User talk:Bring back Daz Sampson

Women's Football / Soccer Task Force News: July 2019
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Good luck
 豊かな十年へようこそ/WELCOME TO THE D20s Miraclepine wishes you a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, and a prosperous decade of change and fortune. このミラPはBring back Daz Sampsonたちのメリークリスマスも新年も変革と幸運の豊かな十年をおめでとうございます！ フレフレ、みんなの未来！/GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FUTURE! ミラP 02:57, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Janina Minge


The article Janina Minge has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "fails WP:NFOOTY"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mightytotems (talk) 11:13, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Janina Minge for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Janina Minge is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Janina Minge until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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A kitten for you!
Looking back through the history of the Graham Linehan page in an attempt to figure out where and when it went so wrong, I see that you tried last year to stop the mess. Have a kitten to say 'thanks for all your efforts'. It is a task that I have since learned is slightly more difficult than nailing Jell-o to a tree in a hurricane.

Lilipo25 (talk) 09:53, 9 May 2020 (UTC) 

Request for Comments on Linehan Page
Sorry, I tried to ping you from the Graham Linehan Talk page to notify you that there is an RFC on the heading "Anti-transgender activism", but the ping won't go through to your account for some reason? This is because you were involved in the debate on the ANI last month and have edited the Linehan page on this topic before. Lilipo25 (talk) 15:39, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Do you know how to request to add a player
Hi,

Just wondered if you know how to add a player to Fulham LFC? JBowry (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

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History of Doncaster Belles
Hi BBDS, just as a general idea, have you thought about starting an article for the club's history? Plenty of clubs have that, and Belles are as notable and worthy of it as any club in England, I'd think... As a accompaniment for the season articles, of course, not a replacement. (This is separate from the deletion issue, which is obviously nonsense, really sorry it's happening.)

The source information from those pages is still appearing on the mirror site EverybodyWiki, for the seasons 2011, 2012, and 2013, if you need it. - Demokra (talk) 00:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks it's an interesting idea - and I like to think I'd be capable - but at the moment I'd have to deem it not worth the effort. Given that there is still something of a toxic environment for women's soccer articles, the risk of deletion would be too high. As you can see with the recent industrial-scale AfDing of women's soccer articles, deletion is pretty much a fait accompli irrespective of whether or not WP:GNG is met. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 10:18, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I really like your work on historical women's soccer articles though and would definitely be interested in collaborating on those in future. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 10:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Women's Football / Soccer Update > October 2020
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Discussion at WP:ANI
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jay eyem (talk) 15:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Potential collaboration
Hey, do you have any interest in collaborating on expanding Nikita Parris article to good article quality or nom? I've been working on expanding - there's still a ton to add. No biggie, if not - just wanted to check as I think you have more expertise in England and Europe. Hmlarson (talk) 19:20, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Yes of course, I'll see what I can do. That's if I survive the latest lame attempt to get me on the cucking stool (lol)! Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 08:35, 24 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Awesome. Yeah, I’m not sure how any of that is disruptive — but dragging editors to ANI sure is, and they know that.


 * I worked on expanding her club career and early life yesterday. I havent gotten to Lyon or International — and I’m sure I missed Champions League. Thank you for any contributions. Hmlarson (talk) 15:06, 24 October 2020 (UTC)


 * There’s also a controversy?? section about Eniola with apology. Sorry, this mobile reply formatting is bleh. Are there any players in WSL you think would be to expand like this?Hmlarson (talk) 15:13, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I've recently being doing some work on Irish players and expanded Denise O'Sullivan a couple of weeks ago. I think there's plenty more out there to get it up to GA level (she has been doing quite well in the US I think). Possibly for Katie McCabe too. The Vivianne Miedema article looks in quite good shape already, that might be another GA candidate? Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 10:16, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Cool. I expanded some of O'Sullivans NWSL section, added some photos, quote, and other fixins. I'll see about expanding her W-League sections later this week. She is a hidden gem.
 * Beware of warthog.jpg Hmlarson (talk)


 * Great job with these - I see that you and have already knocked the Miedema article into shape. I take my hat off to you both! I will hopefully have a bit more time at the weekend to lend a hand with the others. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 18:47, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

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Proposed deletions of footballers
Joe Wilson (footballer, born 1861) and Tom Pearson (footballer) are clearly notable, both having played in a top level professional league. See point 2 of WP:NFOOTY, "Players who have played, and managers who have managed, in a competitive game between two teams from fully professional leagues will generally be regarded as notable." I have therefore removed the notices from both. Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 14:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I need to think about this. Certainly if those players are considered "not notable" but someone who plays 5 minutes in League Two is "notable" then something has gone wrong. --Jameboy (talk) 14:36, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Can you slow it down a bit?
The Norwegian first tier is a WP:FPL league, why do you nominate so many players with several (more than a handful) games there? And in such quick succession? Geschichte (talk) 15:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Knut Hallvard Eikrem et al
If you find any more pre-2001 Norwegian players that I created back in the day that you want to delete then please just let me know - most of them (like Knut Hallvard Eikrem) I won't challenge and you can simply PROD and wait 7 days rather than going through a full AFD. GiantSnowman 17:59, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks but some other editors seem to want to dispute them so I suppose it's only fair they get the chance. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 18:03, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

FPL
I'm disappointed that you're tying to apply 21st century guidelines to 19th century footballers who clearly meet other guidelines for inclusion. What difference would it have made if I had come to you directly? I'm well aware of your efforts to collate FPL evidence and a fine body of work it is, from your point of view. So why shouldn't you continue it. But I know full well pretty soon I'm going to have to justify most if not all of the biography articles I have spent many hours creating over the past few years, not on an individual basis but on the matter of whether the league they played hundreds of times meets the criteria not for standard of play but remuneration. And really it's only you that's pushing it to this extent. I have no issue with you personally of course and I respect the diligence with which you are pursuing the project, but unfortunately it seems likely to come into direct conflict with my main area of interest, and to be frank I don't believe the Scottish League pre WWI and maybe even pre WWII will meet FPL so then the hundreds of SPL appearances count for nothing and I will have to satisfy GNG, which I obviously try my best to do in any case but it's not easy to find info for these players despite their obvious prominence in their day, and they're all non-internationals since there was a drive to add feeble one-line stubs for every Scottish cap a short time before I began editing here. I feel that there will be other editors who are in the same position as me but haven't had the time to look at how the FPL discussion is developing, and would like to be made aware of this impending challenge to their created content (although in some cases I've observed the articles don't really deserve to stay for anything other than FPL reasons, and others could pass but have been neglected for many years so could probably do with an upgrade to meet the GNG standard etc - but I really don't feel those ones today fall into that group so I believe you're testing the water with these pre-professionalism articles because it's the easiest era to demonstrate non-FPL in England, although there will be better candidates for the chop. And I've seen enough of your comments to know your position on existing articles that currently sail past FPL but are weaker elsewhere ("Yes I suppose it would. Hey, I don't make the rules!", "My facts don't care about your feelings!", etc) and you're fully within your rights to pursue it as per the current guideline. So from my point of view it would be easier if the guideline were amended in some way. Maybe that's not realistic. I'm also aware that there is an element of jousting with GS, and I've seen enough of his sweeping statements in the opposite side of the debate both in the FPL talk and in reply to my post, eg "NFOOTBALL has not changed to throw any doubt on the notability of playing in the Football League, let alone 138 appearances" to see that there's no substance and I have every reason to worry - clearly your work does throw doubt on these leagues, if not changed yet. Going straight to Footy maybe wasn't the best way to start off with this but I do feel it might well become a major issue affecting many articles and many editors, and to be honest there will be some who think the same as me but are better at arguing the point than I am. I don't want it to be a AvB conflict, particularly if you are in the minority, but I know fine well that you are unlikely to change your mind (or have it changed) and have all your evidence well prepared already. Crowsus (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I am also bothered by the amount of nominations to AfD, it feels like you are waging a systematic war to destroy Norwegian footballer articles. Govvy (talk) 11:21, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Ignace Goris for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ignace Goris is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ignace Goris until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Navigation boxes
Hi Daz, I've posted some ideas for three of the navboxes - please reply here if you want to.

Category talk:England women's football navigational boxes

Thanks, Demokra (talk) 23:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Northern Ireland work
Hmlarson (talk) 16:29, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks – I love it – it gave me a good laugh! Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ;-D ;-D ;-D Hmlarson (talk) 17:19, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

List of top-division football clubs in UEFA countries
I just discovered there are no women on this list/article and no separate-and-buried women's list/article. Any interest in collaborating? Hmlarson (talk) 20:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, looks like a big job though! Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 21:04, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'll get it started with a few and editors can build from there. Hmlarson (talk) 21:30, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Thoughts on sentence?
What do you make of this sentence from featured list List of English football champions (first sentence in third paragraph of the lede/lead):


 * Representing the first fully professional football competition in the world the league saw its early years dominated by teams from the North and Midlands, where professionalism was embraced more readily than in the South of England.

It's referenced by a book: Goldblatt, David (2007). The Ball is Round: A Global History of Football. London: Penguin. p. 58. ISBN 978-0-14-101582-8.

However, the sentence doesn't quite add up to accuracy IMO. How can this be the first fully professional competition in the world if not all clubs were paying the Scotch Professors?

Hmlarson (talk) 22:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Well I suppose it might have been the first "fully professional" league, but not until ~1960! Although The Ball is Round is a good book I agree that sentence in isolation is quite misleading here. It could inadvertently give the false impression that the Football League was "fully professional" in the time of the Scotch Professors, when very obviously it wasn't. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 22:48, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Women in Europe contest now with centenarians
Hi there, PamDBring back Daz Sampson, and thanks for participating in the contest. You might be interested in covering one or more of the centenarians in 's detailed redlist. We have decided to target them for the remainder of the contest as all but one are from Europe. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 12:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

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looking for info
Greetings Bring back Daz Sampson, I stumbled upon your sandbox page via the Women's football open tasks page, where I noticed in the Netherlands 1988 section, you had filled in club info for a number of players. Could you tell me where you got that info from? I originally started this list and I'm wondering if your source could help me fill in missing info? By the way, I've seen your username several times before and I think your doing excellent work, so kudo's to you! --Dutchy45 (talk) 08:02, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Dutchy45 - and thanks very much. I'm afraid I can't remember exactly as I did it ages ago, however I have got a programme from the Ireland v Netherlands 1989 European Competition for Women's Football qualifying fixture on 29.11.87 where the Dutch squad is given as follows:

Marjoke de Bakker - KFC Loes Camper - RKTVC Lies Kols - RKTVC Hesterine de Reus - Rijsoord Tjitshe Schuil - Nicator Bep Timmer - RKTVC Ria Vestjens - Braakhuizen (Captain) Danielle de Winter - DSVP Jacky Boogerd - RVW Els van den Hoek - Haastrecht Vera Pauw - Vreeswijk Anja van Rooijen - KFC Janny Timisela - RKTVC Marjan Veldhuizen - RKTVC Sarina Weigman - KFC Lianda de Vos - DIVO


 * I seem to remember there was a big bust-up on the eve of the 1988 'World Cup' - Bep Timmer was dropped by the unpopular coach Pier Buter. Timmer retorted that Buter "hadn't eaten the cheese of organisation" (? - I'm hoping this might make more sense to you) and other players including Pauw and de Reus quit in solidarity. Well done on your list - good luck with your researches and if I find out anything else of interest I'll be in touch. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 22:45, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The cheese quote does make sense to me :) Thanks for the info. Dutchy45 (talk) 08:55, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Bianca Baptiste
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Thanks for the improved Catarina Gjellan article
Carina Håkansson, Pia Syrén, Anette Nicklasson, Christin Lilja, Åsa Persson (footballer) and Marina Persson could do with some help also, since you seem to find better sources than I can. Dwanyewest (talk) 13:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) It's kinda annoying they've all been AfD'd together because I don't think we'll get time to search for sources and improve all of them before the clock runs out. Although even if they do get deleted this time I'm sure plenty of them will come back in future. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

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WP:Male is not the default
I wonder what you think of WP:Male is not the default for cases where we have Wikipedia articles about "Team X" for the men's team and "Team X (women)" for the corresponding women's team? I see you have proposed some WP:RMTR renamings like that. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello - yes, I think positively of WP:Male is not the default and try to uphold it when editing women's soccer articles. But it's a balance – you can see from a requested move I did recently that consensus is apparently not quite ready for this sort of equality in article naming, even when there's a clear WP:OFFICIALNAME. In fact, one of the three responses to that RM was overtly sexist. Sadly, in my experience this backward attitude is still prevalent on here. You still see things like infobox logos being deleted from women's team's articles, on the grounds that they are "child entities" of the male teams! In the case of Shamrock Rovers, though, the men's team has been going since 1899 and the women's team was only (re)founded a few weeks ago. So yes I can understand why colleagues would argue the men are the "primary topic". Personally I'd be more than happy to follow WP:Male is not the default and disambiguate both. But, realistically, that ain't gonna happen any time soon. In the meantime I proposed the compromise Shamrock Rovers F.C. (women) as better than Shamrock Rovers Ladies F.C. since the fashion in recent years has been to move away from the outmoded "ladies" nomenclature (Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool, Celtic, Rangers, Shelbourne etc. etc.) and we can see that Rovers have followed that template with this latest reboot of their women's team. The Galway one is a slightly different situation where the independent women's team pulled out of the League and effectively disbanded, while trying to shame a somewhat reluctant Galway United into coming in and taking over. As that has now happened I just wanted to rename the article on that basis. I don't mind taking them off to WP:RM but ironically I think they got a lot more scrutiny at WP:RMTR than they will at WP:RM – lesson learned for next time I suppose. Thanks, Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 12:09, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

1972 Scotland v England women's football match article
Do you think that Draft:1972 Scotland v England women's football match should be made a full wikipedia article? Dwanyewest (talk) 02:50, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, definitely. I hoped to do a bit more work on it first, but I haven't really had time yet. If you think it's ready then go for it :) Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 17:15, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

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Picture of Alessia Russo
I have been trying to find a picture of Alessia Russo as it is a shame that her article doesn't have a picture. I just searched on "Manchester United women" on Wikimedia Commons, and saw that you have taken several of the pictures. Do you know if there are any pictures of her, even just a team photo that includes Russo? Rogalendingen (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry for the delayed response. I'm afraid I just uploaded them from flickr - the photographer is the very talented James Boyes. He works around Lewes Lewes F.C. Women, so unfortunately I think his Man Utd pictures are from when they were in the Championship so before Russo joined. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 11:29, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah okey, that's good to know. Thank you! Rogalendingen (talk) 14:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

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