User talk:BoonDock/2015/January

Copyedit of 101 Air Supply Unit SAOSC

 * Hello! Buckshot06 suggested I contact you about this article. I've begun a copyedit but some of the language is obscure - probably translated directly from Africaans - and others parts 'feel' incomplete. Would you be interested in helping me to clarify, elucidate and clean up this article? You might like to check the changes (and guesses) I've already made from 'History' to the next editing template. Cheers! Shir-El   too  21:29, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, I've got that page watchlisted and I've been watching with interest your valiant attempts to reduce that thicket of prose to something resembling an encyclopedia article :-) I'll help out where I can. BoonDock (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated! What concerns me is that once the thicket has been thinned a little, there'll be no 'meat' left. Worse, no citations. Buckshot06 wrote that he sub-divided it from 44 Parachute Brigade (South Africa), so I appreciate your 'bird-dogging' my modest efforts. BTW There's no article on Active Citizen Force, though it seems to be a unique and important part of the whole; there are references to it in several articles. Could you fill the gap, please? Cheers! Shir-El   too  17:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Pleasure. Re Active Citizen Force. ACF is what it was called sometime around the WWs. Then it became known by other names including Citizen Force, Reserve Force, Conventional Reserve, Territorial Reserve etc. I agree it's a glaring hole that needs to be filled. BoonDock (talk) 20:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Try Active Citizen Force now? BoonDock (talk) 09:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Need more help. Proofing reveals incomplete links, seemingly different names for similar functions, and several omissions/assumptions. One example: did members of the unit parachute with their cargo? Or only pack-and-push? Did they actually drop cargoes into combat zones? Or land and off-load? (There's some interesting material here if we can whip it into shape!) I'm still working on this one, but please feel free to call me in for any mare's nests you come across. ;-). Cheers!  Shir-El   too  08:18, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You'll see I added the Air Supply qualification badges. Those do NOT mean jump qualification. Think of them more as "loadmasters".. Will try to get more info. BoonDock (talk) 08:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK: they didn't jump. Did they go up at all? Here's another one while you're at it: did AFC Moodie retain the same rank throughout his tenure? Yes, saw the badges. Nice. Thanks muchly. Shir-El   too  09:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. They went up. No re Moodie. Firstly, the rank naming changed. Secondly, he would have had to be promoted... BoonDock (talk) 09:47, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Army Badges
BoonDock (talk) 11:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Gentlemen, I want to create a page with all the List of badges of the South African Army (and maybe the other services). I am not sure on formatting etc, Could you advise me please? I also have images of most of these badges, but I'm nervous to upload and just have them all deleted... BoonDock (talk)
 * I have added images. BoonDock (talk) 09:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Nice work. Do you by any chance have photos of the SA Army WO and officer ranks that we can use? Gbawden (talk) 08:20, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * LOL. I was JUST looking at South African military ranks and thinking that. I see there has been all kinds of toing and froing about the images there. I have photos of all the green thatch rank badges and was just thinking about adding them to the list of badges page and considering whether they should be added to the rank page. Busy working on something else at the moment. I'll upload during the day. I'm concerned about the copyright though because they are photos that I have taken, so I'm happy about MY copyright, but the actual badges themselves... how does that work? Any idea? BoonDock (talk) 08:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I think photos of rank badges you have taken should be OK. Thanks for your help with this. Gbawden (talk) 11:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'll try it and see if there is a hassle. It's a pleasure. BoonDock (talk) 11:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you seen where I've added the Pilot's Wings on some of the Air Force chief's pages? I want to create a template to display all the badges similar to how I created Medal Display and move the badges I have in that template across. See below for an example that should be moved across and some others. I'll upload all the rank badges later. (Update: It's been moved to the template Badge Display
 * Examples
 * Carlo Gagiano
 * SANDF Qualification Pilots Wings 500-2500 hrs badge embossed.png Pilots Wings (2500+ hrs) badge
 * SANDF Qualification Pilots Wings 500-2500 hrs badge embossed.png Pilots Wings (2500+ hrs) badge
 * Just added Officer's ranks to the draft page. BoonDock (talk) 10:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I know this is a terribly old thread, but it's still topical. I discovered that there is a copyright template for anything that has been published by the SA Gvt for admin... blah blah blah purposes which puts it out of copyright. I used that template to upload (and use) various badges (including rank badges) which come out of an official publication. A lot of those are now used on List of badges of the South African Army which they weren't before (being removed for "non-free" use). BoonDock (talk) 21:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I will take a look - the description of admin can be limited to papers, articles, etc but let me have a look Gbawden (talk) 05:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

WP:SOLDIER
Hi. Have you looked at the requirements of WP:SOLDIER? Anyone below a Brigadier general is unlikely to qualify for a WP article. Gbawden (talk) 07:51, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Funny enough, I thought the notability would counter that...
 * If you want to create any pages for Army generals I am happy to help. I am busy working my way through a list of admirals Gbawden (talk) 13:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to do that and intend to. Sources are a problem though. BoonDock (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Telling me. I use the following that may be of use:


 * The naspers archive - http://m24arg02.naspers.com/
 * Dod.mil.za
 * scientaria.militaria.ac.za Gbawden (talk) 13:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those! BoonDock (talk) 13:57, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Extra Reference : BoonDock (talk) 14:19, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks - have seen that. Btw - do you know its a holiday? You should take day off :) g Gbawden (talk) 17:07, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * LOL. Yes.. This is relaxation.. BTW, created B F Armstrong and realised it should be named differently. Could you help me move it to the correct name please? BoonDock (talk) 17:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

HOW COME
YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS DO NOT APPEAR IN THE ARTICLE'S HISTORY PAGE??? Is there an invisible editor working on this article??? Text has been added and altered without a username!!! Shir-El  too  09:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That is very very strange. I have no idea why that is??? BoonDock (talk) 09:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Just checked the history now. I see my edits there.. ? BoonDock (talk) 09:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * See for yourself: on the history page your last edit is listed at 04:07, 30 December 2014‎. My first edit is listed from 17:27, 31 December 2014‎ and only my edits are listed after that - yet we both know you edited this page after I started working on it, and those edits should appear in the history! They don't! Any ideas? Shir-El   too  20:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ops
Template:Ops has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:38, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Military Academy
Hi. I managed to find most of the names and dates of the Commandants. I could use your help - I used the Rp template but not sure how to link it to a source. Gbawden (talk) 09:12, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. Just create the ref as usual, then add the RP template after the reference. It's not "linked" as such. Just indicates the page number from the reference. Means that you can have one reference (with no page numbers) and then have the page number indicated in the text for that reference. BoonDock (talk) 09:15, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Which reference did the names come from? BoonDock (talk) 09:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown
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Post Box

 * Please take a look at User:BoonDock/sandbox and let me know what you think!    Thanks  BoonDock (talk) 14:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Did this as an example: User:BoonDock/List of Senior Military Posts in South Africa BoonDock (talk) 16:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Commander Australian Fleet for example. Simplest may be a chart with name, name of post at time, date of appointment, end of appointment. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 05:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * MMM. I think I would prefer to stick to tables Gbawden (talk) 11:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. I think what I'll do is be bold and go ahead and make the changes that I was thinking of.. Specifically to use the template for lists of Commanding Officers on unit pages for example. Then take criticism as it comes. One of the reasons I'm keen to move to the template is that it makes it logical and easy to enter the data, without the extraneous formatting of tables etc... and yet it's possible to control the formatting of all the tables from a central point (the template) so that everywhere it's used the formatting is changed instantly. I also know that tables often get screwed up by inexperienced editors.. BoonDock (talk) 12:30, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Rolls of Honour

 * I hope my posts were helpful. If there's anything else I can do please don't hesitate to ask. See also re Post Box above. Buckshot06 (talk) 05:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Definately helpful. Thanks BoonDock (talk) 12:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

SA Army ORBAT 1940

 * I put this together User:BoonDock/SA Army ORBAT 1940 Thought you might be able to use it? BoonDock (talk) 13:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw it. Thank you for taking the data from that source and writing it up for wikipedia. Should you really wish to make me overjoyed however, do something similar for 1960 and 1980 - that would be *amazing*!! S'pose it's a matter of simply doing more digging. Cheers and very many thanks Buckshot06 (talk) 04:15, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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Andre Retief categories
Hi. I have noticed that one of your templates seems to be adding Andre Retief and Andries Putter to the Orders, Decorations and Medals category. Can you check why this is happening? Gbawden (talk) 10:44, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * WILCO BoonDock (talk) 10:45, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Cat was in the template rather than in the DOC sub-page. BoonDock (talk) 10:53, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

List of Badges
I have updated a lot of detail into List of badges of the South African Army. I still have a bunch more to do, which I will get to, but I have a question. What should I do about the "Dress" descriptions? Is a page List of South African Army Uniforms or something similar appropriate? ,, BoonDock (talk) 08:18, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Just check the similar arrangements for British, Canadian, US Armies etc, and follow them. Buckshot06 (talk) 09:14, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Good idea, thanks. Draft:South African Army Uniform BoonDock (talk) 09:47, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

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Images
Hi BD,

First off I know you've had a terrible experience regarding the image policy here on Wikipedia. I couldn't believe when those book covers were removed for instance, and completely agree that the mass deletion issue is complete utter rubbish. This is especially in regard to those involving Souff Effrika's older military establishment and institutions because they receive comparatively little attention from level heads but get singled out by idiots with political agendas. Or tagging machines like Stefan.

However, I'm hoping we can change this. You are of course a longterm SANDF veteran yourself, and a quick search of many sites reveals images credited to your name (John Dovey). Perhaps you could try uploading some images from your personal photo collection of your service? Wiki is usually much more lenient on photographs you've taken yourself of general people and places than specific publications/artifacts. Images of your border duty would in particular be appreciated, as we're pretty short on those and something like half of them I've had to upload myself.

If you're worried about being targeted again by some koptoe moron, we can work together on this. I am familiar with Commons policy, and won't take any bullshit from people trying to use flimsy loopholes or technicalities. I can ensure they are protected.

Thanks, --Katangais (talk) 09:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi . Thanks for this. If you check recent edits to a number of general's pages (for example Derrick Mgwebi, Themba Nkabinde, Luvuyo Nobanda, Lindile Yam and Willis Nkosi) you'll spot my images there that I took while I was in the DRC. Border pics are a little more problematic... I only have about 20 of my own, which actually came from someone else who took them. As you know the camera policy was a lot stricter then! :-) I have just over 10K photos I took in the DRC. Most VERY boring (Air recces etc) and also I have to be careful of Defence Int who will have a puppy if I post photos... but I will post a few more.. I have one of a Rooivalk which I love that I took which I've been planning on adding to the 16 Sqn page. Will get to that eventually. Also, I have posted a bunch of badge photos to the page I created List of badges of the South African Army. has been picking up trouble from "Stefan" too (see his talk page)... BoonDock (talk) 09:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * BTW, take a look at This photo: Ratel 90 armyrecognition South-Africa 008.jpg. I could have made a fuss about this, but chose not to. BoonDock (talk) 09:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Stefan is an example of what we call a drive by tagger, or tag bomber which is a violation of image policy. He has been reprimanded before due to his tagging fetish. However, I try not to be too hard on the man because I've also seen him come out worst in debates with others who are even more obsessive and paranoid about image copyright than he is...a frightening thought.


 * Nice of you to allow that Ratel pic to stay up in the interests of the Wiki. Not so nice of Alan to claim ownership!! When I arrived here about three years ago, it was arguably one of the most well-circulated photos of the SANDF we had.


 * Anyroad, couldn't help but notice that there are some pictures on Moby's transport site of Buffels in Angola naming you as the copyright holder. These have been occasionally linked to on other sites about the border war, which is why I imagined you'd have more photos of the ops area. If you are not in fact the owner, maybe you could put me into contact with them so I can request adding those here.


 * Something else you can help me out with - you remember those old armoured cars that used to be on display at Lohatla? I'm also looking for pictures of those as well. There were two noddys I think and a Panhard M3, maybe some others. Is this one of yours? If so, do you have any more? --Katangais (talk) 10:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes that's one of mine. I'll see if I can find the originals. I also have some I took at the School of Armour museum. Will post those too. BoonDock (talk) 10:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Italics for units
Hi BD, I understand what you're doing with these things, like 3 Field Squadron (SAEC), but it just means that I or somebody else has to come along afterwards and convert them into redlinks. Please use redlinks, not italics. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:44, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where you are talking about? BoonDock (talk) 04:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_African_Army_Engineer_Formation&diff=next&oldid=638758162 Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 05:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC) 05:04, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see it. In that diff (and some following) I added references etc. The 3 Fld was there already, and quite honestly I didn't spot it.. Will do what I can in the future. BoonDock (talk) 08:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)