User talk:Bentnhaf/Archive/2008/September

Formating Exercise
...future subheading entry created to see if the auto-creation of the TC(table of contents) works.... ...it does!
 * ...this would an indented entry...?
 * ...and this onefurther indented ?

bentnhaf (talk) 04:05, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...and this would be a bulleted entry...
 * ...and this another bullet...
 * ...and another.

Basic User Learning
My Wikipedia intuition knowledge base is developing too slowly for me but I shall endeavor to embrace patience....former Wiki User Name issues unresolveable by established Wikipedia policy...moving on.

bentnhaf (talk) 03:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Bentnhaf, welcome to Wikipedia. You mentioned you would like to change your username.  There are methods to do it listed here; however, since you only have a handful of edits, your best course is to simply create a new account under the new name you wish to use instead.  Bentnhaf is a decent moniker though : )  -- M P er el  04:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I responded to this post and then, mysteriously, both the post and response vanished...and then your post reappeared....! I think Viriditas may have keyed the recovery after I screamed.  At any rate, I recap my original response in that my desire to change my user name was trivial since all I wanted was to not capitalize the first character.  By the time you responded with your words above, I'd stumbled onto the Wiki policy requiring capitalized user names...and decided to abandon the mission.
 * bentnhaf (talk) 10:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit conflict
Hmm, someone seems to be deleting stuff on this page. Hope it's you. Makana Chai (talk) 07:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If it was me, it was NOT intended. I'm so new at this that even though I'm sure it wasn't me, I know that in the best of circumstances, I'm capable of making mistakes.  But I'm pressing on. I hope Viriditas or someone can help me slay the "restore" dragon as while I have discovered an acceptable version on my edits history page, my initial attempts to restore have been unsuccessful.
 * bentnhaf (talk) 08:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry. I saw you do it twice and I knew it was an accident just by looking at the diffs.  This has actually happened a number of times before with new users, so I would be very interested in tracking down the problem. Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Shazam and Auwe! You did it. Its been pretty much all restored and I've been thumbing away for hours since now.  I noticed another response from you for adjusting my Palm browser below and will get on that next.---bentnhaf (talk) 12:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Preferences
Try this:


 * 1) Click "my preferences" in the upper right hand corner.
 * 2) Click the tab that says "misc".
 * 3) Check "Disable page caching".
 * 4) Click save.

I'm not sure that will fix the problem, but you have nothing to lose. Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * page caching disabled....now I wait 'n see...
 * bentnhaf (talk) 10:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanx!
Geeze....I been playing with this thing for maybe 15-16 hours...an extravagance I cannot afford very often or I'll be sleeping on bus stop benches soon. But you three, Viriditas, Chai, and MPerel have been absolutely incredible in inspiring me to slay the personal ignorance and menehune that have been my main obstacles this past day. If I honor your investment in me appropriately...I should be several days in Viriditas' provided tutorial agenda of links before I start bugging any of you again. This is my first attempt @ coding in several years as I've studied html, java, basic, and some minor document scripting a while back. Though I haven't updated it in a few years, you can see evidence of my Java and html @ my uh edu site. Its some of my applet assignments for my java classes and some of the writing I've done. So....mahalo nui loa!---bentnhaf (talk) 13:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

WP Hawaii
Follows is the approving response to my initial efforts to be added to the WPH membership list... ---bentnhaf (talk) 03:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You have successfully joined the project. Look for a link to the September newsletter on this page on the first of the month.  Welcome! Viriditas (talk) 04:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Terrific!.....Originally thought I was adding a link to the WPH talk page but now find that it is a link to the useage logic of the banner template that a WPH list member installs @ the head of his own user talk page. I install it here for tutorial reference and seek other WPH talk page links sensing that there is at least one generic Project talk page for WPH. ---bentnhaf (talk) 22:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

kahako/okina
just posted to Makana Chai's talk page a desire to get online access to a Hawaiian Dictionary that acknowledges the term "kahak"...but also seeking the validity of the term I believed until now described the Hawaiian macroned vowel, "kohako."bentnhaf (talk) 04:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I now acknowledge that the word is "kahako" and not "kohako." However, due to the politics referred to below and the inability of my current technology(browser) to parse unicode I will probably not be to attentive to presenting these two diacriticals in this medium.
 * ---bentnhaf (talk) 11:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We might be able to fix that. I'll look into it. Viriditas (talk) 12:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm curious about something: Can you see the okina in any of the following:
 * ʻokina
 * okina
 * &#699;okina
 * &#x02BB;okina
 * Apparently, Palm does not support unicode, but Blazer does. Have you also tried downloading and installing Opera Mini?  I'm running the simulator on this page to test it out. Viriditas (talk) 13:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Test failed for all four entries above. Viriditas (talk) 13:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Testing: ‘okina. Viriditas (talk) 13:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The test above succeeds. This is because the above is U+2018 not U+02BB.  So, why don't you try playing around with ‘.  Can you see ‘ in Blazer? Viriditas (talk) 13:26, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

useage discussion
in the process of this research, I discovered that there are rather heated discussions concerning the use of the kahako/okina that I'd rather not envolve myself in. I'd only like to be able to use/see these diacriticals in my space. As stated above, I won't be able to press this issue till the quality of my current technology improves.
 * I do think its appalling how the county and state governments here in Hawaii have historically avoided using them in varous street/highway signage....
 * ...and that you can't seem to find amongst readily available fonts provided for computer consumption, Hawaiian fonts(unless you pay for them) while other languages that use diacriticals, their fonts are available in the public domain...but I digress.---bentnhaf (talk) 11:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One thing I found out that might help you a bit is you don't need to buy Hawaiian fonts for MS Word. Let me know if you need guidance on that. Makana Chai (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow...how 'bout open source?...I've become an afficionado of open office in recent years and use it almost exclusively since it parses M$ Office stuff. However, until I can afford to get out of the palm environment, any info provided will have to wait till then...'nless you got a Palm Office this thing can hack....?---bentnhaf (talk) 23:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

kahako/okina cont'd

 * Once you enter a subheading or edit an existing subheading on my talk page, I can no longer edit within that subheading without having to erase existing content...that is why I'm answering you in this new subheading immediately below the subheading I can no longer edit.
 * ...concerning the 4 okinaz above, only the word "okina" exists on 4 separate lines. There is no diacritical present.
 * Your suggestion to install the opera browser is a worthy experiment, perhaps, but most major additions to the palm OS usually happen by installing the new utility on the desktop backup installed on a system where I have my treo database backed up onto. Right now, I have no backup system available.....PLUS...
 * I'm bushed and need to pass out...and when I awake, I need to work on cash-making endeavors the next few days so that I can pay rent and put food on the table....It may take me a week to get back to this little exercise after the extravagance of time I've spent here the past day. Cya on the other side---bentnhaf (talk) 14:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. Let me be clear about this.  Opera may solve your cache problem, especially the truncation of longer sections that prevents you from composing replies.  But, it will not solve the unicode issue by itself. Viriditas (talk) 22:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The link above
I added the template above to make it easier for you to communicate with the project. I currently have it on my talk page and the project page. Please tailor it to fit your needs. It can be added to all the talk pages of the participants, so you won't have to worry about deleting anything or repeating yourself. If you want to ask for help or post to the project page, you can use this template instead of having to go out and find help. Just use it for Hawaii related project tasks or delete it and keep it as a future option. It would be interesting to experiment with having access to user talk page discussion threads on the project page. So, you could even use Bentnhaf talk instead. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh!.....so.....next time, don't worry 'bout "redirects" and simply enter my words....ok.---bentnhaf (talk) 01:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want to address the project page without having to visit it and run into cache problems. That's one reason.  Another is to select the users in this discussion and add it to their talk pages.  That way they can help you out immediately if they are online without leaving their talk page.  Since they won't be getting orange bars on talk, you may want to use a bright alert icon that can easily be enabled or disabled.  Viriditas (talk) 01:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Useability Report response
...suddenly found myself on the template talk page when I clicked "edit" on my talk page to comment on your findings....

comment:
 * ...so-o-o-o-o....it sounds like I should abandon any future efforts to 'adjust' blazer.....?.....and either figger out how to take on opera mini or.....get sum better technology so that I can stop having to rely on my thumbs so much(the last won't be happening soon).---bentnhaf (talk) 01:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Archiving Bot Install
Archive bot info link...

Have followed your link to the HBC bot implementation and have too many remaining questions after my first cursory glance through that site.....


 * 1st: How to create the new archive page that I'm supposed to enter the html comment code that turns the bot on and...
 * 2nd: How to syntacticly present nomenclature for the root page template parameter.
 * 3nd: The initial directions say that I need 3 things to start
 * 1. archives
 * 2. a destination page, and
 * 3. a page for the request.
 * If the "destination page" is the new page that has to be created that holds the html comment line that effectively is the switch that turns the bot "on," are the "archives" and the "page for the request" the same page, the "root" page as I describe above, my original talk page?
 * ---bentnhaf (talk) 01:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a few ways to do it. You could use MiszaBot with auto archiving and indexing povided by HBC Archive Indexerbot.  Then again, you can go old skool.  Take a look at your options. Yes, you will need to create subpages like User talk:Bentnhaf/Archive and User talk:Bentnhaf/Archive index. Viriditas (talk) 02:22, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added Werdnabot as a test. Play around with it. Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Haole page edit
Aloha! Mahalo for your comment on my talk page. I don't know what happened. I think you and I agree that the correct word is kahako. Anyway, that is how the word now appears in the article. I was more concerned that the paragraph about St. Chad Pi'ianaia got removed. Anyway, look at the article again and if it doesn't look right to you, please let me know. Welcome to WP and the WP:Hawaii project. I love that "closet historian." I guess that makes me out of the closet, ha ha. Makana Chai (talk) 07:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I just now checked "haole" and still found the use of "kahak"....but my original visit that showed the abreviated reference to "Chad" as you said, is now restored.
 * Methinks it's you're browser - I never used the term "kahak." All Hawaiian words end in a vowel. Dictionary is here http://wehewehe.org/  There may be some missing okino/kohako/kahakos in the text on haole but I believe it's all right, and it's been vetted by a few editors. Makana Chai (talk) 08:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ...me thinx derez menehunes in the ether,,,
 * bentnhaf (talk) 08:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could be ... Makana Chai (talk) 08:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...your link above to the wehewehe site returns an interface that requires Hawaiian language skills I don't have...I was able to grab the english translation of it and the manual of style pages from the WP Hawaii page and place them both here on my talk page down below...thanx for the idea.---bentnhaf (talk) 11:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm just jumping in with a comment about the www.wehewehe.org dictionary. If you look closely in the upper right corner, you'll see a button you can press that will give you an English language interface. Newportm (talk) 04:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

HBC Template

 * (:...above moved to the index sub page)


 * Before you get involved with that, test out the two indexes on your smartphone. For examples, try User talk:Orangemike/Archive index (HBC) and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Malaysia/Archive index (Werdnabot).  My guess is that Blazer doesn't support sortable tables and HBC has more of a footprint on your browsing window.  Now look at the latter example with Werdnabot.  My guess is that the Werdnabot index is ideal for smartphone viewing.  What do you think? Viriditas (talk) 03:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * uh...initial blazer response for skeletal deployment of the index bot shows table creation.....struggling with limited buffer space in transfering code from example sites to my newly created archive and archive index files but pressing on....gonna have to call off the jam shorrly to go to work but....I should get a medal for thumbling or sunpin....---bentnhaf (talk) 04:20, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but you are putting an HBC table in the place where I told Werdnabot to archive your talk page after seven days. You only want one index.  Did you compare the two indexes I gave you above?  If you choose to use HBC, i don't think it works with Werdnabot.  Werdnabot creates its own index (see Malaysia link) and its much more useful for smartphone browsing.  Viriditas (talk) 04:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

further HBC/Werdnabot discussion
locked out up above again... ---bentnhaf (talk) 04:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * of those 2 indexerz above the HBC is a much huge-r archive....I had to abort the download to move on
 * the malaysian one was much smaller but more importantly, I liked the presentation of the archives in date order....thatz the one I want to figger out.
 * Right, that's the one I setup for you. Werdnabot creates the index after x days.  Do you want to adjust the time?

Viriditas (talk) 04:51, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...sure, once a week should be sufficient 'nless u wanna suggest sumpin else....?
 * ...you set it up already....?...I just now checked both the archive and the index file and didn't see any new code....perhaps I need to step back a bit, take breath, and see whut chyu dun....if the result will be something to the effect of the malaysian site archeve/index that'd be kuhl.---bentnhaf (talk) 05:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Default config is currently set at seven days. That's when it will run.  The reason you didn't know, is because I hid the tag using "showheader=no".  Flip that to "yes" and you'll see the tag at the top of your talk page.  There are of course, other tags you can use. Viriditas (talk) 05:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please remember to read this. Viriditas (talk) 05:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Recapitulation
The last few days have occurred almost in a haze of smoke from the frenzied activity in getting my user talk page up and going against, mostly,my ignorance....but bolstered by overly willing and capable support from WP Hawaii members. Surely, that is an extravagance that should not be continuously needed as you all have lives to live that would preclude such constant participation with beginner's struggles. I should be able to begin to participate without ignoring my own time management needs as well. Hopefully, WP Hawaii projects will begin to predominate this page soon. Thanx, again. Let me try and set an agenda for you all to regard in dealing with me... Now, on to the tutorial. ---bentnhaf (talk) 23:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Viriditas set me up with a bunch of lnks which I regard as the initial tutorial for my participation here. Then we got distracted by the suggested need that I should have an archive and attentive bot to manage the oncoming  onslaught that was apparent.  Now, back to the tutorial.
 * To whom it may concern: A provided bibliography of links...such as what Viriditas provided in his "Welcome" above... is a totally acceptable way to respond to me when I have questions about something or you see me begin to stumble into an area you think I may be lacking in knowledge. If you think I would benefit from a point of view or other resource that would give me a more comprehensive understanding, send the list!
 * The limits imposed on my participation by the technology currently available to me is probably not going to change any time soon. Consequently, I'll have to stifle myself when issues of the use of the kahako and okina are involved.  However, I have successfully bookmarked the english version of the Hawaiian dictionary link from the WPH site so as I begin to encounter the language in our reparté, there should be no excuse for me not knowing what's being discussed.

Important questions

 * 1)  What type of computer operating system are you using? (Mac/Windows/Linux)
 * Palm v.3.0D


 * 1)  What type of web browser? (Safari/IE/Mozilla)
 * Palm Blazer v.4.5
 * (both by Access Systems America)

Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Go to Blazer settings menu: Options > Preferences > Advanced. You may have to change your cache settings. Viriditas (talk) 11:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See also: WP:BYPASS. Viriditas (talk) 11:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I went to the advanced browser settings where there were only 2 cache settings to fool with.....One button to "flush cache" now and a check box to flush cache upon exit....there was additionally an info setting to enter the number of MB to set aside for storing pages.
 * I gotta 2GB SD card in the thing but unlike a couple areas, there is no choice to choose between it and internal memory to store browser cache.
 * This is a treo680 and it has 44.8Mb "free" of 66MB of internal storage capacity according to my current info search.
 * I went to the "pass" and installed a "purge" button up above right after your "Welcome" entry.
 * I occasionally get error windows indicating that the browser, suddenly, cannot parse a php file...I have to do a system reset to recover from that till before I can again parse server files.---bentnhaf (talk) 13:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Something that would greatly help you at this moment in time, is the use of an archive index and bot. You need to keep this talk page as small as possible, one or two threads maximum will streamline your mobile experience and give you more uptime. Highly recommend it. Viriditas (talk) 23:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Start here. Viriditas (talk) 23:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I gotta 2GB SD card in the thing but unlike a couple areas, there is no choice to choose between it and internal memory to store browser cache
 * I'm pretty sure there is a way to hack it so that it uses the memory card. This might be easier to do with Opera Mini, I don't know, but I'm sure it is possible.  Gotta love this: Opera_Mini. Viriditas (talk) 09:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Potential Other Areas of Interest

 * Am also a 'closet' historian and may wander into historical Wiki areas and be tempted participate there as well.---bentnhaf (talk) 04:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Great! The history of Hawaii series of articles needs attention. Contact me for details. Viriditas (talk) 04:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Also have crude Nihongo skills that might tempt me to explore Wiki Japanese culture @ some future time.---bentnhaf (talk) 14:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We have dozens of Japanese culture, Hawaii-related articles. Should I compose a list of them for you? Viriditas (talk) 09:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure but, I really do need to concentrate on the tutorial so that every time I want to edit/format I don't have to bug you. If you do make it, put it up above in the tutorial space so that the archiver won't grab it.  It may sit there for a while till I git tuit.---bentnhaf (talk) 17:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Important Questions continued
c hacking my 2GB sd card, a quick glance @ the link tells me it would require a substantial investment in time just to figger if it were possible and I sense it would be quicker to make do with what I got....concentrate on the user tutorial...and wait till I git more powerful technology @ my disposal. The 680 is 'bout 4-5 generations back from current treo models and let's face it, corporate culture is not, not, interested in extending the productive life of a model when they have newer stuff in inventory they desperately want to sell...especially in a declining consumer market! I need to get through the economic valley right now 'n scurry up the ridge on the other side and see whutz over there.---bentnhaf (talk) 17:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

MoS & H->ED
Hopefully, I'll be able to transfer the links for the WP Hawaii's Manual of Style and Hawaiian Dictionaries links here....they're here and they work!---bentnhaf (talk) 23:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have now added these 2 to the front of my browser bookmarks list and so won't be kerflumexed when the archiver grabs 'em.---bentnhaf (talk) 17:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

"Welcome" edit
 Hey Viriditas, can you remove the time stamp from the "Welcome" subheading you provided me above so that the archiver won't take it. I tried to do it but once again, the "Show Preview" button indicated that my effort was gonna toss almost all of the links away. Canceling the edit preserved the section as you provided it but....the time stamps still have to be removed to keep it @ the top of the page tiil I'm ready to toss it or archive it in the future...thanx.---bentnhaf (talk) 04:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, but I think you can leave the timestamp in as long as it is in section zero. Everything from section 1 is archived...

I removed the section heading to see if that works. Viriditas (talk) 08:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ....so....yer sayin' that everything from section 1 onward will be archived according to the time of action setting...provided...it is time-stamped...ok.
 * Hmmm.....that aspect of the section 0 to archiver relationship I hadn't heard about. I guess we'll see w/in the week, thanx.---209.183.55.4 (talk) 16:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

revision history
You added 'bout a 100Bytes to my page and said "play with it." I can't find what you left to play with. I'm beginning a habit of coming on the site by going directly to the revision history page to see what has changed. If your comments identify the section number or heading, I'll know exactly where to go. I'll also do the same.---bentnhaf (talk)
 * Use the edit section 0 link. Viriditas (talk) 05:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

page/section edit proposal
Currently, when exiting a page editing session, regardless whether a change was made or the session canceled, the browser returns to the top of the page that was being subjected to the editing session.
 * Could the exiting return the editing user to the section # on the page from where he/she entered the editing session rather than to the top of the page? This would be similar to the behavior of the history 'arrow' that behaves this way.---bentnhaf (talk) 23:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh. Take it up at the village pump maybe, I can't think of where you'd make a suggestion like that. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 02:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This one, specifically. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 02:03, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - September 2008
Aloha. The September 2008 issue of the Hawaii WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaii 14:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)