User talk:Bensci54

Copyright in NPP
Hey, I was doing some cleanup of serial copyright violations and noticed that one of the articles they created Submission arts wrestling, was reviewed by you despite mostly consisting of copyright violating text from a cited website. Please be sure to use the copyright violations tool to check for copyright violations before approving new articles. signed,Rosguill talk 01:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Rosguill Are you referring to the tool that shows up as a link in the Page Curation dialog? I usually do check that if if shows up. If I missed it this time, apologize for the oversight and thanks for the trout. Bensci54 (talk) 15:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023
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Jowle
Hi Bensci 54, May I ask you a question? In October '22 you suggested my article "Mozart Group" to be speedily deleted. Fortunately the article could be saved and it has since attracted numerous contributors. But now I run into the article Jowle, a village in Somalia. Problem is: this village does not exist. Satellite imagery does not show a single hut; it is not on a "UN Master Settlement List" with almost 10.000 Somali villages, etc. I contributed a lot on Somalia and believe me, I checked it thoroughly. But my question is: which deletion tag should I use? Loranchet (talk) 13:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * There isn't a speedy deletion criteria for this sort of article. Therefore, if you think this article should be deleted, and that no one would disagree with that, you should use a PROD tag. Anyone who disagrees can show that they disagree by removing the tag. If no one removes the tag for a week, the article will be deleted. If you think that there is likely to be disagreement, or if you have attempted a PROD and someone contested it, you should take the article to AFD. Let me know if you have any further questions. Bensci54 (talk) 14:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Crystal Valentine
Hi. Just letting you know I draftified this article which you had marked reviewed, as it had clear indications of UPE/COI editing. Onel 5969  TT me 19:53, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Television Oita
Hi Bensci 54. Thank you for your comment and vote in Articles for deletion/Mie Television and Articles for deletion/Wakayama Telecasting Corporation. But for Articles for deletion/Television Oita, I have some different opinions. Television Oita is one of three commercial terrestrial TV stations in Oita Prefecture, and also the member of JBA as well as Mie Television and Wakayama Telecasting Corporation. So I think the importance of Television Oita should be the same as the other two. Thank you.--Suicasmo (talk) 03:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Appeal for Deletion of Caawiye App Wikipedia Page
Dear Bensci 54,

I recently created an article on Wikipedia, but it appears that it may be at risk of deletion. I would greatly appreciate any feedback or suggestions you may have for improving the article and making it more positive and encyclopedic.

The article is about the Caawiye App, a community-based question-and-answer website and mobile application that has gained popularity among users in Somalia. I have included information on its features, history, and reception, as well as external sources to support the content.

I am open to any constructive criticism and would appreciate any help in improving the article. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Best regards, Shahwah23 Shahwah23 (talk) 10:05, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Page mover granted
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New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive
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Ajaman heritage district.
Received a message to delete the article I started recently.But I could not find the reason and notice on the article. Can you share the link to fix the problem Akbarali (talk) 19:44, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The article has already been deleted, because it was unambiguously promotional. Bensci54 (talk) 15:07, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Orphan designation
Hi Bensci54,

Thanks for your notes on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(Lan_Samantha_Chang_short_story_collection)

I see that you designated it as an orphan page without related links, but it does have related links. May I ask why?

Thanks! LityNerdyNerd (talk) 17:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * An orphan is where there are no other articles which link to the article in question, not the other way around. Bensci54 (talk) Bensci54 (talk) 20:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was confused for a moment if the definition had changed. I just linked it. LityNerdyNerd (talk) 18:09, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023
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Gibraltar Financial Services Commission
Hiya. I'm not sure if you meant to mark this one as reviewed, but as it is wholly unsourced, I've tagged it unreviewed and moved it to Draft. Hope that's fine by you! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:20, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Deprodding of Azad Adhikar Sena
I have removed the tag from Azad Adhikar Sena, which you proposed for deletion. I found multiple news articles; I have posted links at Talk:Azad Adhikar Sena.. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add back to the page. Instead, feel free to list it at Articles for deletion. Thanks!

-- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 00:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Dear Sir,

You said as regards the article on Azad Adhikar Sena as follows- "This page seems largely promotional, and of dubious notability, seeing as it isn't actually yet a registered party. (proposed by Bensci54)"

Meanwhile this objection seems to have been disagreed by 02 persons and the same message is not presently visible but I find it appropriate to present the facts that prima-facie establish that the page deserves to be there on Wikipedia, despite the party not having been registered with the Election Commission of India as yet. The reasons are as follows-

1. As per Indian laws, Registration of a political party is not mandatory for a party to work and exist. 2. Hence non-registration of a political party does not make it irrelevant and it can still exist and work. 3. Azad Adhikar Sena has already applied for registration which is in the process. 4. Even otherwise, the party is now working for around 01 year with full swing. 5. The number of activities quoted in the article make it clear that the party is not non-functional or non-existent but is very much there on ground. 6. The truth is that though the party is trans-national in its flavour and thinking but presently it is more visible and impactful in the state of Uttar Pradesh, where it is certainly making its impact felt. 7. The news articles attached along with the Wiki page also show that the party is spread in different parts of Uttar Pradesh. 8. This is the reason why majority of news articles are in Hindi language because Hindi is the predominant language of this State and not English. 8. There are many more news articles related with the Party that have not been attached. 9. The party is definitely working hard to work against injustice, atrocity and corruption and for the rights of common people, with all its earnest. 10. Hence the facts stated are not promotional in nature but only state the truth. 11. Again, almost every word is based on one or more reliable sources, as can be seen from the references.

In view of these facts, deleting this article would be prima-facie an injustice and impropriety in itself and the wiki page us needed in larger public interest.

~ Thanks and Regards Genuinewikiuser

New page patrol October 2023 Backlog drive
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

November Articles for creation backlog drive
 Hello Bensci54:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!

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There is a backlog of over pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

European Seniors' Union
Thank you for reviewing my article. I have a long experience with publishing articles on the Dutch Wikipedia, but this is my first article in English. Apparently not all rules are the same in both Wikipedias. Therefore, I have now removed all direct external references in this article. I hope that it now meets the standard in that respect and that you can remove the comment about external references. Thank you in advance. Luxil (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Indoor American football
Hi, thank you for acting as closer for this discussion. I'll note that both commenters expressed support for "Arena football" as the article title, the OP also endorsed it, and thus this should be seen as a consensus for the alternate move. 162 etc. (talk) 18:52, 27 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, re-reading it, I now agree. I will move it. Bensci54 (talk) 20:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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Move
Please move this article to Dany not Danny is his real names. Exactly Danny is common name but his birth name is Dany. Pfomma (talk) 03:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

In Search of...
From other pages, it looks like you understand how to format an RM closure now per WP:RMCI, but your closure of Talk:In Search of... is not formatted properly. Could you please redo that? (If you don't, I may reformat it myself.) Thanks for helping, by the way. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:30, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @BarrelProof WP:RMCI doesn't require the full colored box formatting. It only lists it as an option. The only requirements are that the requested move/dated tag be removed and a comment explaining the closing added.
 * The full green box seems a little silly to me for an RM with no actual discussion... but it's no big deal to me either way. I'll put the box around it here later tonight. Bensci54 (talk) 23:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Perhaps a close readying says that, but I've always seen it with the shading and warning not to further edit. Otherwise, to me it looks a little "unfinished", and might invite further discussion. At first glance, the instructions say "While historically, there have been other options for formally closing the move request survey on the affected article's talk page, nowadays we exclusively use the twin templates". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @BarrelProof Well, yes, but that's still in the section for formal closings. Above that, it says that closings can be either informal or formal. What I was intending to do was an informal close here. I feel like WP:RMCI could probably use some detail on when an informal close is appropriate, and if it is never appropriate, then the info on informal closings should be removed. But this isn't the place for that discussion. Maybe I will start a discussion on the talk page for WP:RMCI later. For now (or at least, by later tonight), I will formalize the one in question. Bensci54 (talk) 23:59, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you've put a lot more thought into this than I had anticipated. I had assumed you were just someone who didn't clearly understand the convention. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:45, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive
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Ferdinand VI move
Hi, Bensci54. Could you please explain to me (since you did not in your closure) how it is that you found no consensus to move at Talk:Ferdinand VI of Spain? Surtsicna (talk) 17:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)


 * My original decision was based on that there were people on both the Support and Oppose sides that appeared to have policy backing them up, and there had been no discussion since Jan 3. However, looking at it again, taking into account what WP:NCROY actually says, I think it could be considered that there is consensus to move. WP:RMCI does say that policy has greater weight than !votes in a RM. I will update it to Moved. Thanks! Bensci54 (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the detailed explanation! Cheers, Surtsicna (talk) 18:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I understand that Wikipedia isn't a democracy. But, a majority of editors did oppose the 'page move'. That being said, I realize this 'purge' (via NCROY) of the suffix "of country", will continue forward until it's removed from as many monarch bios titles as possible. PS - One wonders. What's the point of opening up such RMs, if their outcome is basically (via NCROY) pre-determined. GoodDay (talk) 21:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, indeed. I am just trying my best to follow procedures here. WP:RMCI indeed indicates:
 * "Any move request that is out of keeping with naming conventions or is otherwise in conflict with applicable guideline and policy, unless there is a very good reason to ignore rules, should be closed without moving regardless of how many of the participants support it."
 * So accordingly, I changed my closing to Move once I reviewed the convention at WP:NCROY. It does seem a bit like make-work that the RMs have to be created anyways, but per the instructions in WP:PCM, one of the criteria that prevents a bold move is "someone could reasonably disagree with the move," and clearly this is the case, given the large number of editors who always end up Opposing each of these moves. Bensci54 (talk) 21:46, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Many years ago. I opposed the addition of diacritics to English Wikipedia (page titles, page content, templates, etc), but they're here & aren't going anywhere. So, that's basically (going forward) how I'll be viewing these 'monarch bio page name' RMs. It's too bad though, considering all the inconsistencies created, across many of these monarch bio page titles :( GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I would aver that the recent change to NCROY does not have community consensus. It represents a local consensus. Also, it leads to absurdity. Now we have the utterly baffling combinatino of titles Ferdinand VI and Charles III, where the first is supposedly clear enough on its own but the primary topic for his successor's name + numeral is in fact a British king. Srnec (talk) 01:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The recent change to NCROY was the result of a two-month-long RfC discussion involving dozens of editors on the talk page of that guideline. The closing editor noted that there was "a strong consensus" for the change. That change was explicitly intended to bring the guideline in line with the article titling policy. Lots of things may be said about it, but "local consensus" is rather misleading. Surtsicna (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * the recent RM result at Frederick IX of Denmark (sorry make that 'now' Frederik IX of Denmark), is yet another growing trend (this time) towards monarch page names being de-englished (examples: William I, German Emperor, Frederick III, German Emperor, yet Wilhelm II), in recent years. PS - I'm quite certain, shortly another RM will be opened there to have "of Denmark" dropped. Anyways, the continuing push for non-english names & the purging of the suffix "of country" from these monarch bio pages, shows no sign of stopping. GoodDay (talk) 09:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Community consensus was clearly against this move. This is not a common clear unambiguous name, as pointed out repeatedly in the comments to allow you to override it. You are not obliged to find consensus not to move.  If it is unclear to you, then "no consensus", and the page remains at its most stable title, which would be "Ferdinand VI of Spain", where it has been for the past twenty years.  On what basis did you override it and discover consensus to move? Walrasiad (talk) 09:55, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * On the basis that none of the opposers cited any guidelines or policies or proved any ambiguity while the supporters cited both the article titling policy and the relevant naming convention. It is explained in the closing comment. Surtsicna (talk) 10:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, Surtsicna is correct. As I noted above WP:RMCI indicates clearly that naming conventions take precedence over the quantity of !votes in an RM. WP:NCROY likewise clearly indicates that the natural disambiguator "of country" should only be used if needed to disambiguate, otherwise it should be dropped. Bensci54 (talk) 14:59, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Potential ambiguity was emphasized, the overwhelming majority opposed the move. If nothing else, WP:IAR would apply. And you're misreading the RCMI instructions.  Read them again.  It explicitly states that it is "move request" that must not conflict with policy, not opposition to it.  Read the RMCI instructions carefully "unless there is a very good reason to ignore rules, should be closed without moving regardless of how many of the participants support it."  Notice that it doesn't say it should be closed and moved. The fact that this page has been stable for twenty years, and this RM generated a great majority of opposition to it being moved, suggests that represents consensus of wider community. The default position in the closing instructions is to not move.  Walrasiad (talk) 16:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * At this point, Surtsicna & Beкочeл (between them) must have opened over 200+ RMs in the last two months alone, with a majority of them resulting in delete "of country". Frustrating it may be, but that's the way the winds are blowing. At such a large scale, it's highly unlikely that any of those monarch bio pages, will ever return to having "of country" in their titles. GoodDay (talk) 17:21, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hm, I suppose you are right. But, at this point, I've already revised my closing once. I don't really want to do it again. If it is a concern perhaps it can be taken to MR? Either way I will avoid closing any more of these types of RMs. Bensci54 (talk) 17:30, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Walrasiad is not right. "Potential ambiguity" argument is making a mockery of the process. If there ever was another Ferdinand VI in history, the opposing editors would have named him. But there was not. The move request you closed is in keeping with naming conventions and policy. Walrasiad and other opposing editors did not cite a single guideline or policy in the discussion. Those who supported it cited guidelines and policy. Walrasiad's suggestion that you ignored rules when closing the discussion is heinous. Surtsicna (talk) 17:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No, I took their reference to WP:IAR as saying I ought to have ignored all rules to close as not moving. They did correctly point out that the text you've made green above refers to the inverse situation, where a page is already at the correct name but there is a proposal to move it off, and doesn't necessarily apply in this situation. Bensci54 (talk) 17:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * That said, I do still think a Move close was correct, because in general WP:RMCI indicates that arguments with policy behind them hold more weight in determining consensus than those that do not, and as you've pointed out and I agree with, none of those who opposed had policy-based arguments. Bensci54 (talk) 18:00, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It is definitely asymmetric. The purpose of the green text is to impose the obligation on the closer to ascertain first whether a move request is possible (that is, not conflicting with policy). Just because a move can be made, doesn't mean it must be made. That's why RMs exist. To determine whether a title change is wanted by the community or not.  And in this case, clearly not.  Walrasiad (talk) 18:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No, RMs exist to determine whether a title change is needed to bring the title in line with Wikipedia's guideline and policies. That is why we do not vote but present arguments. Your arguments did not cut it. "Potential ambiguity". Surtsicna (talk) 18:27, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Move review for Ferdinand VI of Spain
An editor has asked for a Move review of Ferdinand VI of Spain. Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review.

Shirdi Airport
Sorry, I carried out the move request right before I saw your comment. I'll put it back if you have any objections. It looked ok to me. Station1 (talk) 21:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I see someone else has already reverted. There's an RM on the talk page, in case you want to comment there. Station1 (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Virginia Beach RM closing comment
You don’t think contradicting CONCISE and causing untold ambiguity and confusion is good enough reason to IAR a guideline? Wow. What would be good enough? — В²C ☎ 21:52, 18 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I think the "unless there is a very good reason to ignore all rules" exception listed in the guideline is for cases where the rules clearly produce an incorrect name for a specific case, in such a way that the rules did not anticipate for. In this case, you did not present any arguments as to why this specific case ought to be an exception to the rule, but rather only voiced general disagreement with the guideline itself. The correct venue to voice such concerns would be at the talk page for the guideline, rather than at an individual RM. You made the point at the RM that guidelines follow consensus, not the other way around. I agree that this is correct. However, I disagree that an RM is the correct venue for such consensus-forming. Indeed the consensus at WP:RMCI is, as I've mentioned, that policy/guidelines should weigh very heavily in determining a closing, to the point of even overriding !votes, if said !votes are not in line with the guideline/policy. If someone starts an RfC or similar discussion on the WP:USPLACE talk page and a consensus manages to form to drop the state name from US cities when not necessary as a disambiguator, then this RM could be re-opened and would have a greater chance of passing. By the way, I fail to see how Virginia Beach, Virginia presents any more ambiguity and confusion as opposed to Virginia Beach. If anything Virginia Beach is more ambiguous. There is a decent argument to be made concerning WP:CONCISE, but again that argument really should be had at the talk page for WP:USPLACE. Bensci54 (talk) 22:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No, you can’t change the guideline first. That’s not how WP works, which I explained here (and also linked in the RM). The only way naming guidelines change are by showing (usually IAR-based) consensus decisions contrary to the guideline manifested at individual RMs. The confusion created by unnecessarily disambiguated US city titles is the conveyance of the general acceptance of unnecessarily disambiguated titles, which isn’t the case for any other articles. В²C ☎ 12:00, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It is definitely possible to hold an RfC on the talk page of a long-standing guideline, discuss how said guideline violates WP:CONCISE, determine if the community agrees, and then if a new consensus forms, have the guideline changed accordingly. I know this is possible because it has just recently occurred on the talk page for WP:NCROY where the long-standing mandatory pre-emptive disambiguation format of "(name) (ordinal) of (country)" on rulers who are not household names was determined to be in violation of WP:CONCISE and the guideline changed accordingly to remove the "of (country)" unless needed for disambiguation. I see no reason why a similar discussion would not be possible on the talk page for WP:USPLACE. Bensci54 (talk) 13:46, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course it's possible to hold such an RfC and it some rare cases it may garner consensus, but my point is that one's case is much stronger if they can show some precedent consistent with the proposal. Denying the ability to set such precedents creates an unfair bias favoring the status quo. --В²C ☎ 22:45, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Surtees
Hi Bensci54. Thanks for closing the RM discussion at Talk:Surtees Racing Organisation. I was just wondering - are you planning to update all the links to Surtees to link to Surtees Racing Organisation instead? DH85868993 (talk) 05:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


 * @DH85868993 Yes, I can. Not today, though. Maybe tomorrow; I'll work on it in around 12 hours, probably. Bensci54 (talk) 06:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Cool. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 06:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Between us,, and I have updated all the necessary links. DH85868993 (talk) 09:19, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Bensci54 (talk) 13:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Request
Hello, Bensci54,

I see you doing a lot of round robin page moves and I'm hoping you can understand the editor's request with Ennio De Giorgi. I don't move articles in that way so I'm not familiar with what they are asking to be done. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Liz Read! Talk! 22:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The move seemed reasonable to me, so I went ahead and accomplished what he was trying to do, and cleaned everything up short of deleting the Ennio De Giorgi (SWAP) page, which needs an admin to delete. If you could go ahead and delete that page, I think the issue will be settled. Bensci54 (talk) 17:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Holiday Wishes (disambiguation) again
Hi,

turns out User:162_etc. was spot-on here, the other two entries on this dab page are simply no good. For the book, there is no actual mention at all. For the film, Amber Benson was in it, but it's not "by her", and the writer and director, per its IMDb page, don't have pages here, so there's nowhere worthwhile to link to.

Holiday Wishes now has a hatnote pointing directly to Holiday Wishes: From Me to You, which makes the dab page wholly surplus to requirements. Would you mind doing the honours? My bad, my diligence shall be due-er in the future! :)

- 89.183.221.75 (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * This still wouldn't be eligible for WP:G14, as even with these two lines removed, it would still be disambiguating two articles. Bensci54 (talk) 17:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hm. WP:ONEOTHER, second paragraph, states explicitly that "a disambiguation page is not needed" in this situation, though. Personally, I'm not really bothered one way or the other...
 * ETA: Cleaned up the dab page, and tagged it as suggested in the guide. I guess that's that for now.
 * - 89.183.221.75 (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Quick note on Talk:Offence against the person
Thanks for your edits to Talk:Offence against the person.

Is this an accurate read of consensus, or is this too early to close? I am obviously involved in the discussion and looking at the straw poll it is leaning oppose but I don't think the input is enough to gauge consensus, if you were to read the comments. Maybe a relist would be needed for further input? Awesome Aasim 03:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * It was already relisted once, and we aren't supposed to relist more than once without good reason. Changing the ENGVAR of an article is discouraged in general as well, as Necrothesp brought up. So in my view, consensus was agianst moving the page. I do note that consensus on splitting the article as per Visviva's comment could use further development, but RM is not the location for that discussion. Bensci54 (talk) 15:30, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Tasmania Football Club
Could you please elaborate on your reasons for closing this RM as not moved? I know it's tempting to go with whichever side has the numbers, but the opposers haven't put up policy-based arguments here. They've appealed to the "official name" instead of putting forward evidence from third-party sources, or claimed "Football Club" is a consistent styling across AFL clubs when it plainly and verifiably is not. There was a similar RM on Talk:Fremantle Football Club – opposers had the numbers, but made poor arguments – which was relisted. I ask you to consider doing the same for Tasmania. – Teratix ₵ 14:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Hm, I do agree that the policy-backing of opposers is weak, but regardless there weren't any Support !votes at all. I think I will change this to relist similar to what Amakuru did on the Fremantle Club page. Another week couldn't hurt. Bensci54 (talk) 15:34, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter April 2024
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