User talk:Bpt1729

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Happy editing! Blythwood (talk) 19:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

River Otter, length and other features
Hi, thanks for your edits to this article! I've been trying to add specialist sources to confirm information.

One of Wikipedia's policies that all information should be cited to a source. I've actually had more trouble getting a source on the length of the river than I expected. Archibald Sinclair wrote that the length of the river was 25 miles in 1843, matching your estimate, so I've cited it. But I've also found a paper by Eleanor Knott of the Devon Biodiversity Records Centre. She definitely seems to be a qualified expert who would have access to modern data, but her value is much bigger, 65.15km for the main river.

Any thoughts on the discrepancy, or the best sources to use? Wikipedia has a policy called WP:OR, meaning that information should come from published sources and accredited experts rather than own estimates, so I'm trying to make sure we have the best possible information. Blythwood (talk) 19:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your encouragement, much appreciated by this novice.
 * I've found an Environment Agency leaflet Enhancing the River Otter which quotes 44km. How can I send you the PDF? My estimate of 40km was calculated from eight straight line approximations, and is inevitably an under-estimate. I would happily settle for 44km.


 * The DBRC estimate of 65.15km is very strange. Wikipedia has a page on Sinuosity which is relevant It defines the sinuosity index [SI] of a river as channel length divided by downvalley length. For rivers, the conventional classes of sinuosity are
 * SI<1.05 almost straight
 * 1.05<SI<1.25 winding
 * 1.25<SI<1.50 twisty
 * 1.50<SI meandering


 * The downvalley length of a river is the straight line distance from source to mouth. For the Otter, this is 36.3km based on the grid references (source ST225152, mouth SY077820) and solving the triangle.


 * Using DBRC's channel length of 65.15km, the SI of the Otter would be 65.15/36.3 = 1.8, well into the meandering category. A glance at the map shows that this is not the case. There are no great loops or oxbow lakes. Instead the river follows a winding but purposeful route to the sea.


 * Using the Environment Agency figure, the SI of the Otter would be 44/36.3 = 1.2, which falls in the "winding" category, and corresponds to the map.

Bpt1729 (talk) 11:35, 2 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Here is a link to the Environment Agency leaflet "Enhancing the River Otter". Page 3 quotes the length of the River Otter as 44km. Bpt1729 (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , this is wonderful, thanks for finding that. I've cited it in the article. I was a bit perplexed by Knott's estimate as well. Unfortunately most of the article was written a long time ago, when standards of sourcing were lower I think. If you find any other good sources like that citing them would be so good. Blythwood (talk) 19:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)