User talk:Berkh

August 2010
Your addition to Berkhoff (surname) has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other websites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. VernoWhitney (talk) 15:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The copyright permission has been given d.d. 8/12/2010. Copyright permissions for the Dutch and German version has been given too. Kind regrads, --Berkh (talk) 07:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

January 2011
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 * Hello JamesBWatson, Thank you for your remarks. Indeed I am affiliated with the names. Therefore I try to operate with great caution and integrity. Several weblinks you give I had for this reason already taken a look at, but you also give some new ones for me. Kind regards, --Berkh (talk) 20:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

International Wooden Shoe Museum Eelde
Those links are a good start, and you can certainly add them in. Reliable, third-party sources are what we're looking for, and if you can find 4 or 5 of them you can remove the notability tag. For some guidance, see this page. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 20:34, 10 November 2011 (UTC)


 * See also: User_talk:The_Blade_of_the_Northern_Lights. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 20:49, 10 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Blade of the Northern Lights. I added several reference. I hope this is enough. Otherwise let me know. I removed the tags. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 08:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Re: Wannée Kookbook
Dear Berkh, thank you for your question on my talk page. I've added the refimprove-tag to your article because I felt that an English-language source, if available, would improve the article's verifiability. While it is perfectly OK to add sources in any other language, English should be preferred in the English Wikipedia (see: WP:NONENG). The other tag is just a technical issue, because the use of inline citations is highly encouraged on Wikipedia. Please understand that I do not want to criticize your work in any way. With adding these tags I just wanted to help you to further improve your article. Best regards --Phileasson (talk) 14:13, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello Phileasson, Thank you for your explanation. I searched for English articles. In vain. Only recipes and second hand editions. Dutch articles are hard to find to. The article of the Koninklijke Bibliotheek, or the Dutch Library of Congress, is by far the best I could find. Dutch cookbooks are hidden cultural heritage. I hope it is okay now. BTW tags should be more informative. It is not the first time. A picture of the Nieuwe Haagse Kookboek was removed recently because of copyright violations without any explanation in the tag. Finally it proved to be that the authors of the book were not 75 years years dead already. These kind of puzzles out of laziness costs unneccessary time and frustration. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 16:56, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

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Category:Pastry chefs by nationality
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July 2013
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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 06:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Xiounina, ''From assimilation to segregation: The Dutch Colony in Saint-Petersburg,  1856-1917  [http://irs.ub.rug.nl/ppn/303294035 Van assimilatie tot segregatie: De Nederlandse kolonie in Sint-

Edit conflict
You beat me to the revert Berkh! I was just going to add "Please see discussion page at the end of "Clogs in the Netherlands" for a rationale." as an edit summary to help user:Hafspajen understand why. I'll leave it in your capable hands. Regards and best wishes for 2014, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:19, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Martin, I studied user:Hafspajen userpage and I got the impression he was just throwing a stone in the pond as a Wikidragon (?). See his userboxes. He removed a picture of British clogs because it is (indeed) a duplicate. But when he is an academic with three degrees, he should be able to understand that by adding the picture of the Dutch girls, there are three pictures of Dutch clogs. I don't know for sure, but I thought three is more than two?! Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 18:40, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Lancashire clogs
Thanks for the reversion. I would have never thought of looking for a page called XXXX (British). There was no clear link in the Clog page.- My interest is specifically Lancashire and 1623 clogmakers there in 1841- out of an England and Wales total of 3246! Reference: Clitheroe leaflet, and the woodworking tools and techniques used. There are some excellent You Tube videos that appear to suggest that there were two methods to document- the artisan which I did, and the factory system of Walkley's. I will look at the pages again and see what redirects we need to allow a Lancashire readers to hit the right page. I moved the discussion here as it seems if you have been working in this area for a long while.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 09:43, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello ClemRutter, I am sorry for all the effort you put into it. I think it is interesting that in Lancashire 1841 half of the clog makers in England and Wales could be found. It is briefly mentioned in the section History on the page clog (British). Some additional information, Youtube films and web links can be interesting. As a Dutch man I am curious why there were so many clog makers there? In The Netherlands there was something likewise. At the end of the 19th century a lot of Dutch clogs were made in Belgium. After World War I, when the neutral Netherlands renewed trade with Belgium (there was an electric fence between Belgium and The Netherlands) there were so many clogs that the clog making industry collapsed and clogs were used as fire wood for more than a decade. I have no knowledge about English clogs. It is unfortunate and remarkable that there is not much known about different national clogs in the English language. Hopefully Wikipedia will "generate" this in time. You will probably meet User:Martin of Sheffield on the clog (British) page. He has also contributed significantly on the page clog. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 14:34, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Clem, it's been a while since we've run into each other. A bit of history first: the original clog page was heavily biased towards the Dutch style of clog.  I added some details about English clogs and in co-operation (yes - Wiki does sometimes work well!) with Berkh split off all the regional forms of clogs and kept the main page as an overview.  The aim is to pull in all the various form of clogs into the gallery and use that to redirect the user to the specific articles.  Having just one type of clog in the "see also" doesn't make sense, so I'll probably revert you in that change.  However, I'm concerned that an experienced editor like yourself didn't understand the gallery-as-index nature, and so I'm about to have a serious think about how we lead the user to the required information.  I think an introductory sentence and a removal of all links other than those to clog articles would be indicated; I'm not sure that wikilinking country names helps in understanding what clogs are!
 * Having had a quick run around the various clog-type articles, I'm disappointed in clogging/clog dance (more there) and also in the disambiguation page. I may have a go at improving it shortly. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:49, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Berkh, Martin. This started at a museum display in Clitheroe Castle Museum where we ran a edit-a-thon in September. The photos went into Commons:Category:Clitheroe Castle Museum clogs display and there was a leaflet One Two. Martins page is fully referenced and far better quality than my 2.00 am paragraphs and essentially uses the same sources. I have compared the clog page with its equivalent page shoe and there are some sections missing- I am particularly concerned with the lack of any details on manufacturing (Construction). Briefly there are 4 methods that need adding - I am not suggesting hat we break the existing structure but just add a section- and do the 4 descriptions. I suspect that we had so many cloggers and clogmakers in Lancashire as the two occupations are not being separated- still that enough for tonight. We can see if anyone else has ideas.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Full wooded clogs by artisan methods, there must be a special knife- and a speialist knife maker to document.
 * Full wooded clogs by machine methods: this category may be of use Commons:Category:Baudin machinery. I do like the lathe that turns the blocks, and then the router that copies the cut from a 3D template- I'd love to have a go. The Baudin machines appear to be used in the Netherland too. I have started on Lurcy-Lévis I place I have never visited but pass at least twice a year- so it is on my to-visit-list.
 * Composite clogs by artisan methods- like my piece and Martins article English clogs
 * Composite clogs by machine methods- I think this could be based on Walkley's clogs, they appear to use a belt sander to carve the sole. They seem to have a lot of background info on their website. We did have a Walkley's clog mill in Mytholmroyd, and an interesting fire.
 * Please don't use the past tense referring to Walkey's Clogs, they appear from their web site to be very much still in business at Mytholmroyd! That quite spoilt my morning - what would I wear. :-o Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:35, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello Martin and Clem. I was on the road yesterday, so I had not the time to think about what you both wrote and the changes Martin made. The (now old) clog page is certainly not ideal in my opinion. The page is meant as an introductory page for a great variety of wooden footwear worldwide. There is quite an amount of pictures of clogs (but there is still much more). From the information available, it is only possible to distill an introduction for European clogs, not for those from Asia or Africa. Because there is such a great variety and manufacturing techniques, the separate pages for "national" clogs seems to me the best place to give information of different national origin, history and manufacturing. I like the recent changes Martin made on the page clog. The paragraphs "Origin", "Manufacture" and "Gallery" seems logical to me. But ... the page, or better the information, is now European centered. Further I think we should try to avoid the paragraph "Manufacturing" becoming a detailed paragraph about techniques and tools used in specific countries. It must stay a general description. So, I like the new paragraphs, but I think it still not ideal. I wil make a few minor adjustments, as you will see. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 07:15, 30 October 2015 (UTC).

BTW, can we stop referring to them as "Lancashire" clogs, particularly since the major manufacturer is in Yorkshire! From my moniker you can deduce a partisan prejudice, but even so "Lancashire" is inaccurate. I would suggest "English" if we want to disambiguate from Welsh, or "British" for the more general case. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:28, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

The shop where I bought my last pair was on St Leonardsgate in Lancaster- and those were the ones I used while doing a vacation job in a mill in Halton-on-Lune. That was probably in 1973- and they were called Lancashire clogs in the shop. They were of a high back shoe design- but we haven't got much option now and I think we need to make a field trip to Mytholmroyd and buy a neet pair. The only times I have seen 'real clogs' being sold in the south have been at folk festivals. I am fairly laid back about what we call them- but English is a little UKIP, as is British. At home, I would call them Northern clogs- but that doesn't internationalise particularly well. If it is any help I have moved from PGTips to Taylors Yorkshire Tea.

Can I ask you, an the Clogs (British) article you use your (almost trademarked) formatted cite references in the bibliography- is there a reason why you miss out a |ref=harv or a |ref= so we can establish full linking from sfn-> reflist->Bibliography ? -- Clem Rutter (talk) 10:22, 30 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm moving this discussion to the talk page in order to seek consensus for a change. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:57, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

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