User talk:Bikramjit De

Redirect
Okay, it looks to me like this redirect shouldn't be here; I don't think you're the same person as User:B de 2002, and it was due to some long ago page moves that this redirect ended up here. If this is in error, please explain. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Barun De
Why are you re-adding that unacceptable information to Barun De? I'm sure you're the same user as before, with whom I had long conversations on my talk page. You know our rules. You should know that making a new account doesn't change our rules, or how you need to edit. Please don't re-add unsourced, trivial information to that or other articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwyrxian (talk • contribs) 22:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I am readding anything. I am editing large chunks of unnecessary materials. There is no need for separate sections entitled 'academic' and 'administrative'. All of it can come under on heading, i.e. 'career'. I was sprucing up the page so that space could be saved and the article looked more concise. Also, Basanta Kumar De's designation was Commercial Traffic Manager, not Chief of Traffics. That was written incorrectly, and this correction was long overdue. I think you would do well not to revert that again. I am changing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bikramjit De (talk • contribs)

Your recent edits
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment; or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button (Insert-signature.png or Signature icon.png) located above the edit window.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 16:11, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Raychaudhuri
Hi. I added a picture from commons. Could you check that it is the right person? Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 22:19, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is the same person. Nice photo of a nice man. But, please, could I request you to add a picture of my father, Barun De, as well? I don't know the technology, or else I would have. Thanks in anticipation. Bikramjit De
 * I'll see if I can find something. It has to be in the public domain and that's not easy. If you have a picture that you've taken yourself, you can upload it to Wikimedia commons or here (use the "Upload file" link under Toolbox on the left) and someone will move it to commons. Make sure you clearly specify that it is your own work or the image will get deleted! --regentspark (comment) 23:10, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Barun De
As it happens the Oxford University Calender states that my father, Barun De, was awarded the degree of D.Phil. by Nuffield College, Oxford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.140.181.199 (talk) 20:37, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Multiple accounts
,

Why have you been operating multiple accounts and editing the same articles using them? As, where you self identify as Bikramjit De in your first edit, you have been editing since 2007. On various talk pages, including mine you are presenting a newbie persona of someone who doesn't know anything about Wikipedia and can't even sign his name.
 * Starting with your second edit on WP as, you created the pages for (see here)
 * your father Barun De, 21 May 2007
 * your great grandfather Brajendranath De, 21 May 2007
 * your great aunt Saroj Nalini Dutt, 24 May 2007
 * your paternal great uncle Sarat Kumar Ghosh, 27 June 2007
 * your father's institute: Maulana Abul Kalam Azad Institute of Asian Studies, 28 June 2007
 * cousin of your great-grandfather Siddheshwar Mitter, 25 October 2007
 * your cousin Uma Bose ("his niece the well-known vocalits ...")
 * and a number of Guptas (Krishna Govinda Gupta, Behari Lal Gupta, who may or may not be related to your maternal grandmother (whose maiden name was the same)

Pages have been attempted for you grandfather, Basanta Kumar De‎,the railway official, which were deleted twice. As it turns out many people in your family are notable people, so your edits are very welcome. Also, there should be no conflict of interest as long as you are not making WP:UNDUE edits. However, your rude sarcastic messages on user:Sitush's talk page and feigned guilelessness and humility on mine give me pause.

As for your suggestions on which "South Asian academics" to add or expand, you are a seasoned Wikipedian, if you think they need expanding, you can do it yourself. It is an encyclopedia anyone can edit as you have known for six years now. Btw, Rajnarayan Chandavarkar, William Roger Louis and Gordon Johnson (historian) already have pages, and Hilton, Hill, Thompson, Louis, and George Holmes (historian) have little to do with South Asia. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  11:52, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 1. I have not been using multiple accounts. I was using B_de2002 earlier, but have found that to have either closed down or inoperable, so I now have opened an account with my full name, i.e. Bikramjit De. I think it is better to identify oneself, lest there is confusion regarding the identity of the editor, so I have given my own name. If you feel this is unacceptable, do suggest a way in which this problem can be dealt with. Alternative as an editor you can always cancel out either of the two or both the accounts. I won't mind that in the slightest bit. 2. All the pages you mention here were indeed started by myself. All these men were notable in South Asia in their time, but if you feel they should be deleted, or modified or turned into stubs then please do so. I had started them quite a few years back. It's been a while, there's been a sea change in my life since, and I think I should be getting on with other more urgent things. If on the other hand you want to keep them, then that is your right as well, but please, if I could kindly request you not to misrepresent the information that I had initially given on these pages. 3. Bihari Lal Gupta and K.G. Gupta were not members of my maternal family. Sarat Dutta Gupta, whose page has been deleted too, was my maternal great grandfather. He was a member of the Indian Audit and Accounts Service and became the Accountant General of India before retirement. 4. I was not rude or sarcastic with anybody. I was on the other hand snubbed a few times on the net. My father's page, opened by myself, was edited and locked without my knowledge. But that too was the prerogative of the editors. I did not reopen the page, nor will I if it is locked again. And I showed no feigned guilelessness or humility to anybody else either. 5. The names of the British historians I mention were all household names in India in the 1970s to the 1990s. I mentioned them because I grew up to respect them. It is entirely up to the editors to decide if pages should be opened on them on the Wikipedia. And finally, sorry for not signing out properly, since I don't know how to do that here on the Wikipedia. I am signing out my name. Bikramjit De
 * Bikramjit, you can (and should) sign your posts on talk pages using 4 tildes (the ~ character). Or, look for a button that looks like a pencil at the top of the edit box and just click on it. Try it out on WP:Sandbox. --regentspark (comment) 14:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, RegentsPark.Bikramjit De (talk) 15:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Bikramjit, I just realized that you did post on my talk page explaining the reason for changing to the new user name and acknowledging that you have edited since 2007. (See here.)  I apologize for not reading you earlier post carefully.  No one would be more pleased than I if you continued to contribute to Wikipedia, especially if you expanded the various historians' stubs that we have mentioned.  There are many others who don't have pages, not just David Washbrook (now at Trinity College, Cambridge), but, off the top of my head, also Anil Seal (Trinity), Peter Robb (SOAS London), David Ludden (UPenn), Andre Wink (Wisconsin), Richard Eaton (Arizona), Mark Harrison (Cambridge, Public Health in British India), Susan Bayly (Historical anthropologist), and so forth.  Even the old historians such as Vincent Arthur Smith and Percival Spear have little more than stubs.  The guidelines are very simple; see Core content policies. So, welcome to Wikipedia and I hope you have a enjoyable and productive time here.  I understand that you are busy, as many of us are as well, but we contribute in whatever snatches of time we can find.  Again, many apologies for the misunderstanding.  Best regards,  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  17:39, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fowler & fowler, Thanks again for the note. My knowledge of all these eminent historians is limited and I may not be the best person to contribute to any page opened on them. I know their names and have read some of their works, but that's all. I contribute to my father's page because he was my father. I can claim to know about him not only as his son but also as his student. I do appreciate your concerns with the maintenance of high standards of publication on the Wikipedia, which is entirely fair, and which I shall indeed observe and follow.Bikramjit De (talk) 19:14, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013
This is your last warning. The next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Siddhartha Shankar Ray, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. ''I have had enough of your frequent additions of unsourced information to various biographical articles, despite numerous attempts to explain our procedures. You hold an academic position and and your command of the English language is just fine, so the only obvious rationales for your continued flouting of our policies and guidelines are that you either intend deliberately to be disruptive or you really do not give a damn about them. Either way, it needs to stop now - please read WP:CIR.'' Sitush (talk) 06:22, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear Sitush:


 * With reference to your last comment which carried the sentence "This is your last warning.", here is my answer, given in all humility:


 * [1.] I have not flouted any rule of the Wikipedia. Once directed, I have not given any unsourced material on it either. Initially, I didn't know the technology of this encyclopedia, which prevented me from using it properly. When directed how and where to get the sources from and include them in the article, I have indeed followed the directives. The piece of information that I included in the former Chief Minister of West Bengal, Sh. Siddhartha Shankar Ray's article, says that his wife, Smt. Maya Ray, was an eminent barrister herself and an MLA from Malda. That she was an eminent barrister doesn't need reiteration, since a lot of lawyers still practicing in the Calcutta High Court and her immediate family members should be able to corroborate this fact. She did hold an MLAship from West Bengal - whether it was Malda needs to be checked - but her political career is well known in the state. Her admirers - and I am proud to say that I am one of them - should be able to corroborate this fact. That you have deleted it from her husband's page may be fair from your point of view.


 * [2.] Whether I hold an academic position or not is a personal matter and need not be discussed here on the Wikipedia. I have not mentioned that anywhere on Wikipedia. I don't know where you may have gathered this information from. Perhaps from the internet, which you very well can. But perhaps my employment has nothing to do with my edits on the Wikipedia or my conversations with anyone else on the internet. My employment is not relevant to edits on the Wikipedia page of my father, the late Professor Barun De, who does, in death, deserve not be incorrectly informed about. You have suggested that as his son, I am manipulating information on him to suit my own needs. Corroboration of all the informations that I am giving on him with the respective institutions where he worked perhaps needs to be done to check if I am manipulating the information to paint a false image of my father. That, however, has not yet been done. I am not manipulating my father Barun De's image. I believe the informations that were being inserted on him were quite wrong and I was suggesting to a few editors of the Wikipedia ways by which they could be changed.


 * [3.] Whether my grasp over English is good or bad, is also a personal matter and need not be discussed here on the Wikipedia. It is, indeed, interesting that you should mention the nature of my employment and my control over a language. I have heard these comments before elsewhere, outside the internet. Sounds so familiar!


 * If you want me to continue to edit on the Wikipedia that is fine. If you don't want me to do that then that also is absolutely fine. I do know what "... needs to stop now ..." from my side. However, you have every right to give me your views on the matter.


 * Best wishes, Bikramjit De (talk) 15:04, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:TLDR. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine, don't have to read. Cheers, Bikramjit De (talk) 16:39, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. At least one of your recent edits, such as the edit you made to Barun De, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at the welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make some test edits, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. ''Please do not disrupt Wikipedia to make a point. See WP:POINT. Thanks.'' Binksternet (talk) 20:12, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Binksternet: Your latest notice is welcome, but not most of the ones that are consistently coming from Sitush. If he feels I should be barred from editing on the Wikipedia, then the he or the other editors can certainly block my account. The so-called warning that he has issued to me is completely uncalled for because the changes that he reverted were not made by myself. They were made by another editor of the Wikipedia, on the basis of what I had suggested to him. This editor obviously believes that he knows more about my father, Barun De than I do, so it is fine if he manages the account. Clearly, he knew my father very well indeed. As my father's son, I do reserve the right to object to incorrect information being placed on the Wikipedia on my father's life. If this editor wants to believe that this self-proclaimed son of Barun De is manipulating the information, then that's unfortunate. My father's life story, which unfortunately ended suddenly middle of this year - which this editor will say caused me great personal emotional damage - is best preserved by the two research institutes that he founded in Calcutta, i.e. the Centre for Studies in Social Sciences, Calcutta and the Maulana Abul Kalam Azad Institute of Asian Studies, Calcutta. I think all these written matters ought to be presented to them for their considered opinions. It is also very interesting that while the CSSSC's Wikipedia page has been edited by this editor, the Wikipedia page of the Azad Institute, which belongs to a different genre, has been left untouched. All that I can say is this: I will be anxious about the information given on my father. I do not want any misinformation spread about him. It might be said, "how do we know you are not spreading any misinformation?" In that case, the editor or editors could ask the relevant authorities about the family of Barun De, and about the information that's being given. If they can't do that then please, if they could desist from providing imprecise dates and facts. which are not minor details, on my father. Thanks again for your time.Bikramjit De (talk) 21:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The warning was absolutely, unequivocally warranted, and you proved it in your response. You said, "That she was an eminent barrister doesn't need reiteration, since a lot of lawyers still practicing in the Calcutta High Court and her immediate family members should be able to corroborate this fact." Please explain why this is a violation of our policies. If you cannot, you simply cannot edit here. I could explain it to you again, but I and others have already done so. There is no reason for us to waste any more time here. Until you understand, accept, and agree to follow WP:V, I don't see any reason why your account should remain active. So, let's just stop here and explain this one point: why is your statement that I quoted, if used as justification for an edit, a violation of our policies. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know what your policies are. That Smt. Maya Ray was a very well known barrister is known to everybody in Calcutta. If I cannot edit somewhere, then that is the decision of the editors.Bikramjit De (talk) 13:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

After repeatedly being told that "I personally know it and therefore it must be included" is not acceptable on Wikipedia, you continue to add unsourced information to biographical articles and that's a problem. At some point, the overhead of correcting your edits and continually explaining the same policy to you becomes excessive and we're way beyond that point. You will be blocked if you do this again. --regentspark (comment) 13:38, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Once again, this response is reasonable. I didn't as a matter of fact make any of the edits that are being attributed to me presently. If I am blocked, then, I repeat, that is the prerogative of the editors. But I also repeat that I never said "I personally know it and therefore it must be included". I said the information on the page is presently not correct, irrespective of what the obituary notices have to say, so I am pointing them out to the editors who later made the changes. The comment on Smt. Maya Ray was made on this talk page, and not on Sh. Siddhartha Shankar Ray's page. The line that was inserted on her husband's page has been deleted since and has not been put back in. If after that the editors want to block me from editing then I do not have the right to object.Bikramjit De (talk) 14:27, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Bikramjit, you added this to the Siddhartha Shankar Ray article. It was not sourced and subsequently you justified the addition on this talk page using the grounds that people in Calcutta know it to be true. It was the latest in a long line of problems and you are simply not understanding things. This unwillingness or inability to appreciate how we work has gone on for long enough now, sorry. When I've got a spare few moments I am going to compile a list of your problematic contributions and ask the community to consider indefinitely blocking you from further contributions to the English-language Wikipedia. Your efforts, even if well-intentioned, are becoming a significant time-sink and a wide range of experienced contributors are seemingly unable to explain the problems in a manner that you are willing or capable of comprehending. I find it difficult to believe that all of those contributors are at fault but you are not. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sitush: Please, feel free to do whatever you may think is necessary. Yes, this has gone on for a while now. But I will also keep an eye and ear open for any misinformation being given on my father anywhere.Bikramjit De (talk) 15:48, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Not here, you will not. At least, not if you are blocked. Can you not see that you are shooting yourself in the foot? - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, can you explain the last question?Bikramjit De (talk) 16:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Use Google or something for a definition of the idiom. Basically, your continued flouting of Wikipedia policies is leading you into a situation where your own actions might disable your capacity to contribute here. - Sitush (talk) 06:23, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Whether I am going to use google is really my responsibility. But the language you have used in your responses has often been unpleasant. Please, could you desist from using such language?Bikramjit De (talk) 19:19, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Warning
It appears that over the past few months you have been trying to insert your personal opinion and information based only on personal knowledge into articles of your family members. This is frowned upon per WP:COI as you have already been informed but also runs afoul of our verifiability and our reliable sources policies. When this issue has been brought to you, you haven't stopped doing it, but instead you have indulged in pointy behavior on other articles. What's worse is that you don't seem to listen to the advice provided you by many seasoned editors and are appearing to wage some sort of war out here which is not what Wikipedia is for. This is unnecessarily wasting the editing time of many editors. While your intentions may be good please note that Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopaedia operating by policies and consensus and a basic level of competence to understand this is required. If you continue to indulge in disruptive behavior, you may be blocked. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  03:36, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * User:SpacemanSpiff: If you feel I should be blocked from editing on the Wikipedia, then, I repeat, that is your prerogative. I haven't kept a count of the number of times you and some other editors have issued warnings to me. These warnings are meaningless since I have not violated any rule that you are citing. I am not inserting personal information into the article on Brajendranath De. The point I made is a correct one. From the source cited, i.e. an extract from a book written by Geraldine Forbes, it does not emerge that Brajendranath De joined the ICS after going through Oxford. No where has she said that. If you have the time please read that section, before issuing a warning to me. The footnote is footnote number 2. My behaviour is not disruptive. Your so-called warning is.Bikramjit De (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * An editor can be disruptive even though they only edit talk pages, and editors can certainly be blocked for behavior on talk pages. The reason your behavior is a problem is because every time you post some "fact" on an article talk page, someone once again has to explain to you why that information is completely, 100% useless for Wikipedia (because you almost never provide sources), and then you argue back, and everyone's time is wasted. You are very much in WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT territory, because you keep doing the same thing over and over again despite having the rules explained to you clearly. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing
I have just had to fix your latest contribution. It's great that you found a source but the manner in which you used it was misleading. The source neither verifies the places of birth nor does it indicate the name of the subject's mother. To resolve the issue, I had to do this and, alas, that has caused her mother's name to be erased. I know that you have been told about the need for careful use of citations on several past occasions. Can you please at least acknowledge that you understand your error here? You substantially misrepresented what the source said. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 03:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, dear. It seems that your tagging has gone awry also. I'm not sure why you did this - the subject of the article apparently died in 2002. Perhaps you were looking for refimprove? Although that doesn't explain why you dated the tag as September 2009, so I'm a bit confused. Did you copy it from somewhere else, perhaps? - Sitush (talk) 03:25, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to carp on but this was also you. If you are going to remove a source then you need to provide an explanation as to why. Similarly, this needed an explanation. - Sitush (talk) 03:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the latest round of editing. I appreciate it.Bikramjit De (talk) 14:03, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have edited the first sentence of the first paragraph of the section entitled 'career'. Since this information was taken from her husband G.S. Dutt's book on her, which is not available online, I have decided to remove it. The sentence was unsourced. So is the last sentence of the same paragraph, which I have not deleted yet, although I have stated that citation is needed.Bikramjit De (talk) 01:17, 25 October 2013 (UTC)