User talk:Bordflieger

Unconstructive Edits
Respected published works along with primary sources in the public domain are clear to research if you are so inclined. Final warning - any more unsourced or unconstructive edits without verification and your account will be reported for vandalism. AlexMehtidis (talk) 05:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Dear AlexMethidis,
 * Thank you for contacting me, I will happily discuss this you. Researching this is exactly what I have done. And I have not found a shred of proof for your statements about the use of captured Arado Ar 196's by the Greek Air Force or by the Finnish Air Force except for the three on loan to the Finns by the Germans. Not a single photograph, not a single mention in a flight log, not a single mention in a war diary, not a single mention in a respected published work.
 * The evidence you provided on the Warthunder forum is suspect to put it mildly. The book you claim to show cannot be found anywhere; not on Worldcat, not in the British Library or the library of Congress. Please show me the copyright page and the title page of the book.
 * Then I checked the Finnish Archives for any mention in the war diaries of the Finnish units Tiedustelulentolaivue 12 and Tiedustelulentolaivue 14 (https://astia.narc.fi/uusiastia/digitarkastelu.html?id=2395600091 and https://astia.narc.fi/uusiastia/digitarkastelu.html?id=2395600542). Again no Arado Ar 196 mentioned at all.
 * If you like I can show you the German Air Force files for all exported aircraft to the Finns during the war: no Arado Ar 196 in there.
 * And the statements you made about the bomb load of four 100 kg bombs do not make engineering sense at all, with that load the aircraft would not be able to take off.
 * You constantly keep changing the source for the Greek Arado Ar 196. Again, it is not in this book and it was not in the books your mentioned before.
 * As regard to reporting me for vandalism, I don't think removing unsubstantiated claims counts as vandalism. I am looking forward to your reply.
 * Kind regards
 * Bordflieger Bordflieger (talk) 11:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have much to say in regards to your qualms, I am not the one who listed the sources - I merely re-entered them when transferring information from other reputable websites. "The evidence you provided on the Warthunder forum is suspect to put it mildly" I have no idea what this is in reference to, whether the documents I've seen were used for 'war thunder' is outside of my knowledge and irrelevant. "the Finnish Archives" is not something I am familiar with, I have heard of the National Archives and the War Archives, and don't know whether information is centralised between them. "with that load the aircraft would not be able to take off." This is blatantly not true, to begin with the aircraft was used for ferrying flights carrying 1 or 2 troops, which amount fully loaded to at least 200kg, along with the fact the pontoon fuel tanks when fully loaded would weigh 600kg (600 litres), so it is inexplicable to suggest that in some configuration the aircraft could not carry that weight.
 * "not a single mention in a flight log", it is my understanding that within those very primary sources there are a couple of flight logs, so this is clearly false. In regards to the 'Greek Air Force' (which doesn't exist by the way), it's hardly surprising there's not much evidence to be found... AEKKEA produced 30 native fighters for the Republican Spanish Air Force and not a single photo, blueprint or relevant document is known about to this day. This should tell you enough about the apparent state of Greek archives. Only concrete source I can find is that Aufklärungsgruppe 126 was apparently operating from Skaramangas at the time of the alleged capture. The notion that all wartime 'goings ons' are adequately documented and reported on is utter fiction, so much is permanently lost if it was ever written down in the first place, which you seem to be labouring under the assumption of. AlexMehtidis (talk) 09:10, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "The book you claim to show cannot be found anywhere", you can't have looked very hard, I found it for sale on two websites last time I looked, along with a contact page the author. Perhaps your investigative/research skills need to be called into question in regards to archival searching if you fail to find a book on the internet. AlexMehtidis (talk) 09:15, 27 December 2022 (UTC)