User talk:Bilby/Archive 9

Evolving Digital Ecological Networks (licensing issues)
I appreciate the willingness to restore the page.

The following page was the first paper published in the new section called "Topic Pages" of the journal PLoS Computational Biology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_permutation_in_proteins

If you read the sentence at the beginning of the References section, you will see that it is the same text we wrote in our page:

''This article incorporates text from an open access publication: Bliven, S.; Prlić, A. (2012). "Circular Permutation in Proteins". In Wodak, Shoshana. PLoS Computational Biology 8 (3): e1002445. . . .''

Please, in case of doubt contact Shoshana Wodak (Editor of the Topic Pages) to solve the licensing issue.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fortuna ebd (talk • contribs) 09:16, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

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Template:Euthanasia
Hello, Bilby:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Euthanasia&curid=27191828&diff=543364058&oldid=543358143

On second thoughts, I agree with you. Thanks for removing. CsDix (talk) 10:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Admin
Hey. I'm sure you know that RfA is utter hell, but I've been looking for some good candidates, and one thing we could use more than anything else is another admin or two who is well-versed on copyright. Would you be willing to consider running? I'd have no problems nominating you. Personally I was convinced you were already an admin, was surprised to see you weren't. Wizardman  00:52, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree wholeheartedly, but would leave the nomination to Wizardman. Lectonar (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the vote of confidence and thinking of me - it is a great compliment. :) I haven't run before because I always wanted to focus primarily on content creation, but it would be worth considering so that I could be more useful with the CCIs. The problem is really one of timing - the new semester just started, so I'm pretty focused on the new courses until they settle down. If it is still ok with you, I might need to put this aside for a few weeks until I know that everything is working smoothly for the students. - Bilby (talk) 12:57, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine; just let me know whenever you've decided you're ready to give it a shot. Wizardman  02:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Since it's been a few weeks now, wanted to check to see if you were still interested. Wizardman  18:36, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably still interested, but I need to wait for a bit - last week I managed to dislocate my shoulder, so I'm waiting to see if I need an operation to repair the ligaments. I've been telling the students that it was a pro skateboarding accident, although they seem to doubt my word on that. The reality is that running for a bus is more dangerous than I would have expected. :) Anyway, once this is settled I'll be in a much better position. - Bilby (talk) 23:21, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I know I keep bugging you on this, but third time's a charm if your free time has finally returned. Wizardman 02:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've thought about it a bit, and for various reasons this has ended up being interesting timing. (Not related to work, so much as things happening on-wiki). However, it is worth a shot, so yes, I'll give it a go. I don't expect it to be smooth or be guaranteed - I recall someone arguing once that after your first year or so of editing, the odds of passing drop quickly, and I know I've made a lot of mistakes over the years. Still, I've reached a point where I think I could do some good, so I'll see what happens, and hopefully at worst there will be some useful criticism to build on. - Bilby (talk) 14:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I was just wondering when is this going active so I can support? AutomaticStrikeout ?  23:58, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Today, I expect. I wanted to wait a couple of days to make sure when I re-read it I hadn't said anything stupid, but I got a bit sidetracked with my new coding project to analyse response times at RFPP (which has been fun to write). And thanks! - Bilby (talk) 02:44, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, go ahead and post it when you're ready. Wizardman  17:30, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

COI template
I have initiated a discussion at Village Pump Proposals regarding applying Template:COI editnotice more broadly, in order to provide advice from WP:COI directly onto the article Talk page. Your comment, support or opposition is invited. Cheers. CorporateM (Talk) 19:47, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

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, we moved your Teahouse host profile
Hello Bilby! Thank you for being a host at the Teahouse. However, we haven't heard from you lately, so our bot has moved your Host profile from the host landing page to the host breakroom. No worries; you can always just and our bot will move your profile back. Editing any Teahouse-related page will do the same thing for you. If you would prefer not to receive reminders like this, you can unsubscribe here. Thanks for your help at the Teahouse! HostBot (talk) 23:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Our GLAM project
Hi Bilby, you may be interested in the conversation I'm having with VedranaB on her talk page. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 02:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Mannatech link vio?
Hi Bilby, I think I'm missing your point, how was this web reference a link violation? BTW, I found this, do you think this one is better? Apparently the actual Fort Worth Star-Telegram article is no longer on the newspaper website, but other websites have apparently archived it for posterity. Cheers. —Prhartcom  (talk)  23:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi! The problem is that they haven't archived it, so much as copied it. This is an ongoing problem with some sites, such as rickross.com, who collect articles that are still under copyright without seeking permission from the copyright owners. While on the one had this does keep the articles accessible, it is nevertheless a copyright violation, and legally we become obligated to remove links to known copyright violations under US contributory copyright violation requirements. On the plus side, we can still provide the full bibliographic data, so other people can always track down the copies if that is what they are looking for. :) - Bilby (talk) 10:44, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

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Response to your message
Hi, Bilby. I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't observing the holiday. Carl Nivorous (talk) 03:08, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Bilby, I was editing Wikipedia to add an AFD for April Fools day since "there is no such thing as 'No Original Research'", and I completely messed it up....sorry — Preceding unsigned comment added by Draconiator (talk • contribs) 04:53, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Meetup/Adelaide/Meetup 8?
Any progress on your plans for Meetup/Adelaide/Meetup 8? Pdfpdf (talk) 13:51, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. It's my opinion that you need to (or "should") do an archive of your talk page ... Pdfpdf (talk) 13:51, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll handle the archive this weekend. Better yet, probably time for a bot. :)
 * And yes, I did have the ok for everything, but didn't get it running before uni started. The frst few weeks have been pretty awful this year. That said, on Wednesday I'll confirm a new date and get it fixed. - Bilby (talk) 11:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * on Wednesday I'll confirm ...  - Ummmmm. (Where?) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:01, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I placed a request for 27 North Terrace, 7:30pm on a Wednesday, and gave some dates. They'll email me back about which one is best from the uni's end, but said there was no problem. - Bilby (talk) 12:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The second Wednesday of each month is out for me due to a clash with meetings of another group, and especially May 8. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 00:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Jolly good! I look forward to getting some information. Or failing that, some data. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:50, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * They got back to me yesterday. There's a group using the venue until 8:30 on Wednesdays, but Tuesdays are universally free. Would a Tuesday be ok? - Bilby (talk) 13:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * OK for whom? And how would one judge/determine this? i.e. Who is your target audience? Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Second Tuesday is also out for me due to clash with another group's meetings. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 14:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking third Tuesday then. And in regard to target audience, the aim was to have a potential regular venue and try for non-Wikipedians or new ones, as well as existing editors. - Bilby (talk) 13:53, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear God. (I'm unfamiliar as to how to address the highly exalted.) What's the status of an Adelaide Wikipedia meetup? (It's too damn cold to stay at home by oneself these days.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:08, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah. Sorry:
 * P.S. Congratulations! (Seriously. Well done.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

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Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion
Hello, Bilby. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Evan Mandery.The discussion is about the topic Evan Mandery. Thank you. Nick Levinson (talk) 16:21, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

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Help reviewing a new article
Hi Bilby, hope you don't mind me reaching out here, I saw your name on the list of participants at WikiProject Cooperation and wondered if you could help. I've recently researched and written a new article draft for Purple Strategies, an American communications firm that currently doesn't have a Wikipedia article. Because I've written this article on behalf of, and with input from, Purple Strategies I'm hoping to find editors who can review it to make sure that it is neutral and non-promotional. I've submitted the draft to AfC but since there's such a backlog there and their reviewers may not have experience with editors who have a COI, I was wondering if you'd be willing to take a look and move the article live for me if it is ready?

If you'd be able to review the article, the AfC entry is here: Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Purple_Strategies. If you need to make adjustments to the article, that's fine and please don't hesitate to ask any questions. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 20:27, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll try and have a look at it tonight. :) - Bilby (talk) 03:29, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi again! Were you able to take a look at the Purple Strategies proposed article? Let me know if you have any feedback, or, if you don't have time, let me know and I'll see if I can find someone else to take a look. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 20:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see someone else as able to pass it - I had a look, and started going through the refs, but an emergency at work over the last few days has been a problem. I think the lead is perhaps a bit too promotional, but overall it is very good. - Bilby (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bilby, really appreciate you taking a look and I hope that your work emergency has been resolved. If you feel there are any tweaks needed to the intro, please feel free to make them. Meanwhile, I have recently submitted a new article at AfC that I was wondering if you would be interested in helping with if you have time. This article is for Mark Squier, an executive at Purple Strategies. As with the Purple Strategies article, I have written Mark Squier's article on behalf of the company. If you would like to check out the draft it is in my user space here: User:16912_Rhiannon/Mark_Squier Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI)  16:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That looks good. I'll go through the sources after my lecture, as I'd like o be more helpful this time. :) - Bilby (talk) 01:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Bilby, thanks so much for your thorough review of the article and taking it live! Very much appreciate your help. I'm working on drafts for the other partners at Purple Strategies, so would love your help to review those if you have time once they're ready. I'll leave you a note once I have the next one in good shape for review, but I'll totally understand if you're working on other things. Thanks again! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 13:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The Lightning Process
I am wondering you would consider taking another look at The Lightning Process which was previously nominated for deletion, in particular the long list of conditions/diseases it claims it can treat. I don't feel there is a strong enough warning that the Process is unproven. I would normally consider re-nominating for deletion but would like an independent view. Thanks FlatOut 03:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Animal Rights Lede
Hi. I kind of stumbled upon the 'Rights by claimants' portal today. I've never noticed it before. I decided to edit the opening of the article on fetal rights and to refer to the articles on animal rights and plant rights as guides. I left an explanation on the fetal rights talk page. Anyway, the formulation "Animal rights is the idea that..." struck me as strangely awkward until I saw your comment,

"The main problem is the statement "Animals are entitled to rights" as much of the debate has nothing to do with rights. Singer, for example, is not a rights advocate, and would deny that they exist."

Is the choice of words deliberate as a way to reflect that a rigorous consequentialist approach to ethics would not advocate rights at all (or at least not 'rights' as they're traditionally understood)? If so, might it be better to say, "Animal rights theory is the idea that..."?

Ock Raz  talk  20:22, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a good thought. The main problem has been that the field is called animal rights, but generally the ethical frameworks are not rights-based. Reagan uses rights in a sense, but Singer would be opposed to the notion of rights. I guess the current wording is more to reflect the field as opposed to the arguments. I'll have to revisit the article again in light of your wording. :) - Bilby (talk) 13:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with your point regarding the phrase "rights to which animal may be entitled" and Singer. I also see your point that the value of the current wording in that 'animal rights' can be used to refer to the academic field of study (like 'women's studies') rather than the theories (like 'feminism'). I hope you agree with me though, that many people would say that 'animal rights', just like 'human rights' or 'parental rights refers to a particular set of rights which are believed to belong to a particular group of individuals or organisms (or what have you).


 * Perhaps the best solution is to use a conjunction: "Animal rights refers both to the rights to which animal may be entitled and to the field of ethics concerned with the moral status of animals." That formulation seems to me to address the technical problems, although I guess it is a little awkward from a writing style POV. What do you think? Ock Raz   talk  20:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you've got a good approach - it is awkward, but in the end we may need to refer to both, although the article as a whole is pretty much firmly about the field of study rather than the notion of animals possessing rights. Do you think that it might be worth spinning of animal rights (in terms of rights theory) as a separate article? There's a lot that could be said about the topic. - Bilby (talk) 14:44, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

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Waterhouse
Hi Bilby, if you have the time and inclination could you please take a look at Tom Waterhouse and check out my last edit in the history, then my entries on More Joyous in Talk:Tom_Waterhouse ? I want to avoid an edit war but I believe the edit meets WP:BLP. Thanks, FlatOut 09:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look, but that is one of the trickier problems. Generally I think it is a problem to have undue focus on allegations which proved to be nothing, as that causes more damage for the subject. However, if the allegations have a significant effect, then they can't reasonably be left out, as they become an important part of their life. - Bilby (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am thinking of tackling it in a different way, under the existing section TomWaterhouse.com, noting that stewards have advised him to keep his business clearly separate from that of Gai Waterhouse in light of concerns raised by Singleton. Cheers FlatOut 01:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That makes a lot of sense. :) When I finish teaching today I'll see if I can help at all. - Bilby (talk) 01:31, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement
Were you aware of the existence of this project? BOZ (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I heard of it. I really should get involved - improving articles is what I'm here for. :) I shall make it a goal to spend time on at least one article there per week. - Bilby (talk) 01:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what I figured. BOZ (talk) 03:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

This Month in Education: May 2013
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Help with Alex Castellanos' article
Hi Bilby, if you're interested in reviewing another article for a Purple Strategies executive, I've written a draft that I'd like to suggest as a replacement for the current version of the Alex Castellanos article. I've explained some of the issues with the existing article on the talk page here and you can see the draft in my user space here: User:16912_Rhiannon/Alex_Castellanos Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 21:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi again, Bilby and congratulations on your Adminship! Although I'm sure you're super busy with all your new responsibilities, I wanted to let you know that I haven't yet had any feedback on the draft for Alex Castellanos, so if you are interested in reviewing that, I'd really appreciate it. I've also posted a new draft for an article about Steve McMahon, another Purple Strategies consultant, if you are interested in reviewing another new article. No pressure on either, let me know if you're able to help. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 21:19, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

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RFA statement
Do you think you could flesh out your reasons for needing the admin tools? The uninitiated likely have no clue what you guys do exactly, over at CCI. Just a thought. Good luck! Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 01:48, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! A good point - I focus so much on CCI that I tend to think that everyone knows of it, but in reality it is probably only a small number of edotrs who ever get involved. - Bilby (talk) 02:37, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Freelance paid editing study
Looking over your contributions for the RfA, and I noticed this: User:Bilby/Freelance paid editing study. That looks interesting. Do you have plans to finish it?  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  09:26, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the analysis was put to one side, as this semester's teaching load has been heavy. I've finished cleaning the data, though, and done some initial analysis, so I should probably work on this while I'm collecting other data. :) - Bilby (talk) 09:30, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd be interested in seeing that when you've completed it. Would you please ping my talkpage to let me know when it's done? Regards  SilkTork  <sup style="color:#347C2C;">✔Tea time  22:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Certainly. :) I'm a couple of weeks from the end of semester, so hopefully I'll be able to ping you soon. - Bilby (talk)

Special invitation
Hello Bilby. I noticed several edits that you made at WikiProject Qworty clean-up; thank you for that. Interestingly no administrators have signed up for this task, which is fine; they are busy and we have a great group on non-administrators collaborating to get it done; correctly. It would be great if you would add your name as a non-admin participant; then as I suspect you'll soon become an administrator which is always good to have on board for this kind of endeavor. An admin that became an admin from within the project.--My76Strat (talk) 05:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look. I didn't sign up initially as I wanted to see if I could help first, but I think I can help. It is a bit like a CCI, only with the advantage that a lot of time you're directly improving articles, rather than removing or rewriting problematic content, so it's a nice experience. :) - Bilby (talk) 14:35, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

CCI update
-- Wizardman 15:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Premature congratulations
I don't want to jinx you or anything, but at this point it would take a massive influx of opposes to knock you out. ;) Don't worry about those; almost no one makes it in without someone needing to voice a negative opinion.  Glad to have you aboard! BOZ (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! We'll see how it goes - I'm not too worried, as I think I can do good things with the tools, but at the same time there is still a lot of work to do without. :) So I'll be kept busy either way. I'm glad Col. Warden spoke - I have no problems with what he was saying, although I recall it a bit differently, and it is always good to have a reminder about not acting while involved. - Bilby (talk) 14:51, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * South Australia/UniSA represent :) Congrats! Daniel (talk) 08:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. :) It seems close enough now that I can view it as over. And it is great to see you around again. :) - Bilby (talk) 11:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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Congratulations
I've closed your RfA as successful (sorry for the delay!). Good luck with your new tools. <font face="Arial"> Maxim (talk)  13:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 13:41, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations and wish all the best with the new tools. Tolly  4  bolly  13:58, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations and Best Wishes.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:41, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Kudos from me too! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations!! MER-C 05:27, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Warm congratulations (or is that "commiserations"), definitely well overdue! Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:44, 2 June 2013 (UTC).
 * See, that wasn't so hard :) Congrats! Wizardman  15:43, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Congratulations from me too. I expected you to get through, as you're clearly a good bloke so no hard feelings for my oppose, I trust.  But I'm really here to show you this new article.  I was looking up Akubra hats for this, which are new to me, but as an Aussie, you'll know all about them, I suppose.  Hats might make a pleasant change from boots... :)  Warden (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Workout_From_Within_with_Jeff_Halevy
Hi, First of all, congrats on the the successful RfA. Recently you tagged the titled article for notability issues. Please take a look at its talk page for my comment, and lets discuss on that. Thanks Patrol49 (talk) 10:45, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

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Flickr/ RFC
Could you take a look at this talk page & chime in? Thanks. Jakerome (talk) 00:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

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Photo of the South Australia Aquatic and Leisure Centre
G'day Bilby, last month I put out a request for a photograph of the South Australia Aquatic and Leisure Centre. You kindly said that you would be able to do this. Any update? Let me know. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 05:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I went down there and took some shots, two of which are passable, but I was hoping I could get down there with a tripod this week and see what I can do then. Otherwise I'll upload one of the ones I have. - Bilby (talk) 05:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Thanks Bilby! -- Ianblair23 (talk) 06:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

This Month in Education: June 2013
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Copyright question
Hi Adam. I remember from your RFA that you have alot of copyright experience, so I hope you don't mind my coming to you with a question. I'm good with image copyright, but I don't have much experience with article copyright. I just got this question on my talk. The deleted article was sourced to http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1002928, which makes no statement of CC-BY-SA 3.0. The statement of apparent intention to free license the material is at http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1002446. For images, I usually look for a direct statement of an exact free license at the source. Any advice you could give on this would be appreciated. <font face="AR Cena" color="black">INeverCry 17:31, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

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I wrote an article then realized two things. First, I'll be 90 in 3 months and the Wizard is too much for me. Second, I have a vested interest in it because I am the inventor Listou cited in the article's referenced patent. After it is published I have a list of cognitive scientists, and others, who I will invite to edit it. Are you willing to submit it, please? It is at execware.com/cdm.pdf.Rlistou (talk) 17:28, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Submit an article?
I wrote an article then realized two things. First, I'll be 90 in 3 months and the Wizard is too much for me. Second, I have a vested interest in it because I am the inventor Listou cited in the article's referenced patent. After it is published I have a list of cognitive scientists, and others, who I will invite to edit it. It is at www.execware.com/cdm.pdf. Are you willing to submit it, please? rlistou@execware.comRlistou (talk) 17:32, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Submit an article?
I wrote an article, execware.com/cdm.pdf,then realized two things. First, I'll be 90 in 3 months and the Wizard is too much for me. Second, I have a vested interest in it because I am the inventor Listou cited in the article's referenced patent. After it is published I have a list of cognitive scientists, and others, who I will invite to edit it. Are you willing to submit it, please? rlistou@execware.comRlistou (talk) 17:35, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Buddhist Terrorism
Hi, as i mention in my edit summary, i am working on its c/r contents, and once we restore it then only I shall read and re-write the contents. So now again i shall have to re-store it once again, as i am still not done with my edits. And once i am fenished then you may decide if that will still be c/r contents. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 15:03, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 June 2013
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The Signpost: 03 July 2013
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Mistaken paste
Thanks for removing it. Proxima Centauri (talk) 18:54, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
EagerToddler39 (talk) 03:15, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

VE newsletter
Hey Bilby

We just deployed another VisualEditor release; bugs fixed include:
 * Firefox 13/14 has been temporarily blacklisted, to avoid the insertion of broken links ./that look like this (50720)
 * Changing a reference in a template should no longer produce the bright red "you don't have a references block!" error (50423)
 * Notices are now shown if you're editing a protected or semi-protected page (50415)
 * The template inspector will no longer invite you to insert parameters that are already being used (50715)
 * Same as above, but with aliases (50717)
 * Parameter names in the template dialogue now word-wrap (50800)
 * The link inspector will not show in the top left if you hit the return key while opening it (49941)
 * Hitting return twice in the link editor will no longer introduce a new line that overwrites the link (51075)
 * Oddly-named categories no longer cause corruption (50702)
 * The toolbar no longer occasionally covers the cursor (48787)
 * Changing the formatting of text no longer occasionally scrolls you upwards (50792)

Not specific bugs, but other things; cacheing is now improved, so people should stop seeing temporary breaking when the VisualEditor updates, and RTL support has received some patches. I hope this newsletter is helpful to people; I'll send out another one with the next deployment :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 July 2013
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VE newsletter
Hey Bilby! Another set of patches :). Today we have:


 * Required template parameters are now automatically added to new templates (50747)
 * Templates with piped links now display correctly when you alter them (50801)
 * If your edit token expires, you're now informed of it (50424).
 * You still won't be able to save - that's due to be fixed on Monday :).

More on Monday, I suspect. Hope you have a good weekend :). I should also have some news about the IP launch pretty soon. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

(if you're seeing this and aren't the newsletter recipient - please do sign up here)



IRC office hours for wiki-mentors and Snuggle users
Hi. We're organizing an office hours session with the Teahouse to bring in mentors from across the wiki to and discuss it's potential to support mentorship broadly. The Snuggle team would appreciate it if you would come and participate in the discussion. We'll be having it in on '''Wed. July 17th @ 1600 UTC'''. See the agenda for more info. -- EpochFail (talk &bull; work), Technical 13 (talk), TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:17, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

This Month in Education: July 2013
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VE newsletter
Hey Bilby; hope you had a decent weekend :). We've got a pile of patches, some of which went out on Monday, some yesterday:


 * If you insert wikitext such as links or section headers, you get a notice in the top right corner (over the save button). It doesn't go away until click, though once dismissed you don't get another one that edit. (49820)
 * If your edit token expires, VE fetches a new one for you so you can save. (50424)
 * If the page is empty of content but does have something non-content (like a category or an HTML comment), VE no longer crashes on load - (50289)
 * sub tags are no longer removed ((49873)
 * If you type at the end of links, they now extend
 * Templates now only take a single click to insert
 * Clear annotations clears links (50461)
 * The link inspector stays open when you click to another item (50895)
 * Typing after multi-byte characters no longer creats pawn icons (51140)
 * Resizing thumbnails that have a default size set now works (50645)
 * References made by tag:ref now display properly (50978)
 * The VE is integrated with the spam blacklist (50826)
 * Feedbacl link goes to the right language (47730)

There are a lot more improvements coming, but that's it for Monday and Tuesday. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 08:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 July 2013
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July 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=565264217 your edit] to List of diplomatic missions of Italy may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 01:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ** Dakar (Embassy)ta

Black Gate
Hi, Bilby! :)

A while back you said you had some back issues of this sci-fi mag, and that they have reviews of D&D and other gaming books. What do you know, I did a search online, and they have an index at their home page. :)

If you have any of these issues, would you want to help by adding something from the review?
 * Issues #1-7 do not have an listing of what books are reviewed.
 * The City of Towers: The Dreaming Dark, Book I, Keith Baker ( I think this is a novel); Races of Destiny – BG #8
 * Explorer's Handbook, Frostburn, Sandstorm – BG #9
 * Fantastic Locations: Dragondown Grotto – BG #11

BG #15 – if you have a copy of this, let me know and I fill find a place to put it for these 4th edition books:
 * Dark Sun Campaign Setting, Richard Baker, Robert J. Schwalb, and Rodney Thompson (Wizards of the Coast)
 * Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Sun Creature Catalog, Richard Baker, Bruce R. Cordell (Wizards of the Coast)

Let me know! BOZ (talk) 23:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure where I kept my copies. But I'll dig around during the week and try to track them down - I started trying to organise all my books some time back. but ended up doing an awful job of it. :) - Bilby (talk) 10:44, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hah - I know the feeling. Great, let me know! :)  BOZ (talk) 14:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey Bilby, did you have any luck finding those, or do you figure that's something you might not be able to get to in the near future? BOZ (talk) 17:14, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * They're in the back room - I've started working through it, and I might be able to make more progress tomorrow. :) Unfortunately, everything is boxed. I'll keep looking for a bit and see how I go. - Bilby (talk) 17:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

VE newsletter
Hey Bilby. The newest updates: Along with some miscellaneous language support fixes. That's all for today; as always, let us know if you spot more bugs. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:04, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Links now don't extend over space/punctuation/workbreaks when you type (51463)
 * Users with the "minoredit" preference set get working functionality (51515)
 * You can tab to buttons in dialogs, including the save dialog (50047)
 * We now show the (or ) message as an edit notice (51459)
 * You can scroll dialog panels like in transclusions' templates' parameter listings (51739)
 * Templates that only create meta-data and no display content at all (like Template:Use dmy dates) now can't be deleted accidentally or deliberately, but still don't show up (51322)
 * FlaggedRevisions integration (49699)
 * Edit summary will get the section title pre-added if you launched from a section edit link (50872)

The Signpost: 24 July 2013
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Articles deletion
Dear Bilby,

I apologize for the inconvenience, but have no other way than appealing for   administrators’ help recover a deleted article.

I published a film article entitled Drits (Derivas), a film by Portuguese director Ricardo Costa. It is the second film from an autobiographic trilogy, Faraways. The article was kept untouched by several months. To my surprise, it was recently eliminated and redirected to the director’s page with no discussion. I undid the redirection, but saw the article was proposed to deletion. Reason: independent, verifiable, secondary resources. I argued that the article couldn’t have but primary sources (the producer’s ones) as it is an upcoming film, like many others listed at upcoming films. A film that has not yet been premiered or distributed may not be commented. Besides, none of the films so listed has ever been deleted or even contested.

At last, in discussion, user User:reddogsix proposed that the article should be renamed to Drifts (film) or similar, and at the same time put at the disambiguation page of Dritf this reference «Drifs, unreleased film by Ricardo Costa (filmmaker). I created a new page for the same article entitled Drifts (Portuguese film). As the semantic root “drift” seemed to be the problem, I replaced the article name to Derivas (Drifts) and published it once more with some improvements. As a result, the article was fast deleted and I blocked for three days.

In the meantime, a new article about the trilogy was published: Faraways, which was proposed to fast deletion as well by the same user, User:reddogsix.

Although unreleased, although having no reliable secondary sources, Drifts is unquestionably an outstanding film for its uniqueness and characteristics: autobiography, comedy, docufiction, metafiction in one. I guess that “outstanding” may be a synonym for “notable” in such cases and that articles like this shouldn’t be deleted without previous cared analyses: important information may be lost.

This sequence of interventions is clearly a personal attack by User:reddogsix, supported by two or three user friend. It has no other explanation. It contributes in nothing to improve articles quality. Mists article, which I created on 10 September 2010, is the latest example. The article structure was unreasonably modified, loosing clarity and useful content.

NOTE: sent to 30 administrators.

Thanks for your attention, User:Tertulius 20:00, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2013
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Pyramid online reviews
Hi there, Bilby. I noticed that at one time, you had access to the Pyramid archives at Steve Jackson's website. If you still have access, would you like to help out with reviews on D&D articles? I have checked for where the reviews were already cited, and added more where they were needed. The main thing I would need help with would be to add the name of the reviewer in most cases, and that we fix the citation template. Additionally, if you have the time and inclination, you could go through the review and see if there are any additional bits worth mentioning in our article, it would help out a ton if you would do that. Here is a sampling of articles that I would suggest you take a look at for starters:


 * Birthright Campaign Setting
 * Dragonlance: Fifth Age
 * Dungeons & Dragons Adventure Game (2 reviews)
 * Player's Handbook (6 separate reviews)
 * The Forge of Fury
 * The Speaker in Dreams
 * Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
 * Oriental Adventures
 * Epic Level Handbook (2 reviews)
 * Deities & Demigods
 * Book of Vile Darkness (2 reviews)
 * Draconomicon
 * Libris Mortis
 * Explorer's Handbook
 * Dungeon Tiles (2 reviews)

If those all look good to you already, or if you just want to see what else there is, you can check out my full list of Pyramid's online reviews. Thanks! BOZ (talk) 15:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * They might be a bit harder, but I'll look. Before Pyramid was shut down (and prior to being revived again) I was given the chance to download the archives, so I might have that on one of the old HDs. On the plus side, I had some luck with Black Gate on the weekend. I'll go through that shortly now that I have the right box. :) - Bilby (talk) 15:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Great, I can't wait! :) BOZ (talk) 04:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Once I survive giving today's lecture I should be set to work on this. Why they gave a Perl programmer a web2py course to teach is a bit of a mystery to me, but I'm getting there. :) - Bilby (talk) 04:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sweeet. :) Did you survive the experience?  ;)
 * That one. Now I have four more lectures to give. I know the field, it's just that as a Perl programmer I dislike Python, and the students know it. :) Which makes for an entertaining time. - Bilby (talk) 04:18, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, best of luck to you! ;) BOZ (talk) 02:13, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, Bilby, any luck with finding Pyramid or Black Gate yet? :) BOZ (talk) 17:00, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes to both. :) I'll start trying to add them in later this week. - Bilby (talk) 16:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Bilby, anything I can do to help? BOZ (talk) 17:52, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your recent contributions to Birthright Campaign Setting and The Forge of Fury - I'm glad you are still able to get access to your archive. :) Another user offered to share the archive with me, but I haven't heard back from him yet. Do you have anything else to share? :) BOZ (talk) 19:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I did receive a copy of the full archive, so I can handle getting the rest of that, sooner or later. :)   Bilby, would you let me know when we are able to get a look at the reviews from Black Gate that I mention above?  That would help out a lot more.  :)  BOZ (talk) 14:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll get onto the Black Gate reviews. btw, I also have Series 3 of Pyramid, so I've been sorting through them for anything relevant as I go, and isolated issues of Series 1. - Bilby (talk) 14:35, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter for 06 August 2013
It's been almost two weeks since the last newsletter, and a lot of improvements have been made during that time. The main things that people have noticed are significant improvements to speed for typing into long pages, scrolling and deleting  on large pages. There have also been improvements to references, with the latest being support for list-defined references, which are s defined inside a ) (bug 53345).  Selecting both an image and some text, and then trying to add a link, previously deleted the selected image and the text.  This was fixed in bug 50127. There was another problem related to using arrow keys to move the cursor next to an inline image that was fixed (bug 53507).

Looking ahead: The next planned upgrade is scheduled for next Thursday, and you should expect to find a redesigned toolbar with drop-down menus that include room for references, templates, underline, strikethrough, superscript, subscript, and code formatting. There will also be keyboard shortcuts for setting the format (paragraph vs section headings).

If you are active at other Wikipedias, the next group of Wikipedias to have VisualEditor offered to all users is being determined at this time. Generally speaking, languages that depend on the input method editor are not going to receive VisualEditor this month. The current target date is Tuesday, September 24 for logged-in users only. You can help with translating the documentation. In several cases, most of the translation is already done, and it only needs to be copied over to the relevant Wikipedia. If you are interested in finding out whether a particular Wikipedia is currently on the list, you can leave a message for me at my talk page.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Belldandy (Manga) cropped - v3 p5.png)
Thanks for uploading File:Belldandy (Manga) cropped - v3 p5.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 03:19, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 September 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for September 9
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Linode, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Y Combinator (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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This Month in Education: September 2013
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The youth of today?
11 edits before someone did the obvious thing! Well, at least you noticed and did it!! Pdfpdf (talk) 06:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter for September 19, 2013
VisualEditor has been updated twice in the last two weeks. As usual, what is now running on the English Wikipedia had a test run at Mediawiki during the previous week.

As announced, the toolbar was redesigned to be simpler, shorter, and to have the ability to have drop-down groups with descriptions. What you see now is the initial configuration and is expected to change in response to feedback from the English Wikipedia and other Wikipedias. The controls to add  (underline),   (subscript), and   (superscript),   (strikethrough) and   (computer code/monospace font) annotations to text are available to all users in the drop-down menu. At the moment, all but the most basic tools have been moved into a single drop-down menu, including the tools for inserting media, references, reference lists, and templates. The current location of all of the items in the toolbar is temporary, and your opinions about the best order are needed! Please offer suggestions at VisualEditor/Feedback/Toolbar.

In an eagerly anticipated upgrade to the reference dialog, newly added references or reference groups no longer need the page to be saved before they can be re-used (bugs 51689 and 52000). The 'Use existing reference' button is now disabled on pages which don't yet have any references (bug 51848). The template parameter filter in the transclusion dialog now searches both parameter name and label (bug 51670).

In response to several requests, there are some new keyboard shortcuts. You can now set the block/paragraph formatting from the keyboard: Ctrl sets a block as a regular paragraph; Ctrl up to Ctrl sets it as a Heading 1 ("Page title") to Heading 6 ("Sub-heading 4"); Ctrl sets it as pre-formatted (bug 33512). Ctrl, which creates level 2 section headings, may be the most useful.

Some improvements were made to capitalization for links, so typing in "iPhone" will offer a link to "iPhone" as well as "IPhone" (bug 50452).

Copying and pasting within the same document should work better as of today's update, as should copying from VisualEditor into a third-party application (bug 53364, bug 52271, bug 52460). Work on copying and pasting between VisualEditor instances (for example, between two articles) and retaining formatting when copying from an external source into VisualEditor is progressing.

Major improvements to editing with input method editors (IMEs; mostly used for Indic and East Asian languages) are being deployed today. This is a complex change, so it may produce unexpected errors. On a related point, the names of languages listed in the "languages" (langlinks) panel in the Page settings dialog now display as RTL when appropriate (bug 53503).

Looking ahead: The help/'beta' menu will soon expose the build number next to the "Leave feedback" link, so users can give more specific reports about issues they encounter (bug 53050). This change will make it easier for developers to identify any cacheing issues, once it starts reporting the build number (currently, it says "Version false"). Also, inserting a link, reference or media file will put the cursor after the new content again (bug 53560). Next week’s update will likely improve how dropdowns and other selection menus behave when they do not fit on the screen, with things scrolling so the selected item is always in view.

If you are active at other Wikipedias, the next group of Wikipedias to have VisualEditor offered to all users is being finalized. About two dozen Wikipedias are on the list for Tuesday, September 24 for logged-in users only, and on Monday, September 30 for unregistered editors. You can help with translating the documentation. In several cases, most of the translation is already done, and it only needs to be copied over to the relevant Wikipedia. If you are interested in finding out whether a particular Wikipedia is currently on the list, you can leave a message for me at my talk page.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:48, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 September 2013
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Your edits/summaries
and. What was the point of these edits and why did you use misleading edit summaries? The links are appropriate and they should stay on the article talk pages. If you have any further questions or concerns please contact me directly to discuss my edits.  Them From  Space  20:07, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 September 2013
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666!
As one of a highly select international group, you are hereby invited to join me in celebrating my 666! (Let the games begin!) Pdfpdf (talk) 11:17, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=575132009 your edit] to Angus Taylor (politician) may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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 * nation-building-than-big-bucks/story-e6frg6zo-1225928031275 More to Nation Building than Big Bucks

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Courtesy note: OHP talk
Hi Bilby. Just a courtesy note regarding 2 proposed changes that have been left on the OHP discussion page all day if interested in commenting further? If not will go ahead. thanks Mrm7171 (talk) 05:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 October 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for October 13
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Kevin McCloud's Man Made Home, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page The Telegraph (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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O'Farrell‎
Hi, In case you've reported it somewhere, I just nuked that edit you reverted on BLP grounds. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 09:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) I wasn't sure if it should be rev del'ed or not, but it seems like a good call to me. - Bilby (talk) 19:25, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

This Month in Education: October 2013
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> If this message is not on your home wiki's talk page, update your subscription &middot; Distributed via Global message delivery, 19:11, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter on 16 October 2013
VisualEditor is still being updated every Thursday. As usual, what is now running on the English Wikipedia had a test run at Mediawiki during the previous week. If you haven't done so already, you can turn on VisualEditor by going to your preferences and choosing the item, " ".

The reference dialog for all Wikipedias, especially the way it handles citation templates, is being redesigned. Please offer suggestions and opinions at mw:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog. (Use your Wikipedia username/password to login there.) You can also drag and drop references (select the reference, then hover over the selected item until your cursor turns into the drag-and-drop tool). This also works for some templates, images, and other page elements (but not yet for text or floated items). References are now editable when they appear inside a media item's caption (bug 50459).

There were a number of miscellaneous fixes made: Firstly, there was a bug that meant that it was impossible to move the cursor using the keyboard away from a selected node (like a reference or template) once it had been selected (bug 54443). Several improvements have been made to scrollable windows, panels, and menus when they don't fit on the screen or when the selected item moves off-screen. Editing in the "slug" at the start of a page no longer shows up a chess pawn character ("♙") in some circumstances (bug 54791). Another bug meant that links with a final punctuation character in them broke extending them in some circumstances (bug 54332). The "page settings" dialog once again allows you to remove categories (bug 54727). There have been some problems with deployment scripts, including one that resulted in VisualEditor being broken for an hour or two at all Wikipedias (bug 54935). Finally, snowmen characters ("☃") no longer appear near newly added references, templates and other nodes (bug 54712).

Looking ahead: Development work right now is on rich copy-and-paste abilities, quicker addition of citation templates in references, setting media items' options (such as being able to put images on the left), switching into wikitext mode, and simplifying the toolbar. A significant amount of work is being done on other languages during this month. If you speak a language other than English, you can help with translating the documentation.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:49, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Ban Appeal of AKonanykhin
Hi. Since you contributed to the discussion resulting in the ban of Wikiexperts, you may want to consider the CEO's appeal at AN. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:10, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Revert only when necessary
Revert only when necessary Could you please discuss before blindly reverting as you usually do and again, 'without any discussion,' only days after dispute resolution and with obvious editor conflicts on the OHP article. I would appreciate it if you undid your revert please Bilby. So we may have a civil discussion first. My addition is factual and based on a reliable source. I will not engage in edit warring and therefore have not reverted it again. Thank you.Mrm7171 (talk) 13:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it was necessary. - Bilby (talk) 13:26, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * How was pointing out with a reliable source, that the Society for Occupational Health Psychology is a paid or commercial 'sponsor' of a conference. Wikipedia is about facts and reliable sources. Any organization, if they pay money to sponsor someone or something can put their name to it. Why do you not want Wikipedia readers to know the truth that this Society for Occupational Health Psychology pays' for all of its publicity?Mrm7171 (talk) 00:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This is better handled on the talk page. At pointed out there, though, you have not provided a source stating that they are a paid sponsor. You have presented a source stating that they are a co-convenor of the conference, and a sponsor along with the two other co-convenors. This does not necessarily entail that the sponsorship is financial. - 00:45, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The American Psychological Association has confirmed that the sponsorship was 'paid' for financially. That is the Society for Occupational Health Psychology pays money for all their publicity. The reliable source was actually clearly posted on the talk page too? In fact, I just used the single word sponsor in the article, not even sponsor (commercial) as you insisted. I was wondering why it was deleted without any discussion or reasons provided, that's all? Here it is again http://www.apa.org/wsh/ and sponsors are clearly on the right hand side. It is just one word? Why do you and other members and affiliates of the OHP society, desperately not want readers to know the truth that Society for Occupational Health Psychology pays money for their publicity? That's okay, you are probably also connected to the Society for Occupational Health Psychology similar to all of the other editors? That's your business Bilby. That's fine, will continue this discussion on the talk page then. Probably better that you also don't post on my talk page then, like you have been doing in the past. That would be appreciated too. Thanks.Mrm7171 (talk) 02:27, 24 October 2013 (UTC)