User talk:Bgwhite/Archive 10

Loss of flag
Hi just spotted a second occurrence of a flag loss in this edit where the change incorrectly removes the needs-photo flag from the WikiProject Biography template without replacing it with another template. Keith D (talk) 14:49, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Having got through my watchlist I have found 10 instances of this and corrected them, suggest you check through the rest of these types of edits to pick-up on others. Keith D (talk) 15:56, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You place the image requested on every page you create. The template is not a general-purpose "no image present" indicator.  Of all 5,000+ Olympic stubs recently created, only your one sentence stubs have the image requested tag and it is not needed.  Also, you are adding the general purpose photo requested and not the more specific tag such as the one for volleyball players. Bgwhite (talk) 20:14, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have placed the flag on numerous living people to indicate that a photo is required, it is not just on the subs that I have created to complete the set of GB Olympic athletes. The template puts it in the more specific category once the appropriate work groups are added. Also a bot switches them to separate templates at some point. Keith D (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for information
Hi Bgwhite: thanks for your message. I have reviewed and bookmarked the WPBIO template documentation and have updated the templates I use to include the priority paramaters (sports-priority, etc.) as recommended. I appreciate your patience and understanding. All the best--FeanorStar7 (talk) 08:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Optivion deletion and rollback
The article creator for Optivion removed all the tags. I did a rollback back to your AfD, and posted a warning on User talk:Angelina2121. --DThomsen8 (talk) 16:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible bug in BG19bot
I suspect your bot may have a bug, specifically the DEFAULTSORT cleaning task. See this edit - the DEFAULTSORT does indeed contain special characters (the ǀ character) but the edit didn't remove them, or in fact change the DEFAULTSORT at all. (I've not removed the special characters myself, in case you need it as-is for testing.) - htonl (talk) 22:21, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This character should be omitted or replaced by an other? -- Magioladitis (talk)
 * It should be omitted. Bgwhite (talk) 22:27, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What would be the expected DEFAULTSORT value for this page? -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:33, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ai-Ais Richtersveld Transfrontier Park Bgwhite (talk) 22:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What is this character exactly? I wonder. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Magioladitis (talk) 22:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

rev 8399 is now available at http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ It fixes all the bugs you reported so far. Bring me more! -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:53, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

rev8414 is now available at http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ No more Vietnamese! -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Change using AutoEd
Your recent edit debolded the symbol R for the set of real numbers in a section heading. Are you sure this is appropriate, considering that it is bold wherever it is used? — Quondum 14:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Article heading is already bold. Article was added to a CheckWiki list.  It will continually be added to the list and removed by some schmuck like me.   I tried finding a MOS rule for bolding, but didn't find any. Bgwhite (talk) 18:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. I also wikilinked unit sphere. Still article is a bit confusing because it's not clear to me what the "R" in the leading section is. Why the definition is only limited for vector spaces over the real numbers? -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Top-level section headings (as in this case) do not appear to be bold. But it's good to know that these things get flagged; I agree then that it may be best to avoid bold in section headings. — Quondum 19:20, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that
I didn't mean to delete that "living" tag if it's supposed to be there. My apologies. Here's hoping it stays on that talk page for many years to come. =) Kaszubian (talk) 00:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just go around and indiscriminately kill people off. If I had a Wikipedia article, it would say living=no... my brain has been dead for years. Bgwhite (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Phallic architecture
Can you look in JSTOR for "phallic architecture", "phallic building" or "phallic/penis sculpture" to assist with this? How is your bot going?♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:15, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, this is a most unusual request. I'll make sure I'm searching when my wife is sitting next to me.  Is the evil Ernst Blofeld wanting to chop off some phallics?  I finished your Turkey request.  However, I think you forget or didn't mention other provinces.  I remember Hopa, can't remember others.  Bgwhite (talk) 18:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you access this. ]♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

We got our own TARDIS
Not really, but our new cage (I will have to look into that redirect) is TARDIS blue. I have since named it as such, the Time and Relative Dimension in Shaft. Is the new season on there, there are some saved on my PVR from when I get back home in two weeks. --kelapstick(bainuu) 09:45, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH. I forgot about it.  I was going to use a VPN to get the BBC feed.  Less than two weeks left for Amy.  Sniff.  I hope the BBC still has this season's episodes on-line.  I think it is VPN time tomorrow.   I like your version of the TARDIS and I think you have too much time on your hands.  Can I have one too? Bgwhite (talk) 05:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just confirmed I have three on PVR at home. Is it not on regular tv there? It was an interesting conversation when I named it, I was talking with a guy at work at the top of the shaft (1385 meter deep hole). The cage arrived on surface, and he was complaining about the name on it (the manufacturer). It just came to me, "that thing is TARDIS blue!" the name was a no brainer, as we are definitely in a time warp here! There is a bbc tv app for iPad, if you are an apple guy, don't know if it will work stateside though. VPN express will work for that though. --kelapstick(bainuu) 12:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

JSTOR
Re your e-mail, I think we've got at cross purposes here - I requested the article at WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request, and have already had it provided by User:Churn and change. I'm not sure why Dr. Blofeld thinks I need it? Did he want it for himself perhaps? AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * According to the Resource Exchange page, Dr. Blofeld said he have me get your request. I have access to all the academic databases, so Blofeld asks me for various articles. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. Bgwhite (talk) 01:58, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

priority/nested
If we need to remove deprecated parameters such as priority and nested you should first leave a note to the Template's or WikiProject's talk page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The next three days I am zerging the category with the blank priority. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I noticed you were having fun today with it. But beware, the Protoss and I will crash down upon you after you are weakened by attacking priority for so long.  Bgwhite (talk) 21:45, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

It's crazy but we did it! -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I was counting down after it reached 10,000 to go. YEA!!!! Bgwhite (talk) 23:02, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 405,000 pages in 4 days! I am excited!!! -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey, how are you?
Hey, hows the editing going? Having fun on Wikipedia? --UnhappyandNoFriends (talk) 22:48, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Robert Colquhoun
Hi, this edit by BG19bot to the Robert Colquhoun page cased the infobox to become broken. Could you please check your bot for errors that may have caused this. Thanks. -- Cactus.man  &#9997;  05:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I sent in a bug report on this four months ago link and they said it wasn't AWB. Will re-report it again.  Thank you for your message.  Bgwhite (talk) 06:06, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Magioladitis, I can't reproduce it. I just tried with a sandboxed version of the article and with the exact settings I used.  I know the error does happen.  I've seen it vary rarely happen when I run things manually.  Going thru the logs of BG19, I've found the following when looking at 1000 articles that were change:  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.  Every time it is with awards. Bgwhite (talk) 06:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. There seem to be a few infoboxes being affected. I did a very quick review of some articles around the Robert Colquhoun series of edits the bot made and discovered some more fairly quickly. Some of the changes are quite subtle and hard to detect, but introduce clear errors nevertheless (Robert II Keith, Marischal of Scotland for example). It looks like this may be serious enough to consider shutting the bot until the problem can be solved, or not allowing it to edit infobox data. Some sample infobox problems below:


 * Robert Tollast — Before After BG19bot
 * Robert II Keith, Marischal of Scotland — Before After BG19bot
 * River Alexander — Before After BG19bot


 * I see you've been working on fixing some already. Good luck, I hope it's not too big a task. Regards.-- Cactus.man  &#9997;  07:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Bot usually runs in talk space. This past time, it was fixing a problem in article space and it has finished.  This hasn't happened before when running in article space, but I won't run it there again until the problem has been solved.  Thank you for your help. Bgwhite (talk) 07:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you forget the custom module activated perhaps? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It was not activated. I also tested it out with it activated and the error did not show up. Bgwhite (talk) 08:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you try to do at the same page the bug reoccurs? -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Check whether you have and Find and Replace options (activated OR disactivated. Maybe it's a bug from our side). Check you append/prepend text. If everything is blank, email me your settings file. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed. You had custom module activated. Code is there and bug occurred when I activated the custom module. the custom module has some fixes for awards parameter in the talk page. The problem is that these changes are supposed to happen only for WikiProjects and are done for every template. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * My stupidity knows no bounds. I swear I didn't have that activated and I tried reproducing the bug with it activated. Arrrgghhh. Bgwhite (talk) 21:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

interpretation of WP:MCSTJR
Hi, this bot deleted the category of language in a citation in the article Alberta Ballet with the reasoning that it is following WP:MCSTJR. I looked at WP:MCSTJR, and it didn't seem to have anything to do with the language of a source. Am I missing something? Dkreisst (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For some reason, the Alberta Ballet article was placed into the CheckWiki error page DEFAULTSORT missing for titles with special letters. I don't see the reason why the page was placed there as there was no DEFAULTSORT set in the article.
 * While at a page, the bot will perform some "general fixes", among which is the removal of english. As this is the English Wikipedia, having this parameter is redundant. Bgwhite (talk) 18:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * DEFAULTSORT missing for titles with special letters" stores pages with special characters in the title and no DEFAULTSORT. So the real question: Why this page was there since there is no special characters in the title. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ...and the answer is that a redirect of this page was in the list and that this edit fixes the problem! Disactivate "Follow redirects" on the options menu to avoid these problems. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit was made before I made sure "follow redirects" was turned off in all my different AWB settings. I ended up doing everything in that CheckWiki category manually because of so many redirects and Dr. Blofeld's request. Bgwhite (talk) 18:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Is the english parameter redundant in this case because the source is written in English and we assume all sources are English unless stated otherwise? Dkreisst (talk) 20:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Bgwhite (talk) 20:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
TheChampionMan1234 05:47, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank You
THANK U — Preceding unsigned comment added by ErGebo (talk • contribs) 13:04, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much indeed 4 your help. I'm so happy to find here my comunity. ♥♥♥ ErGebo --ErGebo (talk) 12:30, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Broken table
Hi, with BG19bot added an unnecessary heading inside a table, which broke the page layout. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No it didn't. It didn't add any heading.  There is no table on the page. It didn't change the layout.  There is no visible changes between the two versions.  What are you saying that broke? Bgwhite (talk) 19:44, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It did add an unnecessary and undesired "Untitled" heading to the Homeopathy WikiProject banner. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  19:50, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see it. Still didn't break the page layout. Bgwhite (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The banner was weirdly formatted, probably to avoid the "inactive" notice. The edit probably happened because of the nonstandardness of the banner. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  19:58, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * To me, a heading appearing inside a box is a broken layout. If other sections had been added to the page, triggering a TOC, the layout would have been broken even worse, . -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:40, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Re: Big
Greetings, Yes, I'll remove the big tag.. the problem is the Unicode character is too small for a talk page link. You may update Archive 7–9 in archive list above i this talk page! Best  Tito Dutta  ✉  19:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent! I have added it in my preference page! Best Tito Dutta ✉ 21:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Andreas Boltz
Patience!♦ Dr. Blofeld  06:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If I had known you wrote it, I would immediately put it up for a speedy delete. If I see an unreferenced article I put the tag on.  I'm sure you were just too busy looking at phallic architecture an forgot to add a ref.  I've been researching a certain volleyball player, so I'm amazed I had time for placing the tag.  :) Bgwhite (talk) 06:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Hehe. We'll likely DYK it. For some reason he reminds me of a German Aled Jones... "Er ist in der Luft zu Fuß". Yep, and the world's most beautiful woman award goes to..♦ Dr. Blofeld  07:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally like this photo. I looked at her age and cried.  I'm toooooo old. Bgwhite (talk) 07:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Eeks I didn't know she was that young!! I thought she was about 25. Anybody born 1990 or later I tend to view them as children when I see their DOB! Makes you feel old!♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:48, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Help
Sorry, I want to ask u - How can I report if in Wiki_Italy there are administrators who do not cooperate in the drafting of other Wikipedians and exclude them from the work rather than help them to improve and refine the articles? Here I found the collaborative style that I thought to find in wikipedia and I thank you for saying "welcome" to me. I hope I can improve and help write new articles. --ErGebo (talk) 13:03, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't help you on the Italian Wikipedia as I don't know Italian. However, there should be a help desk, I think this is a good spot to ask some questions. Bgwhite (talk) 18:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * thanks a lot - I try to do something but I think I'm not able to restore the same page they had delated. --ErGebo (talk) 13:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Try creating the article in your sandbox. A sandbox is place to create an article without it going "live".  A place where you can take your time in creating the article without it being deleted.  After you are finished, ask for help in evaluating the article.  They will tell you what you need to improve the article.  Eventually you can move the article into main space to become "live".  Bgwhite (talk) 18:22, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Plain
Items in Category:Biography articles with plain priority parameter have priority mid or higher. How should we treat them? -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:21, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought about using the Catscan2 tool to pick off some obvious categories... mostly sports articles. This way, we could add yes and mid or high.  Some politicians and actors could be done the same way.  This should take care of ~1/2 of them.  However, the Catscan2 brings up ALOT with just priority.  I was thinking of doing a database scan at the next dump to remove the blank priority, then doing the Catscan2.   As for the other half, I hadn't thought of anything besides manually doing them.  Bgwhite (talk) 21:22, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you ErGebo. I hope you fun time editing here.  Don't get too discouraged about your Italian articles. Bgwhite (talk) 18:26, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

BLPProd confusion
I'm afraid that people will remain confused as long as the addition standard is different from the removal standard. Do you think now that the stakes are lower people might be more receptive to finally harmonizing the split standard? Gigs (talk) 14:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, confusion will still reign. I see 3-4 editors a week confused on the BLPProd rules, that includes seasoned editors. I try to explain the rules.  In the summer of 2011, there was a big discussion about harmonizing the standard, but after much "heated" debate it went nowhere.  It was mostly those who don't work with BLPProd vs those who do. Bgwhite (talk) 18:29, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Elliott Miles McKinley
Hello. There is currently a discussion at regarding. Please review. Your correction of the default source helped bring this to my attention. Thank you. Jrcrin001 (talk) 19:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I answered at ANI. An article that was previously deleted via AFD can be speedied for deletion.  However, the person may now be notable, this happens alot to athletes.  For example, a non-notable tennis player finally wins a tennis match or plays in a Grand Slam becomes notable.  These cases are usually easy to spot. McKenley's case is different.  I have speedied these in the past only to get yelled at because the new article has new information or is substantially different.  Us non-admins can't see the old version.  My requests to admins to have them see the old version and compare are now being ignored.  So, the choice is to speedy and get yelled at by an admin or be ignored by admin.  Joy.  Bgwhite (talk) 20:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Tsuneo Maeda
Please do not remove the BLPPROD tag from Tsuneo Maeda unless you can reference a statement with a reliable source. A reference to at least one reliable source is a requirement in order to remove a BLPPROD tag. Links to unreliable sources are not enough to remove a BLPPROD tag. Read BLPPROD for details. —Farix (t &#124; c) 20:52, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Stop adding the BLPPROD tag. It was illegally added in the first place as two external links were present.  Read your talk page before complaining here. Bgwhite (talk) 20:54, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPPROD requires at least one reliable source. Neither IMDb or ANN's encyclopedia are reliable sources. —Farix (t &#124; c) 20:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * NO. It requires no sources in any form for a BLPPROD tag to be added. Read the second sentence in WP:BLPPROD. Bgwhite (talk) 21:00,  21 September 2012 (UTC)

James Wyndham John Hughes-Hallett
Hi. Just wondering why you rv the postnomials in this article's lede. Yours, Quis separabit?  23:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Two looked pretty trivial and shouldn't be added. Third look iffy. I don't mind at all how you have it labeled now.  Bgwhite (talk) 23:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback on 23 August 2012
Have you seen I use customized talkback header (Twinkle preference) to avoid duplicate headers in user's talk page? I am planning to make further changes and add name too like "Talkback on "Date" from Tito Dutta" Tito Dutta ✉  08:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You have a new message in the same page! --Tito Dutta ✉ 09:05, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I Like Chinese
Could you please leave a comment at Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Feature_requests ? -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Congo 200,000 edits!
Congrats for completing 200,000 edits (per WP:EDITS, not Toolserver's) :-) --Tito Dutta ✉ 03:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to RfC
Hi Bgwhite. I wanted to invite you to participate in an RfC regarding adding color differentiation to Wiki markup, particularly towards references. You are welcome to participate whenever you are able. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 07:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the double message. I have a habit of forgetting headers...the "back button" solution did not work, as I now know.  I, Jethrobot  drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 07:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation newsletter
Hey. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.

Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs to the usual address :). We'll be holding a couple of office hours sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Dutch name sort key
Hi Bgwhite, I think I have been here before on this issue, but I just noticed your recent edit to the sortkey of Christian van den Queborn. Dutch names need to be sorted from the name after the prepositions, and not from the prepositions. I believe this is very confusing and that is why there is a Wikipedia article about it here: Dutch name. On Wikipedia, we tend to use the naming and sorting conventions of the geographical locations of historic people. Since Belgium has only been around since 1830, the people from that geographical area before 1830 are sorted as if they had Dutch names, and not Belgian names. Also, in the case of historic artists, we tend to use the name listed in the Getty database, no matter how inaccurate. Thus we (and museums) use Aart van Antum instead of the correct Aert Anthonisz, and so forth. He is sorted "Antum, Aart van" and not "Van Antum, Aart" because he was from Amsterdam. In the case of painters from Antwerp (today well within Belgian territory), we have "Anthony van Dyck", who is sorted "Dyck, Anthony van", because he was born well before 1830 and is listed in numerous catalogs before 1830 as a Dutch name. I hope this helps you remember: sort the "VanderX" first based on 1) geographical birth and 2) birth before or after approximately 1810. Thanks, Jane (talk) 06:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yea, I forgot the 1830 rule. No need for a lecture as I originally put it into WP:MCSTJR.  Will probably make the same mistake again sometime.  Sorry.
 * "historic artists, we tend to use the name listed in the Getty database" Where is this written?  It is not in WP:NAMESORT and has not been discussed there as far as I can tell (but might not have seen it).  Therefore, it is not Wikipedia policy.  There should not be individual policy's... if artist look here, if dancer look there, etc.  There is only one special case and this is for Brazilian footballers.  What Brazilian people go by and what their names are usually very different.  So, for any Brazilian, it is very difficult to use any standard.  This is a general encyclopedia, not an artist encyclopedia.
 * I don't care what individual museums have it as. I care what the standards are and museums generally follow International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions.  This guide is written by each individual country's national library.  Only when in doubt, consult the main museum/library from a person's country. Bgwhite (talk) 06:51, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I can imagine your frustration, and I am glad to see WP:MCSTJR! Of course my tips are not firm rules, but my experience over the years has taught me that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" and in the case of artists, the "squeaky wheels" tend to be the world's biggest museums, not the libraries of the birth countries of the artists. That said, of course we are still talking about people and naming them is a very emotional topic, so none of this is set in stone. The reason I spelled it all out again is in the hope I can prevent a wrong sortkey happening again, but also because I personally don't like to revert experienced Wikipedians. Please don't think I don't appreciate the work you do. Happy sorting, Jane (talk) 18:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Hello Bgwhite, thanks a lot for your help. I have already done a sandbox and then an administrator help me finally. But I think there is something wrong in the people (some administrators). It seems me like...hazing, because I find on line (in Wiki.it) something like this http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Marchetti, but instead they tell me that this article http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:ErreGebo/sandbox cannot be reported in wiki.it.

I think that I need the help of an administrator (Master I or II) because the administrator who had helped me...had to submit to their decision... thanks, best regards, ErGebo --ErGebo (talk) 14:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, I looked around the Italian pages. It looks like you have gotten a one month block.  Nothing you can do there for a month.
 * On the article, it really needed some sources. They kept deleting the article because of the lack of sources.  In the next month, search for sources... newspaper articles, journal article, websites.  If you can get the references, then the article should be allowed.  In Wikipedia land, it doesn't matter how popular or important one may be if there are no sources.  Bgwhite (talk) 22:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
I love them...and u?

ErGebo (talk) 14:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC) 

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 07:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Articles Italian politicians
Hello Bgwhite, I think I could change the incomplete articles related to Italian politicians. A bit at a time... Check out it if u could. Thanks. Best regards.

--ErGebo (talk) 12:06, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Why did you delete picture after copyright notice was sent in?
Hi, based on your delete request, the file Gene_Paul_at_Atlantic_Records.jpg was deleted from the Gene Paul wikipedia article despite Gene Paul emailing proof of copyright to Wikipedia as instructed. Can you please advise on why this was deleted? The discussion page said "Gene Paul holds the copyright for this picture and is emailing verification to Wikimedia Commons (permissions-commons@wikimedia.org) on 8/28/12." Please let me know what needs to be done to assure Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons that this is not a copyright violation. Thanks.Lovelounge (talk) 21:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no proof that you sent anything in. Permission-commons (OTRS people) decide if there is proof. They have not posted anything to the photo that it is ok to publish on Wikipedia.  I'm not involved with OTRS.  The best place to ask is at OTRS noticeboard.
 * I would rather have several dentists appoints with drilling involved than deal with OTRS. They can be difficult to deal with them because they follow the letter of the law and make sure every i is dotted.  Generally just an email sent into them from Gene Paul will not be enough.  Just have patience and several OTRS voodoo dolls to stick pins in with.  The photo can be restored once OTRS deems permission has been granted. Bgwhite (talk) 21:54, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: File:Michele Ragussis - Guy Fieri.jpg
Hello Bgwhite. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of File:Michele Ragussis - Guy Fieri.jpg, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Editor asserts fair use; F9 does not apply. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:36, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Ivanhoe, Victoria‎ edit and others
Hello, there was a reason for the space. With it there Ivanhoe sorts before Ivanhoe East, which would seem to be the normal sorting convention; looks ugly the other way. Regards Crusoe8181 (talk) 07:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no spaces before the comma. Of the ~2,000,000 articles with DEFAULTSORT, there are currently 180 with a space before the comma.  Victoria's pages should be handled like everyone else.  But, you do bring up a good point. Hmmm, time to bug a developer. Bgwhite (talk) 08:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
for cleaning up bio defaultsort issues... SatuSuro 08:31, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Biography query
Couple of queries on your edit to the WPBiog tag on talk:Tiffany J. Curtis. 1. You removed needs-photo; why? 2. You changed filmbio to a&e, but WikiProject Biography says "a&e-work-group= Answer yes if the article is within the scope of the arts and entertainment work group, otherwise remove this line. If the article is about an actor or filmmaker, please use |filmbio-work-group=yes instead"; again, why? thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I read the the article where it said TV show and play. I then did a dumb thing and assumed TV/stage actor and not film actor. It should have filmbio and not a&e.  Will fix. Bgwhite (talk) 19:00, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 'Kay, thanks. There's also the needs-photo business. Permit me to suggest more haste, less speed? --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Photo request is not in the bio banner, but outside it. Bgwhite (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see; my mistake. Thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:46, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:GER
Please do not remove WP:Germany tags as you did [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASerge_Gnabry&diff=514761901&oldid=514728909 here. If you feel a person is inappropately flaged for a project please leve a message on the relevant project page. Agathoclea (talk) 05:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I added Germany to the football project which is standard procedure among footballers. Don't add tags that shouldn't be there.  Bgwhite (talk) 05:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I removed the German tag again. There is no need to have redundant tags. Bgwhite (talk) 05:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The tag is NOT redundant. Please aldo note that your removal of project tags in this manner is a controversial use of AWB. Agathoclea (talk) 19:25, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Agathoclea here. WikiProject Germany and WikiProject Football are two entirely different projects.  No project should have a monopoly on articles. Ryan Vesey 20:20, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * NEVER THREATEN ME Agathoclea!!! Stop your threats. Never good to threaten and try to discuss at the same time. Removing the tag was not the reason to visit your article.


 * If you take a look, adding Germany in the football banner also adds it into WikiProject Germany. Look on WP:WikiProject Germany.  On the right side under "Subprojects and task forces", you see Germany football. In the main section under "Related groups" is German football task force.   The ONLY way to add the article into those taskforces is to add Germany in WikiProject Football.  Adding Germany to the football banner tag also places the article into the right category inside Wikiproject Germany. See Category:WikiProject Germany and you will see the football taskforce.


 * What is a task force? per WP:TASKFORCE "A task force is, essentially, a non-independent subgroup of a larger WikiProject that covers some defined part of the WikiProject's scope." Later on... "A task force is generally set up on a subpage of the parent project page. In cases where the task force is a child of two projects (in other words, where its scope is the intersection of that of its two parents), the subpage can be arbitrarily placed under either of the projects, and a redirect can be created from the equivalent subpage in the other."  Hmmm, this is already been done by WikiProject Germany/Football task force and WikiProject Football/Germany task force pointing to the same spot.


 * WikiProject Germany does not offer a mechanism to allow a way to add the football taskforce. WikiProject Australia does.  If you take a look at Template:WikiProject Australia, you will see football, rugby, basketball and other sports.  If the WikiProject Australia banner is added with football task force set, there is no need to add the WikiProject Football banner because the Australian banner already did it.  I never set the appropriate sports banner if the Australia banner has it because it is redundant as it has already been set.


 * Placing Germany in the Football banner adds the article into the appropriate spot inside WikiProject Germany and WikiProject Football because the Germany football task force is a subproject of BOTH WikiProjects. Until Germany does it the way Australia and other WikiProject do it.  There is no need to have a redundant WP:WikiProject Germany when the football banner already places it inside WikiProject Germany. Bgwhite (talk) 00:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Bgwhite, I can see both sides of the argument here. I agree that the categories for Germany are still built regardless of which project is used (or both) but I also tend to agree that both projects are separate and should be allowed to have the banners. WikiProject US also has some redundancy with other projects like USFilm, US Military history and others but I wouldn't agree that one project over the other should be there. They both have the right to tag the page. There is a lot more to having the tag their than just the categories. There is a certain amount of advertisement for the project that is lost of the tag is removed as well. Kumioko (talk) 00:28, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Bgwhite is right on this one. WikiProject Germany reads "Any German football related article should be tagged on it discussion page as follows: ". -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:32, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know for other WikiProjects but at least for WikiProject Greece we don't want any page that mentions Greece in their body text but we try to be a little selective. So I am OK with how WikiProject Germany handles the situation. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is all nice and well to know how other projects handle footballers, but removing the banner means removing the article from the project's workflow. All other footballers (except maybe those that Bgwhite has removed in his misguided attempt to reduce thenumber of banners) are tagged for WP:Germany. Anyway my original point that if there is an issue it should be brought to WP:Germany and not for a member of WP:GREECE to decide as the arbitor. Also I recommend reading the guidelines on the subject. A project has the right to declare its scope. Agathoclea (talk) 05:00, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wrote what WP Germany wants for German footballers. I think I was clear. There is nothing to be raised to the projects's talk page since not having redundant banners is project's consensus. If something could be brought to their talk page is the contrary. To ask me add WP Germany to footballers too if you think they should. Here comes my opinion which says that if I was member of WP Germany I would not support this. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:28, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Lisa McGrillis
Although there were two refs, IMDB is never accepted as RS since it can be self-edited, and the other site appears to be similar to or derivative of IMDB. But your call, I won't revert, but I might take another look and see if it should be speedied for lack of notability.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Per WP:BLPPROD, you cannot add a BLPPROD tag if there are any references present... reliable or unreliable. This is a common misconception that I bring up to 3-4 editors a week, including admins.  Just over a week ago I was accused of all sorts of niceties that resulted in a discussion at the WP:BLPPROD talk page.  I personally don't agree with it.  There has been discussions on changing it many times before, but there are too many editors who believe the rules should stay as is. Bgwhite (talk) 23:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, crazy policy, but I'm not bothered enough to do anything more  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:09, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Job
Some information can be found here --Tito Dutta ✉ 01:23, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * But I don't see any with Oliver's 11-month vacation plan :). I'm not looking for one, but I have to give Oliver a hard time.  I think anything on that list will be easier than what you are studying for. Bgwhite (talk) 04:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Can't communicate to resolve issues.
Dear Bgwhite, I have a problem I do not know how to solve. Corporate associates have posted my bio, which is totally accurate (checked by me and office people), although you have flagged it as not so reliable. I can send you fax copies of anythign you need to know. For most of my career there was no Internet and most of my proof is in paper and such. How can I provide you with proof you think is needed? I have been asked for a decade or more to have a Wikipedia entry and have tried, in the past, but it is too complicated for me (although I knew Fortran in college and as on the sciencenet in 1985). Anyway, honestly I'd prefer not being on Wikipedia at all, except that everyone needs a page that others can add to and comment on I suppose. And a web site devoted to me is just to flesh-crawling, self-serving to undertake. Thanks, Peter — Preceding unsigned comment added by Priva (talk • contribs) 16:56, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I removed the email address above just in case web spiders will get it.
 * Well, you don't need a Wikipedia entry and no, everybody doesn't need one either. The primary purpose of Wikipedia is information, not advertising or a soap box, but some people do use it that way.
 * Who gets an article is based on notability. If a person is discussed in detail in independent, reliable sources, a person is deemed notable.  There is a problem with this in that a person may have been talked about in the past, but no record is currently present for it.  But, there has to be verifiable proof first.
 * The reason information from you is unreliable is that you could make up anything you want. For example, the newly minted CEO of Yahoo was fired for making things up on his resume.  Everything maybe truthful on your corporate bio, but it is not known for sure.  The company bio can be used to reference things dealing with the company, but cannot be used if it involves third parties.  See WP:SOURCES on what counts a reliable source.
 * You really shouldn't be editing your own article as you definitely have a conflict of interest.


 * From the references I've seen, I personally think your article should stay as there are enough reliable references. So, I don't see your article being in danger of being deleted.  I've removed what I thought were unreliable refs.  The article could use some more good refs though.  But in the end, I really wouldn't worry at this point.


 * I learned FORTRAN in the late 1980s. FORTRAN was and still is used in the meteorology community, but its use has greatly declined the past 12 years.  I still have paper printouts of some of programs I wrote in the 80s and 90s.  The Wikipedia people are working on a Visual Editor that will allow editing Wikipedia in a MS Word type setting.  That will make editing Wikipedia much easier for old farts like ourselves.  I am envious of you... some of the stories your grandmother would tell would be amazing to hear.  Though, my grandfather would tell some great ones. Bgwhite (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Gođevac
Nearly a month ago, you default sorted this disambiguation page despite that the article contained zero links and never indicated the significance of the people listed thus the article should have been tagged as G6 of the speedy criteria. However, I have now tagged the article. I should also note that the page has existed since February 2012, allowing the author more than enough time to start an article for the people listed. SwisterTwister  talk  22:33, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

reqphoto AWB script
I have updated User:Traveler100/imagereqproj which includes the module script. Initial tests look good, but should watch the updates for a while until all special cases have been identified. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Found one odd behaviour with Talk:St. Andrews Biological Station, need to investigate. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Font tag
I noticed you mentioned the "font" tag to someone with it in their signature. I asked around on #wikimedia-tech, and it seems like there is no plan for Wikipedia to serve valid HTML5, so users are free to keep using the "font" tag. Moreover the talk page archives and old revisions are full of no-longer-valid tags, so to emit valid HTML5 the system would have to rewrite those into something valid, as far as I can see. I tried several wiki pages and I could not find any that are valid HTML5, e.g.. I was curious about the hack you mentioned that is being used to support the font tag; I think the current "hack" is to just ignore it. It definitely appears in the HTML source of pages that are currently served. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 23:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is currently serving HTML5. It was turned on a couple of weeks ago.  See Wikipedia Signpost/2012-09-17/Technology report.  That is unless they turned it off, yet again.  They have a module in the Wikimedia code that is supposed to turn the various depreciated tags into valid tags.  At some point, the "font", "center", "tt" "s" and "u" tags will disappear because browsers won't support them.  As it takes a couple of minutes to convert a signature over, why not do it now?  A lazy programmer will only change things when it breaks and not plan ahead.  When the tags do disappear, the plan stated on the technical village pump page was to fix everything in article space and leave the talk pages broken.  Of course anything can change in the future. Bgwhite (talk) 23:31, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We are definitely serving pages with an HTML5 doctype right now, it is not turned off. I also thought this meant we would use something to fix invalid tags in the HTML5 we serve. So I went to ask about this. What I found out is that we don't have code to turn invalid tags like "font" and "tt" into valid tags; the only things that HTML tidy is fixing are omitted ending tags, closing tags out of order, and similar - not things like the use of the font tag or tt tag by users. The opinion represented on #wikimedia-tech was that there are currently no plans at all to try to make the output be valid HTML5 by rewriting or removing such tags. If you can find any plans that say we will, or a link to the VPT thread, I'd be interested, because I also thought we were going to fix the tags, but it seems not. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 23:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I found - it looks there like several people there were trying to explain that "font" will not break, and will always work fine, because browsers will support it. The things that will break mainly have to do with display issues, e.g. images may no long line up correctly. But the font tag will keep working fine; just because it is HTML5 does not mean any browser will stop supporting it. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 23:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, here was where "they" said font tags would be turned off.  I guess "they" changed their mind later on.
 * Here is the code that is currently converting some tags to proper HTML5.
 * As I said above, at some point the browsers will stop supporting them. The blink tag is dead in browsers... Hallelujah and I hope it spends the rest of eternity in hell from once it came. It is only a matter of time for the browsers to drop them.  Bgwhite (talk) 00:10, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, there is nothing we can or should do about stuff in history but we should cleanup what we have and going forward. IF something stops working at some point in the histories of articles then we can deal with that at that time but I agree we shouldn't continue to hold onto these deprecated bits of code for the sake of posterity. IF we are intent on using HTML5 then we should attempt to embrace that change and make the necessary changes rather than continue to white wash them. FONT is only one of several tags that don't work in HTML 5 BTW, there are several others we use actively in WP that we need to start getting away from. BTW, CBM for what its worth they keep rolling back HTML5 for a reason, because they cannot easily hack/hide some of these changes. Kumioko (talk) 00:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * They rolled it back a few times because it was affecting things like image alignment and XML validity. But HTML5 is turned on right now, probably for good; there is just no plan at all to make sure that the HTML that is emitted is valid HTML5. I also thought the plan was to fix the output to be valid HTML5, but when I asked about I found out I was wrong. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 00:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


 * FYI... font, big, p, b and i tags are part of CheckWiki. Bgwhite (talk) 01:22, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Anything can be on checkwiki, subject only to the whims of the maintainer. Also the "b" and "i" tags are now perfectly legal in HTML5, and the "small" tag is still perfectly legal. So there is really not much relation between HTML5 and checkwiki. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:41, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Egads, stop. I was only pointing out the tags are they and they can be fixed.  Don't read anything more into it.  You are taking this too personal.  Bgwhite (talk) 01:45, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

FYI
Hello, you PRODed the article Chunqai Jiang two weeks ago. It's now on AfD. --Ben Ben (talk) 14:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi
Hi there. good morning. I have just seen that you have added some tags at Abhy and rani Bang article. I am able to get what it is. Will you please explain as what is about? Thanks. Dr. Abhijeet Safai (talk) 08:22, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * All I did was reword a banner and pull out the infobox request from the banner to the talk page. The old banner name is going away.  Essentially, nothing changed.  Everything is the same as before. Bgwhite (talk) 08:44, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Keshav Dattatreya Nayak
Keshav Dattatreya Nayak is not a businessman, he is a scientist working for DRDO. Will you please change the error you made here. Thanks --Neelkamala (talk) 08:47, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Um, you change it to whatever you want to. Nobody's edits are set in stone. Bgwhite (talk) 08:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok Thanks, i thought of informing you before changing to prevent any misunderstandings :-) --Neelkamala (talk) 08:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I always misunderstand... atleast when it comes to the wife. If you see a glaring error like Nayak's, go ahead and change, but leave a good edit summary on why.  99% of the time, that will be fine.  Bgwhite (talk) 09:01, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Re: Vector.css
Ya, recent changes are very good. All display related. So, new look! :) --Tito Dutta ✉ 21:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Removing banners on talk pages
Hi Bgwhite, I noticed you removed some talk page banners from a draft article in my userspace. I'm not saying you were wrong to do so, but I'd appreciate it in the future if you notified me of such actions. It might also be better to use  markup to merely suppress the banners attached to a draft. I suspect other editors may feel the same. Thanks, BDD (talk) 00:02, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You better start using  as banners are not allowed in userspace. Bgwhite (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Peer review
Hello BGwhite, your opinion is needed here.Please help.Thank You. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣ 17:20, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikify
No need to be so brash about it. I was only posting polite messages to people to let them know about the deprecation. I hardly call that yelling. WP:AGF next time, maybe? Cheers  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  20:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Why don't you assume good faith and stop bugging the same people about it. You have been told before it will be in the next version.  Yet you continue to post messages about this to AWB's talk page and tell people multiple times to stop using it.  Bgwhite (talk) 20:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact that AWB hasn't been updated yet isn't an excuse for people to add it when they know it has been deprecated. Informing editors so they know to skip those edits, or not to add the tag is important. Ryan Vesey 20:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it is important to tell editors to a point. But telling multiple times the same editors and to AWB's talk page about it doesn't help.  My advice to AWB editors has always been to turn off auto-tagging. Bgwhite (talk) 20:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

AWB edit
You edited the Cabinet of Halldór Ásgrímsson article using AWB and it messed up the categories. I hope it was just a one time thing. Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson (talk) 18:37, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That was a manual edit and not AWB. Sorry for leaving out the |.   I was conforming the article's sort values to WP:SUR.
 * btw... I've been coming behind you fixing the sort values (per WP:SUR) in the articles you have been creating the past few days. Sort value's do not contain any diacritics or special characters per WP:MCSTJR. Bgwhite (talk) 18:47, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think your edit summary said "...using AWB". I was just copying and pasting the title, thus the diacritics. I'll do the sort values properly from now on. Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson (talk) 18:53, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * AWB does alot of changes by itself, so people think it was AWB's fault on a bad edit. I do make alot of manual edits while using AWB and in this case it was my fault.  I didn't want you to blame AWB.
 * No problem on the diacritics. There are only 2,408,385 Wikipedia rules.  My wife points out every little thing I do wrong, which amounts to hundreds of wrongs a day.  So, unless you are like my wife, there is no way to know every rule around here. Bgwhite (talk) 19:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been 4 years since I used AWB so I didn't remember that it appends the edit summary like that. Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson (talk) 19:23, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Living?
Your bot has converted this person Hugh Wheeler (East India Company officer) (and possibly others? I haven't checked) from living=no to living=yes. I just wondered what the bot is picking up on in order to decide they should be living. His dates are pretty clear 1789-1857. Southdevonian (talk) 07:57, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching it. It did a few others and I'll correct them.  It was user error on my part and not the bot. Bgwhite (talk) 08:06, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Design42Day
Hi Bgwhite,

I purposely took out all the Wiki section labels, which you restored, so the article was not cluttered with edit links. --  :- ) Don 04:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The labels, as you had them, show up on some tracking lists as an error as the labels are not supposed to be used. Instead, do  2011 , which does  2011 . Bgwhite (talk) 04:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I better find and edits some Wiki markup pages, if they have not already been fixed.  That is where I read to do the  work around.  --  :- ) Don  07:23, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I probably got to those too. I'm very good at making life miserable for people. :) Bgwhite (talk) 07:24, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what tracking lists to which you may be referring, but can I assume that a determination had been made to do away with the and not fix the problem at the tracking lists?  --  :- ) Don  19:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It comes from WP:CHECKWIKI. Specifically, error id #49 states, "Found a headline with HTML markup, e.g. Headline in the text. Please use wikisyntax == Headline == ."   Currently, a total of 24 articles out of 4 million have this problem. 23 of the articles have bigger problems and it takes 20 minutes to fix.  I'm getting to those slowly.  Bgwhite (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I will just chalk it up as another Wiki-schizoid break. This says it's fine.  Apparently somewhere, someone decided it is not.   seem to work quite well everywhere I've seen.  Using   breaks the TOC.  -- <span style="color:rgb(60,200,200);font-weight:bold;"> :- ) Don  01:11, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi again. I checked out the Project and the code. I understand the reason (its for the bots) and is appears that only is affected.  I will update documentation where I know it exists.  We can live without . As long as exists we can keep some lists uncluttered. Keep up the good work.  Consistency is good, as long as we know the rules.  -- <span style="color:rgb(60,200,200);font-weight:bold;"> :- ) Don  04:52, 11 October 2012 (UTC)