User talk:Bignole/Archive/2008/October

Chloe Sullivan
The Chlois theory is merely a fan theory. It has no place in an encyclopedia. There are theories that state the Lionel Luthor is actually Lex Luthor, and that Lana Lang has meteor freak abilities, but they are not placed on their respective Wikipedia pages. An encyclopedia presents objective information, and the subjective notion that Chloe is Lois Lane is just that; subjective. 70.188.235.56 (talk) 01:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * At the very least, the extra quote by Allison Mack is unnecessary. It presents her own personal, subjective view. This is an encyclopedia, an objective device that presents data and not viewpoints. It doesn't matter what Mack thinks. The creators I can understand, but Mack, no. I would also suggest changing "many" to "some", since the former signifies a subjective amount. 70.188.235.56 (talk) 02:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * One more thing; under Relationships, could we change "the audience" in the second sentence to something less all-encompassing? Perhaps: Though believers in "the Chlois Theory" suspected that... 70.188.235.56 (talk) 03:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Jason Voorhees changes.
Why do you keep changing the Jason page back? It is not a fact that Jason survived drowning and it is not a fact he didn't. Your deleting updates because you say they are opinion, but saying he survived his drowning is also an opinion. So only YOUR opinion should be posted? Put both on there because neither of them are facts. Besides, Part VIII supports him actually drowning, so why don't you include that in the Part VIII section? His death has been re-retconned back to drowning. Either that, or don't post anything at all about why he's back because it is never fully explained and it's up to opinion.

The ending of the first film is also only your opinion. It is not a fact that was a hallucination. The only fact is that Jason seems to jump out of the water at the end and attack Alice. It being a hallucination is just an idea.

Also, saying Freddy vs. Jason takes place directly after Jason Goes to Hell is not unnecessary information. You could say that about half the things on alot of these pages, so why erase it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.30.61 (talk) 05:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Jason Voorhees Part II
Well if Part 2 was a retcon, then isn't Part 8 a re-retcon? Based on what we are shown, Jason did drown in Crystal Lake in that movie and attacked Renee when she was a child. I know you don't want to post details, but is it not re-retconed in Part 8? They took the ending of the first movie literally, that it was not just a hallucination, and had Jason do the same thing he did in the first film. Correct? Nothing in Part 8 is supposed to be a hallucination. You think it's insignificant, but for people wanting to read up about Jason, I don't think it's a small detail that Part 8 says he drowned. You pick and choose which details you want to put in.

And Freddy vs. Jason takes place right after Jason Goes to Hell because the ending of Jason Goes to Hell coincides with the beginning of Freddy vs. Jason. Jason is under the ground, having been pulled under in JGTH, and Freddy brings him back. Freddy vs. Jason is a fairly good film in terms of continuity. Most horror movies are considered to take place when the films are released, and since Freddy vs. Jason came out in 2003 then it's fair to assume that's when it happens. Jason X starts off in 2008. Why would they have Jason be dead and under ground unless it was supposed to take place after his death in Jason Goes to Hell? Freddy also says "I searched the bowels of Hell, but I found someone". Hell has been established where Jason is from Jason Goes to Hell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.30.61 (talk) 03:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Randall Flagg
I expanded the lead to try to cover the whole article. I also did some grammar touch ups. Aside from the images, which I'll deal with when the time comes (although it has five fair use images, the same number as Palpatine, and two less than Jabba the Hutt), I think the article is pretty good and I was thinking I might want to give it a shot at FAC again. I just wanted to know if you think it has a shot.--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll look over it tomorrow and then I'll nominate it for FAC.--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of redirects...
...did you see this? Since you were part of the discussion at WP:TV-NC, I thought you might be interested. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Chat
So much for being a poverty-stricken student! :P Muchos respect for buying Buffy... how long has it been since you saw it on TV? Season 1 is my least favourite season, it's good for what it is, but with the exception of the excellent finale, the episodes are pretty inconsequential (although I've always had a soft spot for "Out of Mind, Out of Sight"). Season 2 is when the show really hit it's stride and proved what it was capable of. Hope you enjoy Sarah Connor!  Paul    730  01:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't have to get up to change the disc? My god, you lazy bastard.  I just use my Xbox 360 as a DVD player, it saves space in my room.  Gets a bit annoying sometimes using the controller as a remote but I soldier on.  Smallville season 1 ended on a cliffhanger though, I think Buffy was intended as a finite 12 episodes in case they didn't get picked up.  They did every season that way, except 6, which ended on a cliffhanger because they were guaranteed another year.  Each Angel season always ended on a cliffhanger.     Paul    730  01:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have Xbox live yet. I literally bought my Xbox for GTAIV alone and haven't used it for anything else yet (besides DVDs, obviously).  Buffy season 1 and 2 are very "monster of the week", but that doesn't really bother me.  It's more that season 1 is so light-hearted and quippy, I prefer the darkness that Angel's turn in season 2 brings to the show.  I love each Buffy season for what it is, but season 1 is my least watched.  I know what you mean about the MotW formula though, I think it's regarded as more accessible for casual viewers.  Russel T. Davies, who writes Doctor Who, says that he loves Buffy and Angel but they are totally inpenetrable for new viewers to get into.  Lol, I love that line of Sarah's, it really sums up her character.     Paul    730  01:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you make of the new actors? Oh, and how cool is Cromartie?  I can't put my finger on it, but he's really cool for some reason.     Paul    730  13:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What makes you say that? In all honesty, you could be right.  Cameron's origins and ultimate agenda are shrouded in mystery.     Paul    730  18:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Very interesting reasoning. I found the scene where she eats a crisp and says "I am different" pretty eerie.  I'm not sure how far into it you've watched by now, but Cameron displays a lot more "human" behaviour later in the season, sometimes for no real reason.  My mum theorised that maybe she wants to a be a human.  I've also heard rumours that maybe she was once a human and was turned into a cyborg by Skynet (see also I-950 from the novels).  Oh well, they've promised that there will be lots of revelations about Cameron's past in season 2 so I guess we'll just have to wait.     Paul    730  21:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Ew, Cameron being John's daughter is weird and incesty given the percieved sexual tension between them. Although I guess there's already a creepy vibe since she's posing as his sister... good theory though, I haven't heard that one before. There's a strange future-flashback in the episode "Dungeons & Dragons" which may relate to Cameron, and she has a history with Brian Austin Green's character. I have a theory that the reason John is such an effective fighter against the machines in the future is because of his relationships with them in his youth. No one understands the Terminators the way John does, and I think that will help him in the future, "know your enemy" and all that. I don't think John's hair is meant to be "emo", but rather a reference to Edward Furlong's silly fringe. It could be worse, he could have had a mullet like his friend in T2.  Paul    730  23:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Not criticizing John as a person, just saying it'd be a bit freaky to watch. Like, there's a Dawn/Xander relationship potentially on the cards in Buffy, and it's giving some fans the heeby jeebies because they view them as siblings.  Not sure how I feel about it myself TBH, we'll see how it goes.  Tell me what you think of Terminator when you're done. :)    Paul    730  23:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, you start your comment with "it was good" and then proceed to complain about everything! :P The Cromartie endoskeleton-timp jump thing is a continuity error that no one can explain. I guess there was maybe enough flesh left on him to allow the jump?  Or maybe the energy from Sarah's gun messed with the time tech and allowed him to come through by accident.  Non Talking Latina Girl is a total mystery to me, I hope we'll see more of her in season 2, same with the school friend of John's.  You have to remember that the season was cut short by the writer's strike, so not all plot threads have had time to wrap up yet.  I like both Cromarties, I enjoy his deadpan sense of humour, like when he thanks people for their assistance after he kills them.  I like that he just looked like Joe Normal, that's what the Terminators were meant to look like - infiltrators - before they cast Arnold.  What did you make of the revelation that Derek was Reese's brother?  You seemed oblivious to that earlier when you thought he was future John, so I was hoping to keep you unspoiled.  I really like Derek, he's obviously not as heroic as the Connors (killing Andy) and that conflict will be fun.  What did you think of the scene in the park in the last episode?  I didn't like the CG endoskeleton when Cromartie was getting in the bath, it looked kinda crap.  Doesn't bother me too much though, hopefully the budget will increase as the show does well.     Paul    730  13:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Zythe was telling me that Kyle's age is retconned in the show or something? He and Sarah are younger than they look in the first film, like 19 or 20.  I dunno.  Cromartie not killing Ellison will be explored into season 2 accoring to this interview.  Oh, and the person who ends up building Skynet is some Scottish bird.  'Mon the Scots, we destroy the world, yay! ;) I don't know if you've seen any promos for season 2?  Cameron's evil now apparrently.  I like the song in this one but you should have a look at the rest.  This one is hilarious.    Paul    730  13:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, obviously Evil Cam isn't going to stick, but there's some cool clips of Sarah and Derek urging John to kill her and he's all "No, I need her, I can't!!" Wasn't season 1 pretty popular?  It's Fox I suppose, don't they like gunning down popular shows out of sheer villainy?  I'm hoping Salvation will get people in a Terminator mood and increase ratings.     Paul    730  14:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, yeah, Willow's hacking skills are pretty convenient. No, it wasn't Chloe's hacking that I found silly, more her Mission: Impossible solo infiltration of Luthorcorp, and the fact that a 14/15/16 year old girl who works for a school paper has "contacts" across the country.  So how are you enjoying Buffy?  Did you know that Amy the witch from episode 3 is now a fully-fledged supervillian enemy to the Scoobies?  She's come so far.     Paul    730  21:42, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

They're drinking soft drinks and coffee. Trust me, "Reptile Boy" in season 2 establishes that Buffy doesn't drink (until that episode). The Bronze does serve alcohol, as seen in later seasons, but the characters don't get served. In season 3, Anya gets IDed and isn't happy about it ("I'm eleven hundred and twenty years old, just give me a frickin' beer!"). Angel won't become a cast regular until season 2 but he has a "centric" episode coming up for you to look forward to. Darla doesn't get any decent characterization until Angel season 2 when they figured out what they wanted to do with her; she's possibly acting like a ditz to attract male high school students, she's into the whole black widow thing. They basically retconned her personality if you really want to know. Xander coins the phrase "Scooby Gang" in season 2.  Paul    730  04:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dunno, maybe the prop guys got confused? Or more likely the Bronze is just a quirky place.  They're definitely not drinking, Buffy is a pretty anti-drinking show, they even had a whole episode about the evils of alcohol.  It was pretty crap. If you think Darla's original personality doesn't mesh well with her later one, wait until Anya is introduced.  In her first appearance, she's totally savvy socially compared to the total autistic person she becomes.  This might surprise you, but I kind of agree with you about Xander.  He is really prone to jealousy and can be quite unlikable in some episodes.  I think it's all in character though, think about it, his parents are abusive alcoholics, his friends pretty much take him for granted (more in the later seasons), and the love of his life would rather be with a demon than him.  Kinda explains why he's so bitter.  You'd need a full essay to psychoanalyse Xander, but in short, I love him for all his flaws, but you're not wrong about him being annoying sometimes.  I remember I didn't like him until "The Pack", when he got turned into a hyena I was like "I miss regular Xander".  I think Buffy and Xander have chemistry, but more as siblings/friends than lovers.  I think Joss Whedon realised that, because he never made them an official couple like he intended.  As far as I know, it was always supposed to be Joe Normal ends up with Superwoman (like in the movie) but audiences loved Angel so much that the story was changed.  How can you not love early Cordelia, she's an absolute comedy legend??     Paul    730  13:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the lesson behind that is "if you drink, you will be raped and beheaded by a giant insect". Not exactly pro-alcohol.  "Degenerated into an airhead"??? Explain please.  Anya was initially quite socially aware and hostile, but then in season 5, she was more socially uncomfortable and well-meaning.  Her role as the "new Cordelia" stemmned from ignorance rather than true bitchiness.  And she was never stupid, neither was Cordelia. I can forgive the inconsistencies with her character because they were learning as they went; Anya was never intended to become a main character, Emma Caulfield just impressed them so much.  They've got her sussed by season 5, and from then on she's just brilliant.  Lol, if you hate the season 1 menu, wait until season 2, you have to sit through a 10 second CGI cutscene to get from page to another (assuming you have the same DVDs as me).  I dislike Xander in the season 3 episode "Revelations", that's when he finds out Angel is alive and goes into jealousy overdrive.  Buffy empathises with Cordelia because she used to be so similar to her, that's why she's more forgiving of her than Willow and Xander.  I just love Cordelia, she totally owns the room.  People say she's a bitch but more often than not she's speaking the truth.  I love her in the season 1 finale.  Oh, and to reply to your comment about Willow not being annoying, I think Alyson Hannigan runs a fine line between cute and annoying sometimes.  She usually makes it work, but sometimes I just want to slap her, especially in the early seasons.  She's so bloody weak in the early seasons, look out for "Halloween" in season 2, that's when she starts to grow a pair.
 * P.S., Moloch was messing up the computer systems remember? You saw people reacting to misinformation on their computers, maybe he changed the date on Buffy's file? :P Or maybe the writers just hadn't figured out her exact age yet.  Her canon birth date is 1981.     Paul    730  14:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, they just hadn't pefected the character yet. The episode "Selfless" in season 7 (which is one my favourite eps) shows that Anya was always socially inept, even as a human, and it didn't stem from "I'm a demon in a human world" like the Scoobies assumed. I think it's acted in a very endearing way, I love the irony of a 1000 year old ex demon mass murderer, who acts and dresses like housewife from the 1950s. It's just so Buffy. :) I know what you mean about the necklace, I'm trying to think of another example of something like that but one won't come to me... The "I have no breath" thing has been debated furiously amongst Buffy fans for years, and it's something that annoyed me. The generally accepted explanation is that, while vampires don't need to breathe, the process itself produces some kind of substance that is harmful or ineffective to humans.  So when Angel said that, he basically meant that he can't produce oxygen.  It's total fanwank, but whatever.  Who cares about necklaces an CPR science anyway?  "Prophecy Girl" is a great episode!  I love how Buffy's reaction to her death is just so immature and realistic, I think that scene is my favourite moment in season one.  I love it when she starts screaming and throwing books at Giles.     Paul    730  18:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, like I said, Anya was basically written around Emma Caulfield, she's so talented. The break-up... wasn't my favourite plot twist but it's not bad.  It was chance to explore how Xander views marriage, he's obviously been damaged by his own parents.  He just wasn't ready for marriage at that point in his life, IMO.  Also, if we're to believe that the fake visions he was shown were created by his own subconscious fears, then he's still hung up on Buffy; in the fake future, it's implied his marriage to Anya fell apart because Buffy died and Xander never got over it.  Buffy is, was, and always will be, the love of Xander's life.
 * Duh, I failed chemistry in school and this is me showing my ignorance. I know we produce carbon dioxide but I kinda thought that had oxygen in it?  Like one carbon and two oxygens?  No?  Whatever, in that case, vampires produce toxic stuff that would harm Buffy if he gave her mouth to mouth.  We don't know what happens in that freaky undead physiology of his.
 * Buffy's theme music playing as she power walks to the library is horrendously cheesy and thankfully never happened again. I'm torn between cringing at it and enjoying it for it's shamelesss cheesiness.
 * I dislike the idea Xander and Willow getting together. They work better as friends and slapping them together would just ruin that (Friends much?).  I tend to prefer platonic relationships in fiction, like I said, I'm not sure how I feel about the potential Dawn/Xander hook up in the comics right now.  I hate Xander and Willow's affair in season 3, it felt like such a forced way of getting Cordelia out of the picture so she could appear in Angel.  You'd gotten over that whole 'ship in season 2 and dredging it back up was just.. urgh.  Although I love Willow's reaction to when Xander loses his virginity to Faith - she takes it in stride and then cries alone in the toilets - that was really sad.     Paul    730  19:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean, but it's like, against the laws of natures for two people to be happy together in the Buffyverse. They still have some nice moments in season seven, and never really stop loving each other.  I guess it gave them something else to talk about besides how much they love each other?  Plus, it allows for that really good Anya episode "Selfless", which is all about her realising she always defines herself by other people, and that she should find her own place in the world (which she does, in the penultimate episode, when she decides she wants to keep fighting for the humans).
 * Okay, you're totally ruining the suspension of disbelief here! Let's say, that in the wacky supernatural world of the Buffyverse, mouth-to-mouth is like an exchange of life force, and vampires can't do it because they have no lifeforce to give.  How's that? :P  Let's move on, where are you in season 2?
 * Dawn was recently turned into a centaur by a mystical STD. Anyway, Xander is supporting her through the ordeal and says that she looks amazing as a centaur.   Then, when they're escaping from these demon thing, Dawn is like "you're going have to... ride me".  (It's really not as bad as I'm making it sound, it's a comedy subplot).  The fandom is rife with Dawnder shipping now but I'm not so sure I even believe that's what's being set up, or how I'd feel about it.  I guess I trust Joss to do what's right for the characters.  Oh, and Xander is probably like 6 or 7 years older than Dawn.     Paul    730  12:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh, developing a little crush on Dawntaur are we? :P "What's My Line" is pretty good, Bianca Lawson (Kendra) is a terrible actress but very amusing to watch for some reason.  She's very quotable.
 * I'm not sure whether to pick up Smallville season five next time I'm in town, or give it a break for a while. I kind of want to watch Angel season 4, but because I have unwatched Smallville sitting there, I end up watching that instead.  I'm nearly finished season four, I'm in the middle of the Lex body split episode, I had to switch it off the other day because I was so tired.  Oh, I also bought Superman for All Seasons the other day, it was pretty good but I think it was mostly the artwork that I liked.  I love Tim Sale.  It was all about a young Superman wondering whether he belongs in Smallville or Metropolis, with narration from Jonathan, Lois, Lex, and Lana.     Paul    730  20:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll tell you when I watch the end of it tonight. If you're looking for a Batman book, get The Long Halloween, and it's sequel.  I have Long Halloween but I haven't read it yet.  Lol, yeah, Dawn is totally the runner up prize.  It's still not set in stone that they'll hook up, Xander's last girlfriend (a Slayer named Renee) only recently died so it might be kind of soon. (Some Xander/Renee panels if you're interested.)  And Dawn is Buffy's real sister!  That's like saying adopted people aren't really part of the family!     Paul    730  20:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember Halloween Nightdance and H30! I'm going to keep plugging those until you buy them because they're so good.  Next on the list is The First Death of Laurie Strode and The Diary of Judith Myers (a Sam-style prose download).  I haven't got the Nightdance TPB yet because Forbidden Planet don't stock it, I might ask them to order it and if that doesn't happen, I'll look into buying it online (I never shop online).
 * I finished "Onyx", it was great for the reasons you described. One of my concerns is, because Lex is such a sympathetic character, how convincing will his evolution into the villain he becomes be?  Does he ever actually become "Evil Lex" from that episode?  Oh, and I didn't like the line "I am the villain of the piece".  I thought Lex's whole MO was that he was a wannabe hero and Superman stood in the way of that?
 * What did you think of that Buffy preview I linked? I forgot there was a Superman reference in it, I meant to show you that ages ago because I thought it was hilarious.  And Dawn does have Buffy's blood, the exact same.  That was why Buffy could die in her place in "The Gift".  (I'm just teasing, I know what you mean.)     Paul    730  21:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Break 1

 * Superman for All Seasons shows the "wannabe hero" side of Lex. He has these robot things patrolling the city doing heroic deeds and Superman is like "Oh please, get out of the way so I can do my job."  Lois comments that Lex's heroics feel clinical and impersonal compared to Superman; "I'm looking for sexy and he's giving me laundry detergent.  I'll wind up on page 9."  I thought Evil Lex was a glimpse of what he'd become in later seasons, but he never becomes that "pure evil"?  The "he's thought about it" line was funny, and who wouldn't want to kill Lana, let's face it?  ;)
 * I loved the prom episode, btw. It was really funny (Martha dancing in the kitchen) and Dawn Stiles was such a silly character.  Lana is always cool when she's possessed by something else, which makes me think it's her writing that annoys, not the actress.  I'm glad Clark and Lana got to dance, the idea of Clark Kent and Lana Lang not dancing together at their senior prom is just sacrelige to the Superman mythos.  What was your prom like?  I barely remember mine, I was completely drunk.  They served us free wine, what did they expect? :D
 * Yeah, that's Andrew. His likeness is not the best in the comics, probably because Tom Lenk doesn't have any distinctive features (compared to Geller's nose or Hannigans eyes).  Dawn has a mystical STD that causes her to morph into mythical creatures like giants and centaurs.  There's a funny Godzilla spoof in that story where the Scoobies go to Tokyo and Dawn fights a mecha version of herself which spouts lines like "I am Dawn Summers.  I am a teenage girl.  I like to cry and let boys take advantage of my weak emotional state"..  Ludicrous, but hilarious.  "Wolves at the Gate" has been the best Buffy Season Eight story so far.  That's the one where Buffy sleeps with a girl, Renee dies, the Scoobs team up with Dracula, it's just classic.     Paul    730  22:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you not going to get Buffy season 3 soon then? They make fun of chubby Nicolas Brendon in the comics, there's a scene where Dracula is like "You look great, you've lost so much weight!" Lol.    Paul    730  23:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Since it's the "Appearances" section, wouldn't some plot info with a citation to the relevant comics # be enough? Even if he never appeared on panel, I'd say it's important to note his presence as an unseen character before being personified as Lionel in the show.  Btw, thought I'd send this interview with Allison Mack your way in case there's anything there that's useable for an article.     Paul    730  01:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, then all I can say is source what you can and purge what you can't. It's better to delete it than have OR in the article.  Maybe move the deleted stuff to the talk page with a request that someone with the back issues can provide a citation?  Maybe leave a comment on the Superman project page as well?  You never know, some geek out there might be able to help.  Sorry, that's the best solution can I think of.    Paul    730  01:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it looks great, bar the tiny reception section, but what can you do? Birthright is amazing by the way, adapting it would be the only reason to retell the origin story on film in my view. Alientraveller (talk) 16:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Aw, I'm glad you enjoyed it, that's one of my favourites too. What bits in it did you like? My favourite scene in it might be the final scene where Cordelia tells Harmony where to go, such a massive moment for the character. Wow, you're fairly getting through those Buffy eps. Did you like the scene in "Innocence" where Buffy kills the Judge? That's one of my favourite Buffy (the character) moments in the whole series.  Paul    730  23:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Giles always treats Xander like crap, I think he's just irritated by him. And he was probably a bit put out that Buffy and Jenny, his kinda-daughter and girlfriend, were hitting on Xander.  Lol, I love the idea of Buffy walking through the school corridors in nothing but that coat, she's such a tart.  What's the problem with using Brian Thompson again?  Smaville has Jimmy Oslen and Eric Summers looking identical, at least the Judge had make-up.  There's loads of re-used actors in Buffy and Angel, too many to list.  I never notice the stunt doubles, people always moan about them but I never pick up on it unless I'm actively trying to pick them out.  And the fights scenes rule!  It's far more interesting than watching Clark on the floor moaning in Kryptonite-induced agony every episode.  (I'm getting defensive again.)     Paul    730  00:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I tend not to notice reused actors, and then when I'm reading about the show later I'm like "oh, cool, they're the same person". The werewolf hunter in "Phases" reappears as a major villain in Angel (Can't spell his name, time travelling demon, sent Connor to hell).  My friend always complains about the stunt doubles.  He says that they usually have a square off with the actors, then a few minutes of hair swooshing about during the fight, then back to the actors for a quick one-liner.  Whatever, it doesn't bother me.  Btw, clear something up for me in Smallville; I thought I saw Chloe get memory-wiped by that guy in "Blank", but then later in that episode she's making "I know your secret" innuendos at Clark again. Did she lose her memory (that would be so cheap) or am I just seeing things.  I guess the next episode with clear it up, just thought I'd ask cause it confused me.     Paul    730  01:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There's loads of Buffy actors in Smallville; the guy you mentioned, the bee girl (played April the robot), the fat girl (played Tara's cousin), the Lex-stalker with the invisible brother (played a precog girl). Smallville has loads of familiar faces, even more than Charmed.  If she remembered his secret anyway, then what was the point (from a writing perspective) of wiping her memory of him saving her.  That was just weird and confusing.  Was it so Clark wouldn't know that Chloe knows?  "Passions" is a great episode, very emotional and it totally set a trend for Buffy (significant and popular characters will die horribly at their happiest moment).  Did you know they were going to have Angelus kill Oz instead, but fans liked him so Jenny drew the short straw?  Wow, imagine how different the show would have been without Oz.  I agree with you about "Killed by Death", it is boring.  The demon is cool but the whole episode is just too gloomy.  Cordelia is great in it though!  Totally an active and helpful member of the Scoobies.  Plus she says one of my favourite lines, "Tact is just not saying true stuff.  I'll pass."  Lol.    Paul    730  01:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think killing Oz may have been a way to hurt Willow, because when Willow is in pain, the audience is in pain. Plus it would have been an easy get-out-jail-free card if the Oz character wasn't working at that point.  You say that Willow finding Oz's body would be insignificant, but I think it would be horrific because it's Willow.  Remember the scene in "Prophecy Girl" where she and Cordy find the dead students?  I find that scene emotional, and they were just background characters, it's because Alyson Hannigan is so sympathetic.  But yes, you're completely right that killing Jenny was the way to go.  I love the way it happened, snapping her neck was just so quick and brutal.
 * I like "I Only Have Eyes For You", I think it's quite emotional near the end. The fact that Buffy is the who gets possessed by the killer rather than Angelus, shows how she blames herself for killing her lover and releasing Angelus.  There's some great acting in that scene too.  And I like the subtle B-story about Giles being in denial about Jenny's death.  If you've not been liking these latter season 2 episodes, I doubt you'll like "Go Fish", that's one of the less popular episodes.  I don't really mind it tbh, it's just harmless monster-of-the-week filler with no relevance to the overall story.  Sheriff Brackett from Halloween is in it.
 * Have you seen all of Freddy's Nightmares? I watched the pilot and found it... okay.  If those DVDs were cheap enough I might pick them up.     Paul    730  14:52, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Season 2 is the most hit-and-miss season; it has one of the best Big Bads but it still hasn't outgrown the monster-of-the-week formula. Some episodes, like "Killed by Death" and "Go Fish" are pretty boring (and "Bad Eggs" is just plain awful, I'm surprised you didn't comment on that), but I think you're being too hard on "IOHEFY".  Yeah, Principal Synder is a pretty horrible character but he is meant to be.  He isn't aware of everything that goes on, just that something is going on.  There's a funny scene in season 3 where he interrupts the Scoobies confronting the Mayor and fighting spider demons, and he says "Why couldn't you be dealing drugs like normal people?"  Synder reminds me of the Sheriff in Smallville, although I actually kind of like her.  Season 2 has some of the best moments in the series (Angel turning evil, and the classic finale) but Season 3 is more consistantly better quality.  Season 4 is an awkward season, it takes a while to adjust to the post-high school status quo.  Season 5 is just... brilliant.
 * I liked what I saw of the Friday the 13th TV series, I'd probably buy both of them if they were cheap enough.    Paul    730  19:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Bad Eggs" is one of my least favourite episodes of the whole show, it's always such a speed bump when I'm watching season 2. Synder is the Mayor's lackey, he has enough knowledge of the Hellmouth to cover up the strange incidents but he doesn't know the Mayor is evil, and doesn't have any real agenda other than being principal.  "Becoming, Part Two" is easily one of the best episodes in the whole show.  I love the scene where Buffy comes out to her mother, and the moment where she basically tells her to get a grip and see the truth.  I also love the glimpse we see of the power Willow is harbouring within her, where she is briefly taken over by the magic.  Buffy "killing" Angel is probably her greatest moment of all time, moreso even than her death in "The Gift" because part of that was selfishly motivated.  Clark may be a hero, but would he be strong enough to run a broadsword through Lana and send her to hell if the whole world depended on it?  Buffy season three has kind of a slow start (as do all Buffy seasons) but once Faith is introduced it begins to heat up.  I'm on the penultimate season 4 Smallville episode right now (it's pretty creepy) and I'm looking forward to the finale.  Except I know it'll be a cliffhanger and I'll have to shell out £20 for season 5 to find out what happens! ;)    Paul    730  22:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a common theme in Doctor Who as well, the Doctor refuses to kill innocent people for the greater good. Buffy herself refuses to kill Dawn in season five, and kills herself instead.  That was a brilliant moment, but I don't think it was as heroic as killing Angel was because it took less strength.  I'm not saying that I think less of the Doctor and Superman for not killing people, I don't, but I think the fact that Buffy sacrificed the love of her life (and a part of herself in the process) for the greater good was the most noble thing she's ever done, and I admire her for that.  Btw, this message was originally a lot longer and included quotes from certains episodes where Buffy discusses what killing Angel meant to her, but I ended up confusing myself because I wasn't sure what point I was trying to make.  I like this fansite, it explores the moral ambiguities in the Buffyverse, such as killing creatures who are/used to be friends.     Paul    730  23:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Watched "Commencement" and you're right, I did like it. There was total tension throughout the episode because of the upcomming meteor shower.  At first I found the ticking clock a bit silly but it became very effective when there there was only a few minutes left.  The meteor shower was pretty exciting although I had to groan at the superhero cliche "dumb kid walking into danger while parent screams in background".  Ah well.  I'm not sure I like these cliffhanger finales though, they're not very satisfying.  It was cool to see Lex unleash his inner villain under pressure, manipulating Lana and abusing Chloe.     Paul    730  01:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Another Smallville interview, this time with the Doomsday and Tess Mercer actors. Enjoy.     Paul    730  20:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Would forums be an okay source if we're quoting a notable person? I mean, it is straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, much like a Q&A which you told me were acceptable.  The reason I ask is I want to add this quote from comics writer Stefan Hutchinson to the Michael Myers article.     Paul    730  22:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a forum (The Official Halloween Message Board) which he contributes to regularly along with other staff members of the Halloween comics (who are very active on the web, the excellent Halloween comics tie-in website is maintained by them). I'm certain it's him if that's the problem; he posts updates and information about the comics series all the time.     Paul    730  00:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Meh. It's not really worth searching for a third-party source, I just liked the specific wording of that post, the part about Michael being "simplified" across the sequels (was going to put it in a quote box). Not sure how I could prove his identity but I am positive it's him (I think he's an admin or whatever they're called on that forum). If you feel so strongly about it I'll not bother adding it. How are you btw, started watching Buffy season three yet? I've been meaning to buy Smallville season 5, I kind of miss having new episodes sitting there whenever I want them (Been meaning to slap your back for those character articles, btw, you've really been cranking them out).  Paul    730  00:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a couple of sources like that in the Buffy articles that I'll have to weed out (the one about Faith's last name IIRC). Seems like a waste of good info. :( Of those films you list, I've only seen Daylight, which I remember liking.  The only criticism I can think of with the Smallville articles are the inconsistencies of the main images; you've got screenshots, promo pics, head shots, and full-body shots.  It's certainly not a major concern, but irritating to a superficial person like myself.  I know you're looking for a new Clark picture.  Also, no Lois article?  I'd figure there'd be loads of third party reactions to a new incarnation of such a famous character.     Paul    730  01:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, "crap". Because Clark is such a fashion icon.  I like the Lex image, the Lionel one could be cropped a little more.  That Chloe image you linked is better, what made you choose the full-body one?  No, I'm not a martial arts movie fan, although I have to say I've never really sat and watched one so maybe I am and I don't know it.  Doubt it though.  Speaking of recent DVD purchases, I finally saw Saw II the other day and enjoyed it despite the fact that I knew the big twist.  My boss says he'll lend me the other sequels at some point.  I also recently bought Short Circuit 2 (childhood favourite).     Paul    730  01:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Sure, kidnap the humans... destroy the machines!" Lol, that scene is a favourite of mine too.  Always loved Johnny's "I Need a Hero" rampage through the city.  I was hoping you'd like them since you seem to like cheesy 80s cult movies.  I mentioned to a couple of people that I bought the DVD, and they gave me a funny look.  Whatever, I love those movies (even added Johnny to the favourite characters list on my user page).  I heard they want to remake the first one with updated tech for Johnny 5... urgh, no thank you.  I enjoy the Saw movies but I wouldn't call myself a fan.  They're always worth a watch, but the whole gorno genre isn't really my thing.     Paul    730  03:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I haven't even heard of those movies (except Monster Squad, which I remember you showing me a trailer of). Killer Klowns...?? Yeah, Short Circuit is so shamelessly 80s that I can't imagine how they would bring it into the 21st century without losing all of it's charm. I haven't seen Hostel and have no desire whatsoever to. Like I said, I'm not a fan of gorno. Cheesy comic book violence and death is fine, watching people be slowly tortured and mutilated is just unpleasant. The Saw movies have a bit of psychology to them (the whole "how much do you value your life and what are you willing to do to keep it" thing) and are well-written enough to be entertaining. Hostel seems to consist only of people getting tortured just so Eli Roth can feel like he's making the next Texas Chainsaw. I'm surprised you don't like Hostel actually? Strange for you to not like a horror movie.  Paul    730  04:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Break 2

 * *Suddenly terrified as to how Bignole knows the realistic effect of a blowtorch to the face* Nope, never heard of KKfOS at all. It looks fucking awful but who am I to judge your love of weird clown aliens.  What horror movies do you not like/respect (major ones, not ones I've never heard of).  I liked Cabin Fever when I first saw it but thought it was nothing memorable.  I remember finding Roth somewhat irritating on the DVD, he did like four commentaries and phoned his parents during one of them so they could talk about the movie.  I mean, it's great that he likes horror and is proud of his work, but come on.  Also, I don't agree with his opinions on so-called "castrated horror"; I happened to like and respect movies like Scream, Last Summer, and H20.  The man just comes across as a bit of a desperate wannabe IMO, and he doesn't seem to have contributed anything particularly original or memorable to the horror genre.  Saw FTW. ;)    Paul    730  13:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And how does Hostel detract from your terrifyingly accurate description of blowtorch-face melting physics? :P I've not seen the film, is it really as gruesome as they make out? I remember one of my old teachers, who was a big horror buff, actually admitted to me that he was too afraid to see the movie based on the reviews it got.  I was kinda nervous before watchig Saw (and it's sequel) but they weren't too bad.  The only part that got me was when the guy had to try and cut out his own eye, because I'm funny about eyes.  I'm not itching to see Killer Klowns but I have to respect it's shameless title, it's okay to be a B-movie so long as you know you're a B-movie.  Speaking of other horrors I haven't seen, are the Chucky movies any good?  I've never seen them but I've heard bad things.  Also, how about Prom Night?  It's one of the only JLC slasher flicks I haven't seen (Terror Train was shite).     Paul    730  13:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, lovely. I tell you I have a funny thing about eyeballs and you proceed to talk about bursting eye pus. ;) I'm sure I could handle Hostel, but the premise just doesn't interest me all that much.  I'll probably watch it eventually out of morbid curiosity.  Wasn't the original Child's Play more of a mystery, where the boy might have been the killer, and Chucky wasn't revealed until the end?  I'm surprised you're being so harah on the sequels, they don't seem any dafter than those in other series (considering).  Isn't Bride pretty popular?  My friend is a total Chucky fangirl, she has all the dolls in her room.  Hellraiser and Chucky are two series I'm not too familiar with.  (Here's another Smallville interview from Newsarama, btw.)     Paul    730  10:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What was wrong with Seed? I know the basic plot.  Lol, why did your mother throw your doll away?  Did she think it would be a bad influence on you or something?  Seems a little extreme (and it obviously didn't work, judging from what a horror fanboy you are now).  I've seen the first Hellraiser and thought it was all right.  Never got around to watching the sequels.  How good is the continuity in the series?  Are there any films that you wish just never happened, Resurrection-style?  I'd like to see the sequels eventually, if only to see more of Pinhead since he wasn't in the first one much.     Paul    730  12:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, you're not the only one. My mum used to worry about me when I was going through my major obsession with Halloween.  She still bought me the movies though, she's pretty laid back like that.  I remember her buying me Evil Dead and telling me I'd need Pampers to watch it, it was so scary.  Talk about exaggeration, I wasn't frightened at all by Evil Dead (or the Exorcist, which was another one she thought would be too much for me to handle).  Wow, your mother watches people get killed for fun?  That seems so alien to someone where we don't have the death sentence, I didn't even know you could do that.
 * There's a DVD set of just the first three Hellraisers so I might pick that up one day. Bloodline is set in space?  Weird, is it straight-faced or a Jason X-style comedy?  Btw, I picked up Smallville season five today but I'm not sure when I'll start watching it because I picked up some South Park boxsets as well.  I also bought Halloween: 25 of Terror, and got the comic Halloween: Autopsis (by my fave, Stef Hutchinson) inside it.  It was brilliant, it had some great nods to Halloween H30 (or vice versa, since H30 was written later) and was a really dark, genuinely scary story.  It focuses a lot on how Michael is an artist, I absolutely love the characterization he recieves in these comics despite so little panel-time.     Paul    730  17:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh right, I had a picture of a group of people showing up with popcorn and laughing while some poor fucker gets electrocuted. :P Do you like Bloodline? It sounds pretty good.  Eh... Autopsis is "pretty good"?  It's better than that!  I used to be such a loyal fan of the Halloween series but all the retcons and silly plot twists made me kind of jaded.  These comics have really rejuavenated my interest in the series; they've proven that John Carpenter was wrong when he said that there was no story left in Michael Myers after the first film.  I find it interesting that the comic medium - which is too often dismissed as childish or simplistic - has provided far better quality stories than the film sequels, which were destroyed by lazy, talentless, or uninterested directors, greed, and studio interference.  You like Harry Potter?  I liked the books but never got into the movies.  Haven't read the last few books, but I'd like to one day.     Paul    730  17:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've noticed your Oz-like attitude; Smallville is the only thing you seem to be really enthusiastic about. I'm the opposite, I usually either love something or hate it with a passion.  I love HII and H20 (especially H20) but they're flawed films and neither really did anything interesting with Michael himself.  HII is a fairly routine slasher flick with boring faceless characters and a robotic Michael.  H20 is a fantastic character arc for Laurie, but Michael himself isn't scary anymore.  He's not a malevolent force like he was in the first movie, he's just a guy in mask.  JLC makes that film with her performance, everything else is just mediocre.  Also, HII and H20 are both derivative of other films of their era, they feel like F13 and Scream movies, respectfully (not necessarily a bad thing, but noticeable).  To me, the comics are the only thing which have not only captured the original character of Michael, but actually expanded on and improved him (specifically his recently-introduced habit of sending his victims morbid drawings  )     Paul    730  19:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)::
 * He was just a man in a mask in the first one as well, it was just portrayed in a scarier way. In H20, he's fully-lit, with his eyes in plain sight and he just looks stupid.  The last act of the movie wasn't dark enough lighting-wise IMO.  22:16, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea if there's little chance of finding any sources, I have no idea how much attention that series recieves in the media or by the Smallville makers. I've not even bothered watching it personally, is it worth my time? Btw, in the Chloe article, are you going to keep Comic books separate from Literature?  Paul    730  02:46, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You never watched them? That's wierd, you being a die-hard Smallville fan.  Aren't they on the DVDs somewhere?  Isn't there a cartoon based on Kara as well, I'm sure I saw that advertised on some website.  Btw, quick question, if I wanted to view DVDs on my laptop and save good quality images from them, what would I need to do that?  Is there something I can download?  (I'm totally ignorant about anything remotely technical).     Paul    730  05:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They're still canon to the show, aren't they? You should watch them out of loyalty if nothing else.  I dislike Angel: After the Fall, but it's canon, and so I subject myself to it on a monthly basis.
 * I'm embarrassed at how computer illiterate I am, but how do I watch DVDs on Windows Media Player? It's on my desktop, but when I put a DVD in nothing happens.  I've tried messing about with it, but it all seems to be about downloading music, I can't seem to find any option for watching DVDs... remember that you're talking to the guy that broke his e-mail over a year ago and hasn't been able to get into it since, Windows is like Skynet to me.     Paul    730  12:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I found the DVD option on Windows Media Player, but apparently I don't have a "DVD decoder" so it didn't work. Never mind, I downloaded VLC and that's working fine, so that'll do for now (although I know what you meant about the pausing).  Thanks for all your help, mate. :)    Paul    730  22:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you make of this discussion about the Angel article? I'm not too sure what to make of it, but I can see how people might find the current title odd.     Paul    730  21:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks's for that detailed explantion. :) I just hope this doesn't turn into another petty "Lehane" argument. Article titles always seem to be such a point of contention on Wikipedia.     Paul    730  23:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I've only seen the first three Harry Potter movies and didn't like them. It felt like they were directly adapting scenes from the books, but not working them into a cohesive story. They just seemed to jump from one scene to the other, whereas in the books, everything flowed really well. I heard the later films do a better job of telling the story and not just adapting scenes. Was that the first time you've seen them? Did you like David Tennant in... Goblet, I think? Third season of what... Buffy? I watched the first couple episodes of Smallville season five, they were okay. Looking forward to the Aquaman episode.  Paul    730  23:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is Barty in the movie quite a bit? I know Clark and Lionel end up being buddies in the show, Clark mourns him and everything.  Oh yeah, I forgot about James Marsters.  I'm kinda looking forward to seeing him, but I'm not sure if I'll like him as anything other than Spike.  I hated him in Torchwood, but that was probably more to do with the crappy writing than anything else and the fact that they were ripping off Spike's attitute.  I'll look out for those episodes.  So did you say you'd started watching Buffy season 3?    Paul    730  23:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The music was in the episode, and you're right, the whole thing was ridiculous and cringeworthy. It feels like some horrible fan fiction where two characters just randomly start getting off for no reason.  Their "relationship" isn't all that developed, the character (John Hart is his name) appears in only 2 episodes.  In the first, he's kind of a villain, taking down the TW team for his own reasons (which I forget).  In the season finale, he shows up again as a minion of the Big Bad, and by then he's decided that he's actually a misunderstood good guy who loves Jack and is seeking redemption.  It's like they've taken Spike's entire arc from Buffy and crammed it into 2 episodes.  The episodes themselves were actually quite good, it just annoyed me that they were trying to copy Spike and doing it so poorly.  I'd quite like John to join TW in one of the upcoming seasons if only to develop the character a little.  You make Braniac sound pretty good, I'm looking forward to him.  Is he still kicking about in season 8 or have they ended his character?  Also, are you sure that 8 will be the last season?  I keep hearing how the series has had a new lease of life.     Paul    730  01:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't have a problem with him having "follies" on TW or being a morally ambiguous character, it was just the way they changed him over 2 episodes. Spike took literally years to earn his redemption on Buffy, culminating in him becoming a Champion to rival Angel. His arc on TW felt rushed and lazy. I'm not worried about that happening in Smallville, jeez if any show knows how to be patient it's Smallville. Yeah, I noticed the shittith. I'm keeping out of it for now because I'm not entirely decided on where I stand, but your argument is pretty strong. I feel kind of guilty for always dragging you into these silly Buffy debates, if ever you don't want to get involved, just say so. :P   Paul    730  02:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought you meant "follies" as in switching back and forth between hero and villain, whereas Braniac is a straight villian. Yeah, I heard Brainiac is quite different from Spike so that's good.  Isn't Clark more or less in his Superman status quo now anyway?  Working at the Planet, Lois the reporter, Jimmy Olsen, etc (where's Perry?).  Do you think they'll bother giving him the glasses, or will Smallville just ignore that part of the mythology?  Who's going to run the Kent farm if Clark's in Metropolis and Martha's away being a senator?     Paul    730  02:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought since this was theoretically the last season, Clark was basically Superman now, just without the actual name and costume. To a casual observer, it pretty much seems like he's grown up, but I guess he still has a way to go?  And I meant who's going to run the farm when Clark is Superman and living in Met, since Jonathan and Martha are gone now, but I guess you answered that question.     Paul    730  14:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks excellent, and it's nice to see Smallvilles best character get an article that does her justice. I'm not sure about some of the categories though, "fictional sidekicks"?  You've done some really great work with these Smallville character articles.  I know they're not finished, and you won't be happy with them till they're perfect, but you still deserve this.     Paul    730  22:12, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * *Tried to give you a Superman barnstar but it fucked up the coding on your page. Check the history...*

Break 3
I didn't think you would have been the one who added those categories. Urgh, "sidekick". Condescending much? Superman and his loyal sidekick, Empath Girl! :( Do you think Chloe will survive Smallville? She's really not a necessary part of the Superman mythos, what with Lois being around, and her death would be a brilliant kick in the nuts for a final season since she's basically the Cordelia of the show (Cordelia in Angel, not Buffy, in other words the heart of the show and it's hero).  Back to the article, I'm not sure about the "DC" category.  It was the "comics" part that threw me off, but I guess that's the name of the company regardless of the actual media?  DC is still involved in the making of Smallville...  I'm leaning towards re-adding them now that you bring it up.     Paul    730  22:47, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd quite like her to die, death of a beloved character is usually great TV. So long as it's done in a respectful, appropiate way then I'd be all for it.  It's DC Comics, so should we re-add it?  Also, I'd like to contest you changing Televsion to Smallville in the Clark article, the title Smallville applies to the spin-off crap as well, so I think we should be specific about the actual medium.     Paul    730  00:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point, about the fake deaths. Her supposed death in season 3 barely registered with me because I knew it was a fake-out.  Isn't she immortal or something anyway?  Oh well, I don't mind her not-dying.  I'll re-add the cats.  And even though the spin-offs have subtitles, they're still part of the Smallville franchise.  It's all Smallville (hence the title of the article), so "Television" seem more specific and accurate IMO.     Paul    730  00:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In cases where characters don't have a lit section, using the TV title would be pointless because they haven't appeared in other media (or the article doesn't cover that yet, whatever). However, in cases where characters have appeared in multiple mediums, titling the section under that medium seems better.  All of the characters' appearances are in Smallville because they're Smallville characters, that section covers the Smallville TV series, so Television seems a better title.  Btw, should Chloe and Lionel be categorised as Category:DC Comics characters or Category:DC Comics characters in other media, since they are original creations and not adaptations?     Paul    730  00:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll just stick them under DC Comics characters; like you say, Chloe appears in Smallville comics, and "Lex's Father" appears in the canon (or whatever passes for canon in the crazy world of Final Infinite Ultimate Reboot Crisis DC continuity) which is good enough for me.  Watched anymore of Buffy?  I just watched "Hidden" and found it surprisingly good, was Jor-El always such a see-you-next-Tuesday in the comics?     Paul    730  02:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was being polite. I liked Glover as Jor-El, he totally shows the other actors how it's done.  Lex is getting on my tits, all his scenes with Lana are really dragging him down.  What did you make of "Dead Man's Party", that's an episode that's often unpopular with fans because they don't like how the Scoobies and Joyce are treating Buffy.  I find their reactions quite realistic, but I'm firmly on Buffy's side because I know what she went through with Angel.  Plus Giles' line in the car "Do you like my mask?  Isn't it pretty, it raises the dead!  Americans!" is classic.     Paul    730  03:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

That's actually a pretty fair explanation; it's Jor-El's head talking but not his heart, that makes sense. I remember you telling me that Lana becomes a borderline villain during her relationship with Lex, and you weren't fond of her at that point. Why didn't you care for "Dead Man's Party"? It's not my favourite episode by any means, but I enjoy any episode where the Scoobies are in conflict with each other. I like it when Willow basically says to Buffy that everything isn't about her, and that she's going through stuff of her own. A lot of Willow's arc this season is realising that she can't rely on Buffy and Xander; they both let her down and kind of reject her in favour of Faith. In season four, she's a lot more independant, and actually says to Buffy "I'm not your sidekick". I'm proud of Willow for stepping out from under Buffy's shadow; in the pilot, she's all eager to be a "Slayerette", and in later seasons she proves herself to be far more powerful than Buffy. One of my favourite moments is when she decides to take down Glory (Buffy: Even I'm not a match for her. Willow: But maybe I am!). Look forward to the episode "Choices" in latter season three, it's a pretty major turning point for Willow's character, albeit in a subtle way.  Paul    730  03:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Xander/Willow affair was horribly contrived and I think it was just a way to break up Xander and Cordelia, so Cordy could move over to Angel. Which is awful, because Cordelia is bascially AWOL for the rest of the season, and all of the brilliant development she went through in season 2 goes out the window until Angel season 1.  I wouldn't say that Willow cheating on Oz is that out of character; Willow is a pretty weak person when it comes to temptation, which we see later on when she becomes a magic addict.  I mean, she mind-raped Tara in season six without remorse, so a little kiss doesn't seem that bad in retrospect.  Wander aside, what did you think of "Homecoming"?  That's one of my favourite episodes from season three, because I love the relationship between Buffy and Cordelia.  I love it when Cordelia completely puts Lyle in his place (worst...character... ever...).  Oh, and Kulak of the Miquot Clan is one of the coolest demons (the yellow guy).  You'll be close or past "Lover's Walk" now, that's one of the best Spike episodes in the show.     Paul    730  16:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, yeah, it's more Londony. I think that's Tony Head's normal speaking voice.  Apparently, he coached James Marsters with Spike's accent because in real life he sounds more like Spike than Giles.  That's why Spike's accent kind of deteriorates after Giles leaves the show, because Head wasn't there to teach him how to say his lines.  Btw, a line from that episode recently resurfaced in the comics; Buffy is in the future and she's driving a flying car (badly), prompting Fray to cry out "Summers, you drive like a spaz!"  Lol.      Paul    730  16:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking how creepy James Marsters real accent is while watching "Aqua". It sounds weird and fake, even though I know that's how he actually speaks.  "Aqua" was okay, not as good as Flash's episode.  AC was kind of annoying with his stupid surfer hippie attitude.  I'm about to watch the vampire episode, which I've been looking forward to.     Paul    730  17:46, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Green Arrow really seems to be the breakout star of Smallville, he's such a C-lister, it's nice to see him getting a chance in the spotlight. Was "Thirst" the worst episode of the season, or the seasons, not sure if you made a typo there.  It wasn't that bad, the vampire lore sucked... I was disappointed that they went for the meteor freak technobabble rather than making them real vampires.  If witches are real, why not vamps?  That bird out of Star Wars was good as the bitchy Daily Planet lady.     Paul    730  19:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Thought you knew. It's interesting how she's summoned to curse Xander, the man she eventually falls in love with. "The Wish" is a great episode, the first appearance of not only Anya but also Vamp Willow! "Bored now..." And the ending is totally sad, Buffy stakes Xander!  Paul    730  01:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, but Xander's death gets to me because Buffy is so cold when she does it. She just kills someone who, in another timeline, is her best friend and she doesn't know.  It's the look on her face.  That, and the way that she walks through Angel's ashes without a care.  That episode is really powerful IMO.     Paul    730  01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm the opposite, I find "Amends" incredibly dull and boring, until the end, where I like the Buffy/Angel scene on the cliff and the miracle snow. I like the foreshadowing of Angel; the Powers That Be have bigger plans for Angel's destiny and will intervene if necessary.  You've got "Gingerbread" coming up next, that's a personal favourite of mine... in fact, the rest of season 3 is brilliant.  Season 3 is the shit!     Paul    730  03:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I love Cordy and Giles in that ep. Love it when Cordelia is having so much fun hitting the parents with the hose that she forgets about Buffy and Willow being burned alive.  (Buffy: Cordelia, the fire!  Cordelia: Oh... right.)  Amy is a total abuse victim in that show.  I remember reading a season 4/5 interview with the writers where they asked "Are you going to turn Amy back to a human?" and they were like "Nah, not anytime soon.  It's not really a priority."  Lol, no wonder she went evil.  She's kind of like Faith to Willow's Buffy, the evil twin.  I feel sorry for her.     Paul    730  13:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * She gets turned human for literally 2 seconds before getting turned back in "Something Blue" in season four. She doesn't get turned back permanently until season 6, when we find out she was mixed up in dark magic, and starts to lead Willow down a path of badness.  We see her as a rat numerous times throughtout the show, Willow just keeps her as a pet.  She only turns properly evil in season 7 for one episode.     Paul    730  13:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, you noticed that. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound critical of your liking the episode ("lecture" was an ill choice of word); there's about 25 minutes of good material in there. I just have a really severe dislike of the ending. Still, at least it's no Doublemeat Palace. All the best, Steve  T • C 15:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the fast food place. My irritation with Gingerbreads denouement is due to the revelation that the townspeople are all under some kind of demon mind control. By absolving them of blame it completely undercuts any moral point the episode might have been building to on the themes of prejudice and mob mentality. I count it as a missed opportunity to do something far more potent. As for Smallville, I certainly don't hate it, I just haven't been blown away by any of the 3 or 4 episodes I've seen. One was an enjoyable body swap story, another had Kryptonite bullets and a couple of nice post-Matrix effects. Oh, and there was one where the blond girl hacks into the Pentagon or something equally implausible, but I'm to understand this takes place almost every week. :) Steve'  T • C 20:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you like the slasher-movie finale of "Helpless"? I think trapping a powerless Buffy in a house with a crazy vampire was very interesting, we see that she's still very much a capable hero without her powers.  The Giles/Buffy argument was pretty powerful too.  How much do you hate Quentin Travers?  Grr!     Paul    730  20:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I meant the general "helpless girl trapped in house with killer" scenario. Lol, SMG got owned in Scream 2.  Quentin returns in season five's "Checkpoint".  That episode basically drives you crazy with all these smug Watchers, and then has a great ending where Buffy delivers this big speech and just puts them all in their place.  I hate the Watchers' Council.     Paul    730  22:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ooh, you're getting into the nitty gritty of the Faith storyline now. "Consequences" has a really sad moment with Willow, you'll know which one I mean.  How do you like Wesley?  I used to find Wesley insufferable, I didn't start to like him until well into Angel.  Now I can enjoy him in Buffy knowing who he will become.  I'm just about to watch "Exposed"... any good?  "Splinter" sounds good.     Paul    730  22:27, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The whole thing with Anyanka's amulet is one of the biggest continuity errors in the whole series. They establish in "The Wish", as you say, that all her wishes were reverted.  However, her wedding episode hinges on one of her old curses coming back to haunt her, and it's later revealed that she kickstarted the Russian Revolution of 1905, which means that if that wish had been reverted, it would have altered history.  Basically, the only wish that was undone was Cordy's, and Giles was wrong when he said otherwise.  Also, I'm not sure if Anya has any memory of the Wishverse because in "Selfless", she wants to take back one of her wishes, but nobody seems to remember that smashing her amulet will do that.  It's shoddy continuity, don't think about it too much is my advice.  "Doppelgangland" is the best Willow episode in the entire series, I hope you enjoy it.  Alyson Hannigan has never been so hilarious.
 * Exposed was pretty boring, but Lois spiced things up as usual. I really enjoy her rapport with Clark, and the fact that he spars back with her instead of being her beaten househusband like in the movies.  I got the nod to Superman with the helicopter, wasn't sure if it was intentional or not.  I was waiting for a "it's still the safest way to travel" line and was vaguely disappointed when it didn't come.  About to watch "Splinter".  Lol, that wacky Kryptonite.  Have you heard of pink Kryptonite?  It's hilarious, I demand a Smallville episode!     Paul    730  23:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that Anya mellowed out as Xander helped her accept her human life, but the change is pretty drastic. She's pretty happy in season five, there's an episode where she has gets injured and has a little crisis about her mortality, but other than that she's just enjoying life with Xander.  Maybe she doesn't know smashing the pendant undoes her wishes, just that it will render her mortal?  Whatever.  I love when Willow punches Anya, that's such a great start to their ever-tense relationship over the years.  And poor Vamp Willow, she just can't catch a break.   "Doppelgangland" is a brilliant episode, it would easily make it into my list of Top 10 favourites, even though it's not it's not a season finale or a "special" episode like the musical or "Hush".  ("Chosen", the series finale, is my all-time favourite.)  I was only kidding about a pink Kryptonite episode, but it would be funny to Clark camping it up.  I've seen a couple of Angel outtakes where Boreanaz and Marsters are acting camp and it was pretty funny.  Speaking of T&A, Erica Durance's striptease...  somehow I'm guessing that wasn't done for storytelling.     Paul    730  00:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought it was just a case of "Erica Durance is hot! Let's get her naked!"  The Lois striptease seems to have become rather iconic, I'd seen that image numerous times before watching the episode and it's the first image that pops up when you Google "Lois Lane" (for me, anyway).  There was a sweet moment that I liked in season 4, I think it was the Lucy Lane episode, where Lois kind of admits to Clark in the barn that she does like him.  I liked the night light joke.  Their relationship is very fun to watch, something you really can't say about Clana, who are absolutely mind-numbing.  Athough I think Chloe is probably the best character in Smallville, I think Lois is my favourite, it's always a nice surprise when she actually decides to show her face in an episode.     Paul    730  01:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean about the "first love" thing. Buffy and Angel are often very boring to watch as well.  I like them, and their relationship certainly has it's moments, but Spuffy is more fun to watch IMO.  I think the biggest problem about Clana is that I simply don't like Lana as a character.  The girl just rubs me the wrong way.  Lois is just fun because she's a sassy character, and Smallville needs a character like that.  I think the fact that Erica Durance only hauls her arse out of bed to do a handful of episodes a season works in the character's favour because I appreciate her more when she's around.  I finished "Splinter" ages ago, I just didn't mention it cause I wasn't that impressed by it.  It was an okay episode, but nothing discussion-worthy.     Paul    730  02:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

It makes sense that S8 episodes would feature Lois a lot since I suppose a lot of the stories will revolve around Lois & Clark solving mysteries for the Daily Planet? Five seems like a strong season so far despite some weak episodes. The Brainiac plot interests me more than the stupid magic stones from season 4 (although I liked season 4). I'm looking forward to Jonathan's death; one thing that always bugged me in Superman was how Supes got away with bringing Lois back from the dead without a price. If it's that easy to reverse death then nothing matters. The idea that by saving Lana, Clark kills his own father, is horribly brilliant. Bring on the pain!  Paul    730  03:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Break 4
I just finished "Solitude", which was really good. Putting Martha in peril is like the highest stakes you can have in Smallville, it's impossible not to care. I liked the omminous ending with Jonathan talking about death. You're dead meat, Kent! ;) I wouldn't worry about me being spoiled, I'm always spoiled. I knew everything that was going to happen in Buffy before I watched it.  I love how Doctor Who airs in the UK first, so I'm usually clueless as to what's going to happen.     Paul    730  04:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Lexmas" was good, the main story with Lex was sad but I didn't care for the cheesy B-story with Santa. "Fanatic" was pretty forgettable, although I did like Chloe referring to herself as Clark's "krypto-hag", lol.     Paul    730  01:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How are you liking the season three arc, you've not really discussed it? I think Faith's descent into evil is one of the best written stories in both series because she's just a human being who lost her way, she wasn't turned evil by magic or whatever.  What did you think of the controversial "Earshot" episode (it was due to air right after Columbine)?  Did you like "Choices"?  The scene between Buffy and Willow at the end is one of my favourites, because of the way Willow quietly asserts that she is choosing to be a hero in her own right and not just because she wants to help Buffy.  "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."  Willow really comes into her own in that episode, like when she stands up to Faith.  Can you see season 1 Willow doing that?  Hmm, season 1 of Angel is probably the worst season of either series, but has a couple classic episodes.  Also, Cordelia is at her best in that season, IMO.  That was before Charisma cut off her hair and her personality went with it.  I'd keep buying Buffy if I were you, and wait until you've finished that series to get stuck into the spin-off.
 * "Lockdown" was okay, I remembered that quote from the article. Why do you hate Lana in that episode, if anything, I found a little more assertive than usual.  It annoys me how naive Clark is being, how can he think he can be with Lana for the rest of their lives if he refuses to be honest with her?  She's made it quite clear that she won't stand being lied to, that's what broke them up before, so what's different this time?  It's insulting, he's treating her like a posession instead of an equal partner.  I would expect that kind of immaturity from season 1 Clark but at this point he really needs to grow a pair and just tell her already.  I know he does, in the next episode IIRC, I'm going to wait and watch that tonight.     Paul    730  04:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously Lana is naive, that girl doesn't have two brain cells to rub together. But I expect better from Clark.  I just don't feel like he respects her at all, if he did, he would either leave her or tell her his secret instead of stringing her along and playing mind games with her.  I mean, I get that he's conflicted but it's been five seasons, time to make a decision Clark.
 * I think the Xander/Cordy thing was more about resolving their relationship; she was leaving at the end of the season and they wanted them to end on good terms. Having them go to prom together would have been teasing a renewed relationship, but they just kind of made peace with one another.  I like how Anya flees the apocalypse, and in later seasons she doesn't.  That's an important character growth that they acknowledge a few times later on.  I don't think Anya was ever "evil".  She was manipulated by D'Hoffryn into thinking she was a force for good, she thoroughly believed that the people she was cursing deserved it.  She's not evil, she's just a sheep who "clings onto to whatever comes along", and learns to break that cycle and find her independance in season 7.  That's not to say I'm excusing her for massacring thousands of people, I always found it uncomfortable how Spike was vilified and rejected by the Scoobies for being a demon when Anya got off scot-free because she was an "ex-demon".  But yes, you're right, she's picking up humans traits and emotions through the people around her.  Cordelia leaves without explanation and isn't mentioned until mid-season 4 when Willow mocks Angel for hiring Cordelia "of all people".  It's kind of shitty, but I don't really mind because it's all explained in Angel.  It's not like she disappeared, she just switched shows.  The Mayor isn't one of my favourite characters, but I can see why people like him.  One thing that annoys me about him is that he has no motive.  Why does he want to be a giant snake, what's the point?    Paul    730  14:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was just in "Lockdown" where Clark kept saying how he wanted to be with Lana forever, the fact that he thought he could do that and not tell her the truth pissed me off. Even him thinking that because he was powerless that made it an "honest" relationship was kind of insulting.  What about his alien heritage and the fact he used to have superpowers, he should still be telling her that.
 * I guess Anya was evil but I'm not convinced she was ever a bad person. Like how Spike is technically "evil" but he's quite clearly a good person.  I don't think she ever realised the gravity of what she was doing, and when she tries to go back to vengeance after her time with the Scoobies, she finds that it's not as "fulfilling" as it used to be.  The Mayor is okay, you're right that his quirky personality covers up the gaping plot hole of his plan.  My favourite Big Bad is Glory, the hellgoddess from season five, she had some classic lines.  I told you to buy Buffy in my second last comment.    Paul    730  16:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I still haven't watched "Reckoning" yet. I ended up watching South Park instead, I'll probably watch it tomorrow after work. I think the fact that Faith is MIA throughout much of season 3 kind of adds to her character a little, because it shows how the Scoobies don't include her. When do you ever see them all just hanging out in the Bronze or whatever, they just use her when they want something. There's a scene in "Revelations" where Gwen Post casually mentions that the Scoobies were having a meeting and Faith is like "Guess that doesn't include me." It's really sad. Spike is primarily motivated by love (he does everything for Dru, and later Buffy), and a desperate need to prove what a badass he is (because as a human he was a total geek). Angelus' plan to suck the world into hell made little to no sense and was out of character (Angelus prefers smaller, more personal attacks), they just needed a big threat for the season finale. The Mayor's plan was ludicrous, he wanted to destroy the town he spend 100+ years building. Why? And what next? If the Scoobies hadn't defeated him, I'm sure the military would have since he was vulnerable to explosives. Again, they just needed a big threat (and it was a great episode). Anya comes back for Xander in season 4 episode 3, in the same episode that Buffy lets "Parker take a poke" (as Spike so delicately put it). The episode is pretty good (mainly because of Harmony and Anya), but I never liked the Parker storyline because Buffy doesn't shut up about him for the next 2 episodes and it really grates. As for her "giving it up", Buffy's always having romantic disasters, I think she was trying to move and it just went really badly. I'm guessing Anya is your favourite Buffy character? She's in quite a few season 4 episodes, but never promintently and she's not a cast regular yet.  Paul    730  23:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oz was a grossly underused character. Originally, his story in season 4 was going to be much larger, he was going to have a full season arc where he struggled with his inner wolf and whether that was his "real" persona.  But by that point, Seth Green had had enough of sitting in the background of scenes doing nothing, so he left and the story was reduced to a single (great) episode.  I'm okay with it anyway, because it meant we got Tara, and Oz is apparently returning in Season Eight for his very own story arc (hopefully they'll sort out the fucking werewolf design).
 * The "good vampire" thing is a legitimate complaint. Joss Whedon has admitted he never wanted good vampires on the show, vampires were plot device villains to show how empowered Buffy was, they were never meant to be sympathetic characters.  He was convinced by others to create a "vampire-with-a-soul" character, an idea he personally found cheesy.  Then in season 2, he brought in Spike and Dru to be younger, "hipper" vampires.  Audiences liked Spike so much they couldn't bear to part with him, so he wasn't killed off as planned.  The good vampires are a side effect of vampire characters being popular in the show; they weren't meant to have humanity, but if you want to develop their characters, they kind of have to.  Spike is a unique vampire, he was never really "evil" in the same way as Angelus or Darla.  The chip didn't make him good, he was always good underneath to a certain extent.  Whereas Angelus was motivated by pure evil and sadism, Spike was motivated by love for Drusilla (in the same way he was later motivated to be good by his love for Buffy).  He's an anomaly amongst vampires, and that's why we love him.  Harmony, on the other hand, was simply forced to go green because of W&H's policies.  She was never good, she just did what Angel told her to do because she's a a sheep, and betrayed him as soon as someone more powerful came along.  Season 4 has some excellent episodes, even though the overall arc is weaker than usual.  It also has the best opening episode of any Buffy season.
 * EDIT: In fact, the more I think about it, there are actually a few more "good"-natured vampires in the Buffyverse. Tales of the Vampires had a story about a vampire who retained enough of his humanity to continue  looking after his baby son; the story ends on a sad note when a Slayer "rescues" the now-adult son from his vampire dad and stakes him.  Then you have Charles Gunn, who's a vampire now in the comics.  He kills Slayers and murdered Angel in the last issue, but from own his twisted perspective, still sees himself as a champion who's trying to save Los Angeles.  I guess there's varying levels of "evil", and vampires are just individuals like the rest of us.    Paul    730  04:46, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty weak reasoning at that FAR, I've left my support for it to be kept.
 * W&H sent L.A. to hell after season five. Angel was turned human (W&H's way of leaving him helpless when he is most needed) and Gunn was sired in the chaos of the inital battle.  In the most recent issue, Gunn killed Angel, and Cordelia appeared to help Angel cross over into the afterlife.  It's clearly not permanent, because the story isn't over yet, but I hope he doesn't get re-vamped because that would just feel cheap.  I have a feeling IDW will want to milk the Angel franchise some more, there's a new series coming out without Joss Whedon's involvement that I'm not sure I'll pick up.
 * You have to remember that vampires are not pure demons but actually human hybrids, so it makes sense that they would be somewhat morally ambiguous like humans. In fact, as Anya explained, most Buffyverse demons are human hybrids, that's how we end up with good demons like Doyle and Clem.  I think Jasmine explained in Angel season four that the human race was a way of creating a balance between the forces of pure good and evil.  Yeah, you should pick up season five. :P  I'll probably get Smallville season 6 next time I'm out, if I can find it (I've can't remember seeing it).     Paul    730  13:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What's shitty, the story or the situation? The story in AtF is actually really good, it's just executed rather poorly (the art makes my eyes bleed).  Gunn is more interesting as a vampire than he ever was as a human.  I'd like them to leave the possibility of a Buffy/Angel relationship open (like they did in the Buffy TV finale) but wouldn't want them to reunite onscreen.
 * I watched "Reckoning" and was pleased to see that it lived up to your hype. The only problem I had with it was the little reboot mid-episode which made me feel a bit cheated (I honestly thought Lana learning his secret was permanent).  But I liked all the minor details like Lana stopping Lois from falling, and then failing to do that in the new timeline.  I love that Lex was responsible for Lana's death, he was pretty scary chasing after her.  Martha really impressed me; the fact that Clark told her what happened and she didn't blame him at all, I was worried that would become a dark secret between them.  I liked Lionel's sinister presence at the funeral, considering he was responsible for Jonathan's death.     Paul    730  20:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Break 5

 * In "Chosen", Buffy talks about her relationship with Spike, and how she doesn't "see fat grandchildren in the offing" with him, but that doesn't matter because she's not ready for a long-term relationship at her age. She says that one day she hopes she will be, and Angel says "I'm not getting any older."
 * It kind of hurt to see the same scene for the second time in the barn between Clark and Lana, because the first time, it was exactly what I wanted to see: Clark finally growing a pair and Lana finally finding out the truth. The second time, it was just awkward and cringeworthy, but I guess that was intentional.  Lana's death was pretty shocking even though I knew it was coming and it was undone.  Jonathan's funeral was an excellent scene, although it pissed me off that Pete wasn't there.  That always annoys me in TV; when characters who would attent an event can't because the actor has left, like Giles not going to Xander and Anya's wedding.  Was that the 100th episode of Smallville?  It's like compulsory to kill someone in the 100th episode...     Paul    730  20:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I do like to think that Buffy and Angel end up together sometime down the line. I hope that the comics continue to leave that possibility open.  I watched "Vengeance" and didn't think much of it.  I get what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't that interesting.  Also, it felt like they were in Gotham City, which was odd.  I'm intriqued by the Lionel/Martha relationship.  I know that in future seasons, Lionel fills the Jonathan role in Clark's life and has a semi-romantic relationship with Martha.  Thing is, Lionel's so machivalian (sp) that I don't take anything he says at face value.     Paul    730  23:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought Lionel redeemed himself later in the show, which is why I'm always so suspicious when he appears nice because I think "Is he good now, has he changed yet?" Currently, I believe that his feelings for Martha are genuine since they've been a subtle presence throughout the entire series, but I'm not sure whether his feelings mean he wouldn't backstab her if necessary.  Dr. Doom once sent the love of his life to hell in exhange for more power, and I'm not sure Lionel's above doing the same thing.  Lionel's connected to Martian Manhunter?  Lol, that's so random.  Did you know a recent issue of Superman/Batman revealed that Jor-El and Thomas Wayne have a shared backstory?  I read a review where they were like "this is so contrived and stupid".     Paul    730  23:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right about it being hard to read him. I quite like that, it makes him more interesting; Lionel is quite a scary villain because he gains your trust before destroying you.  I just finished "Tomb", pretty creepy episode.  You started season 4 yet or are you having a little break?     Paul    730  03:57, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't get why they kept Chloe's mom hidden, what was the point? What is it you like about House?  I can't say I've ever watched it, although I've seen loads of promos for it.  It's something I'd probably enjoy but just haven't had the time for.    Paul    730  12:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

"I like Hugh Laurie's character because he reminds me of me" Lol, you're such a narcisist. House is just one of these things I've never had much time for. I'm sure it's entertaining but I can't see myself ever getting round to watching it, to be honest. I very rarely watch TV these days, except for X Factor and Desperate Housewives.  Paul    730  23:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What, were they having a sale on kung fu movies or something? :P I just finished South Park season 2, I'll probably pick up some more of that next time I'm in town, it's so watchable. The masochist in me also wants to buy the Buffy movie; I used to have it on tape but my video broke.  I hate it, but at the same time...    Paul    730  23:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? I know you saw it as a child, so maybe it's the nostalgia talking?  I enjoy the story itself, but the execution is horrid.  It's kind of sad how there's no definitive version of that particular Buffy story (since even the canon comic adaptation is ruined by shoddy artwork).  Did you like Merrick's cameo in the season 2 finale?     Paul    730  23:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The dialogue is good, I must admit. I love all the airhead-speak like "get out of my facial", it's so stupid.  Also, the exchange between Lothos and Buffy; "Is this your weapon, your puny faith?"  "No, my keen fashion sense!" *blowtorches Lothos with hairspray* is one my favourite Buffy moments, character-wise.  "Lefty"?  His name is Amilyn, is that just a name you made up cos you couldn't remember his actual one?  Paul Reubens creeps me out, isn't he a paedo or something?  Joss Whedon hates Donald Sutherland, apparently he was a total bitch on the set and insisted on a lot of script changes.  He's a big part of why the movie is shit.  Lol, show repsect for Canon Merrick, he's a canon part of the Buffyverse, which makes him way cooler than Donald Sutherland!  The show isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn close.  You really can't compare the movie to the quality of the TV show.     Paul    730  01:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh right... shows how well I know the movie, lol. Pike is cool, there's a non-canon comic where he and Buffy run off to Las Vegas and battle vampires, it's pretty fun.  There's another one where he comes to Sunnydale in season 7 to help Buffy fight these demon nazis, but I haven't got that one yet.  Joss does play the "they ruined my script" card pretty often, but I think there is a level of truth to it.   The Buffy movie script is perfectly good, and they did butcher it in the execution.  Whose fault it is I don't know for sure, but I doubt it was Joss because the man is undeniably talented.  Have you seen Extras by the way?  It's an excellent Ricky Gervais sitcom I think you'd like (very dry humour) and it's pretty relevant to what we're talking about; all about the rise and fall of an aspiring writer/actor.     Paul    730  01:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Before Season Eight, there was a tie-in comic that ran simultaneously with the TV show, like the Smallville comic, and Pike appeared in a season 7-set story. The old series wasn't canon, and was pretty variable in quality, Season Eight is considered a different entity. I didn't say Joss Whedon was infallible, but I thought it was a well-known fact that writers are often sidelined in the filmmaking process as directors and producers take charge. I'm not so much defending Joss Whedon (his hard-done by attitude is a little annoying) as criticizing the evil Hollywood suits. You've never heard of Extras? I thought that it was pretty popular in the US. You've seen the British version of The Office, right? That was Ricky Gervais's big break, and Extras was the follow up. The original formula had a couple of struggling extras on a film set, usually with some A-list actor like Ben Stiller or Orlanda Bloom acting like a tosser throughout the episode. The second season saw Gervais' character get his big break with his own sitcom, only to see it destroyed by studio interference. Here's a scene, it doesn't have Gervais in it, but it's fucking hysterical. I'd definitely recommend you check it out on DVD, it's only 2 seasons and an xmas special.  Paul    730  02:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I prefer the US version of The Office, Steve Carell is incredibly endearing in it. That show is very dry humour, it's one of the few shows that regularly makes me laugh out loud although I don't watch it on a regular basis.  I didn't like Ricky Gervais in the UK Office but he's brilliant in Extras.  I don't own Extras on DVD but I'd say it's worth picking up if you haven't seen it.  The best part is seeing the A-listers make fun of themselves.  Patrick Stewart is portrayed as a pervert, and Daniel Radcliffe as a horny virgin.  It's a very bleak, honest satire of the entertainment industry, and the two lead characters are so charming.     Paul    730  03:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, be sure to tell me what you think when you pick it up in 2017! :P Btw, I watched "Cyborg". Meh, it was okay, I'm getting kinda tired of these "Clark meets DC character and helps put them on the right path" episodes.  It feels like a tired formula already, I'd rather see them bring in a DC character for a proper storyline (which I'm expecting them to do with Green Arrow).     Paul    730  03:40, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have any response to this article, How To Make Smallville Watchable Again?    Paul    730  21:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I found it a little harsh as well, but then I've watched five seasons in only a couple of months. I think I would get incredibly bored with the show had I watched it weekly for years.  I don't agree with these fans who claim they should just stick him in the tights and make him Superman, I think that completely misses the point of the series and shows how simple they are.  I notice in that article they made fun of the stones-of-power-Lana-witch storyline.  What did you make of that?  I found it a pretty strange story for Smallville, the image of Lana spinning around like a tornado in a Chinese temple sticks with me.  Not sure whether I liked it or not.     Paul    730  22:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You didn't like the concept of Smallville until you watched it, did you? I think Smallville lives up to it's potential pretty damn well.  You make a good case for the season four story, although it still felt a little wacky.  When you think of Smallville, you think of Kansas and meteor freaks and natural disasters, you don't think of China and witches and magic stones.  But then, a lot of people felt that way about Buffy season four, "why are there soldiers and government facilities in Buffy?" and I love that season (despite it's flaws).  I guess it's good that Smallville tried to do something different.     Paul    730  23:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel like that with the X-Men movies. I've seen many people online who are huffy that those films aren't direct adaptations of the comics, with everyone flying around in spandex and Dark Phoenix eating planets and stuff. I just think "Those movies are their own thing and they do a damn good job of bringing a pretty ludicrous comic book into the real world." That's not to say that all movies should follow suit; Fantastic Four would have been a lot better had they embraced their own silliness and went to Subterranea or Atlantis or somewhere outlandish. I don't see how Smallville could "ruin" Superman. The character has reached a point where nothing could harm his iconic status no matter how bad it was. Look at all the shit Batman has survived over the years, and he's still this years most popular superhero. Lol, your comment about Metropolis reminds me of Buffy fans who get upset over Sunnydale's impossible geography. Who gives a shit if the ocean disappears every now and again?  Paul    730  23:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I dislike Last Stand because of it's wasted potential but it's not a bad movie. It's poorly executed, but it still has a more substance than other summer popcorn flicks and compared to the Batman and Superman franchises, we got off so easy.  That said, I enjoyed Batman and Robin the first time I saw it.  It was one of those awful movies you watch on a Sunday evening when you have nothing better to do.     Paul    730  00:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Shcumacher Batman movies are the gayest thing I've ever seen. When I was watching Forever, all I could think was "Wow, Two-Face and Riddler are so shagging, it's not even funny."  They're all over each other.  Isn't it a common theory that the Bat-nipples stem from Schumachers personal kinks.  I've never seen the old Batman TV series or the movie, but my friend loved it as a child.  It's crap they never made Bruce Wayne, that could have made a nice companion show to Smallville.  Oh, I saw your friend Boggydark got blocked, you and him go way back don't you.  He wants you to stick up for him. :P    Paul    730  02:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, well, I meant gay in the literal guy-on-guy sense, not the "pejorative non-sexualized" way but both certainly apply. I've not seen Lost Boys but I've heard good things (plus Keifer Sutherland looks hot-in-a-Spike-kind-of-way on that poster).  It sounds cool, would you recommend it?  I wouldn't have thought Bruce Wayne had much story in it, but it's article makes it sound pretty decent and I'm sure if things ran dry they could flesh it out with some random magic stones and witches and shit. :P It sounds a helluva lot more interesting than an Aquaman show at any rate.  I always felt that X-Men Evolution could have made a great live-action series, they could have really taken their time adapting the X-universe and doing it justice.  The cartoon is still fun, but it doesn't feel as deep.     Paul    730  03:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it cheesy in a crap kind of way, or in a cool way like Buffy? Like, is it being cheesy on purpose to make a point?  Lol, it's compulsory to diss Aquaman, he's the total bitch of the DC universe.  They have a great Aquaman spoof in Invincible (Which is brilliant, btw.  They're making a movie!) that basically pokes fun at how pointless the character is.  I agree that Batman Begins made any kind of onscreen Batman prequel pretty redundant because it told his origin so well.  Mutant X rings a bell but not a very loud one, it's not X-Men so I'm not really interested in it.  We already have a lame X-Men rip-off.  Btw, do you want to voice your opinion at Template talk:Buffyversenav?  I finally got around to splitting that template and it's not going down so well.  I remember you supporting the idea of seperate templates in the past.     Paul    730  03:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh my god, it's so 80s... it has mullets and Corey Feldman. That trailer was iffy, not sure if it did the movie justice.  It looked more B-movie than I was expecting, but I'll give it a chance at some point.     Paul    730  04:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought we frowned upon the use of "Buffyverse" on Wikipedia, and Buffy and Angel templates would be more "real world" by basing it around the actual series instead of the fictional universe they share.    Paul    730  04:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Break 6
Parker was annoying, but I wouldn't say he's a sociopath, just a creep. Although in a non-canon novel, Buffy goes into the future and Parker is working for a vampire cult, so maybe he has potential darkness. Have you seen "Beer Bad" yet? That's the worst episode of Buffy ever put to film but Parker gets his come uppance in it. Yeah, Buffy becomes quite the hussy in season four; I like the scene where she and Parker shag if only for the cool song playing in the background. "Harsh Light of Day" is a great episode, the Gem of Amara storyline is followed up in a sequel episode over on Angel, where Oz takes the Gem to L.A. and Spike follows him. That's fun as well. Lol, you're always nitpicking the illogical Buffyverse physics, go read Anne Rice or something. Vampires do have a blood flow, as evident by the fact they get hard-ons and that one time Angel got poisoned in season 3... they don't have heartbeat, it's possible their blood flows via some wacky mystical physiology? Where are you in the season? I haven't watched any new Smallvilles lately, although I picked up season 6.  Paul    730  02:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, check out Dr. Phil. I keep forgetting you're a psychiatrist/therapist guy.  Anya's sex logic was hilarious "It's ludicrous to have these interlocking bodies and not interlock".  Mate, if you think "Harsh Light" was an orgy, wait until "Touched" in season seven.  I think that was a case of "hey, we've got two episodes before the series finale, lets just do an episode where everyone randomly fucks each other".  It's a good episode though, best Spuffy scene ever (for the dialogue).  Some of the Spuffy scenes in season six are downright pornographic; there's a scene where Spike shags Buffy up the arse in the Bronze that didn't register with me until I'd watched it a few times, then I was like "OMG, Buffy what are you doing!!??"  Lol, apparently SMG hates that scene because she thinks it makes Buffy less of a good role model for kids.  Wacky mystical physiology is a perfectly solid explantion, how do you explain how Clark can fly and shoot heat from his eyes?  Wacky alien physiology. :P We're dealing with a fictional universe which heavily features magic, so obviously not everything is grounded in scientific possibility.  "Void" is my next episode, but I've been putting it off to watch South Park.     Paul    730  03:34, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * SMG did fight to have it cut; she and Joss had a big falling out over it IIRC. Apparently she thought the whole season was too dark, and basically Joss was like "well, people go through dark stages in life, and you wouldn't know about that cos you're a spoiled TV star".  Joss wanted to go even further with the darkness and self-loathing, until Marti Noxon intervened and backed Gellar up by saying that Buffy (the character) had hit rock bottom and it was time to bring her back up again.  Season six is very controversial amongst the cast, crew and fans (personally I love it, but I can see how it might have been a bit depressing stretched out over 22 weeks).  Vampires do not have human bodies, last time I checked human bodies didn't turn to dust in sunlight or have super strength.  When the human dies, their body undergoes supernatural changes and that can explain away any biological plot holes as far as I'm concerned.  How does Clark fly again?  What's the actual science behind it?  Most Marvel characters have some nonsensical scientiftic explanation for their powers, I remember Stan Lee saying in some interview that he didn't want character flying around like Superman without explantion, hence webshooters/armor/magic hammers (which of course areso much more realistic).     Paul    730  04:01, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Body swap? Did Spider-Man undergo a body swap when he gained his abilities?  No, his body was just altered on a physical level, which I believe (< important clarification, since I'm making this up as I go along) is what happens when a human is turned into a vampire.  You say that having a demon soul explains their strengths and weaknesses, so why can't that explain the other weird things they can do like get erections?  Double standard much?  :P  Btw, eavesdropping on your convo with that anon; do you not think of the Friday the 13th series as one coherent universe?  You seemed to imply that you don't consider FvJ or JX as canon.  I think all the F13s and NoESs form one big universe, albeit a "take-it-with-a-pinch-of-salt-Marvel-continuity" kind of way.     Paul    730  05:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, this conversation is beyond ludicrous. How is a guy who can stick to walls, defy the laws of physics, and shoot webbing out of his wrists (if we're talking the film or 2000s comic Spidey) any less ridiculous than a vampire and his magic boner? You're using the mystical argument with the poison, but the same thing can't apply to the vampire's body?  They are supernatural beings so trying to apply the natural laws of physics and biology to them is absurd and futile.
 * I meant more do you consider all the movies to be canon, since you mentioned different timelines and universes. Just wondering whether you personally consider FvJ and X non-canon or if you were playing devil's advocate to explain wiki policy.  Oh god Bignole, "Beer Bad" was horrible.  Just look at the insultingly preachy title.  Alcohol is bad, m'kay.  The episode had only two redeeming moments; Xander's "nothing can defeat the penis!" line and Willow throwing Parker's bullshit back in his face.     Paul    730  12:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because explaining vampire physiology in such detail would be pointless, it's not what the show is about at all. As far as I'm concerned, they're supernatural and that's a good enough explanation.  So long as they follow their own basic "rules" (sunlight and stakes = death) then I don't mind a few illogical plot holes or inconsistencies.  I admit that Spider-Man is a bad analogy, since he's a science-based character and not mystical.
 * I take the dates given in the F13 movies with a big pinch of salt. I've seen several fan timelines and they all vary greatly, better to just view it as a kind of floating timeline, especially if you take the comics and novels into consideration.
 * "Bunnies frighten me" was from "Fear, Itself" (aw, little Gachnar at the end). I love the running gag about Anya's bunny phobia, especially her song in the musical about how "it must be bunnies" responsible for the chaos.  I've not yet read the season 2 article in depth, but I've been watching it's development and it looks great so far.  Have you found many reviews for the Reception section?  I know that's one of the harder things, since Smallville is such a cult show.     Paul    730  20:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, is that you talking from personal experience (ie, you hitting someone)? How are you liking Riley?  I think he's definitely the worst cast regular of Buffy  (possibly Angel as well, since Connor was pretty likable in season 5).  He can be sweet sometimes, but I don't really care much about him.  He's kind of boring.  That said, I don't hate him like some people, and he's an important part of the show.     Paul    730  21:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought you might like Riley because he's all apple pie and family values in a Smallville kind of way. He does have his moments, and he becomes more sympathetic in season five.  I know Marc Blucas was quite upset by the backlash he recieved, I remember reading an interview where he talked about how soul-destroying the online hatred he was getting was.  The character's coming into Season Eight apparently, which I don't mind so long as it's a brief stay.     Paul    730  21:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Most fans hated him because he's not Angel, the same way they hated Kennedy (who I happen to like, and am enjoying her role in Season Eight a lot) for not being Tara. I think the Spike thing was a mistake, and one that the writers have acknowledged.  Maybe his chip hadn't been activated until he escaped the lab?  It was brand new, after all.  We don't see him get electrocuted before he attacks Willow, do we?  (Great scene btw, love it when she lamps him).     Paul    730  22:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Willow and Spike have a very funny relationship. I like it in "Lover's Walk" in season three when he's crying on her shoulder, and she pats him and says "there there" while looking absolutely terrified.  There's lots of little Spike/Willow momentts, they have good chemistry together.     Paul    730  22:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd go with image 4 because it's the best close up of the actual SFX. Though I'd probably crop it a little closer because there's a lot of empty space like Clark's left shoulder. Image 2 would be my second choice, but the SFX isn't as clear in that one. Clark looks weird in 3, and 1 just isn't a good angle IMO.  Paul    730  16:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I meant crop out only the left side of the image, not the whole thing, but the edited version looks fine.    Paul    730  18:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, yes, I knew that would cause confusion, I should have clarified. It's fine anyway, because you've merged the two images together, it doesn't look as wide anymore.     Paul    730  18:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Being superficial for a moment, have you decided on a colour scheme for the episode list and quote boxes.  It looks kind of bland and white compared to the season 1 article's redness.     Paul    730  20:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't even notice the pale blue shades. Whatever works, really.  I tried making the Buffy nav box red (the same as my boxset), but it looked really garish and fugly so decided it was better to keep it blue.     Paul    730  20:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I was planning on redirecting the Scooby article to the "Main characters" on my Buffy character article (which, as I acknowledged in my sandbox, is set to be a shameless rip-off of your Smallville page because I like that setup). Once that page is in reasonable shape, I want to redirect a lot of articles there (pretty much all the character articles which aren't already linked). As for the term Scooby Gang, I seem to remember Spike using it rather a lot in season 4 and 5, a derisive way. (He also uses it in Angel, when he tells Angel his group should have a name as well). Tara has used it to identify her outsider status, as has Faith. It's used a lot outside the show, by the writers and critics, etc.    Paul    730  20:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the main characters can support articles, even Riley. We'll see.  It'll be hard enough convincing the Buffy fans to let us redirect important guest stars like Joyce and Jonathan.  I'm undecided about Andrew, I was going to redirect his article but I think he might warrant a small article, I'll see what I can dig up.  Do you think I should add Twilight, since he only appears in comics, or redirect him to the Season Eight article?  Spike says "Scoobies" in "This Year's Girl", that I remember.  The Faith double bill is one of the highlights of the season, and the moment I started to like Faith (wasn't fond of her initially, or Spike, or Dawn).  How amazing is "Hush"?     Paul    730  21:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You know I'm not defending the current state of the articles, but there's plenty of characterization info out there. Check out Zythe's unfinished Cordy rewrite, for example.  Twilight is a new character, and one who's identity is unknown (Riley is a popular theory) but he's a Big Bad so it seems strange to omit him (yes, I'm a fanboy, I know).  I'm sure info will crop up as the story continues, and if he does end up being an existing character, he can be covered on their article/section.  My question was more about whether the character article should be restricted to TV characters or all Buffy characters regardless of media.  Satsu, Buffy's lesbian love, might warrant a section due to the media attention her story recieved.     Paul    730  22:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I got the impression you looked down on Cordelia as article-worthy (you made a couple of digs during the template discussion I meant to pull you up for :P). The Buffy characters are more notable than you think, as well as the many primary sources (DVDs, interviews), there's also academic books out there discussing the character's arcs.  I can see all the Buffy regulars supporting articles, but I'm less confidant about the likes of Lorne and Doyle over on Angel.  "Hush" is a somewhat overrated episode (there's better Buffys) but it's still very impressive, and a lot more creative than anything Smallvilles ever put out (sorry, but it's true).  The reason I asked you what you thought was because you're a horror fan and it's considered the scariest Buffy, what with the Tim Burton-esque villains and creepy music.  It made some "100 Scariest Things Ever" list, which is cool.     Paul    730  22:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Tara will be discussed mostly in relation to Willow, but there's certainly stuff out there about her character specifically.
 * I think Buffy is more creative because of it's willingness to change and do something different, even if it means taking a risk. The show was commended for it's hip dialogue, so they did an episode mostly without dialogue.  They introduced a younger sister out of thin air, they did a frickin' musical... They go from a wacky comedy episode about a robot, to an episode widely regarded as the most realistic and powerful portrayal of death on television.  Their ideas were more varied and ambitious than Smallville's were.  To me, each season of Buffy is really distinct and memorable on it's own, whereas on Smallville, it feels like the same thing each season, where Clark whines about Lana and his secret and his destiny.  The themes of Smallville seem to apply more to the show as a whole rather than individual episodes and seasons.  I don't think themes being "obvious" is a problem when said themes are powerful and entertaining; Smallville might be more subtle in it's themes, but sometimes it's subtle to the point of boring.  The stories themselves aren't as exciting at face value as the ones on Buffy.  Speaking of unsubtle lines, Smallville sometimes gets very obvious with the Superman foreshadowing.  I mean, the occasional easter egg for fans is cool, but constantly dressing Clark in blue and red (cos he's Superman, right?) and all the silly little lines like "your a man of steel, Clark" get a little cringy sometimes.  As for the characters, the characters of Smallville are mostly defined by their relationship to Clark, rather than being strong and independant in their own right.  I also feel that characters on Buffy have stronger personalities, whereas the cast of Smallville are a bit wet and bland.  I think Buffy, Willow, Cordelia, and Spike could all seriously rival Chloe and Lionel in a "who's the best character" fight.  Smallville has a colourful, comic book vibe to it, but I haven't found the visuals as enthralling as you say.  As you say, it's all subjective, and we're never going to agree.
 * I wasn't literally scared by "Hush", but I found it "scary" in terms of atmosphere and the character design of the demons. The scene where the boy is screaming and not making any sound is quite disturbing is you put yourself in his place.  No suspense?  What about when Tara is being chased?  That scene is even more exciting when you consider that was Tara's first appearance, and from a new viewers perspective, she could quite easily have bought it right then.  How are you liking the unpopular Maggie Walsh/Adam/Initiative storyline?     Paul    730  00:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Break 7

 * I'll work on Tara's section and we'll see if we can spin it out into it's own article.
 * Most of the so-called filler stories have some relevance to the overall story (or it's themes), especially in the last three seasons which are a lot less episodic. Buffy can be a whiny bitch, but at least the show acknowledges and spoofs that trait, with Faith and other characters.  How about the scene in "The Zeppo", where Xander interrupts one of Buffy and Angel's melodramatic scenes, or that scene on Angel where Wesley and Cordy impersonate Buffy and Angel, which I can't find on YouTube.  My point is, there's a bit of lighthearted self-deprecation, which I don't recall ever seeing on Smallville.  Plus Bangel ended after three seasons because the story had ran it's course, I'm on season five of Smallville and Lana hasn't even figured out Clark's an alien yet, I mean Jesus Christ!  Talk about beating a dead horse.
 * Tara's death is only realistic in the sense she was killed by a human with a gun (which is horrific in a world full of evil demons with superpowers). I was actually talking about Joyce's death.  Not sure if you've seen "The Body", but that episode is so mundane and uncomfortable and it gives you a kind of cold feeling as you watch it... it's disturbingly realistic, and a masterpiece of an episode (and Anya of all people has the best scene by articulating exactly how everyone else feels).  Jonathan's death was excellent on Smallville, but Joyce's blows it out of the water IMO (even though I never cared for the character).
 * I can understand putting Clark in his favourite colours, but he's like a cartoon character in that red jacket over blue shirt combo, it's like he has no other wardrobe. I'm not debating the quality of the show's cinematography, but it's not something I really notice while watching.  I'm more concerned with the story and characters (not saying cinematography isn't important, my favourite movie is Halloween).  The Initiative storyline in Buffy is good but Adam is a feeble character (created last minute because the Maggie Walsh actress left, if you believe the rumours).  What did you make of SMG's acting as Faith?  You have "Superstar" (not my favourite episode at all, but another example of trying something different) and "Where the Wild Things Are" coming up.  "WtWHA" is a pretty unpopular episode, but Anya's in it quite a bit so I enjoy it.     Paul '   730  03:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't really expect Smallville to be self-deprecating for the reasons you said, but I enjoy how Buffy can switch between genres so drastically and remain a believable universe. Doctor Who is the same.  It's not that I blame Lana for being stupid so much as the lack of development in their relationship.  They can only go round in circles so long before it becomes boring television.  Lex isn't as bad because he has other stuff going on, and because his relationship with Clark really is disintergrating and getting darker each season (whereas with Lana, they fight, but they're not enemies so it doesn't feel like there's any progress happening either way).  Lana's just the worst thing about the show, period.  I kinda wish they could of manufactured a relationship between Lana and Pete, since that would match the source material, and given both characters something to do (and made Clark all jealous and stuff).  They never really interacted, which is a shame.  I actually liked Lana with Jason because I felt their relationship was on more of an equal footing, it's a shame he had to turn out to be evil and then die and then be totally forgotten about by everyone in the cast.
 * The first third of season five is mainly about Joyce's illness, and Joss planned it years in advance, so it's not that random. Jonathan's death was more beautiful and noble, but the writers weren't going for that with Joyce, they were going for pointless and mundane and the emptiness Joyce leaves behind.  I love how a show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer can depict death with such honesty; Joss Whedon apparently based it on his own mother's death, which explains a lot.
 * SMG far outshines ED, but hers is a more interesting role. Tell me what you think of "Restless", the season finale, when you get to it.  That's a very weird, abstract episode that went completely over my head the first time I watched it.  It's spectacular in hindsight, there have been so many essays written about it.     Paul    730  05:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Supposed to be in season five in what context? As a villain or continuing as Lana's b/f? His section on the character article isn't really clear on that matter.  I liked Jason, the way he turned from a genuinely nice person into a psychotic gun-wielding mama's boy was rather strange, although I didn't really question it at the time.  Was it intentional, or rewritten like the Adam character in season 3(?).  I don't expect them to spend ages mourning Jason, but I can't recall Lana so much as acknowledging to his death (maybe she did and I forgot).  She dated him for like a year, it seems weird for her to forget him entirely.  That said, I kind of agree with you.  A lot of the Tara fans were upset that Willow moved on mere months after her soulmates death, but I argue that it's TV and watching people grieve for too long is boring no matter how much we loved the dead character.  Willow's arc about her moving on with Kennedy was an underrated storyline IMO, because fans just couldn't accept Tara's absence.     Paul    730  14:00, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fans wouldn't accept Tara's death because she was a positive lesbian role model who inspired people, and killing her off was somehow "homophobic". Which I find rather offensive, because it implies you should treat gay people differently from straight people.  Beloved characters die in the Buffyverse all the time... I like Tara, even in season four when a lot of people found her strange and annoying.  What do you mean?  She was never "in the dark".  Her mother was a practising witch who taught her spells and she grew up aware of the supernatural world.  The only thing Willow would have to tell her is that her friend is a Slayer, and they all fight demons, which would probably have happened immediately after they got their voices back in "Hush".  I really like the seamlessness of Willow and Tara, I think it's pretty groundbreaking that a character can just fall in love with another woman and be happy, without all this "Oh my god, I'm so conflicted about my sexuality" cliches.  Willow "comes out" to Buffy in "New Moon Rising", and Buffy then outs Willow to the rest of the gang in "The Yoko Factor" (Giles' reaction is priceless).  Even well into season 5, you see that the Scoobies, while trying to be accepting of Tara, are still very uncomfortable with the idea of Willow being a lesbian and this strange girl about whom they know nothing.     Paul    730  20:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * So? Buffy isn't Clark Kent, it's not really a big secret who she is.  Why would Tara learning Buffy is the Slayer matter, she's probably heard of Slayers before, since she's very familiar with magical history and lore.  I think with Willow, the moment she really realised what she was feeling was in "New Moon Rising", that's when she was forced to confront the reality of her feelings for Tara.  Before that, it was kind of a fantasy, where she could escape into Tara's room and forget about her real life (remember Tara asking why she hadn't met Willow's friends yet).  Then when Oz came back, she came out to Buffy and was suddenly all very real.  Maybe she did have an epiphany and just didn't verbalise it. (Btw, you're right, I had a kind of a epiphany where I realised I was gay... that's quite an accurate word.)  A theme in season four is that the Scoobies are all moving away from each other, as you do after high school.  They probably didn't notice what Willow was going through because they were too wrapped up in their own problems.  Remember, Willow's "old reliable", why would they need to pay any attention to her?     Paul    730  21:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I never thought anything of Tara not acknowledging Buffy's Slayerness. I just figured, she's a witch so she knows about this stuff, and moved on.  Willow's offscreen epiphany doesn't bother me too much either, it might have been nice to have a more overt acknowledgement of it by Willow herself, but I think the relationship plays out brilliantly as it is.  A possible reason for Willow not dealing with it directly is the network; WB weren't happy about having a gay relationship in the series, which is why the writers are so coy sometimes with their "magic" metaphor for lesbianism.  That might be the reason, but I think it was more because the writers wanted to treat it as simply a romantic relationship, without getting distracted by the "gay" side of it.
 * I too have lost touch with most of my school friends. That's definitely a big part of season four, and plays into the penultimate episode a lot, where you'll see the core four reconcile in quite an unusual way.  Buffy abandoned Willow for Faith in season three as well, she certainly takes her for granted.  They all take Xander for granted, which made for a great episode with "The Zeppo" (possibly Xander's best episode) and for a really poignant scene in season 7 where Xander admits to what an outsider he feels like.  Adam's plan with the zombie robots and the chips and all that nonsense makes very little sense to me, I'm not even going to try and fanwank an explantion.  The Spike things falls into the Austin Powers "why don't you just shoot them now instead of subjecting them to an overly elaborate death from which they'll inevitably escape" trap of fiction.  "Primeval" is a good episode for the Scooby interaction and the kick ass Matrix fight between Buffy and Adam, but aside from that, it's one of the weaker season finales (since "Restless" is a weird metaphorical epilogue and not the real season four "finale").     Paul    730  22:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember a scene where Buffy asks Willow where she was and she was like "uh, in the library all night" instead of saying she was at Tara's. That seems pretty afraid.  Then there's Tara's insecurity that Willow is hiding her from her friends, which is probably true.  I like "Restless" being the finale because it's unusual.  I like that Joss changed the structure of the season a little.  Plus, "Restless" is actually quite a good conclusion to season four; after a year of confusion and seperation from each other, the Scoobies get together to watch videos and work through their various psychological issues via dreams.  It foreshadows a lot of season five and beyond as well.  "Restless" is amazing.  Tell me what you thought of season four as a whole, does it deserve it's rep as the weakest Buffy season IYO?
 * I just like the idea of Big Science Man vs Small Mystical Girl, and the girl kicking the man's arse royally. Appeals to my feminist side, especially Buffy's line "You could never hope to grasp the source of our power!"  Adam is an idiot, that's one Buffy character I'm not going to defend.  Although your preoccupation with picking apart plot holes has me slightly worried; what are you going to complain about in my beloved season five?  Do you have season five yet, I can't remember?     Paul    730  23:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Dawn was foreshadowed as early as season 3; Faith says in "Graduation Day" (during a dream sequence) "Little Miss Muffet counting down from 730" (< the source of my username). 730 is the number of days in 2 years, and 2 years from "Graduation Day" is the episode when Dawn's ritual occurs and Buffy dies.  Some of Glory's insane victims make Miss Muffet references regarding Dawn.  Then there's the moment you mentioned, where Faith talks about "big sister".  And Tara states "Be back before dawn..." in "Restless" (and I'm pretty sure 7:30 appears as the time on Buffy's alarm clock during that scene).  The way I see it is, Buffy has prophetic dreams as part of her Slayer powers, and those dreams are clearly trying to warn her about her impending death and upcoming events (in a totally useless, cryptic way).
 * Lol, you hate Superman Returns so that doesn't mean anything. I saw Smallville season seven advertised in the paper today, but I'm not sure I'll get it any soon though (wait until it goes down in price a little).     Paul    730  23:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Cheese Man makes no sense whatsoever. Joss just threw him in there to be random and funny, he's the only part of the episode that doesn't have some deeper meaning. Buffy was looking into her own room at the end of the episode, I assume because that's where Tara told her, "You think you know, who you are, what's to come... you haven't even begun." That phrase crops up a few times in Buffy; Dracula delivers it to Buffy in the next episode, and it appeared in a recent issue of Season Eight in reference to Willow (Willow's "evil" again, Buffy goes into the future and she's all dark, it's a whole thing). It was supposed to appear in the series finale as well, where the First would morph into all the Big Bads, with the message being split up between each character, but it was cut for unknown reasons (couldn't get the actors?). One of my favourite parts of "Restless" is this exchange "First Slayer: The Slayer does not walk in this world. Buffy: I walk. I talk. I shop, I sneeze. I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out and I don't sleep on a bed of bones." To me, that really sums up what makes Buffy a better Slayers than all the others; she refuses to play by the rules. I also love Giles' exposition song, just cos it was hilarious and cool.  Paul    730  00:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, you're so juvenile. :P Oz is scheduled to appear in his own 4 issue arc (the equivalent of an episode) but it won't be for a while due to the comics being monthly. Why is Dark Willow getting a sigh?  She's getting a sigh from quite a few fans as well, I'm not sure where I stand on her because the story is incomplete and we don't know what's happening.  Basically, future Dark Willow kidnaps Buffy into the 23rd century, where Buffy meets future Slayer Fray.  We don't know what Dark Willow's motives are or how she's survived 200 years, but she's all black haired and vieny which usually means bad things.  Meanwhile, back in the present, Twilight and his minions are working to bring about the End of Magic, a historic event which will bring about Fray's future. Read about youself at the very plot-heavy "Time of Your Life (Buffy comic)" article.     Paul    730  02:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at the article and the plot section doesn't seem to be that well-written anyway, you're probably better off staying away. Do you think you'd ever check out Season Eight (that's not me trying to convince, I know you don't read comics and are only a casual Buffy fan)?  Have you picked up any of those Superman comics on your wishlist yet?  All Star came to an end recently, the comic sites were all mourning it.  I've still not watched anymore Smallville, I still have a season and a half left of South Park and that's a lot less involved and more watchable.  I'll tell you when I get back into Smallville.     Paul    730  04:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * They have paperbacks of the "episodes"; a four issue arc basically constitutes an episode, with the odd one-shot issue here and there. So far, "The Long Way Home" and "No Future For You" are out. If they made a full season collection it would probably be pretty pricey.  Where are you going on holiday, abroad or just going back to your hometown?  South Park is more watchable because each episode is only 20 minutes long and has a new plot, and it's more lighthearted.  Smallville is serious drama, which is fine but not if you're not in the mood for it.  South Park is a brilliant show, I class it alongside Buffy, Angel, and Doctor Who as one of my favourite shows ever.  In what way has it gotten tiresome?  If anything, it's gotten a lot better as it's come along, the characters are more developed and the stories a lot more interesting.  It's a lot funnier than The Simpsons and more intelligent than Family Guy, it's the best animated TV series in the history of mankind. :) Eric Cartman is a fucking God.     Paul    730  04:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree, I find the show extremely entertaining. Even when the story's not that great (and I've enjoyed a lot of the recent stories), I think the charm and humour of the characters (Cartman, Butters, and Randy in particular) make it fun to watch; the only episodes I can't stand are the ones which don't feature the main characters.  Your friend apparently didn't watch last season, which was brilliant.  This season has been more average, but the last two eps were pretty good and the new episodes start this week (it's been on hiatus since April).  Fucking every show is "going into the dumps".  It's impossible for a show to last a few years without a bunch of people claiming how it's jumped the shark and it should be cancelled. Also, sorry to pull this card, but compare this to this.  :P    Paul    730  05:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Lol, that website is a load of crap, I just couldn't resist throwing it out there as a cheap shot. :P I agree with you. And of course the Buffy fans drive me crazy, I hate the Buffy fans (especially the shippers, they piss me off the most). Just read some of the comments on Buffy's JTS page, most of them just amount to "as soon as they left high school and everything changed it jumped the shark". Urgh... whatever, the later seasons have far more substance to them than the high school episodes. Just because it's not the same as the early seasons doesn't mean it's not as good, if not better. As pretentious as it sounds, most people just aren't smart enough to get Buffy. They tune in for their monster-of-the-week storyline and some Buffy/Angel kissage, and when they change that formula, people get pissed off. It was the same with Doctor Who, as soon as Rose left, people started throwing accusations of shark-jumping. It didn't matter that Martha and Donna were both perfectly good (better IMO) replacements for Rose, or that the episodes themselves were better quality, people just didn't like the fact that it was different. The Smallville fans who piss me off are the ones who complain he doesn't wear the suit. It doesn't matter about the story or the character development, they just want to see him in the suit and get annoyed because the show won't indulge them. Oh god, I just noticed a comment on that site complaining about how Angel ended on a cliffhanger. Just because it didn't wrap everything up with a pretty bow like Charmed did doesn't make it a bad ending you goddamn idiots! PS, your comments about Lois flirting with Clark without realising it is very interesting, I never really thought of it like that. I saw it as more of a sibling-y relationship (which will obiviously change in the future...)    Paul    730  14:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Shippers are an area of fandom who are obsessed with a particular relationship in the series. So you have the Buffy/Angel fans who support that relationship to the exclusion of all others, and actively hate Buffy's other love interests.  Or, even worse, the fan fiction writers who pair up unlikely characters to fuel their own sexual fantasies, like Spike/Tara or Spike/Xander.  Don't get me wrong, I support certain relationships in fiction, but there is a limit.
 * Buffy fully embraces her destiny for the first time in season five; she actively seeks out training from Giles instead of it being forced upon her. Apparently that's the result of the spell in "Primeval", she feels more connected to the Slayer line and becomes slightly more primal in her Slaying ("hunting" instead of patrolling).  She researches other Slayers and their history, and goes on a vision quest to speak with the First Slayer to learn more about her role.  We also see her become a mother to Dawn, which is an important role reversal; early seasons saw Buffy rebelling against Giles and Joyce's parental authority, in season five we see Buffy herself trying to assert that authority with Dawn. However, in season six, the character goes through an extremely dark and self-loathing period which alienated a lot of viewers.  In season seven, she's more positive, but also hardened by her leadership position; she has to make choices that will get other people killed.  In Season Eight, she's a more morally ambiguous character, robbing banks to fund her Slayer operation and willing to let people die for the sake of the "bigger picture" (to the disgust of Willow and Fray).  So yes, Buffy is constantly growing, which a lot of fans find hard to accept.  A lot of people don't like that Buffy isn't an innocent little school girl anymore, but I love the darkness and the flaws in the character.      Paul    730  22:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * These people complain about how the show should be going, but when you read their fanfics, you think "thank fuck these people aren't on the writing staff."
 * I was genuinely horrified when Buffy said to let people die. Basically, Buffy and Fray see these vampire minions killing people; Fray says they should help the people, Buffy says they should let the people die and follow the vamps to their lair, putting an end to the whole villainous plan and saving more people in the long run.  Fray is disgusted, and ignores Buffy to go and "do our job".  Earlier in the season, Buffy inflicted fatal wounds on human soldiers while battling the US army, but had Willow heal the injuries in time.  The army general tells Buffy that she and the Slayers can't be trusted because they're essentially a master race whose power is demonic in nature; the Slayers are at war with the military.  Willow later asks Buffy if what they're doing is right, and whether she's really capable of "going all Slayer on humans".  Buffy says she doesn't know.  When Willow finds out Buffy robbed banks to fund their operation, Buffy claims that "it's only money" and is a victimless crime.  Willow argues that money changes everything, and Slayers acting above the law only proves the army right.  I think much of this ruthlessness comes from season seven; during that year, Buffy had to accept that she was leading innocent teenage girls to their death and I think it fucked her up a little bit.  Although I'm enjoying the story, I hope they don't go take Buffy too far to the point where she becomes, as you say, Faith.  I'm confidant the story will play out well, it's Buffy, it hasn't let me down so far.
 * What films did you buy, anything I would know? Lol, glad you got a bargain.  I keep wanting to have a Buffy marathon but SP and Smallville are stopping me.     Paul    730  23:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Break 8
I wasn't too bothered about the robbing banks; not saying I approve, but it wasn't a big deal for me. The letting people die thing was more shocking, I was uncomfortable with that, but I think I was meant to be. I'm sure it will be part of some arc where Buffy will realise her mistake, perhaps via Fray, since they'll probably resolve their differences by the end of this arc. I doubt the series will condone her actions, especially given previous examples where she was incapable of killing Ben and Warren. Not seen Unleashed but it's wiki page says it's set in Glasgow, so you'll see a bit of my exotic hometown. ;) I wasn't a big fan of Hellboy, but I keep meaning to buy True Lies.    Paul    730  00:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was the most recent issue. This storyline is taking forever to end... fucking Joss Whedon and his stupid delays. :( The trailer for Unleashed looked alright, although I didn't hear any Scottish accents despite it being set in Glasgow?  Lol, you had to buy them?  Do you own every single comic book movie purely out of completism?  Catwoman cannot possibly be as bad as everyone makes out, I haven't seen it but part of me wants to out of morbid curiosity.  I haven't seen True Lies in a while, so I don't remember all of it.  I caught a bit of a year or two ago and was like "hey, Faith's in this!"     Paul    730  05:21, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, how many DVDs do you think you own in total? I don't have that many, I have about two shelves' worth of "good" DVDs (even though some of them are crap, I still like them for whatever reason) that I consider my actual collection.  Then I have my shite pile, and another shite pile in the living room, which are DVDs I don't like or care about.  Lol, He-Man. :P  I watched the trailer on YouTube and Catwoman does not look that bad (I saw loads of clips back when they were marketing the film for theatres).  Is is not even bad in an enjoyable way, or is it simply painful?  What don't you like about it?     Paul    730  12:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When I buy DVDs I tend to buy them in bulk, they're so bloody cheap that it's impossible to resist all these bargains. :) But she's not meant to be the character from Batman, she's an original character (not saying that's a good thing). I'm well aware of how awful the film is considered in the media, but it surprises me that you hate it so much because you're usually pretty open minded about crap films.     Paul    730  14:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Me too, but's it's easier to be compulsed when they're at such low prices. I picked up Short Circuit for £2, I'm not sure whether to be grateful or offended by that. :) I've never heard of Rescue Me, don't think it's aired on terrestrial TV over here, but you should totally buy the US The Office.
 * I know it's still Catwoman but they're allowed to take liberties witht the source material. Rob Zombie's Halloween practically shat all over everything the original character stood for, but it was okay, because it was an adaptation.  I think Catwoman would have been a helluva lot better with Selina Kyle and Gotham and all that (why didn't it?) but I think "it's not like the comics" is a faulty criticism when they're obviously not trying to be like the comics.  I'm not defending the movie, but maybe I'll see it one day for the hell of it.     Paul    730  16:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I bought Short Circuit 2 first, and then found the first one by chance in another shop a week later. Lucky find, because I haven't seen it anywhere else.  These cult movies are so elusive, I can't find a region 2 Halloween II anywhere. :( My Halloween collection is so gappy, I'm missing II and a couple of the DDP comics. I glanced at the Rescue Me page, saw it was about a 9/11 firefighter and thought "huh, that looks boring".
 * Aw, I feel compelled to stand up for little Catwoman because it's so hated. Plus my friend said it was good.     Paul    730  21:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks. I'd looked on Amazon a couple times before but couldn't see any region 2's.  Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to buy something over the internet. :P I don't have access to a credit card and giving your bank details over the internet sounds kind of dodgy? :/    Paul    730  04:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how secure my computer is. Occasionally I get a "your computer is infected, you need to buy program X to clean it" pop up but I just dismiss it as spam.  I might look into the bank/credit card thing because I've been wanting to shop online for a while now.  The big shops I buy DVDs at are HMV and zavvi.     Paul    730  10:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I asked instore and they said they don't stock it anymore. And yet, they seem to have an unending supply of Halloween 5s!  Those sick bastards. ;)    Paul    730  22:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the thing that kills me is that HMV used to have it, but at the time I was happy with my video. Then as soon as my video player dies, they de-stock it.  There's a second hand DVD shop I go to sometimes (I'm a jake, sue me) so maybe it'll turn up there one day.     Paul    730  22:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Indiana Jones WikiProject Now Open!
I have finally created a WikiProject for Indiana Jones! Check it out. -- MISTER ALCOHOL  TC 21:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

FACR
Bignole, you posted at one or more of the recent discussions of short FAs. There's now a proposal to change the featured article criteria that attempts to address this. Please take a look and consider adding your comments to the straw poll there. Mike Christie (talk) 23:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Articles_for_deletion/List_of_traps_in_the_Saw_film_series_(2nd_nomination)
I was thinking of running this by deletion review because 8 out of the 12 "Delete Votes" were pretty much just "Cruft" will little else, and there were 12 "Keeps" as well, but I was wondering if I could get your thoughts first since you seem to know the most about writing about fictional subjects.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, I guess it'd probably just be a waste of time. Maybe I'll see what happens after Saw V came out. Thanks for the reply.--CyberGhostface (talk) 02:16, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, the cached article. Not sure what it was like right before deletion. — Erik  (talk • contrib) - 02:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Smallville
Hey there. I noticed you nominated all the character articles and the main page for GA status, and I just wanted to say I'm here to help. Anyways, have you considered spinning-off Lois Lane into her own article? It's taking a lot of space from the CoS page, and I'm guessing that since she has become more of a main character in this season, and potentially the next (if there is one), real-world info will just keep on coming. What do you think?  Corn.u.co.pia /  Disc.us.sion  09:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, I guess I am quite a bit behind. That article is already looking quite good; I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the mainspace soon. ;)  Corn.u.co.pia /  Disc.us.sion  09:09, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Pirates of the Caribbean budget
Do you remember where you linked the article about Disney refusing to disclose the budget of the Pirates sequels? Alientraveller (talk) 11:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

GA nominations
Hello, I noticed that you have a few articles nominated at WP:GAN. If you could review one or more good article nominations to help reduce the backlog and waiting time, it would be greatly appreciated. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor, if you wish. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:22, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Buffy template
It's fixed now. The reason why it was saying REDIRECT and then the page is because it was a double redirect. It was being redirected to Buffy the Vampire Slayernav and then redirected from there to Buffynav. It's fixed and should show up properly. If it doesn't, let me know. Btw, in these cases where you have lots of pages using the template, redirect is always the best option. Why? Because otherwise you have to change the reference to the template on literally hundreds of pages. In this case it was well over 500. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 13:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Section length, Book titles, et al.
Hi. Can you read this section and then offer your opinion on the points raised, specifically the issue of titles in the FCB, length and detail of given sections, what constitutes “fannishness”, etc.? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 14:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: IMDb
User:Bignole/Future films and reference guidelines has some details, too. Ease up in the discussion, though, will ya? You sound a little combative. — Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I messaged the other editor to lighten up his tone as well, but he wasn't as reciprocative. No matter; while I'd like to have rational discourse about the external links, I don't want to get aggravated if nothing happens.  By the way, I'm not so much for the WP:RS argument since it detracts a little from the core argument.  We're having it one way or another, so it seems better to argue against the redundancy.  My courses are alright; some interesting approaches that I hadn't seen in my undergraduate curriculum.  I'm on the job hunt, too... was in Virgina last week to interview with IBM.  Will be going to Chicago, IL next week to interview with KPMG and Atlanta, GA a week or two after to interview with General Electric.  Real world is coming up fast.  How about you? — Erik  (talk • contrib) - 04:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I go to all of my courses, partially because the person who provides accommodations in my courses comes all the way from another state. Kind of good incentive to show up; he and I have become friends over the years.  Some courses do suck, though... in the two longer courses I've had (2.5 or 3 hours), we've had to sit through other teams' presentations.  Hard to care for their presentations when we all got the same assignment.  There is actually role-playing in one class I have that just takes place during presentations (the professor being the client, basically).  For jobs, I'm pulling for IBM, I think.  I want to be in the Washington, DC area since I have family and friends there, and there is a deaf and hard of hearing professional community.  Lots of advocacy groups, and lots to do in DC, Virginia, and Maryland.  I'm trying to see about a position with Booz Allen Hamilton there, too.  KPMG is mostly accounting, but there is an IT advisory branch that may be worthwhile.  I've also interviewed with Infosys Consulting, General Mills, and Exxon Mobil.  This week is Abbott Laboratories and Whirlpool Corporation.  Lots going on. :)  I'm pretty good with behavioral interviews; case interviews are a little trickier.  Too much thinking on the feet for me.  Got a preference on where you'll end up? — Erik  (talk • contrib) - 04:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to admit, I put WP:NOT on my watchlist to see how this disruptive WP:PLOT situation pans out. Quite a character... anyway, sounds like you have a lot of variables to track in your career path.  Seems a little tricky to get two people's careers to line up; always made me wonder how the heck high school sweethearts stay together with all the mobility in academics and the workplace, especially in today's world.  I have to agree with you on city life... I'm more of a suburban person, and if I got a job in DC, I'd probably be in the suburbs of VA or MD.  To be honest, I still don't know what my ideal career is (other than editing Wikipedia's film articles for pay), but I've never been that motivated by profit.  Just wanted to live comfortably, ya know?  Though my friends who aren't business majors joke that they want to have a ride on my yacht someday...  I hope that being in the DC area will at least open me up to career opportunities where the amount in your wallet isn't that important.  Who knows, maybe there'll be a Wiki Meetup in DC where we can meet up and rant about our peeves with Wikipedia outside its transparency. :) — Erik  (talk • contrib) - 05:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Film Infobox RFC
Hi Bignole, just wanted to let you know that in case things are not going to get under control and the RFC keeps getting commented by previous participants in the dispute, the RFC may become invalid. Currently the first comment in there is from a previous participant and therefor the RFC may be considered invalid already. since it can be argued that it had influence on next comments. therefore I hope as you started the RFC you could put some efforts in there to keep things under control so that the RFC wouldn't end up being another waste of time again. thanks!--Termer (talk) 03:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * regarding Garion96, he has been in favout of removing the link all together from the infobox since 22:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Please do not make it too easy for me to challenge this RFC as invalid, since the idea of RFC is to get a third opinion upon which a consensus could be built. Since the first comment in the RFC is from previous participant, and in favor of removing the links, the RFC has lost it's purpose. I'd suggest start all over again, or as a good faith gesture, I'm willing to let it get away this time in case all the comments from previous participants get removed ASAP so that a 3rd opinion can express their views and help sorting it out.--Termer (talk) 04:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to let you know that I wouldn't have anything else to add other than I already said in my previous post above. Good luck with finding a consensus after this RFC has been closed!--Termer (talk) 04:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation re:RfC
Thanks, your explanation was perfectly understandable. I'm not sure how much sense it makes (the policy, I mean, not your explanation), but that's another matter... Ed Fitzgerald t / c 04:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Chat (2)
Hey, I picked up The Lost Boys today. It was pretty good, I enjoyed it. Especially David, he was cool and sexy. The whole film was cool and sexy. Although it kind of degenerated into cheesy SFX near the end, but that's okay. I also picked up the complete seasons 1 - 10 boxset of Friends (weren't you going to buy that for your girlfriend?) so I probably won't be watching Smallville again for a while. :P   Paul    730  00:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I enjoyed it but I don't love it. Most of the people I asked about it claimed it was one of their favourite childhood movies, so maybe it makes a stronger impression at a certain age. :) I got all 10 seasons of Friends in a fancy box for only £50 - I love the lead up to xmas, the DVDs are always dirt cheap (I have a real cheap streak that you might have noticed).  I still like Smallville, but come on, I watched it almost continuously for over four seasons, a little break never hurt anyone.  Plus the last few episodes I watched were kind of boring so I'm not desperate to get back to it.  Speaking of Smallville, would you really categorise Clark as a "vigilante"?  To me, that term has illegal connotations that would apply to Batman or Punisher or somebody, but not Clark Kent.  (Even though he tecnically is one.)     Paul    730  01:05, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, I removed that category. Btw, I was reading this cool interview with Halloween writer Stefan Hutchinson.  He talks about the remake, the difference between Michael and Jason, and his opinions regarding Michael's powers.  I'm going to rake through it for the article later, but I thought I'd show it to you in case you were interested as a fan.     Paul    730  01:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw Child's Play for the first time last night... it was pretty terrible, but kind of enjoyable I have to admit. The little boy's acting was pretty painful.  I kind of want to see the last two movies now, because they seem to take themselves less seriously than the first one.  Halloween: The First Death of Laure Strode #1 was excellent, it really feels like a continuation of the first two movies.  We get to see Annie's funeral, and they flesh out a few unseen characters like Sally (the girl Alice was on the phone to in II) and Laurie's pervy neigbour Mr. Riddle.  There's also some soap opera where Laure is blaming her parents for the ordeal because they never told her about Michael, and we see her kind of hardening into who she'll become in H20.  I also picked up Psycho I - III... I've never seen the sequels, are they any good?     Paul    730  22:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I meant the actual last ones, they seem like comedies rather than horrors. I found it hard to take the first one seriously because of it's ludicrous concept.  Sorry Chucky, you're not scary at all.  Freaky maybe, but not scary.  Laurie Strode is a three(?) issue comic series.  It'll be out in a collection eventually if you ever wanted it.  As you can probably guess from the title, it's about Loomis helping Laurie fake her death.  The first issue didn't even have any on-panel murders (unless you count young Michael's disturbing fantasy about killing his pregnant mother) but the characterization is rock solid.  There's some sad moments where Laurie visits a brain damaged Jimmy, and talks about Ben Tramer's death.  The whole story is just perfect Halloween. :)
 * I know there's a fourth Psycho but I heard it's all retconny and crap so I don't mind ignoring it (plus the boxset I bought didn't include it). II and III seem fairly respected for horror sequels, from what I've heard.  There's a Hellraiser I - III boxset I want to get as well.     Paul    730  22:53, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, Laurie says "something happened to him at the hospital" and now he suffers amnesia and seizures. Plus his mother blames Laurie for what happened, and doesn't like her visiting him.  So much for the Jimmy-is-John's-father theory.  I'll probably pick up the other Chuckys at some point, but I've spent way too much money on DVDs lately, I need to cut back for a while.  Yeah, there's some cool boxsets but hardly any of them are complete.  There's a Hellraiser boxset that looks like the puzzle box, but that's more expensive than the one I want and has the same films.  They recently brought out that Crystal Lake to Manhatten boxset over here, which kind of annoys me because I bought all the Fridays individually last summer.
 * The Lois article is small but I think there's enough to justify a split from the character article. I always thought she should have her own article.  I'll keep my eyes open for sources... a quick Google search brought up this and this, which you might already have.     Paul    730  14:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The comic picks up days after HII, and a few months pass across the story. I think the story will conclude before Halloween 1979, but that's just a guess.  Why you do not like brain damaged Jimmy?  He can still talk normally, there's a nice scene where he tells Laurie not to blame herself, and then his mother comes and undermines that advice by being very hostile to her.  I always liked the idea of a Laurie/Jimmy relationship, but I guess that's something else Michael took away from her, in an indirect sort of way.  I still like to think he was Jamie's father in the Thornverse though.
 * What do you mean, they'll be releasing a full boxset of all 12 films? I thought that was impossible because of the studio differences.  I think I'd just stick with my individual DVDs, to be honest.     Paul    730  14:58, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

When was it ever confirmed Jimmy's name was "Lloyd"? That's pure fanon as far as I know. It's nice to hear WB and Paramount cooperating. I remember we had an all-inclusive Halloween boxset out here a few years ago (the one featured on the franchise article) but it doesn't seem to be available anymore, sadly. Not sure what the legal stuff was behind that.  Paul    730  16:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's just fanwank, I think. Merrick and Pike from Buffy have fan-made names on IMDb.  The Halloween is plagued by rights issues.  Stefan Hutchinson has implied that they legally can't do certain things in the comics.  A lot of fans have asked him to write stories set in the Thornverse (which I would love, I like H4 - H6 as an alternate universe) and he's hinted that he's not allowed.  Also, when asked if John Tate would ever appear, he got quite defensive and mentioned legal stuff.  I'm guessing Josh Hartnett won't let his likeness be used in a Halloween comic or something.  Which is a shame, I like John.     Paul    730  16:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (this comment is late because my internet crashed) I was going through various articles linking to the new Lois article, and it occurred to me that there's no introduction for the character in Clark's article. She's mentioned here and there, but the article never explains who she is or her significance.  Any idea where to provide this context for martians who've never heard of her?     Paul    730  19:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought about mentioning her introduction in the season 4 section of Appearances, but didn't want to break up all the Jor-El mythology stuff.    Paul    730  20:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about "Clark's return in season four coincided with the introduction of Lois Lane, Superman's girlfriend in the DC Comics universe." Then going into detail about the Jor-El stuff.  22:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I noticed just after I left you that message. :) It's fine.  Should we not mention Lois' role in the comics?     Paul    730  22:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

How would you feel about switching the Clark image for this one? I know it's not the red-and-blue combo like we wanted, but it's a better view of his face. His squinty expression in the screenshot is currently my only annoyance with that page.  Paul    730  23:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't remember Chloe ever being so heavily made up in the show. :P (I'm kidding, her image is fine.) Hmph, it's a pity CW won't release the digitally altered version of that image that they use on their home page, they CGed his clothes red and blue. That's easily the hottest picture of Tom Welling I've seen, but I agree the all-black look isn't Clark.  The AC picture would be much better than the screenshot IMO.     Paul    730  23:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Much improved. :) I prefer the more Smallville-esque background as well. Btw, this is just a suggestion, but how about a Jonathan and Martha Kent (Smallville) article?  Between them, they have lots of info on the character article, and Ma and Pa Kent sets the precedent for a shared article.  Just an idea.     Paul    730  23:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I just find it weird how two of the most significant characters in the show are relegated to a general character article, and thought that their combined info could justify an independant page.  I'm not opposed to small articles (I really like the Lois page even though I know you think it's too short) but it's your call.  Speaking of old Jonathan, I watched that episode with his ghost the other night... average episode, but great scene.  Made me miss the character.  Also watched "Fragile" (really good, the little girl grew on me as a character) and "Mercy" (total Saw rip-off but a good Lionel ep).     Paul    730  00:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "Mercy" was a nice "heroic" moment for Lionel, since I'm usually so suspicious of him. You have such a cheek to complain about Faith's sporadic appearances, Milton Fine has been MIA for ages now, I totally forgot about him. :P I might finish the season tonight, depends how tired I am.  I'm working a backshift tommorow, so I can stay up late and sleep in.  I'm watching through Friends as well, but that requires no real concentration and I'm on the so-so first season right now anyway.  Any idea when you're going to watch Buffy season five?     Paul    730  00:34, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Faith's absences can be explained away by the Scoobies' failure to include her. It was you who complained that her appearances should have been grouped together for tighter storytelling, I'm making the same point about Fine; his story has lost momentum (though, admittedly, that's partly because I stopped watching for a few weeks, but still).  I still disagree with you about Faith, her arc works better as a gradual decline in loyalty, rather than lots of Faith episodes in a row.
 * I keep thinking you have season five. I ended up watching Homeward Bound II instead of Smallville, another childhood classic.  I think I'll continue the nostalgic trend by watching Jumanji tomorrow night.  I was never a big fan of Robocop, the first movie was okay, but the sequels were just depressing.  Btw, have you seen this AfD?  I just know it's going to survive again.     Paul    730  03:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd rather the character of Faith wasn't watered down by playing set-furniture like Oz. Shoehorning her into episodes unnecessarily just to remind audiences she exists would be wasting the actress.  She had no reason to appear in every episode, she's not a student at the school or dating one of the main characters or something.  The characters go to her when they need her, and that's apparent by her few appearances.  The Faith storyline is brilliantly plotted and I won't have a bad word said about it. :P
 * Wasn't sure if you'd like Homeward Bound, given their sappy family fun nature (as opposed to horror/sci fi which is obviously your niche). The scene in the first one where Sassy is washed down the river always really upsets me.  I was obsessed with Jumanji as a child and still love it.  Have you seen Zathura?  I know it's the "spiritual sequel" to Jumanji and based on a book by the same author, but I dunno.  I remember watching the first 20 minutes of the third Robocop before switching off out of boredom.  Frank Miller always seems to have sand in his vagina about something.
 * I agree with you, but sometimes I wonder if Wikipedia policies defeat the purpore of the site. Before learning about policy, I used to come here for plot and fanboy trivia, and I know other people who do.  I'm not saying such info should be encouraged, but I do feel like a killjoy sometimes.  I can't see why people don't just use Wikia for that stuff. :(     Paul    730  04:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Like I said, Faith's appearances are fine IMO. Besides, once she kills the deputy mayor, she appears more or less continuously for the rest of the season, which each episode furthering her "evil" arc in either drastic or subtle ways.  I've not seen those Disney movies.  I'd like to see Zathura for more Jumanji, but the concept is so different I'm not sure it would give me what I want.  Those jumped-up writers always have something to complain about, and before you say anything, yes I am including Joss Whedon in the mix.  Brian Lynch, who writes Angel: After the Fall, is starting to piss me off.  I thought he seemed really nice, based on interviews and podcasts, but he keeps attacking and insulting fans who criticise his work on forums.  He even got angry with the guy who draws Buffy because he mentioned that he didn't like the Angel comic.  The guy needs to learn how to take criticism, especially since his series isn't even that great.
 * I wish Wikia was a genuine sister site of Wikipedia, like Wikionary, but because it's an independant thing, it's not really appropiate to link in the body of an article like that. I just don't understand why people are so reluctant to use that site even when they know it exists.  I edit and read Wikia all the time.     Paul    730  13:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Break

 * A lot of people complain about Angel's accent, I can't say it ever really bothered me. Consensus seems to be that it was the worst part of David Boreanaz' performance (although I've heard the same criticism leveled at Glen Quinn/Doyle and he was actually Irish, so...)  As for it disappearing, I thought it just gradually faded after he moved west but I don't think they put much effort into showing that decline across the various flashbacks.  Yeah, of course I remember Murphy.  He was the guy who was stalking you and Erik and wanted to "out" you.  I remember thinking he was a scary nutjob.  Brian Lynch is nowhere near as bad as him, but he's gotten a little passive agressive towards fans who say they don't like his series, even when they express that dislike articulately and politely.  Then when they pull him up for it, he claims he was just kidding, and they shouldn't dish it out if they can't take it back.  One fan got so upset they reported him, and he was like "yeah, why don't just try and get me banned".  I respect writers who communicate with fans online, but when they start getting into petty feuds, it's rather embarassing and unprofessional.
 * The adverts on Wikia are annoying, but they go away when you log into your account so they're pretty harmless.    Paul    730  20:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Quinn's accent was natural and written into the part specifically for him. There's a few more flashbacks of Angel scattered through the 20th century; we see him arrive in America in 1902 and he never really leaves.  After that, he seems to speak in a more or less American accent.
 * We've talked about Blade before, I'm not a fan. Hated the first movie, couldn't even make it through the second one.  I really don't know what it is I don't like about them, the characters just aren't likable to me.  Blade is such a reject Marvel character, he never appears in anything.  He's only really famous for his films.     Paul    730  20:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Accents are funny things. My best friend is English and has a London accent but all through school he put on a Scottish accent to fit in.  Now that he's left school, he ditched the Scottish accent and can't do it anymore.  I think Glen Quinn's accent is convincing, but then I don't really have a problem with Boreanaz's (although Quinn's is a lot better).  There's a funny line in Angel where Cordelia mistakes Doyle's accent for English, and he gets a little offended.
 * I like the concept of Blade, a vampire-fighting superhero in the Marvel Universe, but the character is just boring. He doesn't seem to have any kind of humanity to make him engaging.  I think he has his own series at the moment, but it never crosses over into anything so I never really notice him.  I know the comic code or whatever were touchy about horror comics back in the day, banning vampires and that kind of stuff.  Btw, something that's been bugging me, shouldn't the Clark image be uploaded under a different filename, since the current title doesn't make sense anymore?  I know it's not really important but I thought I'd ask.     Paul    730  22:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't do other accents, but I speak in a very thick Scottish accent and use a lot of Scottish slang. I have a habit of using the word "pure" as an intensifier, "That episode was pure good", which is common in Glasgow.  However, I use more American slang when I'm "talking" online.  My speech is a weird hybrid of Scottish English and Valspeak, because of my love for US pop culture.  Lol, I'm going to hear you in my head as a redneck now just for the fun of it.  Angel's accent isn't great, but it's not the worst Buffyverse accent by a long shot.  Drusilla is a contender for that, but I have to say that Molly (a cockney Potential in season 7) takes the prize.  Kendra is pretty interesting, but I have no idea what her accent is supposed to sound like, to know whether it's accurate or not.     Paul    730  22:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Kendra was Jamacian. :P Apparently her accent was based on some really specific, obscure part of Jamaica, so for all we know, it could have been accurate. It's weird, the English accents in Buffy are usually awful (except for Giles, Wes, and to a lesser extent Spike) and in Doctor Who, the American accents are awful (except for Jack).  We can never get the best of both worlds. :) I always cringe at how Scottish accents are written in comic books, with characters like Moira MacTaggart and Wolfsbane.  It's like "Ah dinna ken how ye dae that."  Urgh.     Paul    730  23:25, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, it was "I don't know how you do that." It was just a random sentence as an example. :P    Paul    730  23:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks pretty cool. They seem have got the atmosphere of the classic Fridays very accurate.  The only thing which made me cringe was the incredibly wooden voice over from Mrs. Voorhees.  Jeez lady, put some expression into your voice, you sound like you're reading the script for the first time.    Paul    730  04:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Urgh, what if it turned out "Jason" was Mrs. Voorhees in a mask? That would be crap.  Btw, I bought a Friday the 13th graphic novel today, collecting Pamela's Tale, Abuser and the Abused, Bad Land, and How I Spent My Summer Vacation.  Pamela's Tale wasn't very good, they portrayed Young Jason like Michael Myers in the Halloween remake; he kills small animals for fun.  I don't like that suggestion, as far as I'm concerned, Jason was a nice kid until he drowned.  Summer Vacation was much better, they had Jason in an anti-hero role, with Davie (the deformed kid) as his sidekick.  It was fun and I liked the sympathetic characterization of Jason.  Overall, the book was okay, not sure if I'd recommend it.   Paul    730  16:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I was half serious; the F13 movies have screwed their fans over in the past, and it would give Mrs. Voorhees an active role. You're probably right about the 7 feet tall thing though. :) The only thing I didn't like about Summer Vacation was the annoying hillbilly sheriff who was the real villain of the story.  Abuser and the Abused is interesting; we see a girl much like Jason who feels victimised by her family and peers and decides to take revenge.  However, Jason kills her anyway, even though she hugs him and pleads "we're the same!".  It was kind of sad, but also funny, especially with the wholesome Silver Age-style artwork.  I'd buy the Halloween comics before the Friday ones if I were you, they have more weight to them.  They feel like an important part of universe while the F13 ones are mostly apocryphal.     Paul    730  18:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's less to do with "twisted continuity"; the comics are pretty clear about the fact they take place in the H20-verse and ignore the other timelines. I think it's more that the retcon in H20 left 20 years of unexplored continuity that the comics writers could fill in, how Laurie faked her death, how Loomis died, as well as other events involving Michael.  It ties into eveything very well, but has enough creative freedom that it doesn't feel like filler (unlike the old Buffy comic, which had to squeeze stories between episodes, and couldn't do anything important as a result).  The F13 stories dont't even try to tie into the films, they're pretty standalone. The only one that connects to the films is Pamela's Tale, and it does an okay job except for the "young-Jason-is-a-psycho" part.  It would be nice if they did something that tied into the movies, like a story spotlighting one of the survivors, or how the government captured Jason pre-X.  Then again, Nightdance was pretty standalone, so maybe it just comes down to "Halloween is better than Friday the 3th". :P    Paul    730  15:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Apart from Season of the Witch and Resurrection, I'd say all the Halloween are better movies than any of the Fridays. They had far more interesting characters and were simply better-made films. That said, the Friday the 13ths were proud of their crappiness, so I'm not dissing them. They knew what they were, which the Halloweens really didn't after the original.  Paul    730  18:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Return is a perfectly solid Halloween film, the only real problem with it is Michael himself (his mask sucks and they made him too agressive). Revenge is the worst Halloween (except for Resurrection, which I'm discounting from my argument because I like to pretend it doesn't exist), but it's still entertaining.  Curse is more contentious, I don't agree that the Thorn story was the right way to go, but I guess I respect them for trying something different and in light of the H20-retcon, it can be enjoyed as an alternate universe.  I think the story in Curse had lot of potential, it was just executed in a rather dull and confusing way.  One thing I will say about the Halloweens is that they're memorable; each film has it's own distinct personality, whereas the Fridays blur into each other.  The hero characters in Halloween, even the bad movies, are a lot better written and acted than the F13 ones.  The only real standout hero from the Friday movies is Tommy.  It's hard to compare the two series because I judge them so differently.  The Halloween sequels have to live up to this amazing, perfect movie so they have to try harder to be good.  The F13 movies were always enjoyable trash so they can afford to be crap because they don't have a reputation to live up to.  I think the Halloween sequels are better quality films, but the Fridays are usually more fun to watch because they're not being compared to a masterpiece.  (Oh, and F13 might have went into space, but they nicked that idea from Halloween, which just says it all.  Jason goes through bins for Michael's cast offs. :P)     Paul    730  17:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Aw, don't discount Jason X, that's one of my favourite Fridays. :P "Perfect" and "gold" used in reference to the Friday the 13th movies?! LMAO!  Come on, the original Halloween is gold, the Friday the 13ths are... copper.  Jason is a blatant Michael Myers rip-off, but I think it's kind of sad that as Jason developed his own identity, Michael degenerated into a bland Jason-clone. :( The Halloween movies jump around a lot in quality while the Fridays are more consistantly enjoyable.  I probably care more about the Halloweens because I loved them as a child and it took me a long time to find each film, whereas I watched almost all the Fridays in a row a lot later.     Paul    730  18:16, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone rips off everyone but Michael and Jason have more in common than most slasher villains. It's pretty obvious the two copied from each other over the years.  Jason's probably the better characterized of the two, because I think more writers "got" him than they did Michael.     Paul    730  21:06, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Important discussion
Talk:Batman (1989 film). Thanks. Wildroot (talk) 23:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Your merge proposal
I see that you want to merge Halloween (video game) with Halloween (franchise). Well this won't work out since the franchise is about the movie while the other is about the game. So I disagree.--Megaman en m (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Chat
Yeah, Michael was a blank slate with no humanity so any attempts to develop the character are seen as "de-mystifying". He's a hard character to write. Thanks but I'll pass on the archive bot, I don't mind doing it myself (and I'm starting a new section so our old convo will get archived). Also, have you noticed there's a couple of unsigned comments at the top of your page that aren't being archived?  Paul    730  21:23, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Two episodes to go, the last one with the invisible assasin guy was okay. What's the finale like this season, you might have already told me?  I'm dragging my heels with Smallville because of my Friends boxset.  You a Friends fan?  You told me your girlfriend likes it, but what about you?    Paul    730  21:57, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Friends is the sitcom to end all sitcoms. I hadn't watched it in years before buying these DVDs so it's fun reliving all these old episodes.     Paul    730  23:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Aren't Friends and Seinfeld "canon" with each other? I'm pretty sure Friends crossed into something, then that crossed into Seinfeld.  I think the same thing happened with Friends and Fraiser; they both crossed over into the same show, which then causes a headache because Joey is seen watching Cheers in an episode of Friends.  It's like one big sitcom-verse... confusing.  Anyway, yeah, WP:PLOT... I agree with you but I'm not sure I can offer anything to that discussion you haven't already articulated.  It surprises me that policy is so controversial.     Paul    730  00:45, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you're missing my point. Friends crossed over with Mad About You (in fact, Ursula first appeared in that show and was retconned to be Phoebe's twin sister).  And Mad About You has crossed over with Seinfeld, so Friends and Seinfeld are presumably the same universe due to that indirect connection.  Also, Chandler appeared in Caroline in the City, which crossed over with Frasier.  Like I said, it's confusing.  Before we know it Freddy Krueger will be having coffee with Predator in Central Perk. :P    Paul    730  01:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What can I say, fictional universes and continuity interests me. It's weird to think that A Nightmare on Elm Street and Jason X are the same universe, or that Spider-Man and Jason are connected via Freddy vs Jason vs Ash and Marvel Zombies vs Army of Darkness.  Btw, total change of conversation, but are you going to see Quantum of Solace?     Paul    730  01:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, it's canon, deal with it. I probably won't go to see it, but I'll look forward to the DVD.  Casino Royale kind of reinstated my interest in Bond.  I read a bad review of QoS on IGN so I'm pretty interested to hear other people's opinions of it.  IGN said it's a good movie, but it doesn't live up to what Casino Royale set up, with the whole vengeance stuff.  They said it was "disappointing".  But then, IGN often talk shite, so...    Paul    730  01:57, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Marc Forster's a fabulous director Bignole. And it's not like Campbell's made his fair share of stinkers. Alientraveller (talk) 13:38, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I picked up that Buffy movie a few weeks ago. I haven't watched it yet, though I did give it the honor of being placed in the "Buffy" section of my room next to my boxsets and comic books, rather than the cupboard with my other DVDs. There's a few future stars in it, Ben Affleck plays a basketball player and Seth Green played the school geek-turned-vamp but got cut out. How did the film compare to your childhood memory of it? I also picked up Hulk and Iron Man a while ago, in fact I just watched Iron Man a couple of hours ago, fucking awesome film. I just love how all the CGI and bells and whistles are totally immaterial compared to the wonderful characters. :)   Paul    730  23:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, "how funky is your chicken"... that's like the best moment in that film. I don't remember Ricki Lake in it, I'll keep an eye out.  Buffy is more of a fighter in the show, I don't really remember any scenes in the movie where she goes all out and kicks someone's ass.  She does little jumps and stuff but nothing like in the show.  I like the scene with Pike too.  Merricks death in the movie is a lot better than his "canon" death.  In the comic, he shoots himself so Lothos doesn't find out Buffy's identity.  Not only is that kind of pointless (since Benny finds out who she is later on anyway) but there isn't the brilliant "do it wrong" advice that Merrick gives to Buffy on his deathbed.  That line basically sums up Buffy as a Slayer and annoys me that it wasn't in the comic.  The principal was awful, the scene where he hands detention slips to dead bodies makes me cringe.  I've not seen Jumper but I remember my boss telling me it was good?     Paul    730  00:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't remember Swanson's kick in the movie... and Merrick's death probably was corny, my memory of this film is very patchy. Not sure why they removed the cramps thing, maybe they felt super-PMT was a rather blunt way of delivering the feminist theme?  Can't remember if it was in Joss' original script.  They make vague reference to it in the pilot, where Giles tells Buffy she should be able to sense vamps but none of the other Slayers have it either.  The principal in the movie is reborn on the show as Principal Flutie, so I suppose his legacy lived on for a little bit.  The movie had good lines but the whole execution felt rather cheap and tacky IMO.  The bland vampire SFX is particularly poor when you're used to the TV vamps.  I'll probably never watch Jumper tbh.  What did you think of Incredible Hulk, that's the first time you've seen it isn't it?     Paul    730  14:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've read a couple of reviews which compared it unfavourably to Lee's film, how it was just a CGI smash fest whereas Lee's version had more going on subtextually or whatever. I prefer Incredible, it was a lot more fun and I like how it's part of the larger Avengers-film universe.  I never watched the old Hulk show so I didn't really notice the parallels (I think I recognised the music) but it's nice they're acknowledging a series that probably has more to do with Hulk's fame than the comic itself.  I'm not a fan of the CGI in the movie, but it's impossible to make Hulk look real so I'll let it go.  I guess it's as good as it can be.  You doing anything for Halloween tommorow, btw?     Paul    730  21:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the characterization was a lot better IMO. Although Betty did annoy me, I must admit, her performance was too "breathy".  Do you always drive down to your girlfriends' at the weekend?  I'm not doing anything either, I'll probably watch the original Halloween out of tradition.  Also, the second one's on TV tonight.     Paul    730  06:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)