User talk:Brian0918/Translations


 * User_talk:Wikipedius


 * http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar
 * http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/BOOK_SEARCH.html?book=t66a&subject=s16
 * http://www.wordreference.com/

Vita di Girolamo Maggi d'Anghiari
Promis, Carlo. "". Miscellanea di storia italiana. Vol 1. p 105-143. 1862.

VodkaJazz

 * This man (1) of excellent ingenuity (2), of whom was also admirable the wide knowledge and multi-faceted meticulosity (3), {pause/and} for whom one commiserates his perpetual ill fate ended horridly (4), is born, indeed, not (!) in Anghiera on Lake Maggiore, as asserted in the De Thou (5) and by others who treat as one Anglarium and Angleria (6), nor (7) in Brescia or in Milan or in Bologna, as given by ill-informed writers, but (indeed) in Anghiari, a suburb of Tuscany (8), between Città S. Sepolcro and Arezzo, of which he himself renders (completely) open testimony to in all the titles, and many parts, of his works.

Notes:

(1) "Codesto" is a midway between "this" and "that" (as to proximity). Being applied to a human subject of a biography, it is supposedly just a sophisticated way of refering to the person.

(2) Can also mean "intelligence", "creativity" and similar adjectives.

(3) Actually the word used is the noun equivalent of "the being hardworking/busy". I think the word I used should give the right impression. In substance, this guy liked to do a lot of stuff, all the time - a busy bee.

(4) The text translates to "very sadly", so maybe "dismally" would be the most correct translation, but from the tone of the sentence the meaning of the word could be changed slightly to refer to an even worse tragedy. You should decide between the two by referring to any part covering the person's death -- was it a sad death or a tragic (painful?) death?

(5) Possibly a famous source book?

(6) i.e. The De Thou et al. give Anghiera as the birthplace on the wrong assumption that the two Latin words refer to the same place.

(7) As in "even more improbable".

(8) This needs verification of what Anghiari actually is in relation to Tuscany, as the text wording can have an alternate meaning of "(in the) district of Tuscany" (like when one says "Tampa, Florida") as opposed to "(which is) a suburb [which may be too exact since it could also simply mean 'village', 'town' or similar as in -burg used in Germany, Russia, etc.] of Tuscany" as I assumed for the translation.

└ VodkaJazz/talk┐ 20:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Bill Thayer
Of his childhood and his first youth we know rather little, since neither he nor anyone who writes about him cared to recount or research it: his parents were Paolo and Luisa (1), who very quickly left him an orphan; that he was born in 1534 is a serious blunder by Buratti, who, possessed of very slight information, wished to write a panegyric of him (2); but since there is nothing certain, I am inclined to think that he saw the light of day around 1523 or not much later, since from his own lips we learn how in infancy he was attacked by the same pestilence that he, writing in 1563, states was the last one (1), and it must be the very severe one of the year 1527 unless maybe it was that of the following year or of three years later. --Bill 12:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Maltesedog (it.wp bar instead)
As a young man he studied rhetoric with Pierantonio Ghezzi from Laterina, a master of Latin, I do not know whether in his homeland or elsewhere. Afterwards, to proceed with the then popular studies, he went at first to the nearby University of Perugia, then to that of Pisa, and finally to that of Bologna. In Pisa he attended the lectures of the famous professor in Latin and Greek language/eloquence? Francesco Robertello, who taught there from 1543 to 1549. Anyway, Maggi, who beyond his native Tuscan, had mastered Latin and was erudite in Greek and Hebrew, and also in Spanish, availing himself of such endowments, he applied himself to jurisprudence, more to inquire into its spirit than for its profession: at first he studied the method of Alciato, then that of Bartolo and the school of the XIV and XV century.

Lacatosias
Seducted by the love of ancient things, he quickly gave himself over to the study of epigraphy and architectonics: for this reason he collected a veritable treasure of ancient tombstones, among which he cites those of Como, Ravenna, Rieti, Foligno, Perugia and Rome (4). In Pisa, where he was still engaged in formal studies, and in other Italian cities he saw and examined sepulchres and sarchopagi, and he used the knowldege gained in this way to combat a popular legend which was universal at that time and has only recently been refuted by modern scholars: the idea of the existence of giants in ancient days. All of this work formed the bases for his tractatus on sepulchres. He worked with equal, if not more, diligence on the task of providing the correct interpretation of ancient works of Roman jurisprudence and, for his successful explanation of a section of the Pandette, as he himself tells the story, he was embraced and kissed by Robertello. In Pisa, he obtained his doctoral degree probably during the year 546, and he himself affirms that he returned to his native land two years later. I maintain that this trip actually took place in 1548 because it was in that year that he was sent by his compatriates to visit Duke Cosimo.

Here's the best I can come up with without knowing the context and modernizing a little bit (the language seems to be an oddly archaic form of Italian).--Lacatosias 09:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Vizcarra (and Bogdan)
The scope of his trip was Venice, the city where the Italian talent lived more quietly and profitted the most from their studies, a cause for the vast commerce fomented from the caution of the government and saw again the Robortello and became friends with the famous Pietro Aretino, who was in private hated by all, he was also, in public, flattered, paid, exalted by all while the clever, knowning of what and how many things human vile is capable of, the old saying was fulfilled, the world is of who steals it.

--Vizcarra 05:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of his travel was Venice, the city where in those times, the greatest Italian minds lived more quietly and obtained from their studies a lot of profit, due to the vast commerce of books fueled by the carefulness of the government; there he reviewed the Robortello and obtained friendship witht he famous Pietro Aretino; which was hated and dispised in private by all, but also by all he was adulated, paid, exaltated in public, while the sly, knowning which and how many things can the human evilness do, the ancient saying, became true, becoming the world which took him. [ie: he became what people said about him]

--Bogdan

Pippu d'angelo
I'm on to it - almost done - but there are a couple of archaic expressions in there that are testing me - in fact it sounds a bit freaky - is it meant to be? ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  06:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've asked on the it.wiki bar that someone quickly check my translation - shouldn't be too long. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  12:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * ok, here goes - ditto to all the comments below!
 * The wretched Maggi, who in this most vilest of centuries had nothing to give/donate and needed everything and everybody, perhaps thought (was aiming) to find a protector, perhaps thought (was aiming) to escape the vicious pen of the gossip mongers, when he sang:
 * < The very clear three times divine man > or < Man is clearly three times divine > (??)
 * The famous immortal Pietro Aretino
 * from your quote, I wasn't sure whether you were quoting this Pietro Aretino, or whether he is in fact the man three times divine - so adjust translation to suit (sorry). Also, very clear, could in fact really be very famous - I'm sorry, it doesn't make that much sense out of context, hopefully it does to you! ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  12:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Someone in the it.wiki bar left this possible translation, which provides a slightly different twist, and putting theme all together, you might be able to make more sense of it all:
 * The wretched Maggi, who, in the vilest of centuries, had got nothing to give and was in deep need of everything and everybody, possibly hoped to shelter under his protection, possibly tried to avoid the dreaded pen of the foulmouthed Aretino, when he sang:
 *  

Wikipedius
''And made happy by those sweet words, which would have angered any other man, he took upon himself to address the poem over the Flanders War to Chiapino Vitelli, the well-known Spanish mercenary general, by writing to him in Febraury 1551. In that occasion, he spoke about that learned youth whom he held to possess such great skills as promised immortal fame; and thus he wrote to Maggi himself in November 1554 in the silliest and most sycophantic of manners (2).''

Good luck! --Wikipedius 15:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

P.S. That attempted (roughly) to reproduce the "spirit" of the original. But you might also put it this way:

''As he rejoiced at these kind words which would have made anyone else angry, he undertook to address the poem over the Flanders War to Chiapino Vitelli, the famous Spanish mercenary general by writing to him in February 1551. On that occasion he mentioned that learned youth whom he cosidered to possess such genius as to warrant him eternal fame. He repeated those words to Maggi himself in November 1554 in the silliest and most psychophantic way.''

Kubura
Those five first songs in truth are not such, to make us wish that they are followed from others little or many ("altri pochi o molti"???): I'll say even that, that if to something young ("qualchecosa giovano"??, not "qualcuno giovane"?? - somebody young), (this part sounds strange) them is exactly to convince us that "il Maggi" wasn't the poet.

What did the author want to say? I don't have the idea. --Kubura 12:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

"These first 5 'canti' actually don't let us hope for other ones to follow: i'd rather tell, indeed, that if they mey be worth anything, they might convince us that Maggi wasn't a poet." -Sn_txt

Nicapicella (not translated)
Where did you get this from? It's pretty old italian — I'm having trouble even comprehending what exactly is meant in italian. :-/ I'd need quite some time (and a decent vocabulary) to do some serious translating; right now, I don't have neither. Anyway, they are talking about the famous and migthy family Vitelli from Città di Castello, and then goes on talking to great lengths about why they were famous and mighty and what disgraceful things they have done and how they have come to be known. Hope that helps; sorry I cannot do more right now! :-( -NicApicella 14:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Aldux
OK. Here comes:
 * They [Chiapino's family, I think] had much land around Anghiari, in territory only a few miles from their [Maggi's relatives, I think, or his friends] residence, so Maggi, a Tuscan, tried to obtain through the favour of Chiapino, the greatest man of his stock and a soldier of Cosimo, a good entrance at the court in Florence; so to him the young poet asked help, flattering him and also Giovanni dalle Bande Nere and his daring son, whose rising to the throne of Florence had well represented that goal, that Maggi in good and bad luck had never ceased to kep in mind. In five canti Maggi (true poet of the 16th century) often complains about his sad fate, showing himself unhappy of the legal profession exercised by him out of neccesity.

Hope this helps. I must admit I've had more difficulties than I would have suspected with the text, but the sense should be this. Bye :-) Aldux 12:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

TheFEARgod
See it:Wikipedia:Bar

Salvo46 or Gala.martin
Since the text was composed by very long sentences, and since I am not a good translator, the English below sounds really bad. Feel free to improve it and ask me wherever it is unclear. gala.martin ( what? ) 18:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyway, we see that he never got nothing from Chiapino, to whom, in the Epistle dedicatory (dated December 10th 1550, in Anghiari), he communicated his early departure from his native land. I add that it seems that the author himself did never cite this work later on; but he was used to quote often his works, and still he did never cite this one. Anyway, in the dedication of Fortificazione al Re di Spagna (Fortification to the King of Spain), since the circostance was suitable (and it seems he was sorry about that), he says that he wrote these lyrics when he was young; and he said young because, when in 1543 the war (that is the content of the work) between the GhelAria and Cleves Dukes broke out, he was 23 or younger.

Clarification: "First of all that kind of italian is not easy for italians too (very archaic) ;)... On page 112 the book says that Vitelli was informed about Maggi in February 1551, then the page 113 tells that Maggi wrote in his poem to Vitelli about the will to leave Anghiari in December 1550. The two things could not be mutually contradictory. But I can't guarantee it... --Lucas 07:41, 19 mar 2006 (CET)"

Attilios

 * However, in spite of the will to move to a more comfortable seat, I don't think that he was coming to set off from his native burg; in those years, indeed, Cosimo availed ["used"] of his military talents to the Anghiari safeguard, of which Maggi, at the head of some others, was charged to provide the defense ans engineer; as he considered it was commanded by the nearby hills, and that time was getting short, he thought to provide selected parts with trench cross-bars: that defense, although not able to secure the earth ["earth" in the meaning of "territory", I think] from the enemy artillery, made however difficult to conquer it with a bold attack. This happened when, in 1552, the French Army neared to Val di Chiana: in that year Cosimo used for his fortifications all the artificers [meaning "engineers", but probably also manpower] he had in his State. In this year also, and probably during his sojourn in Anghiari, he wrote that pamphlet [or broadsheet, leaflet, brochure? I don't know what we are referring to, sorry: "opuscolo" in Italian is a very short book. Choose the right word by yours] against Bartolo, that I enclose at the end of his bibliography; and he was already coming to give it to print, although he later stopped: he also attended to the very erudite books of "Miscellanee".

Wow! The excerpt is far difficult to understand even for me. It is very archaic. I'll try to offer you a translation that you must rewrite in better English.

Notes within the "[ ]" are mine. Hope this is useful. My English is not so good, and the original piece itself was rather obscure. Let me know, and good work by Attilios.

Bogdan
A little after he returned to Bologna, in which he stayed part of the year 1553, he lectured and tutored Giulio Vitelli, son of a certain Alessandro, to which the Medici were almost indebted for the throne, to Sebastiano Regoli who professed Latin litterature, and to three legal advisers Arietini. From there, he went to Ferrara where he frequented Cinzio Giambattista Giraldi, a very knowledgeable man, where he saw a anepigraphical Greek codex about war machines, taken from Maggi given to the real author, Heron, already knownledgeable with Sebastiano Corradi and Giannandrea Sartori, another he had seen in the bookstore of S. Salvatore in Bologna. Giraldi presented him to Duke Ercole II, to which he offfered that part of the treaty of engineering military art, which he already written with the title Della espugnazione delle città; He received from the Duke a golden necklace and this was the first fruit of his works (literally vigils).

Returning to his town/country in the same year or in 1554, he became again a lawyer, in the same time he had well-educated disputes of case law with a friend, Anglieri, judge of the troops of Marquese of Marignano at the camp of Siena. Like this, between studies, the clients and the taking care of the family, of Lisabetta di Francesco Maggi, his blood relative, which he married, he lived in Anghiari since the protection of the Vitelli House brought him both bread and honour, by making him to be a judge of Amatrice, land of Abbruzzo, with which Carlo V had awarded the chosen services of Alessandro Vitelli.

Carlo.Ierna
I have compelling reasons to believe that in the year 1560, or the next, he went to Venice, in which city he became a print corrector. This is reported by Sweert, who wasn't so distant in time from then, and then repeated by Bayle, though without supplying any proof. However, his frequent visits to the shop of the bookseller and printer Ziletti, the beatiful, correct and numerous editions that originated there, the many learned men that performed such work, for the good fortune of the writers, and among which shines the example of Paolo Manuzio, the inopia of Maggi, are all reasons that, even if they do not provide us with certainty, the do make it quite probable. It is certain, that notwithstanding his proteiform intellect and his tireless work, he did not have great success at firsts in Venice, as in the summer of 1562 he was negotiating about going to Maximilian, king of Bavaria, when due to the request of a certain Cadamost and a Cornelius of Bergamo he was convinced to stay for some time and shortly after found a mecenas in the senator Giovanni Donato. Acgemento ("I will add"? or is it a typo for "Argomento": Reason?) that in those days he hardly did any work for Ziletti, seeing that the two works from him, after the poem, printed up to then, are due to the presses of Enrico Petri of Basel, as he did not begin to print for Ziletti before 1563.

Redux
Then, the fame that he had achieved for his work or prints, readily available to the press, the protection of Donato, the either close or renewed friendship with several prominent men, amidst which the knowledgeable German typographer Arnoldo Arlenio, Girolamo Ruscelli, Jacopo Menochio, with others of less importance and with countrymen Andrea Badoaro and Antonio Giustiniano paved the way for a more comfortable life and higher hopes. Encouraged by Sigonio to make public his Miscellany, he did so, dedicating it to the Polish ambassador, whom he went to see in Padova, in October of 1563: in the same year, he presented his protector, Giovanni Donato, with the libri de Fato, by Brescian Giulio Sirenio: in 1564 he published Trattato della Fortificazione (Treaty on Fortification), addressing it to the King of Spain.

Traduzione 3
Hi Brian - got the messages - it looks pretty good, the only small grammatical change I would propose is that "Do not aid" (sorry I'm going from memory) probably has to be "Does not aid" since the subject is singular (the harsh poverty, or whatever preceded it). Could also consider stand alone verbs like "disadvantages", (or "limits", "diminishes" ...) Otherwise I think they have done a terrific job. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  06:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Although, if read with the opening part, together that could be taken as a plural I suppose...ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  10:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * than again maybe not... this now a matter of extreme fine tuning, but may wish to consider:
 * Though this young man by Ulpian, Bartolo and Baldo
 * Be oft distracted...
 * simply to fit in with the period... ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  10:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)