User talk:Bharatavarsh.1947

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Editorkamran (talk) 03:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Contentious topics
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Creating articles on other Namdhari Gurus
Hello @Bharatavarsh.1947, have you considered creating articles on the other Namdhari Gurus, such as Guru Hari Singh, Guru Partap Singh, and Guru Jagjit Singh? It would be a great improvement of Wikipedia's current coverage on the Namdharis and their leaders. I was reading your additions to Guru Ram Singh's article and believe you are the right person for this task. ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear @ThethPunjabi Thanks a lot for appreciating and considering this. I have been reading about Indian Independence Movement a lot, specifically focusing on the recent scholarship on decolonial and post-colonial manifestations of the colonial past and its impact on the colonized people etc. My primary aim on Wikipedia was to highlight the contributions of mid-19th century Punjab towards freedom (post-1857 Sepoy Mutiny defeat). A number of sources have naively generalized the role of Sikhs as proponents of imperial Raj. They have either willfully or unintentionally missed the post-1857 part and stressed solely on the assistance provided to East India Company by Phulkian States to crush the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857. They then fast-forward to Jallianwala Bagh incidence as the cause of renewed awakening in Punjab, completely missing more than half a century of selfless struggle by Namdhari Sikhs, peasants, Ghadar movement and others. Even in 1857 Sepoy Mutiny, not all Sikhs had supported the imperial cause.
 * However, my introductions on Indian Independence Movement were resented by editors. They referred to the less space dedicated to the efforts of Namdhari Guru Ram Singh in contemporary literature. In the process, I found that some sources that I referred to were not WP: HISTRS, although some of the sources that other editors were using were completely biased and motivated by colonial cause. Plus, a number of references in the Indian Independence Movement page have not been mentioned even a single time in the standard texts, yet find a place there. But I moved forward with suggestion of one of the editors to move the details to Wiki: Namdhari pages.
 * You have suggested an excellent idea. We can create pages on other Namdhari Gurus as well. I request you to kindly help me with this. I can add more details with reliable references. I really appreciate your efforts in improving the Wiki in its right mission of being 'a sum total of verifiable human knowledge'. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 01:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bharatavarsh.1947 I plan on creating an article on Bhai Maharaj Singh. He was a Sikh who rebelled against the British rule from 1849–1856. Not a lot of people know about him. A lot of information about early Sikh freedom fighters is indeed completely missing from the current standard narrative. I have to agree there is definitely a bias in-general against Sikhs on Wikipedia that I have personally experienced. I haven't look into detail of the issue you were experiencing. I did add a snippet discussing the role Namdharis played in the Indian independence movement a few months back but I haven't check to see the status of the article since then. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @ThethPunjabi Yes, the snippet that you added was removed. But the information that I was intending to add was very brief and backed thoroughly with citations. Bhai Maharaj Singh and Bhai Bir Singh Naurangabadi definitely need a mention, as the understanding of the transitions period of Sikh empire and colonization is incomplete without it. In fact, Guru Ram Singh mentions both in his letter Hukamnamas. This is a connected past that has been overlooked and denied mention even in earlier Sikh sources, as they were under colonial influence at that time. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 03:02, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bharatavarsh.1947 Why are users removing this information? What reason have they given? ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bharatavarsh.1947 My addition hasn't been removed actually. I hope that brings you some solace. ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh Okay. I thought that one 'Namdhari Sikhs' section was added and removed, and perhaps you had created it. I don't disagree with its removal as the sourcing was reported to be wrong. However, in my case, the discussion later shifter to WP: DUE consideration. Given the fact that when many others, clearly not within the ambit of WP: DUE, find a prominent space in the IIMR article, then the role of Guru Ram Singh shouldn't have been treated differentially.
 * But one gets to learn a lot from these discussions invariably. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 06:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bharatavarsh.1947 - WP:DUE always came across as a very fickle and subjective rule to apply in my experience. ThethPunjabi (talk) 06:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it’s annoying when it is applied differentially. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 13:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)