User talk:Bluerasberry/Archive 19

Wikiconference
Hello Blue,

I looked at this page to see who to contact about the Wikiconference, but the team page is a redlink. I am assuming you are involved, or can tell me who is.

I signed up for the conference last week, but it is over-subscribed, so I am on a waiting list.

While I appreciate that it is free, which is a nice perk, the downside of being free is that no one who registered has an incentive to deregister if they realize they will not be able to make it. A small handful of ultra-diligent people will do so, but many may not, especially if they think they might make it for part of the time at the last minute. Which means I am concerned that few names on the wait-list will be cleared.

Do you know how many are on the wait-list, and whether it is likely I will be added to the invite list? Not living in New York, I have made arrangements for accommodations, so I need to cancel if I will be unable to attend.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  13:30, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * , first, you come there is room. I apologize for stressing you out and regret that what is happening to you must be happening to others also, and am not sure what to do with the conference being a week away.
 * We also are confused about what to do. Part of the reason why we did not charge a lot is because of our grant with WMF and especially with the school. If we charged then we would have additional obligations which we could not manage without hiring staff, and the Wikimedia community and WMF are highly adverse to hired staff even if that means many other drawbacks. The big advantage of having a free conference open to the public is that it reduces criticism that somehow the conference restricts any demographic from attending. We also hardly advertised it at all and just in community channels, and still the number of registrants is already beyond our capacity. We have no idea how many people will show up who registered, or who will show up without registering.
 * The space we have in Manhattan would be minimum 50k to rent at non-profit rates and perhaps closer to 70k considering all the perks we are getting. That is donated by the venue, whereas the WMF gave us 12k for the conference and some more for scholarships to increase diversity of views. Our budget is 12k plus a little fundraising, so with that money and no staff managing a 3-day conference done by non-professionals raises a lot of problems. We could have done the conference elsewhere with more space but we emphasized location and wifi access, so the location is sweet for what it is despite not meeting demand of all the people who want to go and the part about being difficult to charge admission. Plus sometimes it is easier to get a donation of a really nice space than a 3k space. Collecting admission was not something we ever needed, but as you say, with free admission people do not feel an obligation to attend or cancel. We talked a lot about charging just $5 as a nominal barrier to weed out people who would not come - it was decided that we did not have ready ability to manage this.
 * I can only say that we worry a lot about other people's time and are not sure what to do at this point.
 * I listed the conference organizers on the contact page. We do not have any central forum set up for conversation about the conference.
 * I regret the confusion! I can only say that if there is another conference then I will do things differently next time.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  14:00, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prompt response. Yes, I totally understand that charging, even a small amount, creates a whole new set of logistics. I'm looking forward to it.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:34, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd expect a considerable drop-out rate, so go. The sign-up rates for talks seem very low so far. Hope it all goes well! Johnbod (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Survey for editors who mentor newcomer
Dear Wikipedia Ambassador,

I am seeking input on your experience as a mentor to new Wikipedians. This survey is designed to provide insight for the development of a new mentorship support tool on Wikipedia. If you have a moment, please take this survey, it should not take more than 10 minutes of your time to complete.

https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_4V2SSrhU2NFOVAV

Also, if you are able to, I would greatly appreciate it if you would send the following survey to the mentee you worked with:

https://syracuseuniversity.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_4V1quUdMZ1By3Ah

Thank you in advance for your participation, Gabriel Mugar 13:33, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I complained about this at meta:Grants:IEG/Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I appreciate what you are doing but it is not good for the community for outsiders to continually seek to recruit Wikipedia volunteer time. Please seek review from your university ethics board.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  20:17, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

captioning of video
Hey Lane - do you know who I might ping regarding captioning on the new medical editor video? On this page it doesn't work but on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine page it does. I have no idea if I've done something wrong or if it's just a glitch in the system. Thx. Ian Furst (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. The community member most active in promoting video is User:Fuzheado. It is my opinion that he would want to know about what you have done because I have never seen anyone else do anything like this. It would be good for him to know about this project and also he would be most likely to be able to refer you to other help. There are not many users who try to work in this space, but if you contact Fuzheado, it might be best to ping him on the talk page of WikiProject Wiki Makes Video because he is trying to promote that project. If you need other suggestions then come back to me.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  11:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Oral cancer screening
Lane - has CR published anything on oral cancer screening, brush biopsy, use of blue light examination, etc....? I'm reworking the pages on leukoplakia and dysplasia. Ian Furst (talk) 01:40, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I looked and nothing is published lately. I will check older documents. I expect over this summer we will began publishing recommendations from the American Dental Association as they just agreed in the last month or so to start sending us information to share.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  15:15, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Blue
Got your note at paclitaxel, and will look to the morphine discussion. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Royal Society/Neuroscience Wikipedia Edit-a-thon at the Royal Society, June 2014
Ping! Saturday morning, UK time. Please communicate via the event talk page - let us know when you are active etc, and add any work done to that section. Note the new list of RS journal articles that will be released to be freely available online from 6-8 June. Wiki at Royal Society John (talk) 00:12, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

The Pulse (WP:MED newsletter) June 2014
The first edition of The Pulse has been released. The Pulse will be a regular newsletter documenting the goings-on at WPMED, including ongoing collaborations, discussions, articles, and each edition will have a special focus. That newsletter is here.

The newsletter has been sent to the talk pages of WP:MED members bearing the User WPMed template. To opt-out, please leave a message here or simply remove your name from the mailing list. Because this is the first issue, we are still finding out feet. Things like the layout and content may change in subsequent editions. Please let us know what you think, and if you have any ideas for the future, by leaving a message here.

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:23, 5 June 2014 (UTC) on behalf of WikiProject Medicine.

You've got mail
Hey. I dropped you an email through Wikipedia a week or so ago. I just wanted to make sure that you got it. --EpochFail (talk &bull; contribs) 18:44, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * , oh, I missed it, but found it now. I will reply soon.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  18:48, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Bluerasberry/cr
User:Bluerasberry/cr, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Bluerasberry/cr and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:Bluerasberry/cr during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ricky81682 (talk) 08:52, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I commented on the COIN as well as the MfD. If you want to talk about it you know where to find me.  DGG ( talk ) 17:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Christina Novelli
Peterchiapperino (talk) 02:55, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello! I will meet you at that article.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  11:27, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

BMJ offering 25 free accounts to Wikipedia medical editors
Neat news: BMJ is offering 25 free, full-access accounts to their prestigious medical journal through The Wikipedia Library and Wiki Project Med Foundation (like we did with Cochrane). Please sign up this week: BMJ --Cheers, Ocaasi via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

The Pulse July 2014 edition
Hi Blue Rasberry! I hope that you're well. I'd be very grateful if you'd contribute to monthly focus of July edition of the WPMED. I've written a little more about it on the page. --LT910001 (talk) 03:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Re: Last Day Rush Comm 106i

 * I responded to your message on my talk page on my talk page, but also wanted to follow up here in case I responded incorrectly and you didn't get notified.


 * Our quarter ends this week. I want to reduce the load on editors if students have no genuine interest in following up. Is there a way students could pledge to follow up on feedback in Wikipedia? If they haven't pledged, then editors can just ignore it.


 * I also considered giving students extra credit for following up on the feedback but I don't have a clear, scalable way of tracking what feedback they get and whether they follow up. Also, grades are due next week.


 * If there is somewhere I can go to help edit my students contributions to "clean their donations," so to say, let me know. I'm happy to help.


 * I have to say I feel the students are being held to a much higher standard than my actual experiences on Wikipedia. I edited a page a few weeks ago, my edit was reverted with no reason given, and then the reverter did not respond to my messages on his talk page. Other edits I've made have stayed up with no message or controversy. It seems as if editors are giving students more scrutiny, taking issue with post quality that is similar to quality I see on WP all the time, etc. It is a bit confusing. For a very clear example of what I mean, see the previous topic to your post on my talk page where a student was accused of plagiarism with no evidence, basically sent into hysterics by a Wikipedia editor. (She received several apologies from the WP editor who did that, as well as other WP editors. I'm not angry. I know it is confusing. But this leads me to believe that students are being scrutinized more than the random editor.)


 * Our procedure for the class has been to have a peer review a few weeks ago so quality and clarity is as good as we can get it before "donating information to charity," to use your metaphor. Students are not at all used to neutral POV and Wikipedia's genre conventions. I wrote about why Wikipedia style is so unusual and how I will take steps to better train future students [in my discussions over the plagiarism accusation]. The way I had understood contributing was that different people in the world have different skills. Some have a perspective or interest that means they know a lot about something, others have the ability to edit and smooth out tone, others like to chase vandals, whatever. I knew my students had a hard time with Neutral POV and we worked on that, but some of them still include these essay like sentences -- easily deleted in many cases. I had underestimated the burden of editors working on smoothing out the copy. (I do that smoothing work myself once in a while in Wikipedia sometimes.) It would be interesting to have copyediting and technical writing students practicing editing, just as much as we try to teach research through wikipedia. Only teaching research makes the labor of all the copy work invisible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lirani (talk • contribs) 17:50, 10 June 2014‎
 * I replied on your talk page.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  19:12, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Undesirable health care outcomes
This seems a WP:fork of Iatrogenesis and Medical error. SW3 5DL (talk) 17:23, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * As you know, I just made up this phrase to describe a concept that is described but not named in literature. I created this phrase to include things which you said are not iatrogenesis/medical error. I am still getting sources, but in short - I am proposing this article as a list of all bad things described in health care ratings, patient satisfaction research, or government managed hospital comparison studies.
 * There is quite a bit screwy with this article but I had not expected you to say it was a fork of those articles when I designed it to be an umbrella over that and so many other topics which you say are definitely not iatrogenesis/medical error. No worries if you wish to AfD it because I myself am not sure if it will pass. Other thoughts? What would you have me do? Also, I am paid by an organization which does advocacy and lobbying against "undesirable health care outcomes", so a I have a professional as well as personal bias in thinking that this concept exists.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  18:02, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This topic really is covered by the other articles I mentioned above. Gathering sources for 'all bad things' seems WP:OR. Patient satisfaction research is not objective. Patients don't like a lot of outcomes but that doesn't mean there's been medical error. e.g., Autism is not caused by MMR vaccinations and therefore is not a 'health care outcome.' Same with the 'health care ratings.' These are sometimes done by a hospital's local newspaper based on a survey of patients, who often complain about all sorts of things that have nothing to do with iatrogenesis/medical error and certainly can't be attributed to a 'health care outcome.' I understand what you are trying to do, but it is a WP:FORK, and it does violate WP:NPOV. SW3 5DL (talk) 18:30, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree that it violates WP:NPOV because I do not have sources defining the concept. I still do not think this is a fork because I designed the article specifically to be more inclusive than medical errors and do not want people to confuse this with medical errors. You are right about this being original research. I moved this to my space at User:Bluerasberry/Undesirable health care outcomes because I do not have good sources yet but I am still thinking about this. In my country an organization called Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality oversees funding of hundreds of billions of dollars a year to health care organizations, and somehow, it evaluates them to see what good things they do and what bad things they do. As best as I can tell they have no consistent term for describing good and bad things. I ought not move this article to mainspace unless I find some list to cite defining good things and bad things. Thanks for your feedback.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  19:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If you have another name for "everything related to health care that is bad" then let me know.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  19:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That was good moving it to user space. I didn't want to nom it for deletion as that seemed heavy-handed. It's a good idea to continue to work on it. If I come across sources that would be helpful, I'll post them on the subpage for you. SW3 5DL (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You might find more sources under 'unintended healthcare outcomes' on Google. Also, I'd keep healthcare as one word. Here's a source I found using the above term in a Google search. But at the end of the day, 'unintended healthcare outcomes,' really are medical errors, it's just being given a more neutral name, as some view the word 'error' as suggesting intention. SW3 5DL (talk) 20:28, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Draft Template for WikiProject Globalization's 2014 Wikimania leaflet
Please comment on or edit the Draft Template for WikiProject Globalization's 2014 Wikimania leaflet. See the template and details here. Thanks! Meclee (talk) 13:19, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

no harm done there
Hello Bluerasberry :) Fwiw, I did take a look last week at that deletion discussion and decided to stay away; a good outcome today, imo... Though the broader npov question remains. Perhaps I'll try and look into the lexical question a bit more closely (though no promises). 86.128.169.211 (talk) 17:34, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Lane, regarding the technical definition of "harm" in medicine, please don't miss this (from another "ideal" MEDRS ). 86.128.169.211 (talk) 15:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

My explanation for the use of Ms. Temple's narrative ...
Lane,

Thank you for stepping in. It's one of the great things about Wikipedia that, on the occasions when you do lose your head, someone you respect can come in with a cooler head and get you calmed down enough to realize how out of it you were.

As I noted there, I have apologized to David on his talk page and struck through all the personal attacks I made. Amazing what a good night's sleep can do.

To pick up on your thread there, I consider my use of LWD's brand narrative justified under WP:SELFPUB: "Self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities". There are, I realize, some qualifications to that listed there, but I do not believe any of them apply. Daniel Case (talk) 17:35, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I do not disagree, but rather I am just saying that when there is a dispute to fall back on clarification of rationale. I think was the one who said "Wikipedians do not like arguments, but they like arguing" and once you post a response to someone's argument that often resolves the issue because people just like their challenges to get a response.   Blue Rasberry   (talk)  17:45, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I probably would have posted that last night but I forgot the shortcut. Daniel Case (talk) 17:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I didn't say that. Don't know who did. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 06:20, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

A draft on a topic in your area of interest
I believe Draft:The Unofficial Guides to Medicine is the type of topic you might be interested in. Please evaluate it for suitability for inclusion in mainspace. If it's outside your comfort zone please pass the request on to WPMED. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:51, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Feel free to drop anything else you see health related either here on my page or at WPMED. I responded to this one.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  19:39, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Community support services
First I have to say I love the picture of the hamster in the edit page here. I don't know that I've ever seen anything like it on any other edit pages and even if I were coming here as the arrogant, obnoxious, self-righteous, condescending (I could go on) bastard I am sometimes accused of being it would probably be much harder for me to do so after seeing it. Anyway I really like the idea of your community support services proposal particularly in light of the lawsuit which has been mentioned at the BLP noticeboard. I wish it all the luck in the world and if you ever think I might be able to help in a real way let me know. John Carter (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind words. Hamsters have a relieving effect on me too. Sometimes when I get a new tool I suddenly find lots of uses for it. I have done volunteering for some highly stressful nonprofit causes, and they had a practice of offering counseling to their volunteers who added stress to their lives in the course of volunteering. If you ever meet someone in stress as a result of their good Wikipedia editing then send them to that project page. As with so many things, a case management system for counseling referrals can only be developed if it is tested and used.
 * Could I ask you to use your own best judgment about inviting any Wikipedians in that lawsuit to the community support services page? I would prefer to advocate for anyone who shows up and wants support than be a judge or moderator of whom ought to be offered the services, except in cases when it is someone close to my work. In the future if you send anyone there I would likewise advocate that they get some consideration, and that in the future we as a community decide what we can reasonably offer to protect volunteers and reduce stress.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  02:50, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The impression I've gotten from the discussion on Jimbo's talk page is that the suit will be dismissed as a SLAPP fairly quickly and without much fuss, but it might not be a bad idea to take advantage of the silly situation arising in the first place and maybe invite Jimbo or anyone else from the foundation and those individuals named in the lawsuit to go to the CSS page. A lot of that could of course be done at Jimbo's talk page too but it wouldn't be a bad idea to use the situation to the greater good, like letting people know that such options exist. John Carter (talk) 15:32, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I haven't been on here for forever, thanks for the compliment. I'm going to be doing some more updates on a couple medical topics in the next bit, great to see you helping add some of the emerging literature! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syleth (talk • contribs) 02:35, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Another draft for you to evaluate
Please take a look at Draft:Medical Communications Industry. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I replied.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  13:30, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Statin image
Lane, this is not ideal. The image doesn't say anything! It doesn't say who uses it, what it is meant to convey, etc etc. What is your point? JFW &#124; T@lk  20:32, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * This is Prof Rory Collins expressing a concern that if people get frightened off statins there will eventually be a consequence at an epidemiological level. JFW &#124; T@lk  20:34, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The revised caption still worries me. The FDA is hardly "raising awareness" (in an activism sense) but rather issuing a report. JFW &#124; T@lk  20:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, do I understand correctly that you might be at Wikimania? JFW &#124; T@lk  20:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not taking any health position at all, and I regret my failure to add this image without seeming to take a position in a controversy. I just want all organizations which do health education to make their content freely available for reuse on Wikipedia. The image I shared is not the best that exists but it is as good as it gets with a free license.
 * I added the Rory Collins article to the section. I know nothing about this controversy, and although it was not my intent to start a debate or give controversial information, if you know of other sources which I ought to integrate there then I would put those there as well.
 * Again - I put the image there because it was marginally related and because every other layman health publication puts images in its content. I hardly even like this image, but I would like to encourage a trend of adding more images to Wikipedia and I want health organizations to feel pressured to give content. This is an "access to media" addition, and has nothing to do with my opinions on statins.
 * Yes, I will be at Wikimania for all days. I hope to meet you there in person.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  20:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, I get it. The improvements to the caption do help. I will only be at Wikimania on the last day (work duties interfering) but we'll definitely meet then! JFW &#124; T@lk  20:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination
Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/George P. Larrick at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with db-g7, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 15:27, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

The Pulse
I did some bold copy editing and made three proposals on the talk page. - - MrBill3 (talk) 08:39, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Buffy hummingbird
Please see note on your DYK review. Yoninah (talk) 02:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you please give the DYK another look over? Cwmhiraeth created a new hook, and we need someone else to check it over and officially approve it. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:03, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

appreciate
Help, am grateful as you have been through my account and have discovered my suckpupet mistake, and have given me direction on what to do, thank, am Jesmion 196.46.246.176 (talk) 22:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thanks!

GoGatorMeds (talk) 15:46, 11 July 2014 (UTC) 

Acknowledgment, AM book
The opportunity for creating the book "Alternative medicine", as at 2014 CE resulted from the introduction of images in a series of revisions to the lead article in July 2014, in connection with a discussion of a proposal on the article's Talk page. --Qexigator (talk) 07:03, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation
Hi, I have been asked to update Wikipedia pages for the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.  The material is more than three years old, and we want to bring it up to date. However, I have a conflict of interest and do not want to violate any COI policies. I have read the COI policies, as well as a lot of other helpful information, but am a newbie at this, so I'm still confused. I'd love to talk to you and figure out the best way to go about this to serve the public's interest. Can you help? Savannah38 (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

BMJ
Please fill out this very short form to receive your free access to BMJ's library: link to form. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:35, 16 July 2014 (UTC)