User talk:BhaiSaab/A5

Hkelkar
Hkelkar is trying all his fundamentalish ideas in Tipu Sultanand frequently vandalises it in the disguise of vikramji and just have a look what he has to the article! to whom should i report about his attitude.

Mujeerkhan19:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Er, I am not the one citing fake links to websites that don't exist. One wonders who is the real fundamentalish [sic] here.Hkelkar 19:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Qur'an
Are all Muslims fundamentalists? Ewan G Keenowe

Caliphate
It was democratic before the Ummayads. Zazaban 20:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Although I know that you know... Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Islam. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. -Patstuart 22:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

regarding Tipu Sultan
I'm sorry I used popups (I won't in future unless it's vandalism).However, the edits are still POV, and I have balanced it out. Plus, the Irfan habib link is dead (check it) and several of the edits need citations. Why don;t you try to provide them instead of deleting everything?Plus, I have an advocacy request and an RfA pending on the article so I'd appreciate some patience with you and other meatpuppets of the Muslim Guild.Hkelkar 18:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Come on, BhaiSaab. Be objective. Surely you can do that. I think you can.Hkelkar 18:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know that I am right about the Muslim Guild. It's not my problem as you all seem to be more involved with whitewashing Islamism right now. However, I'd appreciate it if you could hold off the revert wars on Tipu Sultan until the admins mandate action.Hkelkar 18:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well can you ,er, proove[sic] it?Hkelkar 18:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Simultaneously???Hkelkar 18:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I know you have been blocked recently and reacted to it with a rather large amount of hostility.Maybe you hould cool off about that as I was not involved there.Hkelkar 18:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Very well.I have seen evidence that there is an Islamist cabal on wikipedia and will continue to regard you as a member, no hostility there either. However, the removal of sourced edits is an act of vandalism, particularly when I did not remove that Mujeerkhan chap's unsourced stuff. Also, I have maintained a meutral narrative in the edit to Tipu Sultan, not taking a position on the allegations of religious persecution so my edits still stand on their own metir. Hope you will realize this.Hkelkar 19:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And accusations of sockpuppetry and Hindutva come from Islamists and their left-wing sympathizers, not a lot of merit there either :-) .Hkelkar 19:08, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * So what you are saying is that you're basically supporting a bogus troll made RFCU just to get Subhash-bose banned by crook?Bakaman Bakatalk 23:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Since you obviously support the RFCU, do you think I'm subhsh_bose?Bakaman Bakatalk 01:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Didnt see that.Bakaman Bakatalk 01:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * "Likely" is hardly conclusive. Plus, you're only speculating of course.I doubt that the admins will make any summary judgements based on the needs of the Muslim guild.Hkelkar 05:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

helker is using terms like "mohammedians" for muslims, which is a insult to all muslims and further more he said "Jews, Hindus, christians, and Baha'ii would feel the same way about being routinely called "Kaffir" or "Dhimmi" of "Dar-al-Harb" yet the terms are frequently used by Muslims/Musil-leem" which does not have a nexus with regards to Tipu Sultan

i tired to explain him but to no avail and also demanded an apology from him but he refrained from doing so which amounts to NPOV, uncivil, etc

Mujeerkhan 18:52, 1 october 2006 (UTC)

Help required
I need your help in improving article regarding The Quran and science as without proper reference and more material it might be deleted. Can you please help in extending it? --- ابراهيم 01:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

RFCU
This might be interesting: Requests_for_checkuser -  17:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Now that the article is unprotected, I'll try to expand it with some useful information. -  00:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Admin
Not currently an administrator. DRK 19:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm not currently interested in pursuing a nomination though. DRK 22:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not particularly nice. What exactly is your point? DRK 22:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Here, you must note the "currently". It's my (poor) understanding that FSF used to be an admin, but got desysopped (spelling?). As of now he's working on regaining his lost status. He works his good contributions on his main sock, while keeping the controversial stuff on alternates ones. He got a good grasp on policy gaming so he'll probably succeed, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since most of his non-controversial edits are top-notch. Jean-Philippe 22:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Pakistani nationalism

 * Hi. Think calmly. Several users, including Ruylong, regard the edits of seagal as vandalism (see edit history). Plus, the copyvio image of the Pakistani soldiers praying that he put there has been speedily deleted (check for yourself) per my db request. I am looking at the part abt nationalism and politics and will re-add that bit myself if it looks okay. The military edits are pure garbage and violate at least 2 wikipedia policies.Hkelkar 05:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The politics part does not seem so bad so kept it. The entire military part is unsourced (the only ref is a rediff article that does not correspond to the edit at all).Hkelkar 05:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * See the issues in my latest post of Talk:Pakistani nationalism. Claims of "Humiliating defeat" to India by pakistan are absurd per wikipedia articles on the Indo-Pak wars themselves, and the SI war entry is irrelevant as Pakistan had nothing to do with it. The war on terror part may be ok.Hkelkar 05:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your concern
But I did not deliberately add any incorrect information to any articles.

Cheers, Uzumaki 18:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Please stop. I do not care for your incivil comments or your attempts to provoke me. Just leave me alone. Uzumaki 20:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in User:Uzumaki. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.

I'm warning you both, btw. --tjstrf 20:34, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Checkuser
I'll leave that to you, since I have no precise knowledge of the guy he supposedly is a sock of. --tjstrf 21:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * True, but it's a clear-cut offense and will get him (and you) blocked for a period, stopping the conflict for a while at least. --tjstrf 21:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

About Islam
Hi.I hope I don't insult you by asking this but I was just wondering if it is possible in Islam to interperet early prophets such as adam and noah as metaphorical symbolic prophets rather than as literal human beings? I am intrested to learn about Islam as I believe that it is a good religon. Ewan g

For more metaphors and symbolism within Islam, you should look into the tradition called sufism.HeBhagawan 04:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess I was actually answering Ewan g's question above. Take care! HeBhagawan 04:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Best take a breather.
Due to the nature of the complaint, you're very likely to be blocked. Shucks :P In any case I'm watching him, a good admin has been notified and I'll wait and see what happens with that. I recommend against a rfcu as the sock as been clearly identified and a rfcu can only cause problems (eg.:public computer). He's baiting you, and responding to him is a waste of your time. He stopped abusing articles and I'll be watching him. Cheers. Jean-Philippe 21:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Manusmriti
Manusmriti is the normative text for caste system. If it says that a Shudra can become a Brahmin under special circumstances then he can. Plus, precedent of Caste elevation exists with Shivaji.05:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I can say the same thing abt Muslims also. Plus, the elevation of Shivaji's caste is an excellent precedent for some mobility:

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780375407284&view=excerpt

Well Caste mobility is pretty rare among Muslims also (exceptions. not rules). The Shivaji quote is below:

An obliging Brahmin was found who agreed -- for a suitable fee [my add:Standard practice to pay Brahmins to do religious rites, even they have to eat y'know :) ] -- to arrange for Shivaji's elevation to the Kshatriya caste

Plus, look at the coronation section of Shivaji where this is mentioned. Caste elevations, though rare, were not completely barred. Another example is Tagore (a low caste Thakkur) who write the Indian national Anthem in Sanskrit (generally only the purview of Brahmins).Hkelkar 05:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

And I'll change it to enlist that it wasn;t exactly fluid in Islam either.Hkelkar 05:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Same to you. Provide sources for your assertions (Cite page # & chapter # in the Fuller ref and I will check it to see whether you're fibbing or not).Hkelkar 05:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I am reading another paper regarding social mobility in teh caste system:

Social Mobility in the Caste System in India: An Interdisciplinary Symposium. by James Silverberg

American Journal of Sociology

Once I read it I may have more stuff with regards to this. The fact that there is a research paper prove that social mobility DOES exist.Hkelkar 05:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Mine indicate that there was.Plus, the paper shows precedent for this.Hkelkar 05:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Tipu Sultan
Hi - as I'm sure you're aware, there has been some edit warring going on at Tipu Sultan, which has, from what I've seen, lead to some nasty accusations and personal attacks. Of course, these are things that we don't want in Wikipedia - we're building an encylcopedia, not making an informal forum for arguement. I have been called upon to mediate for, and provide my opinion on the article in question by User:Hkelkar, and am sending this message to all those to whom I feel it pertains. What I am looking for are reasons for the reversion (or, as I could be seen by some, content blanking) of edits by Hkelkar, which were well sourced (WP:CITE) verifiable (WP:V) and presented in a neutral point of view (WP:NPOV), in the hope that with this reasoning, I can turn the article back into a peaceful editting area. As part of this request, I would like you to consider that Hkelkar's submissions were well sourced, and that if there is a counter arguement against them, then that should be included too - the whole contribution should never be deleted. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and please place your reply in a new section on my talk page. Thanks again, M  a  rtinp23  13:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

spy comment
All four of us know thats perfectly true.Bakaman Bakatalk 02:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

It is a fence you should stay far away from; you are not entitled to three reverts. I am going to tell you the same thing I told Hkelkar: Simply, do not revert at all. Discuss on the talk page. You should never be doing a complete revert more than once, and only then if it is a new, previously undiscussed change, and the revert should be with a full edit summary that would reasonably convince the other user that his edit was incorrect. Except in such special case, do not make any reverts in a content dispute. You have been edit warring before, and you should realize that aside from being blocked, it is simply not productive. The change you want is not going to be implemented by reverting. You must convince other editors why a change ought to be made. —Centrx→talk &bull; 03:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think admins can just put arbitrary limits on whatever user they want - that is for the arbitration committee. BhaiSaab talk 03:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * We would have considered unblocking you at that point of time, if you would have said something like – "I want to contribute to the encyclopedia and the block hinders that". Please remember that the policies and guidelines exist for Wikipedia and not the other way around; they are not hard and fast laws that can be used to request unblocks. Regards, &mdash; Nearly Headless Nick  {L} 17:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I somehow really doubt that. BhaiSaab talk 19:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Bat Ye'or
Is she dead? BhaiSaab talk 05:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not that I knew of, are you perhaps thinking of Oriana Fallaci--CltFn 05:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

You removed from her from the living persons category. BhaiSaab talk 05:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I thought that was irrelevant and unnecessary clutter, should we tag every living person's bio with that tag? If you feel its that importatnt then I guess you can put it back--CltFn 05:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * OK then --CltFn 05:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Please don;t correspond with me anymore

 * I find your AfD for anti-Hindu to be a horrific act. I cannot correspond with you anymore and since you have a disparaging attitude towards me it will only waste both our time to argue.Hkelkar 01:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Islam.
You're very welcome. I have peer reviewed it in order to find out what information should be on there, and then we can get on with refining it. I see no reason why, with a little sprucing, it shouldn't become GA once more. The only complicated and thorny issue for FA is the references, as all prose problems can be dealt with. Dev920 (check out this proposal) 17:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to Category:Shi'a Muslims
Your recent edit to Category:Shi'a Muslims (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 05:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

censoring links on the CAIR page
One of the links you mentioned is broken, so let's add the one I wanted to add instead. It is not a big deal, just an alternate point of view. Elizmr 01:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Indian caste system
You make a fair point. Having said that, their blocks will expire tomorrow then they'll start reverting each other again, and there's been a bit of block evasion going on already. Hmm. Ask Gwernol and see what he thinks. -- Steel 16:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello dear user BhaiSaab. I totally agree with you ! I've been also accused of antisemitism by Hkelkar (see my user talk page on ) simply because I used the word 'neocon'. But the funniest of all is that User:Shiva's Trident (also known under the name Netaji) introduces himself as neocon !. May be it's time to settle that case once and for all. We can mail-exchange info if you like. All the best and congratulations for your win. TwoHorned 17:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Please vote
Please take a look at Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/16. It seems that some people want to remove any reference to Palestine. --Palestine48 15:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

edit-warring
btw edit-warring will get us both in trouble so please stop and get arbitration.Hkelkar 17:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Word-sparring on the talk page will get us nowhere. Let's just ask for mediation and see what the mediator has to say.Hkelkar 18:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have already asked somebody to mediate. I will go in irc and ask for mediation. Why don't you log in also?Hkelkar 18:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * wikipedia-en.Hkelkar 18:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for anti-Semitic trolling, edit-warring, fighting
You have been blocked for 1 week, mainly due to User talk:Hkelkar. Since Hkelkar is a declared Jew, and Ahmadinejad is a well-known holocaust denier and virulently anti-Semitic, I can only presume that you are trying to provoke something from him. Add to that, a lot of edit-warring and general fighting. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 08:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad is not anti-Semitic, so what's your problem? Does denying the holocaust automatically make one anti-Semitic and would this ever take place if he was anti-Semitic? Considering that Hkelkar goes sprouting opinions about Ahmadinejad all over the place, then you don't allow me do the same I would consider this a double standard. Another admin reviewed the same edits and I received no block, then you come in and look at the section on Hkelkars page without seeing what he did elsewhere, and decide to block me. Very irresponsible. BhaiSaab talk 10:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Blnguyen, I don't support ahmadinejad in anyway but you should take back your accusation of anti-semitism. You might want to read this article from Bernad Lewis http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/21832.html . In any case, such an unjustified accusations, especially as a pretext for a block is unexpected from an educated, decent and respected editor of wikipedia. --Aminz 10:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I suggest bringing this issue to the ANI page. What do you think BhaiSaab? --Aminz 10:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I would like to see Blnguyen's reaction to my statement before anyone takes this to ANI. I don't think Blnguyen realizes that not everyone has the same opinion about Ahmadinejad, and just because some western governments don't like his anti-Israel stance, it doesn't mean everyone agrees with them. BhaiSaab talk 10:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, as you wish. I probably will be away from wikipedia for around 6 hours. --Aminz 10:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems some misunderstanding, Blnguyen might have overlooked that it was Kelkar who introduced Ahmadinejad in that writing first.Best idea in such cases is to slap an incivility tag rather than replying anything.My view, I could be wrong TerryJ-Ho 18:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Blnguyen seems to be ignoring the comments on his talk page. BhaiSaab talk 01:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you want me to bring it to the ANI? (I am going for Iftar now but will be back in a few hours) --Aminz 01:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, please. BhaiSaab talk 01:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * BhaiSaab, at this point you might want to state that you'll just drop this line of editing and commentary related to all of this. Becausing blocking is meant as a preventative measure doing this will likely enhance the possibility of your being unblocked. Take it easy. (→ Netscott ) 07:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your suggestion Netscott. I will take it into consideration. BhaiSaab talk 08:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents
Hkelkar writes: "He made some of the most frightening comments I had heard in my life, up to and including polemical attacks against Jews (not Israel, but Jews as a people). A lot of these statements are considered as anti-semitic. I did not react well to those statements and was in a very agitated state.

However, since these statements were made off wikipedia, I ask that it be entered into evidence only as context."

In my defense, I state that he is lying - I have never said anything against Jews. However, I don't really care to hide my feelings when it comes to talking about ardent Zionists. I am somewhat surprised to see his allegations considering his statements in the same conversation. BhaiSaab talk 08:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually have the log of the conversation, and since Hkelkar brought it up, I feel everyone can evaluate it for themselves. Bear in mind this is off Wikipedia and we were not bound by Wikipedia rules. BhaiSaab talk 08:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Session Start: Wed Oct 18 14:35:53 2006
 * Session Ident: hkelkar
 * �02(�(
 * � � � �02 —›�12 �12query with �02(�12hkelkar��02)�12
 * � � � �02 —›�12 �12total queries: 21 �02(�12~0.1 per day��02)�12
 * � � � �02 —›�12 �12queries today: 1
 * � � � �02 —›�12 �12common channels: #wikipedia-en
 * �02(�(
 * �02�(�BhaiSaab�02�)� well?
 * � � � �02 —›�12 private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer.
 * � � � �02 —›�12 private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer.


 * please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
 * Session Close: Wed Oct 18 14:36:08 2006


 * Session Start: Wed Oct 18 14:37:40 2006
 * Session Ident: hkelkar
 * �02(�(
 * � � � �02 —›�12 �12query with �02(�12hkelkar��02)�12 �02(�12n=hkelkar@cpe-70-113-127-86.austin.res.rr.com��02)�12
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 * �02(�(
 * �02�(�BhaiSaab�02�)� sfd
 * � � � �02 —›�12 private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer.
 * � � � �02 —›�12 private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer.


 * please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� ?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� stop misrepresenting sources and this could be all over with already.
 * � � � �02 —›�12 hkelkar is identified to services
 * ��02(�(�12 /whois start ��02�)�)
 * �02 —› �1�hkelkar� �12is "�hkelkar��12" �02(�12n=hkelkar@cpe-70-113-127-86.austin.res.rr.com�02)�
 * �11 —› �hkelkar� �12reg in� �#wikipedia-en�
 * �11 —› �hkelkar� �12using� irc.freenode.net �02(�12http://freenode.net/�02)�
 * ��02(�(�12 /whois end ��02�)�)
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I said "stop misrepresenting sources and this could be all over with already."
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� well they're obviously supporting the statements I'm making....yours are iffy.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� why are you arguing in front of everyone
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you have a hindu name and yet you say you're jewish...
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� and you always use "canard" like subhash bose
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� hello?!?!
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� hrishi@physics.utexas.edu
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you never responded to my email
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Dad is Hindu, mom is Jewish and I am Jewish by matrilineage. What does that have to do with anything?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� the hrishi account is /dev/null'ed for spam protection
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� what is /dev/null
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� so what's subhash bose' email if you're two seperate people
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you're active now, and he's inactive. very fishy
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I'm no bayvakouf.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� "/dev/null" is a device file
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� look it up
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I explained why that is
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Him being inactive and me active
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Your level of intelligence means nothing to me
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I'm sure you can find out what anyone's email is
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I can't find out his email. I don't know his name.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� If you're not a bayvakoug that is
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� correction bayvakouf
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I am reluctant to divulge his name out of respect for his privacy
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� contact him and find out. Don;t involve me
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� don't be ridiculous - you have the very same name.
 * � � � �02 —›�12 part: �02(�12hkelkar�02) (�12n=hkelkar@cpe-70-113-127-86.austin.res.rr.com�02) �02(�12"Konversation terminated!"��02)�12


 * ��02(�12#wikipedia-en��02)�12
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� huh?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� subhash bose and hkelkar are the same??
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you're the same person - you have to be.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� You have been to a few too many al-Qaeda chatrooms, it's started to affect your thinking
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� there are so many similarities between the two of you - I'm 98% sure you're the same person.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I am 98% sure you have cheered for too many exploding people. What's your point exactly?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� the only reason you don't admit it is because your credibility would be ruined
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� then no more Hindutva campaign
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� My credibility is based on my scholarly edits
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Don't kid yourself.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� No more Lashkar campaign for you either yoksh
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I'm not affiliated with Lashkar.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� why would you be soooo defensive of Hinduism if you're Jewish? Makes no sense.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� and you can't be Jewish by matrilineage.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I yes I can
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You have to be Jewish by patrilineage.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Indeed, it is inherited by matrilineage
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� nope. I am a Jew because my mother is a Jew
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� never heard that one?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� No.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Indeed, you can never know who your father is but always can know who your mother is
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I believe manimonides said that
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� A jewish woman can't marry a Gentile.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� but they do
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� all the time
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They're still Jewish
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� As am I
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� shalom
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� aleikhem
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I am not defensive of Hinduism at all
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Why are you so defensive of terrorists?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yes you are, that's why you're on the attack of Islam all the time.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Where have I been defensive of terrorists?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� is this some Islamophobia?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� neologism
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� bad way to conduct an argument
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Plus, your obvious antisemitism needs no mention
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yeah alright
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� "I hate the yahoodis"!!!!!!!
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Yehudis
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Yehudim actually
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Does not surprise me
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� at all
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� go ahead
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� hate us
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I hate Israel - I do not hate Jews.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� there's a difference.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� we are too powerful and well connected to care about terrorists
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� http://www.nkusa.org/
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� are those people anti-Semitic?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� No they are self-hating Jews
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Nobody cares about such fringe lunatics
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They can embrace the Palestinians all they want
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� That's ridiculous, just like Zionism
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� The Palestinians will kill them anyway, rabid Jew-haters that they are
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I love those Jews - they're awesome.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� riiight
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� If you are against Israel you are an antisemite
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� God promised Israel to US in the Bible
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� LOL
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You're making the assumption that I believe in the Bible though.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I don't.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Doesn;t matter
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� the divine truth is still the divine truth
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� That's like saying that anyone that hates the caliphate is anti-Muslim
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� there is no caliphate
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� but there was
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� you can't hate something that is not there
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� of course you can
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� YOU can
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Israel is a monster.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Ha
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� funny
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They still win, too bad
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Israel will always win
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� No Arab will ever defeat a Jew
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� because of US support
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Like I said, too bad for you
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� if the US didn't support Israel, it would be gone already
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� We still win, you still lose
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� And the Israeli lobby in the US.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� they're poisonous snakes.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Ha!Ha!
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� The old antisemitic canard
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� How funny it is today
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yeah whatever
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I love the Jews that hate Zionism
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� You should have been around in dacau
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� The Germans would love you there
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� "Jewish Conspiracies" lifted right off of Der Sturmer
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� beautiful
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� right
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� again, a few antismites here and there don;t affect us
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� we till win
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� still
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� this is a great documentary on the lobby:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=undefined
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� it's real.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� it's not fake.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� David Duke loved that paper
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Ah, yes, the "lobby"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Let's not talk about the Saudi lobby
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Well I don't like the Saudis
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� and their holding the US hostage with oil
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� so, yes, let's not.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� google for pallywood
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)�

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

nkX1xr6QqZc3arvX9YpYlo=&sig2=SSkQF5CB46IXmYROHD68EA
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� interesting, no?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yes, but it can't account for everything
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Neither can this imaginary "lobby" of yours
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� these videos are probably made by some stupid Zionists
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� hahaha
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� 60 Minutes is "Zionist"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Now that's what I call paranoid
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� What's next
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Where else are the "eeeevil Ziiiionists"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Fox?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� CNN
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you never what influence the zionists have influence in the media
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Hollywood?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Funny
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Dementia is always amusing to behold
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yeah they're definitely in hollywood - that's why Muslims are always depicted as terrorists.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� But many Muslims are terrorists yoksh
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yeah that's because of the stupid zionist aggresion towards them
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Most terrorists are Muslims
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Muslims have been terrorists before Zionism even existed
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� look at what they have done in India only
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Genocide, mass murder, hatred, rapine, devastation
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� nothing different than Hindus
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Not really
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� or the Zionists
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Hindus never committed genocide
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Muslim have, countless times
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Pagan Arabs, Zoroastrians
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Jews, Hindus
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� the list is truly endless
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Even Christians in Spain, greece
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Morocco
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� jews enjoyed greater freedom under Islam than Christianity
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� what is your beef
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� sure
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� and I'm Moshe himself
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� My beef is that you Muslims are getting in the way of G-d's word
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� and now you will pay
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You zionists are always Islamophobic.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� ha ha
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� we still win
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� you still lose
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� first I was a sockpuppet of a goyim
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� The new generation of Muslims will change that.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� and now I am a zionist?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� who's goyim
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� keep dreaming
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� subhash
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They can change nothing if they're busy being bombed in caves
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� wheres Goyim's University of Texas page
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� dunno if he keeps one
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Again, I respect his privacy so will divulge no information concerning him
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� contact him
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� he's a good gentile though
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� http://chaos.ph.utexas.edu/user-index.html
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you're there
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� he's not
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you're both in physics
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� No Jew calls his own friend a gentile.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� What makes you think he''s affiliated with the Chaos group?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� because it has to do with Physics
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� at U of T.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� But there is more toPhysics than Chaos
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is String Theory
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is Particle Physics
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is Condensed Matter Physics
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is Plasma physics
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is Bio Physics
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You just made up "Goyim"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� There is nonlinear dynamics
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� there is no one by that name
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Nope
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Goyim means "Of the Nation"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� It's hebrew
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Subhash is a Goyim
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� of the Gentile nation
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goy
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Some zionists must have set up this Pallywood video.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� lol
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� funny
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Who has time to fake their own suffering
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Palestinians do
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They are rather good at propaganda
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� the zionists are good at propaganda
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Their lies just got exposed
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� and destroying the land of the palestinians
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Palestinians have no land
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� they should get kicked out and find their homeland in Germany
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They never did
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They never will
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� why don't you go to Israel if you're such a fervent zionist...
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� the land was for the Jews
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I have been to Israel
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� temple mount, Haifa, even the Golan Heights
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� seen 'em all
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� loved it
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� loved to see the palestinians in tents
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� getting what they so richly deseerve
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you are malicious
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� why do they deserve it?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� As are you
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� attacking Hindus all over wikipedia
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� because the are too weak to do anything
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You are Hindu.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� right
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� sure
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Are you trying to insult me?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Because it is a pathetic job
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Do you take that as an insult?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I have nothing against Hindus
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They're all right
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They never attacked Jews
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you are Hindu, just admit it.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� But I'm not
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Though I know a lot about the religion
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� because my dad is a Hindu
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I know a lot of Indians
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� and?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I never seen an Indian Jew in the US.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I don't believe you.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� You have now
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I don;t care
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� go ahead, think what you will
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Doesn;t affect me at all
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� ok wheres the pictures of you in Israel - you have none!
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� How do you know that?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� How do you know what pics I have?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� because if I asked, you wouldn't be able to produce any.
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� I know.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� What if I don;t want to share them?
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� They are deeply personal
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� You don't have any.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Believe that
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I don't care
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� We still win
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� There is no "we"
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Jews
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� We still win
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� Just accept that you're subhash bose, and you're hindu
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� at long last
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� ^_^
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you were bored one day in Physics lab
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� you made some dumb wikipedia account and called it subhash bose
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� then you kept getting banned on that account
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� so you decided to make an account with your real name
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� and pretended subhash bose is someone else.
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Shall we have a look at your block log?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� the only reason you don't get blocked too much is because you learned your lesson using Subhash bose
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Forgive me, but what purpose does this little sparring contest serve?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� just admit you're the same person
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Man, you are really obsessed
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� I'm flatterred
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� because I know I am right!
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Thoug a Muslim's obsesion with a Jew is uaually a recipe for the Jew's death
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Not this time, eh?
 * �02�(�[BhaiSaab]�02�)� yeah well you're Hindu
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� sigh
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� That doesn;t work
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� ^__^
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� Anyhow I'm off for my daily Daf Yomi
 * �02�(�hkelkar�02�)� It should be more fun after this little chat
 * Session Close: Wed Oct 18 15:47:02 2006


 * "Zionist", when used as a pejorative, is usually a euphemism for veiling anti-semitic sentiments.Hkelkar 19:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well that's too bad because you can't prove that I used it with that intention. BhaiSaab talk 21:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus,like I said on ANI, I am not proud of my reaction to his glorifying the holocaust denier who's presently runing Ira q n.Hkelkar 19:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Iran. BhaiSaab talk 21:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Humus Sapiens said on ANI:


 * Posting an IRC log is a policy violation: see . ←Humus sapiens ну? 19:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well that would be true if this was a log of wikipedia-en. However, it's a log of a private conversation. Read the logging prohibition. BhaiSaab talk 21:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * he PM'ed me when I was on wikipedia-en. Thus, this is a subset of that conversation (I had asked him to come there).Hkelkar 02:00, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Bakaman wrote on ANI:
 * Well BhaiSaab has been blocked a multitude of times (9 to be exact), mostly for contentious edits and revert warring. It would be 10 but for the fact that he misled an admin to believe I had vandalized an article (while he was doing the blanking) under the canard of "copyvio". Terry, if you havent forgot, you yourself have given users nice names like "fascist" and "paid agent".Bakaman Bakatalk 20:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)"
 * That's pretty funny because blnguyen found I was right about the entire passage being copied and WP:VAND states that knowingly inserting copyrighted material is indeed vandalism. So the only "canard" I see here is Bakaman's deliberate false statements. BhaiSaab talk 01:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I guess there was no vandalism by Bakasuprman, this still holds, there wasn't vandalous material from the same section is a canard too. I guess you didnt read blnguyen's comment.Bakaman Bakatalk 05:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Since when does are admin's statements that directly contradict policy valid? If you've never read it, take a look at WP:VAND and read the copyrighted material clause. Fits what you did quite perfectly. BhaiSaab talk 05:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Since you're the only user on wiki harboring fantasies about "Copyvio" I could merely cite WP:VAND's section on blanking, which is what you did.Bakaman Bakatalk 05:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah? Well unfortunately for you Copyrights states "If some of the content of a page really is an infringement, then the infringing content should be removed..." BhaiSaab talk 05:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

For future reference...
Judaism is indeed matrilineal. If the mother is Jewish, then (according to Jewish law) the child is automatically considered Jewish by default. The reasoning for this is that, although a child's father may not always be definitively known, the mother always is. DS 17:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Warning
This is in reference to your recent edit on Hkelkar's talk page. . Do not bait users with edits like this. If you have some problem with the user file a RfC or an arbitration case. If you do not have anything meaningful to write on his page then please DO NOT do so. Consider this as your final warning. - Aksi_great (talk) 10:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Final warning eh? I guess we'll see. BhaiSaab talk 10:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You are always allowed to suspect anyone of anything. Everyone involved knows about this particular thing. If you want you can create as many cases as you want too. But refrain from repeating the same things again on his talk page. - Aksi_great (talk) 10:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Because wikipedia is not a battleground. I consider the edit you made on Hkelkar's page as an edit made to bait Hkelkar. And hence the warning. - Aksi_great (talk) 10:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If Hkelkar knows what you think and you know that he knows, then your edit was pointless. That's what I have been saying. Now please do not argue with me. I think we both know why I warned you. Don't try to fool everyone. - Aksi_great (talk) 11:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As a side note: feel free to try RFCU again, if you feel you have enough evidence in patterns/styles etc. to link the two users. Daniel.Bryant 11:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry RfC
I have some clues indicating that Hkelkar is effectively a sockpuppet of Netaji == Subhash bose. Would you want an help for that ? Or may be it's already settled. Just tell me. Cheers. TwoHorned 11:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

On Hindutva, Hkelkar, Bakaman etc.
I hope it will help. About all these hindutvavadis, there is something that should be mentionned: all these guys don't have the slightest notion of what Hindu orthodoxy is. The immense majority of Hindus is very friendly towards Muslims. I go sometimes to India, in big cities, small villages, countryside, everywhere I go I see Hindus very friendly to Muslims. I have plenty Hindus friends in India that say the same. The reality is that all the political squirmishes triggered by the Hindutva movement seems closely related to another agenda that does not come from India at all... Hence the hatred that Hkelkar got at me when I said that Koenraad Elst's agenda is extremely close to that of neocon Daniel Pipes about Indian matters... Hence the progressive lack of interest of Koenraad Elst or Francois Gautier about India politics since the last elections. By adopting extremist and anti-muslims postures, these guys were hoping a lot from the last elections in India. Their failure is my bliss. TwoHorned 16:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Edits to Google censorship
Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.(the edit I reverted) M a rtinp23 13:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'll gladly explain. I was on RC patrol, and came across (this edit.  I wasn't sure whether to consider it vandalism or not, so I asked fellow users on IRC, and was advised to revert and warn, which I have done.  I hope this clears it up, M a rtinp23 20:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The "Hate speech" part seems to be slighty POV, and melodramatic in the context - certainly not ecyclopedic when compared to the previous header. I have no objection with the change of "Islamism" to "Islam" - but that is all that I feel you should have done.  I hope this explains it - any further questions, please feel free to ask -- M a rtinp23 20:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In all honesty, I do not feel that this, in any way, alters what the heading should be, though I appreciate why you entered it now. The thing to look at is trying to make the section headers useful to someone looking at the toc of the article.  If they just see "Hate speech against Islam", they amy get the wrong impression, or not realise what the section is about.  "Sites critical of Islam(ism)" is, however, far less ambiguous, and so the casual borwser is going to get more understanding from it.  I hope this helps -- M a rtinp23 20:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In the light of what you've told me, I'm willing to WP:AGF and strike out your warning. Thanks, M a rtinp23 20:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)