User talk:Bgwhite/Archive 21

my edit on the article called Sex toy industry in China
Hello i wanted to announce that the article has a suspicious link that is marked by wot web of trust here is a link for evidence

https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/app1.chinadaily.com.cn please see this link and the site url for the edit i made is app1chinadaily com cn i left out the DOT's in the url because the url is suspicious that is why i removed the url from the article Superusergeneric (talk) 04:46, 7 December 2013 (UTC)


 * , thanks for asking the question. WOT ratings are not really relevant on Wikipedia.  Ratings are based upon how users perceive a site.  A site can have a low WOT rating, but be a reliable site.
 * On Wikipedia, the reference does meet the criteria per WP:NEWSORG.  The references comes from the Shanghai Star and appears on the website of the Star's parent company, China Daily.  China Daily is a well-established English-based newspaper with 500,000 readers and papers all over Asia and one published in New York City. The article doesn't have anything that could be biased, such as politics.  Shanghai Star and China Daily are owned by the Chinese Government, which probably relates to the low rating.  Finally, the Shanghai Star ceased publishing in 2006.  WOT wasn't started until 2006. Bgwhite (talk) 06:29, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

i have two questions for wikipedia
i have two questions to ask to you

question one: is why doesn't wikipedia have any anti-virus link scanners?
 * I'm assuming you mean a virus scan on the url links. I truly don't know.

question two: some of the articles on wikipedia may have outdated information?
 * There is outdated and wrong information everywhere. That doesn't count the vandalism. The problem is there are 4.3 million pages and only 20,000-30,000 active users.  The are ~5,000 really active users.  There is so much to do and not enough people. Bgwhite (talk) 08:27, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

hello (talk) 06:47, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

New events regarding Kitt twins page
Hi Bgwhite,

I completely understand why you don't see any significant problems with the references section style, but the article was created with a different and more common (and equally valid) style, which has been used by several contributors all this time. I fear that the current format will lead to potential error messages when average contributors decide to make edits in the future because it's very likely that the typical contributor will add something and include the reference (URL and everything) at the end of the added content (after a period, for example), which I think would cause error messages to show up, as I said. Besides, Lesser Cartographies unilaterally changed the references section style without asking anyone first, which I think is a violation of a Wikipedia policy, unless I'm misunderstanding this:

"Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, to make it match other articles, or without first seeking consensus for the change. If the article you are editing is already using a particular citation style, you should follow it; if you believe it is inappropriate for the needs of the article, seek consensus for a change on the talk page."

My sandbox would be very helpful to restore the style back to how it was before Lesser changed it. The only problem is that what I did seems to create only one column of references, instead of two, but that should be easy for you or Lesser to fix.

Secondly, didn't you tell Duff and me to write our suggestions on our talk pages, or on Lesser's talk page, or on yours? That's the way I remember the agreement, and that's exactly what I did; however, last night I discovered that Duff and Lesser were discussing modifications to the article via email, and changes were actually made that way. I am highly disappointed in Lesser because during the discussion process, I kept on checking Duff's page for suggestions, and I checked Lesser's page as well, and yours, to see if Duff was making proposals, but I saw nothing from Duff because he was interacting with Lesser secretly, which Lesser obviously encouraged, even though I do believe your instructions regarding suggestions were clear (public, and on our talk pages). Therefore, during the process, I was never able to make a case against flawed arguments. This was supposed to be an open and transparent procedure. There IS a thread which showed up eventually on Lesser's page after private emails were sent back and forth, where he discusses issues with Duff, but Lesser never informed me of Duff's reasons for making any changes, some of which were flawed.

Finally, please take a look at an edit that Duff made on the page which basically created this bizarre situation that I find myself in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Camille_and_Kennerly_Kitt&diff=573610277&oldid=573608297

So he wrote: "Wikipedia is not a directory of download links."

Well, if Duff's intentions on Wikipedia are noble, and specifically to enforce what he believes are the rules, then I have a list of articles about songs by Lady Gaga and Katy Perry (just to mention two musicians), where I would like you to invite Duff to wipe out the links to iTunes and Amazon, and write in the edit summary "Wikipedia is not a directory of download links." If Duff refuses to do so, and to go to war with those contributors (some of which have vast experience), then I would request from you permission to continue contributing to the Camille and Kennerly Kitt page, while asking you to keep Duff away from it, since at that point there would be proof that he has something personal either against Camille and Kennerly Kitt, or against me. Doesn't that sound fair enough? Thanks for reading this long message. Dontreader (talk) 21:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)


 * 1), the reference style used in the article is the most common one on Wikipedia and the preferred method. There is nothing wrong. Note:  reference style is dealing with the {{cite web |url ... not where the refs are located.
 * 2) Where the refs are located, inline or in the refs sections, is a different story.  I personally don't like the way it is, but it is a common format on Wikipedia.  There really is no need to change.  It does not affect the layout of the article in any way, thus is a "trivial" edit.
 * 3) Duffs change of "Wikipedia is not a directory of download links." was done before any agreements were made... way back in September. He is also correct. It is a list of download links.  Remember when I said iTunes could be used as a link, but only if it is referencing something?  If iTunes link were referencing a release date, it would be ok.  In Duffs deletion, none of the links were directly referencing anything.  Articles are not supposed to be used for selling records.
 * 4) I don't know if Lesser and Duffs were emailing. You saw all changes Lesser was going to make and you signed off on them.  You should have had Lesser's talk page on your watchlist as you were constant contributor there.   You and Lesser were talking there and so was Lesser and Duff.  This is the same reason Lesser never informed Duff of any of your items.  If Lesser did email Duff, the only evidence I see is Lesser sent him questions, which were posted on his talk page with Duff replying to them.


 * Thanks Bgwhite for explaining the situation with the references section. I do know that this format does not affect the layout of the article but in my opinion this format is likely to cause error messages when other contributors edit the article in the future, as I said earlier, but if you are not worried about that, then I won't worry either. I just see that some of the sources lack the titles of the articles, the authors, etc, and I think that should be addressed, and my sandbox would help in that sense, although I could make it better if you'd like me to.


 * This week the Kitt twins are going to release their first two physical CDs on CDBaby.com, specifically here:


 * http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/CamilleandKennerly


 * Therefore, I hope you will agree to use two CDBaby links to support the claims made in the track listings.


 * Lesser and Duff exchanged several emails. You can also see that by the activity on the talk page of the Kitt article. Lesser thanks Duff for pointing things out to him, even though these observations are not mentioned on Duff's talk page or on Lesser's talk page. So, the process was not transparent, and if I had put Lesser's talk page on my watchlist, it would have indeed helped, but it would not have been enough. I should have had the chance (and time) to counter arguments in "real time" but instead drastic changes were made very quickly. I had no time to do proper research on Wikipedia rules. I was forced to accept major changes or else I would have looked unwilling to compromise. I certainly am willing to compromise, and some material had to go, but Lesser went too far, using Feature Article standards, which was excessive. Besides, I thought that all the topics would show up on the article's talk page for discussion (wasn't that the plan?), so I had it on my watchlist, but some material was deleted that was not discussed there.


 * The article reads, "Camille and Kennerly comprise an internationally performing rock Harp Duo 'The Harp Twins'."


 * Yet every performance was taken out. All I'm asking for is to keep this part since there are decent sources:


 * "They performed at the Abraham Lincoln Bicentennial at a dinner for US President Barack Obama and at events for former Vice President Dick Cheney, former First Lady Laura Bush, and former Speaker of the US House Dennis Hastert. The Harp Twins performed on both days of the Cusp Conference 2011 at the Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago. In March 2012, Camille and Kennerly played their harps at a private party in San Francisco honoring French haute couture fashion designer Jean Paul Gaultier and to celebrate the opening of his exhibit "The Fashion World of Jean Paul Gaultier: From the Sidewalk to the Catwalk" at the De Young Museum."


 * That never should have been taken out.


 * And this was taken out with absolutely no explanation anywhere:


 * "The June 2013 issue of Metal Hammer featured an interview article about the Harp Twins, titled 'Harp Attack!', and labeled them a 'Hot New Band'"


 * However, if you can simply reinsert the performances that I pasted above, I won't complain about anything else that was taken out. I can give you the best sources available.


 * Thanks again for your help. Dontreader (talk) 02:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The ref format is not a big issue. It doesn't matter what is in an article, people still put references in any 'ol format.  There are now red problem notices in the reference section saying something is wrong and people still ignore those.   Slightly off tangent... if someone edits an article and it has unbalanced brackets (ie [],, and {}), you get a talk message that shows a person how to fix it.  Those messages go ignored.


 * When the CDs are officially released, then add them. I didn't see it on CDBaby.com, but I think you mentioned it so I could go, "sighhhhh" when I saw Camille.


 * When I write up articles, I try to do it to Featured Article status. Sorry, but I think all articles should be done this way.  In my opinion, the performances shouldn't be mentioned.  In this case it is name dropping.  None of them are "special" and they are one of a couple hundred performers to play for Obama.  The museums and the fashion designer are really not important.  It is important to the Kitts, but not in the grand scheme of things. An example would be the Grammy's.  You don't (atleast shouldn't) see musician articles saying they performed at the Grammy's, unless you stick out your tongue while masturbating to a foam finger.


 * "Metal Hammer featured an interview article..." could you get me the reference on that. Bgwhite (talk) 07:33, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for putting up with me, Bgwhite. All right, I'll have to learn to live with all that stuff having been taken out of the Kitt page, and I'll treat it like a Featured Article in terms of the standards. Who cares if there is one more alcoholic in the world? One more tormented soul? Another man who has lost hope and faith in humanity? It happens every day. Anyway, I must sadly admit that my beloved Kennerly was totally eclipsed by Camille on the cover of their new CD Harp Attack:


 * http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/camilleandkennerly37


 * Both CDs were officially released yesterday. You know, most of the "Single Releases" (which are listed in the article) are in the track listings of the brand new albums, so wouldn't it be best to eliminate the Singles Releases section and show the track listings of the two albums instead? I'd be glad to work on that but it might take me a few days (I'm sober less than an hour a day now, and I have no experience with making Wikipedia charts). Please let me know.


 * The source I had for the Metal Hammer feature was the magazine itself, which I bought, so I included the issue number, page, and the other info necessary for magazine or book sources (or journals - can't remember, but I did it carefully back then). Here's how the magazine feature looks:


 * https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151893899709129&set=a.10151945286599129.1073741829.264726799128&type=3&theater


 * You can see the red ribbon that reads "Hot New Band" (actually, I'm sure that's the first thing you noticed). If you don't think it's worth including in the article, I'll survive, maybe. Thanks again Bgwhite. Dontreader (talk) 15:20, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I made a table that "collapses" (I hope that's the correct term) in my sandbox here for the album Harp Fantasy. I think it looks good but please take a look whenever you have a moment. I hope to have the other album's table ready in two days if not sooner. Thanks! Dontreader (talk) 20:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll get to it in a few days. With Thanksgiving weekend and my off from work, I "have to" obey the wife's wishes.  I've got to do my regular chores on Wikipedia first or get behind.  Where is Camille when I need her :)  Bgwhite (talk) 06:28, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Camille would be an excellent WikiGnome, but never as good as Kennerly. I have finished the work in my sandbox (both albums), so again here is the link. Hopefully you'll be able to add that content to the article since I don't want to touch it. Happy Thanksgiving weekend! Dontreader (talk) 00:06, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi again, Bgwhite. I gave you the wrong link. I know, I'm an idiot: User:Dontreader/sandbox. Regards, Dontreader (talk) 23:16, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much, Bgwhite! And I see that you put the sources right inside the article, yet the world did not come to an end! You really deserve the Harp Twins' brand new poster! It would make your mother-in-law love you even more! Thanks again! Dontreader (talk) 00:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It's called being too lazy to change the refs. You mean a poster of Camille.  Bgwhite (talk) 06:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Is it too late to vote for McCain? GoingBatty (talk) 06:31, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * {{U|GoingBatty}}, oi, they have my vote and I need to watch that movie. I'm waiting for that scoundrel  to give me my signed poster.  Um, Dont, I'll take a poster of them in that wonderful movie. I guess they are called "The Christmas Twins".  I can look at the poster to give me strength to deal with the wife and in-laws this month.
 * Batty, I've been reverting your edits today. They were made with Visual Editor and  I've yet to see a good edit made with that thing. Bgwhite (talk) 06:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * GoingBatty and Bgwhite: my fellow prisoners... sorry, I mean, my friends, I don't know if it's too late to vote for McCain, but the only way to solve America's problems is to amend the Constitution so that we can have a dual Harp Twins Presidency. Thank you GoingBatty for what must be your finest contribution to Wikipedia by far. I am sure that Camille and Kennerly would gladly send Bgwhite an autographed poster of that picture if he reinserts their performances in the article. Oh, and you simply cannot get a poster of only Camille because they are inseparable. Dontreader (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * {{ping|Bgwhite}} - I haven't been notified of your reversions of my edits. What issues are you seeing?  If you want to get that poster, I'd be happy to take the Kennerly side off your hands.  :-)
 * {{ping|Dontreader}} - Glad I'm finally making a difference to Wikipedia! :-)  GoingBatty (talk) 18:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * {{ping|Bgwhite}} - It looks like my last few VE edits were fine:, , , , and . GoingBatty (talk) 19:23, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * {U|GoingBatty}} Sorry, I was joking. I should have put a smiley face.  I erased a sentence about you having to resort to VE because of your lack of AWB crack. Bgwhite (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 8 December
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:20, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * On the Nepalese Non-Government Organizations in Hong Kong page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=585199847 your edit] caused a cite error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20Nepalese Non-Government Organizations in Hong Kong Ask for help])
 * - just wanted to see how ReferenceBot works. GoingBatty (talk) 00:38, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Tech News: 2013-49
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

This newsletter is now posted using MediaWiki message delivery.

New features
 * The CommonsMetadata feature was added to all wikis. It creates metadata information about multimedia files (like their license) that can be read automatically by computer programs. It not only works for Commons, but for all wikis, and you can use it for files on your wiki by editing templates used to describe metadata.
 * JavaScript code used on Wikimedia sites is now saved locally on your computer to load faster.

VisualEditor
 * You can now paste formatted content copied from external sources (not just as plain text) into VisualEditor; this includes copy/pasting from other VisualEditor windows.
 * You can now open VisualEditor by adding  to the page URL, regardless of your user preferences.
 * Many bugs have been fixed, and VisualEditor should also look faster, for example when you save a page.

Problems
 * Due to issues, the new search tool ("CirrusSearch") was recently removed from wikis where it was enabled, then added again.

Future
 * MediaWiki 1.23wmf6 was added to test wikis on December 5. It will arrive to non-Wikipedia wikis on December 10 and all Wikipedia wikis on December 12 (calendar).
 * The old Etherpad tool (replaced by a new version) will be removed on December 30, 2013. You can still save old pads before that date using the old address: https://etherpad-old.wikimedia.org.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 08:38, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey
As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasit &#124; c 15:03, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Clean-up of EMC Page
Hi there!

Thanks for your input on cleaning the page up. I just have a question regarding chemical notation in equation form....

You have changed this:


 * in combination with silica, to form strätlingite (Ca 2 Al 2 SiO 7 ·8H 2 O or C 2 ASH 8 in cement chemist notation, hardness 7.0 to 7.5 on Mohs scale), which geologically can form as xenoliths in basalt as metamorphosed limestone.


 * (i.e. in key regards: Ca 2 Al 2 SiO 7 ·8H 2 O or C 2 ASH 8 )

To this:


 * in combination with silica, to form strätlingite (Ca2Al2SiO7·8H2O or C2ASH8 in cement chemist notation, hardness 7.0 to 7.5 on Mohs scale), which geologically can form as xenoliths in basalt as metamorphosed limestone


 * (i.e. in key regards: Ca2Al2SiO7·8H2O or C2ASH8 )

Question: is removal of the tags obligatory? Because I prefer the smaller numbers when it is normal para text (for ease of reading).

Could you let me know and maybe post your considered view on my talk page?

Thanks a lot and kind regards! 213.66.81.80 (talk) 14:29, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * , thank you for asking the question instead of reverting like so many others do. The reason is exactly the same reason you gave, for ease of reading.  Text shouldn't go smaller than what  produces, which is ~83% of normal.  This is done for those of us that have trouble reading small print.   and  tags already reduce the text size to 83% of normal.  Adding the  tag then reduces it further.  Bgwhite (talk) 20:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * interesting- I had no idea undefined and undefined produced such a drastic reduction. Thank you for that. Regards 213.66.81.80 (talk) 07:47, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Sant Longowal Institute of Engineering and Technology
Thank you for your edit there. Unfortunately, the single purpose account Ravipsingh persists in removing all tags and re-copypasting material that is almost certainly a copyright violation. Edward321 (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I see where the SPA has been warned twice and has been reverted atleast 8 times.  If the SPA reverts again, please tell me and I will block the account. Bgwhite (talk) 00:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I see where they edited the page, but didn't add the copyrighted stuff. Ahhh, the long lists of doom.  Bgwhite (talk) 08:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * What about the copy of copyright violation stuff they keep in their sandbox? Edward321 (talk) 00:24, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I noticed that too. It needs to be deleted, but I'll wait a bit.  I hate kicking a person when they are down. Bgwhite (talk) 00:34, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I wasn't suggesting they be blocked for it, but that it should be removed due to the issues with it. That said, I do not feel I should go editing someone else's sandbox, but do not know the proper method of dealing with it. Edward321 (talk) 00:58, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I wasn't mentioning blocking either, just deleting the page. There is so much on the sandbox page that has been copied, just editing the page won't do.  The page can be speedily deleted like any other page for copyright reasons.  If you have WP:Twinkle, you can use that to place a speedy notification.   Before putting a speedy on the page, they need to be notified first, so they can either remove it or know it is coming. Bgwhite (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll give them some time to remove the copyvio themselves first. As you say, hate to kick someone when they're down. Edward321 (talk) 01:12, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

&amp;nbsp; followed by an equal sign
be careful not to remove the ; from the nbsp as you did [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Generalized_eigenvector&diff=584910457&oldid=581454091 here]. thank you. Frietjes (talk) 17:27, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , the sad part is I go around and fix missing ; in HTML entities. sigh.....   Bgwhite (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Help with Special:Log settings
I was hoping maybe you can help me with something else.. When I view the logs of all my actions, at Special:Log/OlEnglish, there are options to also Show/Hide the Thanks log, Review log, and Patrol logs. I wish it to always show the Thanks log but every time I go back to it it resets to hiding it. Is there a way to set it as the default to always Show the Thanks log whenever I go to view Special:Log/OlEnglish? -- &oelig; &trade; 10:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I'm not aware of anything. There would need to be some sort of javascript to do it.  I don't see one at User scripts or in Equazcion's user space.  You can set up a link to do it.  I add a couple of links to the very top of the window... In the "OlEnglish  Talk  Preferences" line.
 * In my User:Bgwhite/vector.js file, search for "Add My Dashboard and Sandbox to the Personal toolbar".  Just replace the URL with the one you want to use. Bgwhite (talk) 18:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, this was serendipitous! For years, I've had the occasional but annoying inconvenience of attempting to click something on the top just as the Javascript clock appears and shifts things, and I end up accidentally clicking on "log out". I finally decided to do something about it. I started looking around yesterday for a solution, and then I came across your note. I checked out your js page and was delighted to discover the ID of the logout element, enabling me to hide the log out link via css. Yay! No more accidentally logging out. Thanks! M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  11:38, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Move
Will you please move this The Kitchen Sink page to the title Kitchen Sink (film) ? It's the official title now. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 15:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , done. Make sure update the wikilinks to the new spot.  here are the pages needing updating.  btw... it is nice seeing messages from you again. Bgwhite (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah but wrong move :), actually the title should be Kitchen Sink (film) not The Kitchen Sink (film). Title is without "The" so please move it again to "The-less" title, :). Thanks. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 02:55, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks B. :) -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 17:42, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi
Could you take a look at my Rebecca Simonsson article. Any improvements are welcomed. :)--BabbaQ (talk) 23:02, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Maharana Pratap
I see that you are among the recent admin reverters at Maharana Pratap. Do you think we're at the stage where long-term semi or pending changes should be introduced for the article? Given the volume, would PC even be an option? - Sitush (talk) 14:35, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , I put a 3-month protection on the article. I the problem continues after 3 months, then will make it longer. Bgwhite (talk) 21:34, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think that I need to make an effort to research the thing in order to nail down some of the repetitive issues but most of it is basically just (as your rationale stated) vandalism of one sort or another. - Sitush (talk) 01:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy holidays!
May all of your holiday wishes come true, and all the best in the new year! GoingBatty (talk) 03:44, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Batty. I got a good laugh when the video popped up, then I settled in and went ahhhhhhh.  Just wished I opened it when my wife wasn't next to me.  The bruises will take awhile to heal.  Sigh, wonderful Camille.  05:49, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry - next time I'll label it as NSFW (Not Safe For Wife) :-)  GoingBatty (talk)!  —Preceding undated comment added 06:39, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Tech News: 2013-50
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

New features
 * You can now see a legend on Special:RecentChanges and Special:Watchlist that explains the symbols used.
 * If your wiki is testing the new search tool ("CirrusSearch"), you can now test it by adding "New search" in your Beta features preferences.

VisualEditor
 * The toolbar is now simpler; all text styles (bold, italics, underline, subscript, etc.) are in the same menu, and the "More" menu is called "Insert".
 * You can now use a basic tool to add special characters to your text. You can add more characters (useful in your language) by editing the MediaWiki interface on translatewiki.net.
 * The tool to add and edit mathematical text is now called "formula".

Problems
 * There was a problem with the "" tool (Collection); books could only be exported to PDF format. The change has been undone.
 * The log-in system for external tools ("OAuth") was broken on wikis that tested the new search tool. It was fixed last week.
 * Because of a bug, this newsletter is delivered to users using the new MediaWiki message delivery, and to community pages using the old EdwardsBot.

Future
 * MediaWiki 1.23wmf7 was added to test wikis on December 12. It will be added to non-Wikipedia wikis on December 17 and all Wikipedia wikis on December 19 (calendar).
 * You will soon be able to select the language of SVG images that have translations using a drop-down menu on the image page. (see example)
 * GLAMToolset, a tool to help GLAM groups (like museums) upload many pictures to Commons, will be added to Commons on December 17.
 * A Draft namespace will be added to the English Wikipedia to make it easier to create new pages. You will be able to use VisualEditor for drafts if you have enabled it.

Other
 * You can read the summary of the technical report for November 2013 to learn more about VisualEditor, Mobile and other features.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 08:24, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

BG19bot behavior
I have reverted two portions of this edit to Council of Governors because I feel they were not warranted. My reversion edits, both having to do with reference placement:. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 00:40, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , that is unusual. Bot reorders references to be in numerical order, which it obviously didn't do.  Will report that at WP:AWB as a bug.  Also, you reverted the reason why the bot visited the page... what is listed in the edit summary.  The bot will visit the page again unless it is fixed.  Bgwhite (talk) 00:47, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, "fixed" is a relative term here. I don't agree that the reason the bot visited the page was valid in the first place. There's an inline citation for the first quote, so there should be a matching inline citation for the second quote. Moving the second citation to outside the punctuation is Wrong™, in my opinion. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 00:54, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Per WP:REFPUNCT, references go after punctuation. The second quote must be ended by a period as it is the end of the sentence, thus the ref goes after the period.  This has nothing to do with what came be before.  References do come after just words and not punctuation.  By your logic, the sentence shouldn't end in a period because the first quote didn't end in a period.  But, this is why I went into math...  2+2=4.  Where to put a punctuation mark has infinite possibilities depending on who one talks to or which style guide one reads.  FYI... here is the bug report that I filed.  Bgwhite (talk) 01:18, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Bug has been fixed. Bgwhite (talk) 08:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how you extended my logic the way that you did, and I don't appreciate the jab about math. The way the sentence in question is phrased, it contains two quotes, each from a different source. The goal here is to attribute the quotes to their sources as closely as possible. The period that ends the sentence is not part of the quoted portion, so it should not (in my opinion) come between the quote and its citation. There are exceptions to WP:REFPUNCT, and I believe this should be one of them. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 15:34, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you meant about "jab about math". I meant no jab, just showing my analogy that math has only one right answer and editing has multiple answers. As this is a question of editing, there can be multiple correct answers. Bgwhite (talk) 17:59, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, hmm. It seems I interpreted that differently; I associated it with the sentence that came before it rather than the sentence that came after it. Me being defensive + me not continuing to assume good faith = My apologies. I guess I should take up my editing issue on the MOS page. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 19:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Vellalar
existing sourced contents have been removed without discussion, that's i reverted.Rajkris (talk) 22:43, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

one cannot remove existing sourced contents and add other sourced contents without discussion.Rajkris (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * But you also deleted alot more sourced content without discussion.  So, you can delete sourced content but other people can't.  You can't have it both ways.  Either restore only the deleted source content or talk.  Don't just do a blanket revert, just like you did again.   Yes, people can remove sourced content without discussion, but if someone objects, they raise the issue and discuss why it should be reverted.  You reverted and you didn't discuss.    Bgwhite (talk) 22:53, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * These sources are well documented, so no reason to delete without discussion. He has also removed sourced contents. Removing existing sourced contents for any reason and ask for discussion is something very easy. From what I know, if someone wants to remove an existing sourced content, he must first raise the issue in talk page.Rajkris (talk) 23:00, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to listen to yourself. Mayasutra could easily say, "These sources are well documented, so there is no reason to discuss."
 * You are not 100% right nor is Mayasutra.  You both discuss and do not assume you are totally right and everybody else is wrong.  You cannot say for other people to discuss, but then say you have no need to discuss.  This is called a hypocrite.  I only see two refs Mayasutra removed.  I see a minimum of 10 you removed.  You just removed sourced content but you didn't discuss.  You have two choices.  Talk or only restore the removed sourced content.  Bgwhite (talk) 23:06, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, fine.Rajkris (talk) 23:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have added some refs, but there are some issues. Can you please check & correct ?Rajkris (talk) 00:37, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello Bgwhite, May I know on what basis you reinstated the intro portion "ancient Tamil order (Chera/Chola/Pandya/Sangam era)" when neither of the quoted sources mention so? You also quoted Hockings for the portion "had close relations with the different royal dynasties. Literary, archeological sources trace the origin of the Vellalars to a group of royal house chieftains called Vel or Velir". Please see Velir talk page where have reproduced content by Hockings. You have also reinstated content such as "According to old Hindu, Tamil texts, the Velirs were warriors from the Yadu Kshatriya clan"; whereas only Naccinarkkiniyar describes the event in his commentary on Tolkappiyam (Payiram; Porul.34). Mahadevan does not say the Yadu are Kshatriya, So you will need to use an other reference for it. I suggest you handle this article together with Sitush as am traveling soon and will be unavailable until next month. Thanks.--Mayasutra &#91;&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61;&#93; (talk) 05:35, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra


 * I left a message on Sitush's talk page. Bgwhite (talk) 05:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I do not understand the rationale of your reverts. Especially the most recent one at Vellalar where I added content and you deleted it! Well, anyways...left a message for you on Sitush's page--Mayasutra &#91;&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61;&#93; (talk) 05:59, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra
 * , I haven't a clue if what you or Rajkris says is correct. I know nothing about ancient Tamil groups or kingdoms.  I'm trying to take a neutral stance... what goes for one person goes for both of you.  From above, Rajkris was removing sourced material that you had added.  I restored the material.  You removed sourced material, so I revert your edits.  Bgwhite (talk) 06:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand Bgwhite. No problem. From a third person's point of view, that's how it wud seem. If I were you, I'd do the same. --Mayasutra &#91;&#61; No &#124;&#124;&#124; Illusion &#61;&#93; (talk) 08:06, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

tb
I actually completely disagree with your analysis of the factual data that I added to the Edgar Smith page. In fact you own verbiage seems slightly contentious to use your word and a bit arrogant in your "explanation" of why you removed my text; in fact everything I wrote is based on sourceable material; your logic eludes me. Please come up with something better, if you can, or I will undo your change. Vancewilson (talk) 22:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The Water Diviner
Hello B, I just added some stuff in The Water Diviner, it was a redirect before and the filming has begun early this month so I thought I should put some stuff and let you comment on it and then I'll go on after asking you. So...what do you think of it? -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 19:13, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I made some minor changes, but otherwise it looks good. Bgwhite (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll start new article only if you say YES. You know I was only disrupting redirects, I'll be away from them and moving articles. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 02:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd wait until three months have gone by. Best not to have the appearance of any possible wrong doing.   You can write up a new article in your sandbox, then I can move it over. When you create the article, make in in a brand new sandbox page... sandbox1 or sandbox2.   The edit history will have your name in it.  The move log will show I moved it, so there is a record of somebody else approving the article.  If anyone has complaint, it would be on me for approving it. Bgwhite (talk) 06:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm good idea, I'll not create articles directly to mainspace, I'll ask you to move when I create one at my userspace. But what if I create one and someone come in and copy all my data and create by his own one? Just asking for information. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 17:20, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The risk of having somebody copy your work is mighty slim. Even if they did, it would be a violation because they didn't give you credit. Wikipedia's copyright says anybody can copy any page, as long as credit is given. Bgwhite (talk) 18:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * OK thanks, take a look at User:Captain Assassin!/sandbox1. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 18:40, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't like the deadline.com reference. It is to gossipy.  I'd drop it if you can.  If you can't find another source for, "On September 4, 2013 director...", then use the source.  I would definitely remove "...tweeted a casting call for a teen football player..." sentence.  It is minor compared to a big name actor joining the cast. Bgwhite (talk) 18:51, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely I have an alternate source but the Deadline.com is an athentic news site for media like Variety. I think it's the best site for media news, usually other websites get their sources from it. But I'll change it if you say so...and the other thing "...tweeted a casting call for a teen football player...", I think it is good for now. I've seen news like this written in the film's casting and development sections. What do you say? -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  ( T  -  C  -  G  ) 19:03, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely get rid of "...tweeted a casting call for a teen football player...".
 * If you think Deadline is good, then keep it for the sentence, but change it as a ref for the actors.
 * I'll be gone for a couple of hours. I'll move it over when I get back. Bgwhite (talk) 19:11, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, article will be fully ripen when you come back, move it then, thanks. --<b style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"> Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  </b>( T  -  C  -  G  ) 19:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I've completed the article here without categories (will be added in namespace). You can move it into the title Men, Women & Children (film). That's it. --<b style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"> Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  </b>( T  -  C  -  G  ) 20:08, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm back again :) Check this out and move it to The Cobbler (2014 film) if it looks good. --<b style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"> Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  </b>( T  -  C  -  G  ) 17:25, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Now this User:Captain Assassin!/sandbox2 to John Wick (film). --<b style="text-shadow:#666666 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"> Assassin! No, Captain Assassin!  </b>( T  -  C  -  G  ) 03:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

José Diego Álvarez
Hi there BG, AL from Portugal here,

thought we had already reached an understanding that footballers have a specific way of being approached regarding their defaultsort, i see we have not. I will leave this article at peace regarding the def'ort, but have reinstated my other changes which you have reverted (we don't insert "?" in boxes, i removed overlinking in intro ("Spanish"), etc).

Meanwhile, you can ask anyone engaged in football (User:GiantSnowman is a good "bet") to see if I'm lying. Last but not least, why the shouting (i did add an exclamation point, maybe that's what set you off, but i was not aggressive or unpolite), and what's a blanket revert (i speak English fairly well, but it's not my mothertongue of course), could you please explain me?

Sorry for any inconvenience, happy holidays --AL (talk) 01:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Always. If I remember correctly, you were going to find where a discussion where Portuguese and Spanish footballers were exempt from WP:NAMESORT.  I am aware of Brazilian footballers exemption.  I didn't think you could find one.  I always ask GiantSnowman football questions too.  If anyone can find where consensus was done or bring up a discussion about it, I'll gladly change NAMESORT.  Icelandic names are another exemption, but do it slightly different... any Icelandic category is done one way and everything else is done another way.  That might be an option for the footballers, but it could get messy.


 * A blanket revert is one where a person reverts for one problem, but ends up reverting all the other correct changes. Sorry about leaving in an '?' in the article, I only removed one instead of both.  I didn't undo two other changes you made. The "Spanish" wikilink I left in because it was the first mention in the body of the article.  The commas you removed shouldn't have been done.   I also apologize.  I thought the entire revert was reverting all my edits, but it wasn't.  You only reverted the sort and did the other changes independently.  I'm sorry for getting mad about that. Bgwhite (talk) 02:14, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I repeat, no worries. --AL (talk) 02:41, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Tech News: 2013-51
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes
 * The latest version of MediaWiki (1.23wmf8) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on December 19. It will be enabled on non-Wikipedia wikis on December 31 and on all Wikipedia wikis on January 2, 2014 (calendar).
 * You can now test the new search tool ("CirrusSearch") on all Wikisource, Wiktionary and Wikimedia chapter wikis hosted on Foundation servers. Enable "New search" in your Beta features preferences.
 * There was a bug where notifications were not sent when the signature of the user leaving the message linked to a translated namespace. The problem was fixed in the software and will soon be fixed on Wikimedia sites.
 * You can now use the log-in system for external tools (OAuth) on all Wikimedia wikis that use the unified login.
 * If your wiki adds stars or other icons to interwiki links for featured articles in other languages, you may need to [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js?diff=585965732 change the JavaScript code].
 * You can thank other users for their edits even if your browser does not have JavaScript.
 * All edits made through Flow, the new discussion system for MediaWiki, are now visible in user's contributions. You can test it on the Flow talk page on MediaWiki.org.
 * You can test a visual tool that shows edits made to an article over time. It only works for English Wikipedia pages for now and is slow on long articles.
 * You can test the first version of the new mobile Wikipedia app for Android and iOS.
 * Translatewiki.net, the site where you can translate the MediaWiki software, now has a [//translatewiki.net new main page] for users without an account.

Future software changes

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 08:22, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * There will be no technical changes this week (December 23 to December 29) due to end-of-year holidays.
 * When someone deletes, restores, uploads, or moves a file on Commons, pages on all wikis that use that file will be refreshed.
 * New users will soon have their user and talk pages added to their watchlist as soon as they create an account..
 * The new search tool (CirrusSearch) will not show the text of versions of a page that have been hidden.
 * You will soon be able to see the raw HTML created by some wikitext by using the Special:ExpandTemplates tool.

Docker's Guild
Restored the navigation box which is necessary (please leave it ) and restored the Guthrie Govan link which had been removed. I tried to remove all the double links to the other special guests. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.202.157.177 (talk) 14:22, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Navboxes like that do not go into articles. Notice the messages at the bottom of the article, below the template.  Navboxes go into Template space.  Create the navbox there.  Instructions are given in the wikilink.  If you need help, ask me.
 * Also, If the official website is given in External links, any other social media, such as Facebook, should not be listed. Bgwhite (talk) 21:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok! Still kind of new here, so I'll check it out thanks! I restored the categories however, they are all valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.202.157.177 (talk) 09:10, 23 December 2013 (UTC)