User talk:Biosthmors/Archive 2

Review
Have you seen this one http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e7498 Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:46, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I haven't. Biosthmors (talk) 06:50, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Epigenetics of Schizophrenia
Hi Biosthmors,

I apologize for replying so late. I was planning to start a new article for "epigenetics of schizophrenia." Is there any concern or problem with doing this?

Thanks for your help.

Gazirashid (talk) 07:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Oops I meant to reply sooner. It might be a concern, per User:Biosthmors/Intro Neuro, where I talk about reasons for merging. Biosthmors (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Life cycle of malaria
The version as written is correct. It lacks a lot of detail that is to be found on the page Plasmodium but that is a reasonable thing to do. Is there something you had in mind? DrMicro (talk) 12:30, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


 * You are a little behind in your reading if you think there are only five species that infect humans as here are at least 12 :) Here is a list - []. The description of the life cycle applies to all known members of the genus Plasmodium with the exception of a couple of species that are transmitted by non mosquito vectors. These species also replicate in the liver.
 * Liver replication followed by erythrocyte replication is characteristic of Plasmodium and distinguishes it from other genera in the same family. There are of course other features that are used to diagnose Plasmodium DrMicro (talk) 10:04, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Logging in
I'll do that right now. Thank you so much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.215.112.68 (talk) 23:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome. Biosthmors (talk) 18:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Schizophrenia Prevention and Cannabis
Do you really believe that cannabis abstention can't prevent onset of psychosis in people with risk factors? I had worked hard to find secondary sources to get a mention of this under prevention. They exist. However because of the controversy over recreational cannabis use, people reverted my edits and I do not "police" this wiki article. It seems you do "police" it. Why do you want to keep this important information out of this wiki article? Glennconti (talk) 18:18, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "Why do you want to keep this important information out of this wiki article"? That's interesting. You appear to know my thoughts! Tell me more! Sigh... I'm largely ignorant here. Put up your facts from WP:MEDRS with due weight. And Comment on content, not on the contributor. Thanks? Biosthmors (talk) 18:25, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Please see this version on prevention of schizophrenia: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schizophrenia&oldid=469914447#Prevention I will appreciate your comments on whether it is properly sourced. Thank you for your consideration. Glennconti (talk) 23:09, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try to get there in a reasonable amount of time, but I am busy. Feel free to start a thread at WT:MED to attract more attention if necessary. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 06:28, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There is indeed a prevention effect (if my sources are valid). 1 case prevented for approximately each 3000 heavy users dissuaded (if your sources are valid). The research I have seen is heavy pot use is on the rise and 10% of the population could be considered heavy users. You can do the math; 25-30 Million heavy users in the USA alone. So, 30,000,000 / 3,000 = 100,000 cases prevented. Are you saying the effect is too small to mention in the schizophrenia article? Especially considering how life wrecking schizophrenia is to the afflicted. "If a clinical endpoint is devastating enough (e.g. death, heart attack), drugs with a high NNT may still be indicated in particular situations." And we are not talking about drug intervention here were are talking about an article mention. Glennconti (talk) 21:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've heard a NNT of 5 described as "high", but hey, that was Wikipedia. Biosthmors (talk) 02:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In general, I think that Prevention section places WP:UNDUE weight on cannabis. I've worked to improve the DVT section, for example. As you can see, everything there has a clinical basis. The lead summarizes it as "Prevention options for at-risk individuals include early and frequent walking, calf exercises, anticoagulants, aspirin, graduated compression stockings, and intermittent pneumatic compression." These are all things a clinician might actually do or prescribe for a patient. Some organization likely funded a randomized controlled trial to study each option, (other than walking... right)? With the way I see medical article writing here, it implies to me you think doctors should be paid to talk to patients about not smoking pot in order to prevent cannabis and/or refer every patient that self-reports cannabis use to be scheduled for a "smoking cessation" program (which has been show to be how effective, by the way?) You also assume we could somehow stop pot smoking in your example above and erase any residual propensity for past use to contribute to schizophrenia development.


 * But whatever, maybe a sentence is deserved in the prevention section based upon recent WP:MEDRS. I doubt it at this point.


 * The text is also WP:WEASELy, in my opinion: "some" (how many?) "delayed" (how long?) "possibly prevented" (how likely is this?). And irrelevant text is there: "Individuals with a family history of schizophrenia may be more vulnerable to cannabis induced psychosis". That's completely irrelevant for a prevention section, in my opinon. It might be worth having in a causes section depending upon the evidence and the basis for that horribly vague word "may".


 * But this is best discussed at Talk:Schizophrenia, if you have any proposed additions to the encyclopedia article. Someone has started to edit on your issue of interest. Biosthmors (talk) 02:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Delirium article
Hi, thanks for your interest in supporting new medical editors. I've just made my first major edit on the Delirium page and would be grateful for any feedback. All the best Dhj davis (talk) 19:46, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure I'll put that on my to-do list and I hope to get to it today. I'll leave comments at Talk:Delirium. Biosthmors (talk) 19:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Biosthmors (talk) 06:29, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input, I've left some revisions and some questions on Talk:Delirium. If you're watching that page, should we just correspond over there?Dhj davis (talk) 12:46, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 16:20, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Dapoxetine article
Thanks for the note on my talk page. My wiki article, the first draft was due on Monday Nov 19, and I have until Nov the 28 to get a final version. So, thanks so much for your inputs.Thoa Shook(talk) 16:42, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Reply for article Autonomous sensory meridian response
Thanks for your message, I think I could use your help at this point. I was aware the page had been deleted but I assumed if I provided reliable sources it might have a chance of getting re-posted. I recall the original page did not have trustworthy publications and only referred to internet pages such as YouTube, blogs, forums, etc. Is there any way of having this topic revived on Wikipedia, or is it permanently banned? The only other option I can think of is adding content to the cold chill page, but I disagree that autonomous sensory meridian response or ASMR is identical to that topic, although it is similar.

I've searched all I can for published research that mentions the topic of ASMR but haven't found anything, mainly because it is a coined term from a layperson. One of the professionals I interviewed said it's quite possible this hasn't been looked into because there doesn't exist an appropriate name for the sensation, or perhaps it's beyond what it currently known in neuroscience. They suggested writing what is known in relation to the topic, mainly on the somatosensory system and perhaps about psychology relating to emotions and perception.

Is there any way to write the article in such a way to not claim it as a fact but discuss the topic as it exists today? My reason for asking is that if you search it on Google there are about 80,100 results and 21,900 results on YouTube...is this really something that should be ignored if so many people consistently describe the same sensation?

I am not defending the name autonomous sensory meridian response (ASMR) but there is no other scientific or medical term I know of that fits the topic so at least for now it would be useful to use this name until it gains the attention of scientific research and then the title of the page could be modified? Let me know what you think! — Preceding unsigned comment added by DevonJamesKing (talk • contribs) 23:19, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It is entirely possible an article could exist. I don't know the literature. Google results and Youtube results aren't going to help though. What matters more is what you've found that is peer-reviewed, how much it's been cited/accepted/written about. What are your best sources that establish notability? (per WP:GNG) Biosthmors (talk) 23:29, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it acceptable to mention those in a 'History' section on the topic? In the meantime I'll rewrite a better article and show you before creating the page again. Thank youDevonJamesKing (talk) 23:45, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Let's nail this down first: "ASMR is a concept developed through internet discussion mediums such as blogs, forums and news articles" is only going to make people think it is not notable (unless you cite some serious news sources). Is this concept discussed in secondary peer-reviewed literature? Or might the draft be an WP:OR construct to offer your explanation for it? Biosthmors (talk) 23:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I cited secondary peer-reviewed literature but they do not mention the term 'ASMR' or 'autonomous sensory meridian response' but do discuss the difficulty in defining physical sensations triggered by observation of the actions of other people. One article studied the concept of the chills and mentions words such as chills, coldshivers, goosetingles, shivers, tingling, tingling sensation, tingly feeling, spine tingling, goosebumps, etc. and another one was on somatosensation as a response to social perception/observation. Here are links to those http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22564010 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20445542 DevonJamesKing (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but please prove to me that the concept is discussed specifically and in detail and is not original research (WP:OR). Direct quotes, perhaps? Biosthmors (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know if these count but they may be helpful. Both research references are published in peer-reviewed journals, the second of which is a review article. "Our findings call for research into the biological basis of the convergence of goosetingles with approach and of coldshivers with avoidance...We note also that shivering and voluntary behavior are employed to deal with severe temperature threats, consistent with a role of coldshivers in avoidance; other cold-defense responses e.g. piloerection are employed to adjust for modest deviations in temperature, which are often pleasurable, consistent with a role of goosetingles in approach."


 * "We suggest that these vicarious activations of somatosensory cortices may have the unique potential to provide a somatic dimension to our perception of other people's experiences." DevonJamesKing (talk) 00:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It's not apparent to me those establish much in the way of supporting the existence of a new article based on the concept you proposed. Biosthmors (talk) 05:03, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking about editing the page Cold chill instead, although it's not exactly the same as the original topic I chose. There is an article on the topic in a major newspaper...but of course this isn't peer-reviewed http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/maria-spends-20-minutes-folding-towels-why-millions-are-mesmerised-by-asmr-videos-7956866.html?origin=internalSearch I'm pretty confident ASMR doesn't exist in any secondary peer-reviewed literature. Hopefully it will, someday.DevonJamesKing (talk) 09:21, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again for taking the time to go over this article with me yesterday, I really appreciate it! So I've been searching more online and have found possible news stories similar to the one linked above. I'll just link them on here again? Please let me know if any of these work? There were several news events about some event in the UK and "Auto-Sensory Meridian Response" videos was on the list of topics. The other references only briefly mention it. DevonJamesKing (talk) 08:37, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think this adds anything (that wasn't mentioned in the Independent)
 * I don't think this adds anything
 * Yes, use this with care, but be careful to attribute things to the author when necessary, it might not be considered reliable for statements of fact (It says the author is a journalist, might he be an established, well known, respected one?)
 * Yes, use this with care, but be careful to attribute things to the author when necessary, it might not be considered reliable for statements of fact
 * I don't think this adds anything
 * I don't think this adds anything
 * This can be cited for a sentence, that the event happened
 * I recommend using this to archive those 3 useful websites and putting those urls into archive spots within a cite news templates. There's no telling when they'll go dead, it could be tomorrow! Biosthmors (talk) 02:27, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've come across more possibly credible sources that could be added to the page, please let me know if these would hold, if you have time. Thanks!

DevonJamesKing (talk) 15:28, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you put these links in the format I have above? Also, a source isn't necessarily "reliable" or "unreliable". Reliability depends upon what statements you want to support. So it depends is the short answer. Can you give me more details if you want a more nuanced answer? Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 16:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * My fault for the bad citing..Basically I just want to know if any of these could go on the references section to link to more sources and also add more information to the article by discussing the information from the references.


 * This one was written by Dr. Steven Novella, a neurologist at Yale University School of Medicine
 * DevonJamesKing (talk) 19:43, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Link 8 seems good for explaining the internet culture like the YouTube videos and that Andrew MacMuiris has a blog called The Unnamed Feeling. Link 9 looks generally reliable at first glance (does it have editorial oversight?) Link 10 is IAfrica, which I hope is reliable since it is owned by a media group. Good find with 11, the Steven Novella blog. You should mention the Reddit community as described in link 12. Good work. Biosthmors (talk) 20:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I updated the article with those references, edit whatever you think needs changing. Coincidentally, Andrew MacMuiris was the person who sent me a lot of these references after I posted the newly made ASMR Wikipedia article on the ASMR Facebook group...he also provided me with the video, radio and news podcasts that I wrote about and added to the page, hoping the could also be used as references. You should check them out, the one from KC radio is pretty funny. I wasn't sure if it's appropriate to use his name and also Jenn Allen's name so let me know if those should be removed. I asked Andrew to come contribute to the page if he wants to since he's providing a lot of the sources to me.DevonJamesKing (talk) 10:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * DevonJamesKing (talk) 19:43, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Link 8 seems good for explaining the internet culture like the YouTube videos and that Andrew MacMuiris has a blog called The Unnamed Feeling. Link 9 looks generally reliable at first glance (does it have editorial oversight?) Link 10 is IAfrica, which I hope is reliable since it is owned by a media group. Good find with 11, the Steven Novella blog. You should mention the Reddit community as described in link 12. Good work. Biosthmors (talk) 20:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I updated the article with those references, edit whatever you think needs changing. Coincidentally, Andrew MacMuiris was the person who sent me a lot of these references after I posted the newly made ASMR Wikipedia article on the ASMR Facebook group...he also provided me with the video, radio and news podcasts that I wrote about and added to the page, hoping the could also be used as references. You should check them out, the one from KC radio is pretty funny. I wasn't sure if it's appropriate to use his name and also Jenn Allen's name so let me know if those should be removed. I asked Andrew to come contribute to the page if he wants to since he's providing a lot of the sources to me.DevonJamesKing (talk) 10:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Dapoxetine Article
Thanks,Biosthmors. I totally agree with you. Just give me some more time. I am searching for more info about therapeutic uses of dapoxetine, and I will move the depresssion somewhere else or delete it. Again, thanks. Thoa Shook(talk) 22:11, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds great. No problem. Biosthmors (talk) 05:03, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

 * Thanks, and thanks for putting up with me! Biosthmors (talk) 00:10, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

"whole section needs cleanup"...
Re this, yes nearly all the sourcing needs gutting. It's been accumulating non-WP:MEDRS sourced material for a while. I've had the thought of simply removing large sections of it, but without well-sourced content to put in its place, I haven't done it, and instead have only been trying to prevent any new poorly-sourced content from being added. Please let me know if you have access to good sourcing, I could use it elsewhere. 02:27, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Copy and paste onto talk page, with a section "potential sources"? Biosthmors (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you got 'em let's have 'em... although I'm supposed to be finishing my other project first!    05:09, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Thanks for commenting here. I did decide to go ahead and make a separate article on the neurological aspects of race rather than just adding to Race (human classification) because there is a lot of good research out there on the neurological aspects of race. You can find my new article here.

Thanks. Matt Tillman(talk) 14:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, and thanks for your consideration. Please let me know if I can be of assistance. Thanks again. Biosthmors (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Demylenating Disease
Hey, my name is Challis King and I am working on Demyelinating disease for my Intro to Neuro project. If you have a chance, would you mind glancing over it and giving me some feedback on it? Anything would be much appreciated.

Chaking32 (talk) 20:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Challis. I hope to get comments up for you at Talk:Demyelinating disease tonight. Biosthmors (talk) 20:51, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Intro Neuro
Hi there! I'm working on dysesthesia for my Intro Neuro project, and would greatly appreciate it if you could possibly take a peek before Wednesday and offer any suggestions for improvement. Thanks! WilliamSparks (talk) 01:14, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comments at Talk:Dysesthesia. Biosthmors (talk) 23:41, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay
It is yours for a bit. I keep getting edit conflicts :-) Off to do some real life work. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 23:03, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I ended up being largely done though. Maybe the students will take care of the other formatting issues I see and noted on the talk page. Biosthmors (talk) 03:03, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

thanks for the help
Hello,

As per your suggestion, I consolidated some sections so that there wasn't so much segmentation. I agree that it is easier to read and navigate this way. Thanks again,

128.61.51.28 (talk) 07:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)bbeaulieu16
 * Thanks for making those improvements. Biosthmors (talk) 23:11, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Clarification
Hi Biosthmors, when you get a chance, can you clarify those few points I asked about on the IC peer review? Thank you! Also, do you think following those last revisions, if necessary, the article is worth trying for GAN again or not yet? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 07:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note! Hopefully soon. This neuroscience class has been keeping me busy. Consider asking someone else on their talk page in the meanwhile? Best! Biosthmors (talk) 23:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I can wait, I'd prefer to have you stay on the project with me and continue to work on it when you have time. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 05:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Echopraxia
Hey, Bio ... it has taken me ridiculous amounts of time to track it down, but another of that class students is making mincemeat of echopraxia, a good deal of which will have to be simply removed. First line: echopraxia is not a tic disorder; it is sometimes a tic. Similar throughout. Again, no indication on talk or on his talk that he is a student editor-- just a sudden appearance on the article, and repairing that article will take me days. I've decided to let him get his "A" based on an article with numerous outright factual inaccuracies, not to mention an article padded up with text that doesn't belong there, and just fix it after he leaves. I am not a TA. If these classes would tag their articles at the beginning of the term, it would be one thing, but to have three articles on my watchlist hit during the holiday season-- when I could have guided these students along a better course all fall-- just is wrong. I can't babysit when we have no prior notice: I will repair these articles after the students are gone, since they just revert their faulty text right back in anyway. Seriously, it must be because college students are so attracted to Tourette syndrome and the "bizarre" but rare echopehenomena that I get to be an unpaid online TA for an absent professor. Jumping Frenchman of Maine will also have to be rewritten, and I came across another in the TS suite whose article name I forget right now. Not only is it not fair for these professors to think their students have the ability to write encyclopedia articles; it is not fair for regular editors to be used as their TAs. That class has 68 students; this is an absurd abuse of Wikipedia editors. How can someone who has never edited a single Wikipedia article dare to use Wikipedia to do his course work for him? I'm sorry for venting at you, I know it's not your fault, I know you're trying to help, but this whole thing is just wrong. I should be helping with the POV pushing at psychiatry, or writing articles-- instead I am Steve Potter's unpaid TA. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No don't be sorry. I want to hear you vent, after all I signed up to be an ambassador between the Wikipedia community and academia. Thanks so much for all you do here. One reason I am doing this is because, in particular, I saw your dissatisfaction over classroom edits. I hope to improve things! I'll be in contact with Professor Potter. As for the moment, 44 minutes until their final drafts are due!Biosthmors (talk) 23:16, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * When will they be gone? It pains me to leave inaccurate articles in the TS suite laying around, and now I've got four to fix: I want to fix them soon, but I don't want to be reverted by editors who aren't interested in learning, only a grade, or teach editors who will never come back to Wikipedia-- they never do, so no use in training them in correct editing.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:20, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand. Well when I asked the class on Monday who planned on continuing editing, a clear majority raised their hand. Of course, intentions and actions diverge, but never say never? ;-) I plugged WikiProject Medicine/Collaborative publication and many of them are pre-med. The professor also tries to emphasize that their work is stuck to them by their real name (as is done with publications to journals) to encourage quality writing. But you asked a question. Their final grade should be based off of the version that is up at at 7:00PM EST, so I say it's only 31 more minutes until you can take the gloves off! Biosthmors (talk) 23:29, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm hoping our JSTOR access will come through soon ... since Echopraxia now needs a complete rewrite, I may as well do it when I have journal access.  Maybe tomorrow I'll fix the most obvious, delete the most off-topic, and leave the rest til JSTOR comes through.  Thanks for listening, Bio ... this student business has made Wiki no fun.  I hope you are eventually successful, since so many of the rest of us are so discouraged.  I remember the days when Colin and I thought we would be able to write the most interesting History of Tourette syndrome; instead, you can just "hear" how frustrated we both are, and Colin is quite unflappable.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me. I understand. Feel free to also leave me reference requests. I can email them to you if I get a copy. Biosthmors (talk) 23:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Okey, dokey, got a very recent secondary review on Echopraxia that was helpful, dumped most of the junk, if you're inclined that review could be used for more, I think I'm done there. Palilia is still a mess, and since I just found a cut-and-paste plagiarized sentence (and I don't have most of the sources), I'm unsure if I should chop the thing back to nothing. If you have any of the sources, we might determine if there is any other plagiarism. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 00:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Confused
Hi. I do not understand why you removed the first redirect. I understand that the second one was wrong but the first one I thought was correct; I searched "Neuroscientific gender differences" and nothing came up so i created a page that would direct it to my article--> I got that idea from the wp:redirect page. What did I do wrong? i want to have my page be a redirect from other pages- is this not allowed? Also, what is wrong with the first sentence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahadadi28 (talk • contribs) 22:27, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at your talk page. Biosthmors (talk) 23:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Roussy–Lévy syndrome: student edits
See my reply on my user page.  kashmiri 00:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Chills (neuroscience)
There is no discussion to archive. Nor, as far as I see, is much discussion needed, as this is obviously the same topic. So, I acted boldly. If you don't agree with the merger/redirect, then please give some more explanation than just "see Help:merging". Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 12:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah. I reverted because I didn't see why it should be turned into a redirect without preserving some of that content (by it being appropriately merged into target article). Biosthmors (talk) 12:37, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * So what other content should be merged? I took what seemed to be useful and merged it into the target. --Randykitty (talk) 12:41, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah. I wasn't paying close enough attention. My apologies. I'll revert. Biosthmors (talk) 12:45, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Your query at FAC

 * Copied from WT:FAC: Could someone explain to me why the WMF is opposed to the idea of hiring someone who could competently (decided perhaps by only those who have written FAs) do peer reviews and FAC full-time? Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 17:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry about the digression there, Bio. I'll attempt an answer, but it's not something I'm that well versed on, so hopefully others will clarify. My understanding is that if the WMF were to take content positions, or hire staff to take content positions, it would jeapordize not only their non-profit status, but also open them up to litigation on several fronts. If they take content positions, then they would become legally liable for things like the extensive BLP violations on Wikipedia, and the pervasive amount of copyvio that exists on Wikipedia (by one estimate, 85% of articles-- an estimate I agree with, and a matter that became worse when the WMF hired away from regular editing our top copyvio person). I can't recall if you were around during the SOPA debacle, but it was not in Wikipedia's best interest for legislation aimed at internet copyvio to succeed, and they used their popularity to vocally force down bipartisan legislation in the US that would have helped address the pervasive copyvio problem on Wikipedia (they could never address all of the copyvio on Wikipedia, and that legislation would have possibly shut down Wikipedia). I think there are other issues surrounding the fact that Wikipedia hosts porn. By having no hand in content matters, WMF is not liable for the negative sides of this website. JohnBod is more up on this stuff, and I'm sure my answer is neither fully complete nor entirely accurate, and hope others will weigh in. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 19:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting, thanks for the reply. I also got some clarification over at User_talk:Johnbod. I appreciate it. Biosthmors (talk) 19:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Good stuff there. I hope all of this helps explain some of the issues surrounding how much the WMF cares about the quality of its content, and I'm sorry that old personal grudges meant this discussion got fractured to three pages, because it is a discussion worth having !  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 19:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and no problem. It helps. I hope we can do some things to get PR back to a healthy state, since it seems so important for article quality, FAC, GA, etc. Biosthmors (talk) 19:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:AN/I discussion notice, plus gratuitous quote from Sophocles' Antigone
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. My lord, I will not make pretense to pant

And puff as some light-footed messenger.

In sooth my soul beneath its pack of thought

Made many a halt and turned and turned again;

For conscience plied her spur and curb by turns.

“Why hurry headlong to thy fate, poor fool?” It's here.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!
So many times I read your comments on article's talk pages and I think "Thank you!" "Thank you!" "Thank you!" So here it is: Thank you for all your good comments, helping students and also preventing them making a lot of edits that need a lot of work after they have gone. Thank you! Lova Falk    talk   14:38, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A belated you're welcome! Thanks for stopping by. Biosthmors (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar!
and thank you too for pointing me to that list of popular pages. Since Wikicharts went bust I haven't found a new version until now. :-)  Serendi pod ous  16:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome! Biosthmors (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to a wikichat in London on the 9th; I'll mention it then.  Serendi pod ous  20:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Grading
No, I never received that information, or anything else. Still, you may be able to ask him for the class syllabi. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 17:48, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Dementia
regarding recent change on Dementia page, can you clarify why you un-did addition regarding national strategies and support organisations? I felt this edit was neutral. Would be interested to know if you felt that this page needed something to this effect, the language on this page is far too clinical and not enough emphasis on the range of treatments (CST for example) and community supports. KSSSCot (talk) 21:28, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment on my talk page...
Hey there thanks for commenting on my talk page, yes I've been a bit inactive of late. A combination of more work at work and less time at home makes editing more of a spotty process. I unfortunately don't see that changing any time soon but I'm happy to contribute when and where I can. Please let me know if I can help. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:30, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Animal models of schizophrenia
Hi Biosthmors. I was just wondering if you were keen to conduct the GA review for this article. You have made some comments on the talk page that seem to be aimed at reviewing the article. AIR corn (talk) 10:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * We're both content letting it sit at the moment: User_talk:Quasihuman. Thanks though. Biosthmors (talk) 16:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Student papers on Wikipedia
Hello! I wanted you to know that I have posted some comments about students being assigned to write Wikipedia articles, such as here: User:Biosthmors/Intro Neuro. (I stumbled across this when one of the resulting articles was nominated for deletion.) The article had previously been discussed here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine, and that is where I posted my comments. I'd appreciate your perspective. Thanks. --MelanieN (talk) 20:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm also trying to collect wisdom at User_talk:Biosthmors/Intro_Neuro, so feel free to say whatever there in a new section. Biosthmors (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I'll restrict my comments to the Project Medicine talk page, thanks; I wasn't concerned so much about your project, as about the whole idea of this kind of assignment and how it fits into Wikipedia. --MelanieN (talk) 20:31, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
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Malaria
Hi. What happened to the GA review of "Malaria"? Axl ¤  [Talk]  21:12, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * We were pestered for having the review open for months (despite still being in the process of making basic WP:GA improvements) so it was withdrawn by the nominator and we've been in touch and plan on polishing it up to GA for sure via the talk page. I'll be a co-nominator with Sasata this time. Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 21:16, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. [I thought that you were going for the record for the longest ever GA review. Actually I think that you may have the record, LOL.] Axl  ¤  [Talk]  22:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol. Then I'm happy about that! I think the article came a long way because of that review. =) Biosthmors (talk) 03:45, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice
Thanks for your message! I realized after I saved my edit that the quad tildes isn't needed in the edit section. I don't edit often enough to always remember that, and the "Sign what you write" messages everywhere do make it confusing. I appreciate the help! And HERE is where they belong, right?: Ge0nk (talk) 02:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Perfect! You're welcome. =) Biosthmors (talk) 02:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine Elective at UCSF
Thanks for the offer of help. Right now it looks like the elective will not formally launch until Springtime. Doc James will be coming the week of Jan 7 to give a broad overview of Wikiproject Medicine and to help lead some editing sessions. My plan was to advertise widely at UCSF and have folks come to the editing sessions with their own laptops, having already RSVP'd and signed up to edit an article. My hope is that by having people adopt an article before they come, they'll be more likely to follow through and attend and, afterward, be more likely to continue editing. To lower the activation energy of editing their first article, I was hoping to do the following:

1. Identify 100 articles that need editing - high importance articles that are still between start-A-quality. 2. For each of these articles, write one short edit and 1 supporting reference. 3. Write a short document describing each step a user would have to take to put in the edit and cite the reference.

Clearly there is a lot more to editing an article than this, but I thought it might be a good start. Since the event is still a month away, I'm open to any and all suggestions you have about how to make facilitate this process for new users. Thanks! Michaelturken (talk) 21:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message! That sounds great. Looks like there are 286 start-class high-importance articles:. Here's another way of viewing the data:. We like using review articles/clinical practice guidelines/meta analyses and such per WP:MEDRS as I bet you're aware. PubMed can be filtered for reviews and with a PMID # take it to here then you'll get a fully formatted cite journal template. Then place the source inside of ref tags in the article and per WP:CHEAT, the source will appear at the bottom. If James will be there, then that's pretty easy to show and explain, but let me know if you'd like any further assistance. There are several other ways to do it. Thanks again, and let me know if I could be of any more assistance! Biosthmors (talk) 04:31, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And User:Biosthmors/Intro_Neuro might serve your purposes well for #3. Biosthmors (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Sandy threw me this way, this looks exciting. I'd love to help this in whatever way I can, and am in the bay area. I'll poke Michael on his talk page. I can probably attend the prelim sessions of this at least, and help out with monitoring and instructional design stuff. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! Be sure to contact User talk:Jmh649, he's the lead on this one. Biosthmors (talk) 06:22, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And now I'm catching up, too ... week of Jan 7 is way too early for me ... I may be in CA later in the month. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Cerebral malaria
Hi Biosthmors,

Do you know what is happening with this article? I see you blanked it to a redirect but the student reverted you. Is it factually accurate?

Colin°Talk 11:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * IMO, the article should be turned into a stub. The semester is over, so the editor that created it is most likely gone. I don't know if it is factually accurate. I volunteered to improve things by having a course page, teaching the students, adding to the professors knowledge of Wikipedia, and improving the classroom assignment itself, but not to act as a fact-checker for every sentence the students publish on Wikipedia. I've asked the professor to notify me if after grading the assignments he notices any particular problem articles. Biosthmors (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is what we expect the professors and other subject-experts to do. And if someone does their assignment on wikipedia in mainspace then I expect it to be marked and fixed just as quickly as it was published. Leaving it for a month isn't good enough. One suspects some of these profs might actually get their students to print off the page for them to mark on paper. We have to expect that for any writing of any size, there will be problems and so every article will need work. I wonder if some of them think it ok to publish crap on Wikipedia and not get even basic biology right. Having a student essay with a "D" grade is one thing if it is a drawer, but quite another if it is "informing" the world. *sigh* I think this class was way too big, attempted work that was beyond them and outside of the prof's subject knowledge, and wasn't proactively fixed up. Colin°Talk 15:58, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Good points. I wish the professor or subject matter experts were actually Wikipedians too (or at least that they have a fairly strong understanding of most things here). I've proposed to this professor that the length requirement is substantially pared down (among many other suggestions). I don't think WP:A4SE should have long length or byte requirements. That encourages error-making, IMO. You remind me of this problem I raise. I'm sure Professor Potter would be deeply disappointed to see this basic error published, and that it is a reflection of his class and assignment. I mentioned this error to him in a phone conversation as a fundamental basic biology error, but I didn't want to single the student out. I figure "there will be problems and so every article will need work" is generally true for more than 99% of articles here, it just depends how intense one's scrutiny is, I guess. You remind me that I should start a user subpage for what I think is the best structure for this particular assignment. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 16:43, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * I wonder which newbie it was. Thank you. Biosthmors (talk) 16:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine Event at UCSF
In answer to your question, any help you can lend us with bringing WikiProject Medicine to UCSF would be extremely welcome. Right now I'm looking for experienced Wikipedians who might be willing to volunteer their time (either in person or online) from January 7- January 11 from 11AM-3PM (PST). Also, since I'll be inviting folks to adopt an article, I have been making a sign-up list where people can see what the top importance, C or B quality articles are, and also what area of medicine they fall under. I thought it would be great to include monthly page views, but I haven't figured out a way to do this easily. You can take a look and feel free to edit/amend: Adopt an Article Spreadsheet. I know this falls outside of Wikipedia, but it's great to have a sortable database that's intuitive for those not yet familiar with Wikipedia's interface. Let me know what you think. And thanks again for offering to help! Mike Turken (talk · contribs · email) (If I write on your page, please reply on mine.) 05:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Great! I should be available for online assistance during much of that time. Biosthmors (talk) 22:42, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems a bit long of a spreadsheet. =) Maybe if it were half that size I'd think it would be better. But I doubt the spreadsheet will make much difference in the turnout you have. And I wouldn't bother trying to cut out half of the articles. I used to coordinate volunteers for things and I would repeatedly see a big difference in how many people signed up to do things, and then how many people would show. Maybe I didn't master things. I can't remember how often I used personalized reminder emails/phone calls or not. Good luck! Biosthmors (talk) 16:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes please
Your offer of assistance is very much appreciated!! I will indeed ping as needed, also feel free to watchlist and step in especially over the next few (hopefully not too many!) weeks. 04:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to ping me. Best! Biosthmors (talk) 07:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that
Got your message on my talk page and I am just now getting to it. Actually I do all the edits to the Wikipedia backlog page mannally, because I am old school that way. ;) The guy you want to talk to about bots maintaining such things is Rich Farmbrough: his bot, Femtobot, used to maintain the backlog page until the Arbcom suspended it indefinitely. On the(rare) occasions when it was slow to update the page, I would manually edit it. So, until a new bot comes along, I'll continue to update the page. Meanwhile, I do wish you a happy new year and good luck getting a bot for WP:Medicine.    Alvin Seville (talk) 00:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Great to know. Thanks. And Happy New Years to you too! Biosthmors (talk) 07:16, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Interstitial Cystitis Question
Hi Biosthmors, when you get a chance, can you explain the quantify tags on the IC article? I'm unfamiliar with that particular template and would like to know exactly how to address the issue that the tag is about. Thanks! TylerDurden8823 (talk) 00:43, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Commented. Would have said more but short on time. Biosthmors (talk) 16:11, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Any chance you have access to this review article? It looks promising for me to be able to give a non-primary source for the comorbidity issues for interstitial cystitis but I cannot access the article. Please let me know when you get a chance. Here is the link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22983268 TylerDurden8823 (talk) 03:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I checked and I don't at the moment, but it's possible I will next week. Try WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request for now? Biosthmors (talk) 05:38, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Biosthmors, if you have any suggestions for where I should look to address those quantify tags for the interstitial cystitis article that would be greatly appreciated. I looked but could not find more specific numbers but perhaps there are places I didn't look and should have. I tried the Resource Exchange but to no avail. The user I tried to get in contact with never responded. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 22:40, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's the holidays, that's probably why. I would hop on Web of Science for you if I could and search for the dual topics of "epidemiology" and "interstitial cystitis" if I could but I probably won't have access tomorrow either due to the holidays myself. Did you find the peer review helpful? I hope so! After IC/BPS gets up to GA, might you want to pick one for Wikipedia_talk:MED? Happy Holidays! Sorry I can't be of more assistance at the moment. Maybe with some patience RX will come through for you. That's my impression of RX, is that it is generally helpful. Biosthmors (talk) 07:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I specifically wrote on Phoebe's wall. I believe her name was on that page as one of the people who is helpful for this kind of issue but I haven't heard back. Perhaps I'll check there for a different user or put up an Rx request or check out Web of Science though I'm not exactly clear on what it is. I'm also not sure I understoof what the Good Article Top 500 Goals for 2013 thing is all about. Can you explain what that is exactly? Happy holidays to you as well!TylerDurden8823 (talk) 07:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I was just encouraging people to make a goal of getting a highly-viewed medicine-related article up to GA status this year, that's all. I'd definitely go to Web of Science (if you have access, do you?) Try a RX post on the RX page if not. Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 07:57, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm working on costochondritis now which needed a good amount of work. I don't know anything about Web of Science (including whether or not I have access to it) so I'll have to take a look at it tomorrow and go from there. If Web of Science doesn't work, yeah, I'll try again with the Rx page. Thanks for the advice & I'll be in touch soon. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 09:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bioshthmors, I'm going to continue working on it but yeah, I had a feeling it wasn't at stub class anymore. Thanks!TylerDurden8823 (talk) 19:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Help needed
Hi Bios, per your request... I am having trouble at Talk:Circumcision explaining the scope of the article. Can you assist today? Thanks... 17:01, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look right now, thanks. Feel free to ping again as needed. Biosthmors (talk) 19:55, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Bronchitis Help
Hi Biosthmors, if/when you get a chance, I took you up on your offer to address some of the top 500 med articles (as you know I did a bit on costochondritis and will come back to that) and I've been working on bronchitis. I'm working to get that to GA status and I'm sure it has a long way to go since when I started it was at C class. If you have any suggestions on how to better the article further, I'd be happy to get some input from you. At this stage I've added a little bit here and there and just been beefing up the references for the article considering it had very few at all when I started. Thanks! TylerDurden8823 (talk) 07:46, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well maybe you could open a peer review on the one you'd like to focus on most, but I guess from a quick glance at the references I think the same thing I said at Talk:Costochondritis applies for now. Thanks again for all your good work. =) Let me know when/if you open a peer review. Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 03:46, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added a good amount of other sources besides Mayo Clinic stuff to the Bronchitis page now. What are the tertiary sources to which you were referring? Are you referring to Mayo Clinic? If so, I'm not sure that's relying on it exactly since that's 6 of 19 sources but it's much less so than it was before. I'm still adding sources but I need to know if that's the tertiary source you're referring to. Thanks. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:12, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I also counted the American Lung Association source, the National Institutes of Health sources, and the A.D.A.M. Medical Encyclopedia source as tertiary. I think it's fair to say the article currently relies on tertiary sources, instead of secondary ones. I'm sure it's tons better than it was before, thanks! I think there is a tremendous difference between a bad start class article and a good start class article, by the way. Don't put too much weight on the rankings. =) Honestly, if you just kept going around and fixing up articles that are suffering like you've done at these two, you'd do a tremendous amount of good, even though you'd come nowhere near to what people were expecting to see in a GA. Thanks again. Biosthmors (talk) 04:25, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Most readers would probably be satisfied with a high-quality start-class or C-class article anyways. I doubt many users demand that we have GA standards in most articles. If they did they wouldn't use us. =) Biosthmors (talk) 04:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I didn't realize those would qualify as tertiary sources too. What's the issue with tertiary sources anyway? Just wondering, I actually don't know. In the meanwhile I'll continue searching for good secondary source/review articles to continue to add. I've only started improving those articles; I'm sure I can do much more with them.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Great. See WP:Tertiary. We're to be based off secondary sources, because we're a tertiary source. If we base instead off of tertiary sources, then we are bound to have a mini-version of what we should have. Biosthmors (talk) 04:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's clearer. So, there's nothing wrong with tertiary sources, it's just that secondary sources are preferred. Got it. It should be a bit better now, I added in three more review articles but I can't seem to find much more from PubMed searches at the moment. I'm going to look at some other high view medical articles that are in dire need of attention soon.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

A note of appreciation
I just wanted to drop you a note, letting you know how much I appreciate the work you have been putting into the essay on student editing, and more broadly on issues related to it. What you have been doing has been very helpful, and I've enjoyed working with you. Best, --Tryptofish (talk) 20:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

/
Talk:Fecal incontinence/GA1 I think basically all that is left is to just delete all the primary sources and replace as much of that content with secondary as possible...I will be doing this over next few days. Something I can't do is run a bot over it after this for typos and to fetch DOIs etc. lesion (talk) 22:30, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * thanks for your advice about GA criteria and for contacting the reviewer. I guessed this but didn't want to hassle during holiday season and all. In the mean time I was working on a article from that popular pages list. Not placed a GAN template because I understand only one GAN per editor at any one time... lesion (talk) 07:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Talk:Fecal incontinence/GA1 thanks for comment...not sure of best way to proceed...but I would not be too bothered if whole section reduced to one sent. lesion (talk) 03:27, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year

 * Thank you thank you. Happy New Year to you too! I'm glad you're back. Here's to a great 2013. Biosthmors (talk) 22:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)