User talk:Bocafan76/Archive 1

Invitation
Hi, I noticed that you have made some useful edits to Argentine football articles, perhaps you would be interested in joining WikiProject Argentine football. Regards E  P  23:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Good job
Thanks for keeping some of the Paraguayan football articles up to date. Keep up the good work :) .Bruno18 (talk) 17:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Meetup
Meetup/Tampa -- You're invited! Hires an editor (talk) 04:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Notable players
The policy is clear, if you want to have someone listed as a notable player, you must have WP:PROVEIT, I have no obligation to disprove it, and am incapable of doing so, as I do not know what the term notable means in this context Fasach Nua (talk) 15:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Fasach Nua has made this style of edits on several other 'National Team' articles.


 * I have reported him on the 3RR notice board for this behavior.


 * Aaron carass (talk) 15:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The complaint has been moved to WP:ANI.
 * Aaron carass (talk) 18:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Fasach Nua
I've ameneded the request for comment about the user Fasach Nua concerning his editing of 'National Football Team' articles.

I'd invite you to comment as you were involved in this issue.

Aaron carass (talk) 02:37, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Created a new 'request for comment' specifically about 'National Football Team' articles for the user Fasach Nua.
 * Aaron carass (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

2008 Miami Dolphins season
I'm not sure if if it's you or User:Alakazam as both of you have heavily edited this article recently, but the game summaries need to be written in a much more appropriate tone. They should never be called the "Fins" and things like "Ronnie Brown had a field day" and "The Fins splashed first" have no place on the article. This is an encyclopedia, and the article needs to stick to the facts and remain neutral.► Chris Nelson Holla! 23:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Chrisjnelson, I only make score and standings edits, plus I sometimes revert vandalism from the article. I don't like witting the game summary 'cause am a die hard dolphins fan an if I was to write it, the summary would probably be one side it, so that's why I don't do it, User:Alakazam usually writes the summary. Bocafan76 (talk) 03:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC).

Cristian Chávez
Hi mate, I saw you just made the Cristian Manuel Chávez article, good work. Please remember to use a key, this causes the player to be sorted by surname in the categories. You could add new articles to the Wikiproject Argentine football/New articles page, and put it on your watchlist to see what articles other people are making. You might also want to put the WikiProject Argentine football page on your watchlist so you can keep uptodate on whats happening, I don't think anyone else except me watches it, no-one seems to respond to my comments ;-) All the best E  P  23:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

B Nacional
I would say a short section on the 2008-09 overview page would be the best place to start. As you can see, the maintenance workload to keep such articles updated is pretty high. perhaps league tables for the various divisions could be added at the end of each season to avoid the high maintenance workload. If I had time I would spend it creating articles on completed competitions that need little or no maintenence. As a Boca fan maybe you would be interested in working on the Copa Libertadores 1977 article, it's the only one of your 6 that has no article on English Wikipedia. I am always willing to help out with advice and useful sources. All the best E  P  00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent work E  P  23:37, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

RfD nomination of a template redirect
I have nominated a redirect to a template for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you.  MBisanz  talk 14:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Friendly response.
Hello,

From what I have been able to deduce so far is that there is one article that covers an entire season of a league... which is tricky for the leagues that have a Apertura/Clausura format. I have written of the talk page of the WikiFootball Project to see if they would like one article per tournament or one that covers the entire season. I also asked what's the general manual of style for the "XXXX in country football" articles.

I asked about all this cause some of the same information is being displayed in multiple pages. I know you're involved in the articles that cover Argentine football so I'll use that as an example. The "XXXX-XX in Argentine football" articles feature the same info as the "Primera Division Argentina XXXX-XX" articles, which is redundant. It is also different from the manual of style the European articles (which seem to have the most oversight) that cover "XXXX-XX in country football" than the latin american leagues... so maybe they know something we, those who edit the latin american leagues, don't know.

I myself edit the Ecuadorian league. The way I have it set up is the league season article has all the details of the season (tables, scores, top scorers), while the "XXXX in Ecuadorian football" articles (the little I have created) have the essentials from the leagues (the winners, the team relegates, THE top scorer, plus the national team results, etc)... which is more along the lines of the English football articles (without a doubt the country that has the most oversight and standardization). And I think this is the way it should be done for the latin american leagues because it is how the rest seem to be doing it. Digirami (talk) 07:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya, I figured the editors of the other leagues might be a problem. That's why I took the issue to the WikiProject to their opinion; it could be used as leverage should you and/or I decide to keep the rest of the latin leagues inline with everyone else (see: here). So far, one person responded saying there should be one article be league season, not one per tournament. But I don't know how much of an authoritative voice the user is. In the meantime, we should just keep our respective leagues as best maintained as we can to set a good example (i.e., one article per league season, and the year in football articles as simple as possible in respect to the leagues). Digirami (talk) 08:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Excellent. You can thank me for putting the templates in the 2008-09 Primera Division Argentina article. I did the same thing to the Serie A de Brasil in the hopes that they would use it. I'm gonna try to see if I can merge the Paraguay articles since I have the templates working in that league already. We should discuss simplifying the "XXXX-XX in Argentine football" articles, starting with the current (to set a precedent). Digirami (talk) 08:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Paraguayan football
Just a heads up, I've changed the 2009 in Paraguayan football article to conform with the norm, and Primera División de Paraguay 2009 is now the primary article for the league. There is also a discussion for merging as well. I also have merging discussions for 2009-I Copa Mustang & Primera División Peruana 2008. Slds. Digirami (talk) 11:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Primera Division
I started a discussion about a consistent disambiguation for all leagues that are "Primera Division". The decision will affect how the Primera Division Argentina is named in the future, so you may want to say something. See here. Digirami (talk) 20:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Football contributions
Hi, I wanted to thank you for your numerous contributions to Futbol articles. Great work. --ChaChaFut (talk) 22:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Article improvement
Hi, I saw that you came back to WP:ArF. I think we need to liven things up a bit, what would you say to starting an Argentine football article improvement drive. There are some articles that are badly in need of improvement such as Club Atlético Lanús, Colón de Santa Fe or any number of players, managers or stadia. We could select one article a week/fortnight to focus on. What do you think? King of the North   East  01:31, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Managerial changes for Argentina 2008-09
Hey there! Hope all is good. Mind if I ask you something? Do you think you can change the table for managerial change for the Primera Division Argentina 2008-09 to the format below?

Obviously I know you can quite fill in all the details, but I think you could be able to fill in the Team, Outgoing Manager, Manner of departure, and Replaced By from the information that is already there. Thanks in advance. Digirami (talk) 19:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Renaming
Hey. I opened a discussion about renaming Primera Division season articles at Talk:Primera División Argentina 2009–10. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks. Digirami (talk) 01:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: Boca Juniors
That discussion led to a consensus? I don't think so...--Dantetheperuvian (talk) 21:16, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you think you know everything, but is wrong. Jonathan dos Santos played five matches: besides the aforementioned, he also played against Gavà and against Logroñés. You can check: There were five, not three games.

Ah, the Barcelona B changed its name to Atlètic Barcelona in 2007. But in the infobox, it was agreed that Barcelona B would be smaller and to patronize. Therefore, not reverse it, on pain of being locked for edits.


 * Hi. Of course, you are right in wanting the article with correct information. Sorry if my statement seemed offensive, it was not my intention.

I follow all of the Barcelona B and so I'm comfortable editing on this subject and his players. Actually, Jonathan dos Santos is referred to only as 'Jonathan'and Jonathan Soriano as 'Soriano'.Any questions, just ask.

And again, I apologize if I offended you. Until next time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Picolotto (talk • contribs) 04:54, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Picolotto (talk) 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Barça B
If Barcelona Atlètic article was using the old logo from the 70s, then I would have left it alone (as I have done with Sevilla Atlético. The only reason why I deleted all the non-unique reserve team logo is because it seems that the Castilla and Madrid C logos are always being deleted while the others are left alone eventhough I pointed this out to the second to last editor who claimed the others were in compliance! I really thing that this policy doesn't pertain to reserve teams because they belong to the entity as a whole! It's not like I have a fan page and used Madrid's logo as if it's an officially recognised as being part of the club. I have notice that the English, German, Dutch, etc, reserve teams do not seem to comply, but haven't been deleted. Like I said before, if Barça B is indeed in compliance, I want to see what was done so I can make Castilla likewise. Raul17 (talk) 00:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Gee, thanks!
Dude, thank you for making me look like a complete fool! I asked you to show me the Barça B WP:NFCC thingy, and you clammed up on a brother!! I had to go to an American football article to get an example!! Óye!! m(_ _)m Raul17 (talk) 21:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Flags on Tables
Hello, I see that the flags are being removed from tournament tables such as in the Argentina national football team article. Any reason why the same practice is not being as fiercely followed on other articles such as these? Germany national football team, France national football team, Mexico national football team, Spain national football team, England national football team? Thank you


 * I've read the MOS on flags, and realize that not all readers can view them. Still, I can't agree that the World Cup tables or the tables in general must remain as is without at least indicating where the tournament was held upon first glance, whether through icons or a written form. The Copa America table is a prime example of what I mean, over 40 championships with no indication of where it was held.

United States men's national soccer team
Hey, I wanted to discuss the massive reversions you've made to the USMNT article recently. I agree with you that the tables and brackets from the Confederations Cup and Gold Cup don't need to be copied into this article. There is, however, no reason to change the formating of the recent squad listing. We should list only those squad members who were named to the matchday squad, and we should sort them by number, just as we do on 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup squads for instance. Positions are flexible. Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey have both been listed as midfielders and forwards in the last year. We should only sort them based on squad number, which is unambiguous. Including only the players named to the matchday squad is also verifiable. There are a number of players who have been included in call-ups that were there just to make up the numbers until more players got there. One of the Chivas USA goalkeepers was used this way this year. His name escapes me, but these players are known about and the press often includes them in discussions of the squad. These players are not in contention for a squad place, however, and so we shouldn't include them in the article. I think that the only way to avoid this is to list them as we have for years. A final point about the recent schedule is the fact that when you hover over the links listed in the table, it shows what article is being linked. There is no need for a key, and we can link directly to more articles the way it was for months. I don't want to start an edit war, and I agree with some of the changes you have made. I don't see why we can't compromise on some of the formatting issues. 65.204.116.67 (talk) 23:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Since there has been consensus on the article talk page for literally years to include players called up in the last 6 months, it makes sense to include the match results from the last six months. Many of those matches will be removed in a month or two, as will the players who last played in those matches.  As for the current squad, we also have consensus on the talk page only to include players who were actually named to the matchday squad.  This is a verifiable list, and will not include anyone who was called in just to make up numbers.  As for the formatting, it seems much less disjointed to organize the team by squad number.  Again, this is verifiable, whereas Landon Donovan is listed sometimes as a forward, but plays as a midfielder, and vice versa.  If it is good enough for 2006 FIFA World Cup squads then it should be good enough for this article.  Thank you for discussing this, rather than edit warring.  65.204.116.67 (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

The "Barcelonic" wars
Hi there BOCAFAN, VASCO here,

Regarding this issue (i have also read the discussion you sent me), here is my humble approach: yes i am aware that BARCELONA B changed name in 2008, to ATLÉTIC, but here is the "problem" (if one can call it) - i think BARCELONA ATLÈTIC is too big for infobox, for info purposes it should be sufficient with CELTA B, BARCELONA B, REAL MADRID B, etc, etc, leaving the fullname to storyline.

The sock puppetry is really an issue. In the "old days", when i was convinced User:Picolotto was a vandal (not anymore, he's just a difficult editor to work with, and his little knowledge of English makes it even more difficult to agree - or not - on stuff), i saw he had more than 50 anon IP, and several accounts. Oh well...I will send him a message to let him know your views.

AGUANTE BOCA!, have a nice weekend, from Portugal,

VASCO - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 17:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I see your example my friend. In that case, my approach is to compress it to ESTUDIANTES LA PLATA (or ESTUDIANTES only, if there are no other clubs with that denomination in the world, i am not sure). Cheers, VASCO - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 18:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Jerk!
You beat me to requesting that jason fellow for administrator intervention! Haha. Daniel Musto (talk) 10:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey!
Hey man, I think the score times are wrong. Have you checked the site? It said that CRC scored first then US came from behind. Reply on my page.-- Microsoft 1000  Defender and Ruler of Cyberspace!  22:10, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Now I know! Thanks! By the way, since we're soccer fans and all, how about this truly weird football match? It was the 1994 Caribbean Cup. As you probably know, there was a group stage. In the last game of the group stage Barbados needed to beat Grenada by at least two goals for qualification for the knock-out stages. The tournament officials put in a golden goal, which meant if you scored in over-time, the goal was worth two, ending the game. So Barbados came off to a 2-0 lead in the 2nd half, but Grenada scored, putting the score as 2-1 in the waning minutes. Since Barbados couldn't score in that amount of time they scored on themselves, making trying to send it into overtime. But Grenada found out that they needed to score on either side to make it since Barbados wouldn't come anyway due to goal differential. But Barbados stopped their own goal and scored immediately in overtime. Watch it on YouTube: -- Microsoft 1000  Defender and Ruler of Cyberspace!  22:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Boca Juniors
¡Hola, Bocafan76! Gracias por tu mensaje. Me gustaría saber qué tenía de incorrecta mi contribución a la plantilla de Boca Juniors. Lo único que hice es ponerla con el mismo formato que tienen todas las demás plantillas de todos los demás equipos de fútbol del mundo en Wikipedia. No entiendo por qué las plantillas de los equipos argentinos tienen un formato diferente (las iniciales de los países junto a las banderas me parecen redundantes, ya que basta con poner el cursor sobre la bandera para ver de qué país se trata) y que, además, no permite modificaciones, por ejemplo, en cuanto a la actualización de los dorsales de los jugadores. Gracias por tu atención.Wislabe (talk) 16:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Bocafan76! Thank you for the information. I admit I'm not very familiar with the guidelines, but I love football and my only intention is to contribute truthful information, especially when I'm watching a game and I see that the info on Wikipedia doesn't match the reality I'm seeing, be it in terms of squad numbers or players belonging to a different club. I'm also a linguist and I'm interested in trying to keep the players' names' spelling as accurate as possible. Lastly, I only wrote in Spanish because I saw your native language is Spanish and so is mine, and the message was meant to be read by you alone, therefore I thought it was unnecessary for us to communicate in a different language. Once again, I wasn't familiar with the guidelines, I just tried to use logic. Sorry about that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wislabe (talk • contribs) 21:11, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Argentina's upcoming matches
I put the full calndario, what is the problem? --190.220.157.202 (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Because of the past and no future? --200.110.136.214 (talk) 13:56, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * FIFA is already in the calendar. If you did not understand it because I'm Argentine and I speak Spanish.--200.110.136.214 (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Although there is an element to which any discussion of the future is speculative (will I be at work tomorrow?: I might die in my sleep or be hospitalised in an accident on my way there), it should be noted that Argentina's matches against Germany, Canada and Israel, which you are deleting as speculative, are listed at FIFA.com. Kevin McE (talk) 00:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I note your comments on my talk page and can believe that FIFA.com might not always be accurate, but if anyone were to add that citation to the listing of such future matches, then at least the fact that they are scheduled is in a RS and should not be deleted. Kevin McE (talk) 07:34, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

IFFHS
"...removed statement since it is an opinion and not a fact, plus lacks any references to back this claim." Do I get this right: It is not an opinion if you give somebody that "one man show" tag without proving it (no matter whether it´s even true or false as long as some other guy quotes you in his Bird & Bee)... but it is an opinion if you humbly try to modify that statement? And no references: Where´s his references, then? Not much common sense in this, I´m afraid. SpVggLieth (talk) 17:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Reminder
Do you remember when Chivas de Guadalajara beat bocajuniors in the copa libertadores and the score. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Romero1 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

List of Real madrid players
Hiya, do you know what source is used for the list of real madrid players, I'm trying to get hold of references? Cheerio! Sandman888 (talk) 17:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Mauro Navas
Hi there BOCA, VASCO here,

I'll explain my action in this player's article, and why did i reinstate my work: if you see for instance in Mariano Pavone's article, there is a tag there that says that INTRO is too short, needing to be "filled in". What i have been trying to do from the moment i noticed that tactic at WP is summarize players' careers in that INTRO, to the best of my abilities.

Don't understand why did you say it made no sense. Maybe it was the grammar? After all, i am Portuguese, but what i meant to say is that, during Navas' career, he spent as much time in Argentina than in Spain.

To me, what really makes NO SENSE is the work of User:Zombie433: he continues to remove external links and place everything as references, people talk to him, he could not care less - he also erases messages on his talkpage sometimes the minute they arrive there! Just thought i could warn you about him, as he "contributed" to Navas' article too.

Saludos, from Portugal - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 01:16, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

IFFHS again
I have just seen your comments on my edition. I wrote: A look at the method in which the survey is carried out shows that it is completely unscientific and its results can never be taken seriously as anyone can vote for the same player hundreds of times This is not an "original research". The reader has got to understand on what basis the voting is done and it is only with this knowledge that he is able to consider how serious the "world's most popular football player award" is. For example, if the selection is by football journalists all over the world and each journalist is entitled to one vote then it has more significance than if it is by internautes and if there is no limit to the number of times one can vote for a particular footballer. For this reason I am putting the paragraph back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.207.55.191 (talk) 13:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Questions
ok thanks alot Mr. Bocafan76 for your correction,,, i have questions for you :how do i write a new article? and how do i add a picture to an article which is already existent? thanks again —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nada magdy (talk • contribs) 17:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Jakemendes' sockpuppetry
Thank you for this information. Since you believe him to be a sockpuppet, it would be appropriate for you to report Jakemendes to administrators via Twinkle or at Sockpuppet investigations Quinxorin (talk) 02:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * True. But the thing is, I'm not going to revoke it unless an admin does decide he is a sockpuppet.
 * -Quinxorin (talk) 22:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

"Double move"
Hi there BOCAFAN, VASCO here,

As you did (at least) in Luis Enrique Martínez García, please do not add two club names in a box (simultaneously that is), it's too big and somewhat inconsistent. That's when storyline comes in, please read CLUB CAREER's last paragraph, the club's change of name is very well explained there (i edit massively in this article, i remember it well it was me who wrote it).

Keep up the good work, cheers - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:24, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your quick reply man. Yes, i perfectly understand your approach. However, i feel that, for informative purposes only, the B suffix should be enough to tell people it's a reserve squad, full names (and explanations on possible name changes) should be in storyline. I also don't understand the situation with FC Barcelona, as tons of other players (i have edited massively on those so i know "my thing") have "SEVILLA B", "REAL MADRID B", "CELTA B", etc, to explain their attachment to the reserves, and no beef arises, it's solely with Barcelona, really fail to see why.

Regarding your request about User:Bruno P. Dori, yes i also understand why you do what you do, i will convey it to the other guy. Regards - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Opposite direction, same move: JAKEMENDES/BRUNINHO/BRUNO P. DORI asked me to convey this message (please don't kill the messenger man, i'm only translating :) )

He says he changed all the players back to BARCELONA ATLÉTIC because he felt (as i do) that having both names in box would be totally wrong. He adds he did not see he was not logged in - hence it was an anonymous edit by a "familiar face" - he says he definitely wants to play by the book now.

JAKE continues, saying that this "double club name in box name" move should have been discussed, it was not (please again, note i am only being the messenger, i am not aware whether the discussion was or not created), and it should be brought forth in future days.

Regarding the possible article on FC BARCELONA RESERVES AND ACADEMY, he says that FC Barcelona Atlètic can promote to the second division of Spain. So, if a possible article is to be created, it needs to be addressed to La Masia, but the BARCELONA B (or ATLÉTIC) article needs to exist independently, as it is a professional section.

Done! Now, speaking for myself: although i know you meant it in a positive way, you referred constantly to this user as "my friend". I am a friend of JAKE as i am yours and all well-intended users, i have ZERO patience for vandals and similar stuff. And yes, i have agreed with folks in the past this user has been highly disruptive in the past, albeit not a vandal. Regards from Portugal, man - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 23:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi again, BOCA. If you like, please leave a thought in this discussion i started (see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#.28FC.29_BARCELONA). Cheers - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Mexico National football Team
Thanks I didnt know how to fix it —Preceding unsigned comment added by FGaribay (talk • contribs) 21:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)