User talk:Brmanjunath

My name is Bettadapura R Manjunath. I am new to writing anything in Wikipedia. I am interested in ITRANS as I do lot of transliteration related to Indian classical music, in particular "south Indian Classical Music which goes by the name "karnatac Music or Carnatic Music". I find that ITRANS is not adequate and has some deficiecies specially related to transliteration of south Indian languages. I have an improved version which I call "ITRANS-2" mentioned below. I am not sure whether to call it a major edit of ITRANS or a separate article. I need help and some guidance.

''ITRANS-2-An improved version of ITRANS Itrans - a transliteration scheme devised for transliterating Indian languages to English which is currently in vogue is mainly a transliteration scheme for languages with the devanagiri script. Though it may be adequate for many of the Indian languages, it’s not adequate for the southern Indian languages-Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam and Tamil. Kannada, Telugu and Malayalam languages have 50 + letters in their alphabet. Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam and Tamil languages have short vowels “e” and “o” and the Tamil also has a letter which sounds like twisted “L”. Itrans lacks representation of these letters and transliteration of these using itrans will not be correct pronunciation. Also usage of “t”s and “d”s in the Itrans scheme can cause some confusion. For example: using small case letter “ t” to pronounce a sound “th” like in English words  theft, think, thermometer etc, can cause mistakes in pronunciation specially for people not familiar  with south Indian languages. A word “thAraka” written in Itrans scheme as “tAraka” may be pronounced with the normal “t” sound like in “tree or teach”. Similarly usage of the small case letter “d” to denote a sound like in “then, there or that” also can cause mistakes in pronunciation. As these Indian languages are transliterated to English, It does not seem appropriate to use in transliteration the English letters “t” and “d” to sound like “th”. It will not make it easier to read. The sounds “t”, “d” and “th” are there in English language as well as in the Indian languages and does it not make sense to use them to sound like they naturally sound? It is more appropriate and sensible to use them in transliteration without distorting their natural sound. In ITRANS the “t” sounds like “th” as in the words “theft, thick, thin” etc and “d” sounds like “th” as in words “then, there” etc. It doesn’t make sense.

There is a need for an improved version of ITRANS which compensates for the deficiencies of ITRANS and ITRANS-2 will do that. Using ITRANS-2 makes it easier to pronounce specially for persons who are unfamiliar with the south Indian languages and Samskrutha(Sanskrit). There will be fewer mistakes in pronunciation with regards to the 3rd and 4th series of consonants: t, T, d, D, and th, TH, dh, Dh. Using the improved version ITRANS-2, all the words we use (in samskrutha and other south Indian languages and also Hindhi) can be written in simple English with least distortion of the pronunciation. Also, ITRANS-2 is simple to write and read, using just small case and large case letters of English with no special characters.

ITRANS-2: All letters will be in small case except for the long vowels and hard consonants. Long vowels and hard consonants will have large case letters. Vowels: a A  i  I  u  U  R (this letter is not in use that much except in words like “Rushi” meaning a sage, “Ruthu”etc)   e  E  ai   o   O   ou   Consonants: k  K    g   G   (I have left out the ~N sound – again this is not much used) ch   Ch    j   J  (have left out the “nya”-not  used) t   T    d    D    N th    Th   dh   Dh   n p    P   b   B  m y    r   l  v  sh  Sh  s  h    L Extra alphabets: "gnya"  to write the word “gnyAna” meaning knowledge and zh  for the Tamil alphabet (which sounds like a twisted “L”)like in  words “azhagu”, mazhaikkaNNa” etc'' Brmanjunath (talk) 15:37, 13 June 2012 (UTC) Brmanjunath (talk) 15:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not the place to try to reform Indic transliteration. While you may firmly believe that ITRANS is inferior for southern Indian languages, it is a well-recognized and documented standard for transliterating Indic languages, and changing ITRANS transliterations on Wikipedia will be reverted. Continued attempts to change from that standard will eventually result in your being blocked. VanIsaacWScontribs 03:14, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Given that the only actions you have taken on Wikipedia are to promote a personal agenda, I have informed administrators to pay attention to your account. VanIsaacWScontribs 04:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Welcome!
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent contributions seem to be advertising or for promotional purposes. Wikipedia does not allow advertising. For more information on this, see: If you still have questions, there is a new contributor's help page, or you can write   below this message along with a question and someone will be along to answer it shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Wikipedia: I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! Shirt58 (talk) 07:47, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
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 * Thank you for the welcome.
 * I am neither advertizing or promoting anything personal. I also do not have any intention of reforming ITRANS. It could be left alone. I am not suggesting that it should be edited. My only intention is to propose a scheme in which all the Indian languages based on Devanagari script and also Tamil could be transliterated adequately into English. As the proposed scheme ITRANS-2 is similar to ITRANS, I did not know how to go about it and needed your guidance.
 * Could it be a new article in wikipedia? I would very much appreciate your responses. Brmanjunath (talk) 16:20, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You say that your only intention is to 'propose a scheme.' Wikipedia is not a place to explore novel ideas that have not yet found acceptance anywhere else. Consider creating your own website to present this material. If your ideas have not yet been published in any WP:Reliable sources they can't find a place here. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 14:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very very much EDJohnston. Your response is self explanatory and it is very nice of you letting me know that. Thank you once again. I have no more questions! Brmanjunath (talk) 16:07, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Lets move on
Brmanjunath, apart from ITRANS, what are you interested in? Indian classical music? Cricket? (I'm a "cricket tragic"!) Talk to us - your fellow Wikipedians are here to help you improve this encyclopedia project. --Shirt58 (talk) 14:13, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed Shirt58, let me move on. Your first assumption is correct. I am interested in Indian classical music and in particular "karnAtak music". I am with you about "Cricket"!

Brmanjunath (talk) 15:55, 19 June 2012 (UTC)