy. I think we're all on the same side of writing a verifiable if not accurate article and anything is undoubtably better than the stub that apparent ruffled someone enough to AfD it. Maybe it was Larry Craig toe-tapping his way onto wiki? who knows. Benjiboi 21:44, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well said BB! No harm was meant, just spirited discussion about finger lickin' chicken. ;) --  ALLSTAR  echo  22:24, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

tidings of comfort and joy
you busy wiki elf, you! you get several mentions in this month's newsletter. Jeffpw 23:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well that sounds ominous! Let me know (with plenty of time mind you) if you ever are looking for newsletter fluff and fodder or just another set of eyes. I think the style and wit encourage folks to actually read it and I suggest two possible additions; one being an ask your cruise director where you respond to viewer mail asking for advice (perhaps a question of the month?) that flexes your bot-mot-inator as well as providing some insightful and helpful resource (on wiki or not); the second being something along the lines of The voices in my head are telling me to redecorate that gives similar advice but could be a Home Depot list of a few ideas for freshening up an article. "Here are a few ideas to inspire an article makeover" with a link at the end for a wikisite how to write a good article. Benjiboi 00:00, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Great ideas, Benjiboi! I don't know if there's time for this newsletter, but that will make a great new change in the January issue! Take a peek if you want. Jeffpw 00:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! Benjiboi 00:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What in the heck is a "bot-mot-inator"!?!? :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * An unhilarious typo! I'm such a bad speller it's amazing. Try bon-motinator. Benjiboi 01:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, as a bot owner, I thought it was funny :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The system works! Benjiboi 01:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI
Please see Requests for adminship/SatyrTN and discuss accordingly. Thanks! --  ALLSTAR  echo  03:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
For the sweet message. My adoptee has turned out to be Rosemary's Baby, and I needed a kind message from a friend right when you popped in. You're a peach. Jeffpw 13:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I had a hunch something was going on. I suggest using a tough love approach either way as civility and blocking issues are rather non-negotiable on wikipedia whereas they're expected elsewhere. I try to be gracious in hope that anyone can be a good editor but often they need pokes with a hint stick to get them to play nice and such. And sometimes you get folks who simply need time to sort out each lesson. Youth - wasted on the chickens! Benjiboi 03:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter
Delivered on 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC). SatyrBot 20:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I changed the article about male prostitution areas to 300 Westheimer at Mason
I changed the male prostitution area to 300 Westheimer and Mason because it is more accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauradiane (talk • contribs) 21:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, I appreciate that you may believe that however changing "Hyde Park in Montrose" to "near 300 Westheimer at Mason" is actually more confusing to everyone else. I'll also clarify that we aren't trying educate people where exactly to go to find a male prostitute simply writing an article about the subject so getting into a specific street address doesn't seem needed. If you want to re0add the specific address, which seems peculiar at best, please provide a reliable reference that backs up that that address is known for male prostitution. Benjiboi 00:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Twink citation needed
Benjiboi, why did you remove the tag I placed on the sentence In some societies the term "chick" or "chicken" is preferred.  Please read my comment on the talk page, which I think is still valid. I was going to remove the sentence, but the AfD for the Chicken (gay slang) article came up and I thought it was better to wait until that was settled. I think we mostly agreed that twink != chicken in the AfD, right? — Becksguy (talk) 01:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll look at it in a sec., chick and chicken are preferred in some societies but the wording seems awkward. Benjiboi 10:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've added the ref chick and chicken have so many meanings and they are not exclusive but more generalized and change. The twink article is pretty wonky and needs work but I'm still digging through chicken. Benjiboi 10:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I was mostly concerned that it got inadvertently deleted as part of cleanup. Your citations so far have been fascinating (and educational), so I'm interested in seeing what else you come up with on both Twink & Chicken (as gay slang). Regards, — Becksguy (talk) 15:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the chicken has proved to be a bit elusive as there are quite a few things to dig through but I'll help on twink when needed. Benjiboi 01:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for watching my back today, and for being a mensch in general. Wikipedia is blessed to have editors like you. Jeffpw (talk) 14:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Right back atchya! Benjiboi 15:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

R Family Vacations
copy edit, compare to similar articles (if they exist) and consider a DYK. Benjiboi
 * Done Benjiboi 22:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Image:Sister Roma at Folsom 1996.jpg
Hi, you've blanked out the licensing & everything else with "I want to delete this" or words to that effect. Is the picture a copyright violation ? --Simon Speed (talk) 02:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I uploaded a better copy of the same image and couldn't figure out how to delete the thing. Benjiboi 11:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've restored the licensing & description and put it in the SPI category. It seems a good image and other projects may hagve a use for it. --Simon Speed (talk) 22:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a bad version of a borderline image and I would delete it myself if I could. Benjiboi 23:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't - it's on the Commons. Unless you were a Commons admin, you couldn't delete it. -Jéské ( Blah  v^_^v ) 23:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a note to try to delete - I have little experience in commons. Benjiboi 23:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's better than my "What's the image upload button?" ;) -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 23:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol! I've found there's a button to request deletion. Benjiboi 23:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:AN/I post regarding TeePee-20.7
Hopefully they'll calm down - I've asked them to stop using derogatory terms (they state elsewhere that their brother is gay and has no objection to the term "maricon" but that's not the point, of course). One small point regarding your AN/I post though - TeePee was blocked, not banned the two terms are distinct (see WP:BAN, WP:BU and my attempt to distil it at User talk:Just2saythis). I'm keeping an eye on TeePee's edits for a while. Cheers, Tonywalton Talk 11:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for looking into that I didn't want to personal engage so I appreciate your time on it. Will try to remember to avoid saying banned when I mean block - certainly not interchangable on wp. Benjiboi 11:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Welcome. Tonywalton Talk 11:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Just so you know, Benjiboi, I do not see this as resolved quite yet. I have posted to that effect on ANI, though I will not revert Tony's use of the "Resolved" checkmark. Jeffpw (talk) 13:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I will keep my eyes on it, the posts on Tonywalton's talk seemed to be going in a decent direction but I wasn't up for inserting myself into it directly so refrained from interjecting. I'm happy to comment when needed though so let me know if you think my involvement would help. Benjiboi 13:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If you look at Tony's page now, you'll see he thinks it would have been OK if he had called us queers instead of maricons. He is still not getting it. I also think his restoration of the posts that got him blocked is ...provocative, to say the least. Jeffpw (talk) 13:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw the queers comment but didn't want to engage to point out it's one thing when a minority group reclaims a slur and quite another when someone else does. I didn't root enough to see his reposting but that does seem a bit much. Benjiboi 14:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Point made to him as a general case under User talk:TeePee-20.7 and later here. Personally I've never been over-happy with any group claiming to "reclaim" a slur, primarily because it gives the kind of people who used it as a slur in the first place far too much excuse to say they have carte blanche to re-use it. However I realise that that's a very contentious statement and I'm not proposing to re-start a debate here that ranges far beyond WP ;-) I also invite you to take a look at my response at User talk:Jeffpw. Regards Tonywalton Talk 17:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've posted once again at ANI about this, since he readded the slur again after Tony reverted. This is getting really annoying. Feel free to delete this entire thread, Benjiboi, if you don't want to get involved any further than you are. Jeffpw (talk) 14:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've updated a comment myself. It would be nice to get another admin voice to step in and give the user a civility pep talk. Benjiboi 20:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Gummy (disambiguation)
A tag has been placed on Gummy (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Yavoh 05:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Issue should be resolved but I will message for confirmation. Benjiboi 07:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)